At last ! A policy worth voting for !!

it was for me(among other things, but it was a biggie) back in the day

eh?
lp

I have taken to the streets of London 3 times in years gone by in support of hunting. It is the only 3 times I have been to London. There are so many other country ways of life in the line of fire by the main players behind all this. I fear, if aloud to,. they would destroy so many parts of rural life.

But I do not feel it is a vote winner/looser at this time.

Tomu / Bluefish



Q) Crippled old foxes don't kill so many sheep do they?

A) Actually, they are often the most troublesome, as they are unable to hunt there natural prey, it is far easier to turn to prey which are caged and can not ex-scape.

Ok, I didn't know that, and it's interesting to know.




Q) Yeah, but how long have you been chasing it for by then? Hours?

A) Over an hour would be very rarer indeed, but from as short as a few minuets

Gosh. I didn't realise they would bother getting all the people together, driving up from London and that, if it was only going to last a few minutes. I would have assumed it would last much longer. Just goes to show.




Reeeeeeally? So swiftly? When (as Kaznkev experienced) half of them are driving up from the other end of the country?

Yes, really. it is their job. I can only speak for local hunts to me

OK, and again I was surprised about this. I think we seem to be talking about two completely different sorts of thing. Are there two sorts of hunt, recreational ones and professional ones? Because obviously, the sort of thing I have in my head with a large group of people, maybe fifty or so (and hunt saboteurs hiding in the bushes!) just couldn't be assembled at an hour or two's notice in the middle of the night, on a weekday night like as not; and if it's only going to last a few minutes they wouldn't bother getting out of bed, if it's essentially a recreational sport. Would you mind educating me a little? Does the thing I'm thinking of really exist? What sort of numbers are usually involved? How many of them are actually employed to hunt foxes?




Q) Again, really? Nationally? I'll be intrigued to see the statistics about this.

A) http://www.supportfoxhunting.co.uk/docs/ca_polls_2004.pdf

OK, on this one I can come back to you. The polls you cite are all from May 2004 or earlier, and all predate the current law, introduced in November 2004. To use them to describe public opinion after the ban is inaccurate. They're at best six years old. More recent polls from 2008 and 2009 -

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Polls/poll-foxhunting-ifaw-tables.pdf
http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/poll.aspx?oItemId=152
http://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Polls/public-opinion-on-hunting-2009-data-tables.pdf

- consistently show more than 70% public opinion that fox hunting with dogs should remain illegal (even more for hunting other animals). One of those polls also shows that more than 70% of people believe hunts should not be allowed to break the existing law.

Going back to the polls you cite, the people who put together that document suggest it shows a decline in support for a ban up to 2004; If you read the numbers it shows no such thing. The column opposed to any kind of law looks stable around 20%, and if you were to phrase the topline "Public opinion believes that foxhunting should be controlled by law" (ie include the middle column with the antis, rather than the pros) you'd come out with around 70% - in other words broadly the same number who now oppose a repeal of the law. Lies, damn lies and statistics...




Q) At the top of my first post on this I said it's a matter of right and wrong. I do believe that's basically what it comes down to. For me it's wrong to derive your entertainment from hurting animals. It's a blood sport, and blood sports are wrong.


A) I see the fact that they enjoy hunting as a by product of pest control. I know many who work in other pest control and they enjoy their job also. How much meat do we all eat? Is that not fun at an animals exspence?


The rat man where I work may or may not enjoy his job, but certainly fifty odd people don't show up to help him, for fun, in their spare time. But I've nothing against people enjoying their jobs, I enjoy mine.

Eating meat is of course an important issue, and many people do not believe that it's morally justified either (I'd be willing to be that at least some of the people on this website are of that persuasion!). Myself, I can totally recognise that from the cow's point of view it might seem a bit rude. I don't agree with veal, I eat free range eggs, I think some of the things done in the name of the milk industry are pretty sick to be honest (breeding cows that are in constant pain as their udders are just too big, and will die if they are not milked). I can justify it to myself on the basis that it's nutritionally important (although admittedly not essential), and that it's what I was basically designed to do - I have canine teeth and I can digest meat, in contrast to for example, grass, which I can't. It's certainly a grey area though, and for me it's a matter of extent.

For me there's a world of difference between eating a healthy, balanced diet and participating in a bloodsport.



Aaaah, so... this directly contradicts what you said above. So - it is for fun, not because it's their job, because nobody could afford to employ that many people; and I would be stunned if hundreds of foot-followers, and however many horses, could turn up at a couple of hours notice in the middle of the night;



Well, I can almost buy the pest-control thing. But at the end of the day, when it actually comes down to people enjoying killing tormenting and animals, I think it's inhumane.

Right, this is massively too long now. Sorry all. I wish I had put this much effort into the environment thread...

T

blue this is one of my big bug bears,fortonatly because of where we live the local kids have a very good idea of where there food comes from,my own two regually see the young bullocks in the field at the end of the street for fattening,

But i know this is not the case for the majority,especially those with idiotic parents like the one you described.Some schools have actually twinned with inner city school in the Birmingham area,and bring the children out to see farms etc.In return the village kids get to visit mosques/temples/street markets and so on.

It seems incredible to me that children have never seen a cow or sheep,a field of potatoes or a wheat field,but it is apparently the case, i think this excellent scheme should be repeated across the country ,we have children who know more about foreign countries than we do area 20 miles away

A really interesting thread - I am always surprised when I learn things on here. And I don't say that in a sarcastic manner, I genuinely mean it!

We are quite lucky here also Kaz, but as you say, so many are not so lucky. Even here though it is not quite as I feel it should be. On more than one occation our younger ones have had friends round for an evening meal, while dishing up the veg some have said "Oh no salad for me please" Well at least they were polite

Concrete the country side and buy all our food from over seas

I think you will find that in many mining villagers in the north there was little support for thatcher,its not all commuters and 4 x 4s .

And on a more baic level do 2 wrongs make a right?

The guy is just satisfying his own twisted PR Blue.

I would never ever read the book, from a man who is a compulsive liar and a fraud.

Speaking of liars and fraudsters...hows that Lord Prezzie doing?

He was thinking about writing a book.. then he got all upset when someone suggested he should call it "The A - Z of being a Bar Steward" cos he thought they were calling him names...

I haven't read the Bliar book but on Sky News this morning James Whale referred to one bit where Prince Charles apparently asked him if Prescott always sits with his legs akimbo and if he slides down far enough in his seat, would one be able to safely rest a cup of tea on one's ample belly.