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Lizaleanrob's AvatarLizaleanrobGodlike
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drugs are a particular hate of mine for the misery and crime they produce

and after a conversation with a 40 year old marijuana user trying to help him sort out his problems it became apparent he was unable to laterally think or apply any sort of reasoned logic

as i knew this guy 20 years back he was smart and very level headed now it seems its just everyone else's fault to him

when i pointed out where his problems lie (smoking the dope )he became so defencive of it to the point he was almost shouting

the other thing the struck me was the way he demonised drink which seems to be a typical users way of vindicating what they do

to see the way its fucked up this guys life and his mind really made me think strongly about the classification of drugs

with death rates on the rise in drug related deaths .crime etc i think its time to ban all drugs regardless and classify them all as class A

a bbc link to drug related deaths

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-11094703

tell me what you think

Drugs

27th Aug 2010 - 7:48am
darkest_desires's Avatardarkest_desiresFinding my feet
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Personally - I'd go the other way and completely legalise all drugs.

Prohibition doesn't work, and never has. Criminalising drug users / addicts only compounds the problem - like with your friend, used to be switched on/pro active chap, now the drugs have taken hold but our only response is to criminalise the addicts making them unemployable and pigeon holing them.

I have to wonder if it really achieves anything by giving youngsters criminal records for having cannabis on them, or any other drug for that matter. I believe it should be illegal to supply people under the age of 21 with any drug but after 21 we should be able to make our own choices.

The intention behind the drugs laws are good on paper, ie try to stop people from harming themselves, however it's been shown that it doesn't work. You can't make everything illegal because someone might die from it. Bubble was legal up to this year, kids were using it as a high, so the Government made it illegal. It's still being used, however now a drug called NRG is also coming in to the fore which is currently legal. The government's response will be to make this illegal as well - where does it stop ? Are we going to make climbing trees illegal because kids fall out of them and injure themselves.

I haven't got statistics to hand, but far more illnesses, deaths and violent disorder can be attributed to alcohol - so why is this drug legal but others aren't ? My view is that alcohol has become an accepted drug by society, so it is tolerated but the public's fear on other drugs is largely unsubstantiated, largely due to a lack of knowledge.

The drugs problem will not be solved by the criminal justice system but by the health system in providing support, and the education system by providing er, education.

 

27th Aug 2010 - 7:54am
GnV's AvatarGnVGodlike
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You know Rob, for once I'm struggling finding a suitable response.

Clearly there are substances which should not be freely available and I would agree entirely, those with a less classification and regarded by some as "harmless" clearly do have a devastating effect on peoples lives - your friend a case in point!

But how far to go?

I have never knowingly taken any illegal substance but to overcome a recent skeletal problem I began taking some tablets I was able to get from the pharmacy here without prescription.

I began to become dependant on these tablets, finding that I had to take one earlier and earlier each night. Incredibly, further research showed that these tablets were indeed addictive and I stopped taking them right away but it just goes to show and begs the question "how far do you have to go?"
ForestFunsters's AvatarForestFunstersI need to get out more
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Lizaleanrob wrote:

drugs are a particular hate of mine for the misery and crime they produce

and after a conversation with a 40 year old marijuana user trying to help him sort out his problems it became apparent he was unable to laterally think or apply any sort of reasoned logic

as i knew this guy 20 years back he was smart and very level headed now it seems its just everyone else's fault to him

when i pointed out where his problems lie (smoking the dope )he became so defencive of it to the point he was almost shouting

the other thing the struck me was the way he demonised drink which seems to be a typical users way of vindicating what they do

to see the way its fucked up this guys life and his mind really made me think strongly about the classification of drugs

with death rates on the rise in drug related deaths .crime etc i think its time to ban all drugs regardless and classify them all as class A

a bbc link to drug related deaths

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-11094703

tell me what you think


When you say drugs to be classified as class A, I take it that you don't mean the many opiate based pain-killers that are on the market? These are basically derivatives of opium, morphine, cocaine etc. Why are those ok for you?
I have talked to 100's of people, mainly MS, Crohns, dystrophy patients etc who benefit greatly from medical marijuana, but of course not in this country. More forward-thinking countries have legalized marijuana for medical purposes, and they have very few problems in comparison. There are always pathetic cases that will have problems - people always seem to focus on these, rather than the many that are helped. Some people will get addicted to sniffing sellotape - I don't think we should be basing medical attitudes and available treatments solely because some individuals are intolerant to them.

 

27th Aug 2010 - 9:58am
duncanlondon's AvatarduncanlondonGodlike
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Even with so called 'soft' class z drugs etc it wouldn't be long before deaths and illness were attributed to their use if legalised. their availability would create dependency.

it seems like we can 't live without a variety of medications, aspirin, paracetemol etc.

i'd be stuck if i couldn't get a decent cup of tea!

Imagine getting a 7 year sentence for drinking extra strong breakfast tea?

 

27th Aug 2010 - 10:23am
vampanya's AvatarvampanyaSuper human rambling
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legalising doesn't mean drugs will be any more available. There are many drugs that are legal now that are only available on prescription.

And I would stick my neck out and say that most illegal drugs aren't taken by the stereotypecal junkies that spring to mind when talking drugs, but the Saturday night crowd who want a pill to go clubbing with, or a bag of coke for a good night out. They are IMO the biggest users. They're normal everyday folk the rest of the time but like to party a little harder than most.

 

27th Aug 2010 - 10:32am
darkest_desires's Avatardarkest_desiresFinding my feet
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vampanya wrote:

legalising doesn't mean drugs will be any more available. There are many drugs that are legal now that are only available on prescription.

And I would stick my neck out and say that most illegal drugs aren't taken by the stereotypecal junkies that spring to mind when talking drugs, but the Saturday night crowd who want a pill to go clubbing with, or a bag of coke for a good night out. They are IMO the biggest users. They're normal everyday folk the rest of the time but like to party a little harder than most.


with normal everyday jobs that are put at risk if they're caught with anything on them by getting a criminal record.

I'm all for targetting the hardcore drug dealers and people selling to kids - unfortunately, it's difficult to get them so the low level users and addicts are targetted, in order to get to the men above, one step at a time

 

27th Aug 2010 - 10:49am
vampanya's AvatarvampanyaSuper human rambling
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darkest_desires wrote:

vampanya wrote:

legalising doesn't mean drugs will be any more available. There are many drugs that are legal now that are only available on prescription.

And I would stick my neck out and say that most illegal drugs aren't taken by the stereotypecal junkies that spring to mind when talking drugs, but the Saturday night crowd who want a pill to go clubbing with, or a bag of coke for a good night out. They are IMO the biggest users. They're normal everyday folk the rest of the time but like to party a little harder than most.


with normal everyday jobs that are put at risk if they're caught with anything on them by getting a criminal record.

I'm all for targetting the hardcore drug dealers and people selling to kids - unfortunately, it's difficult to get them so the low level users and addicts are targetted, in order to get to the men above, one step at a time


In most cases yes. It doesn't stop them though, the risks of getting caught are very low. And as you said they have to have it on them.

Its attitudes towards drugs that need changing and from early on too.

Kids grow up being told drugs are bad, dangerous and all the rest of it. When they reach their teens they get a new education. Drugs are fun and not that dangerous if you're careful. It mades everything up to that point seem like scaremongering and lies to keep them on the right path. So they dabble and find yes, they are indeed fun, and safe they believe, those adults dont know what they're talking about.

Now this is far from all kids but I do know this is how it happens in many cases.

We should be honest with them from the start. They shouldn't be led to believe that everyone who touches drugs ends up like Zammo because they'll soon find out thats a lie. They should be put off in a way that overrides what they are told by their friends later on. And told the truth.

In edit: The more pressure on dealers the better. The more they have to lose by getting caught selling, the better.

 

27th Aug 2010 - 11:08am
kentswingers777's Avatarkentswingers777Godlike
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Hmmmmmm a tricky dilema.

As all class A drugs are illegal if we were to make them all legal, would we still have the same ammount of addicts or, in my opinion we would have a lot more.

Drugs will ruin lives whether they are freely available or not...it matters not.

The British Government will never ever legalise the likes of cocaine or heroine.....ever.

But also if you made them available would the drug dealers still target the young, I mean the very young?

I smoke yet the new laws that have been passed recently, and I do not see a difference except pubs closing down. Now they have come up with a crackpot idea of banning shops from having them on open display. Will that really stop people from smoking or taking up the habit? I think not.

I feel that the laws are fine as they are, but I would certainly up the sentences for pushers.

As I said at the start............. a tricky one.

 

27th Aug 2010 - 11:39am
ForestFunsters's AvatarForestFunstersI need to get out more
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I can't find it online, but I remember a statistic from when I did my toxicology degree - more people in the UK have died from choking on breakfast cereal than from cannabis or ecstasy usage.
Time to ban those murderous cornflakes? icon_lol.gif

 

27th Aug 2010 - 11:46am
vampanya's AvatarvampanyaSuper human rambling
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It's not just about the deaths caused by drugs though Forest, breakfast cereals, however murderous, dont cause the misery and suffering or the crime that drugs do.

 

27th Aug 2010 - 11:51am
ForestFunsters's AvatarForestFunstersI need to get out more
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vampanya wrote:

It's not just about the deaths caused by drugs though Forest, breakfast cereals, however murderous, dont cause the misery and suffering or the crime that drugs do.


That's a very fair point, but is the misery caused by the drugs themselves, or their illegality? Countries like the Netherlands which "tolerate" and make freely available the softer drugs, only really have problems with hard drugs and alcohol.

 

27th Aug 2010 - 12:03pm
vampanya's AvatarvampanyaSuper human rambling
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Bit of both I guess. Some drugs cause more physical problems, others more social problems. Catagorising them all the same isn't that useful. They all have different impacts.

Herion addiction for example, is a lot more damaging to society than say prescription sleeping tablets without prescription. And without the prescription they are just as illegal to posess. What good does having them in the same catagory of drugs serve?

 

27th Aug 2010 - 1:39pm
Ben_welshminx's AvatarBen_welshminxGodlike
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I agree with darkest.

 

27th Aug 2010 - 2:58pm
kentswingers777's Avatarkentswingers777Godlike
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vampanya wrote:

It's not just about the deaths caused by drugs though Forest, breakfast cereals, however murderous, dont cause the misery and suffering or the crime that drugs do.



But they do contain too much salt and sugar. icon_lol.gif

 

27th Aug 2010 - 3:08pm
vampanya's AvatarvampanyaSuper human rambling
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Haha! laughabove.giflaughabove.giflaughabove.gif So does cocaine

 

27th Aug 2010 - 3:17pm
kentswingers777's Avatarkentswingers777Godlike
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vampanya wrote:

Haha! laughabove.giflaughabove.giflaughabove.gif So does cocaine



If ya get a dodgy batch it could actually be baking powder............fancy putting that up ya nose. icon_twisted.gif

 

27th Aug 2010 - 4:21pm
foxylady2209's Avatarfoxylady2209Godlike
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Just because something is illegal doesn't make it worse than what is currently legal.

If we go the way of banning everything that is recreational (as opposed to medicinal) and is known to be harmful. The first ones to go would be alcohol and nicotene. Cigarettes especially have no safe minimum and zero health benefits.

I also agree that prohibition doesn't work. And you can't legislate for idiocy. All you can do is bring your own kids up to treat such temptations intelligently.

I feel the best way to tackle it is 2-fold. Social engineering - basically make being drunk, stoned etc etc etc seriously un-cool. And harsh - very very harsh - penalties for getting oneself into that state. The message being - you can take the stuff if you choose, but you WILL be held responsible for it and you WILL pay for it.

 

27th Aug 2010 - 4:25pm
Bluefish2009's AvatarBluefish2009Godlike
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foxylady2209 wrote:

Just because something is illegal doesn't make it worse than what is currently legal.

If we go the way of banning everything that is recreational (as opposed to medicinal) and is known to be harmful. The first ones to go would be alcohol and nicotene. Cigarettes especially have no safe minimum and zero health benefits.

I also agree that prohibition doesn't work. And you can't legislate for idiocy. All you can do is bring your own kids up to treat such temptations intelligently.

I feel the best way to tackle it is 2-fold. Social engineering - basically make being drunk, stoned etc etc etc seriously un-cool. And harsh - very very harsh - penalties for getting oneself into that state. The message being - you can take the stuff if you choose, but you WILL be held responsible for it and you WILL pay for it.


Yes,I agree, surely we can make it socially unacceptable just like we have with drink driving dunno.gif

 

27th Aug 2010 - 5:08pm
vampanya's AvatarvampanyaSuper human rambling
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HUGE job. It would be nice but sadly, with things like binge drinking on the increase it's not likely that it would be made so socially unacceptable any time soon. If anything young people do drugs to be sociable. Where do you start to turn that around?
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