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foxylady2209Godlike

Joined:: 6 Jan 2005
Posts:: 4069
Location:: Derby

Freckledbird wrote:

(snipped for size only)

My dad has a Fiesta which he struggles to get into/out of sometimes - you see some 'disabled' drivers in bloody sporty little cars; I think there should be a limited range of cars that motability money can be used for. Maybe that's now the case though?

GNV, I like your idea of siting disabled bays near to where modified trolleys are parked. That would perhaps stop people abusing the spaces. After all, if they're in a wheelchair or have walking aids, isn't that to make them (almost) as mobile as able-bodied people?

FB you make some very pertinent points.

But I would just comment that while using a wheelchair (unpowered) or walking aids does improve mobility enormously, pushing along in a wheelchair is pretty exhausting for a fit person. A disabled people may not be only leg-limited so to speak. My best mate has a serious spinal condition that means he can get about slowly on sticks but must use a wheelchair for anything outside the house. His condition limits his upper body strength as well as making walking extremely hard. He is fiercely independent, but that is only possible with a huge effort from him and help where he needs it.

And why limit the types of car disabled people can have? Can't they have a bit of joy in their lives? Of course they have to get a vehicle suitable - to take a wheelchair if necessaary - but within that, why not something a bit sprtier than a Reliant Robin?

An old friend of mine has heart disease, he is flexible enough to get in and out of his fairly sporty car. His joints aren't affected, but he can't walk far without getting breathless. Breathless isn't just like me running a bit and breathing hard, it's an 'about to black out or have a heart attacl' kind of breathless. He uses the disabled bays, or able bays so long as they are fairly close to the doors. That isn't always possible, so the disabled bays are a godsend. He still has to shop in short bursts and plan his shopping trips carefully around his medication and 'better times'.

All I would ask is that people don't judge disability purely on the visual level. We have to rely on the blue-badge scheme - for all it's failings. It's all we have.

__random_orbit__Godlike

Joined:: 13 Dec 2005
Posts:: 8097
Location:: das capital

well said FoxyLady

I may return to this thread also.
I am niether disabled, nor a driver.
But I support people who require the use of a car to enable them to be involved in thier daily lives as independantly and as safely as posible.

Supporting a person to get a tube of toothpaste can be an immensely time consuming, but immeasurably empowering experience.
There is more to disability than meets the eye. (or whichever method of perception/understanding/communication is available to you)
lp

awaymanGodlike

Joined:: 24 Sep 2003
Posts:: 1125
Location:: northumberland

kentswingers777 wrote:

awayman wrote:

kentswingers777 wrote:

awayman wrote:

kentswingers777 wrote:

I always wondered this too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252452/Revealed-Why-disabled-bays-stay-empty.html

At our local shopping centre we can drive around for ages looking for a space, only to go past scores of disabled bays laying empty.

I am all for there being spaces but do we really need as many as there are?

It seems there is a silly law saying they have to have ex ammount of spaces but...it seems to me to far outweigh the people who actually use them.

So next time you are fighting for a space, check the disabled bays and see if this is a valid arguement.

There is an answer. Make able bodied people get the bus.

By the way, if there are scores of disabled bays empty at your local shopping centre, that means it has 1000 parking spaces overall. That's quite large.

It's a typical Daily Mail diatribe playing on the sense of grievance; mums who drive to the shops feel they should have more priority so they've got more room for their Chelsea tractors and their pushchairs. I think it's safe to say there are bigger issues in the world.

Of course there are but it was something I felt was worth talking about.

How do YOU come to the conclusion that there are 1000 parking spaces? Based purely on my comment of " scores "?

Why should able bodied people be forced to catch a bus, when they pay large sums of money to be able to drive?

I feel that parents with young children should possibly be given more spaces too, just like at supermarkets where they realise how difficult it is for families with young children....or would you let them get the bus as well?

" Daily Mail diatribe " eh? That is just so funny!

If you have nothing constructive to say on the subject, why say anything at all?

Why say anything? You started it. You thought a cretinous article trying to create a grievance out of nothing in the Daily Mail was worth reposting here.

As to the calculation of 1000 spaces, yes, I took your claim that there were scores of empty spaces, and did some number crunching. A score is twenty. You do know that don't you? So scores (plural) would imply at least two scores, or 40. Since the article you quoted referred to planning guidance requiring 4% disabled spaces in larger car parks, that gives you a figure of approximately 1000 spaces for it to be possible that there were scores of empty parking spaces.

Of course, it's possible that you were exaggerating, or making it up for effect. I couldn't possibly comment.

Why make people catch the bus? Well, because it's a complex argument, transport policy, and owning and using a car is not an entitlement or a right. The debate over transport policy and land use policy is more complicated than the Daily Mail would ever understand. I think the debate around family spaces in supermarket car parks is more complex than 'some people think they should have priority in supermarket carparks because of their lifestyle choices.'

How odd is it to start a thread and complain when people join in?

Sounds like something children would say...." you started it "..." Oh no I did not, you did "....ner ner.FGS.

Not trying to create a grievance out of anything, and yes I feel it is ok to report that in here. Because you do not think it is, who the heck are you? Site owner? Run the AUP?

Instead of baying everyone at every opportunity, what about starting a thread...all of your own?

Is there now only certain things me or anyone else for that matter, can put on this forum? Do I have to answer to you at all?

Your a member just like me, and IF you do not like a subject, or feel it is not worthy of posting on here, then a suggestion is needed...............move on to something that interests you.

There are plenty of subjects that do not, interest me, and they I do not post in....may I suggest you do the same.

I will await a thread from you, with total excitement. Am sure the whole of SH will be only too eager to post in it.

I am baffled and perplexed. If you start a debate, by posting a contentious article form the Daily Heil, you shouldn't be surprised if those of us who think the Daily Heil is beneath contempt have something to say. Especially when your contribution amounts to saying that planning guidelines are 'silly laws' as if development control is like making up the rules for the Eton Wall Game.

You don't have to answer to me, or anyone. But this is unstructured discourse; you don't control what follows from your starting a debate. There are lots of threads I ignore. I thought this one worth commenting on.

I can tell from your somewhat messy grammar that you're not up to your normal form in this post, but I think it's fair to point out that I wasn't accusing you of trying to start a grievance; I was talking about the Daily Heil, the newspaper for people who think everything's wrong with the world, that their glass is half empty because immigrants have been pinching their drinks.

You want me to start a thread of my own? Rest assured, I will. It probably won't involve a quote from the Daily Heil.

KaznkevGodlike

Joined:: 17 Sep 2009
Posts:: 7494
Location:: Kneeling

__random_orbit__ wrote:

well said FoxyLady

I may return to this thread also.
I am niether disabled, nor a driver.
But I support people who require the use of a car to enable them to be involved in thier daily lives as independantly and as safely as posible.

Supporting a person to get a tube of toothpaste can be an immensely time consuming, but immeasurably empowering experience.
There is more to disability than meets the eye. (or whichever method of perception/understanding/communication is available to you)
lp

Thank you random,I am sure that when people see my mother leaving my parents car they no doubt mutter about able bodied people using spaces,contant pain, poor balance,little sensory awareness and blindness in one eye are not immediatly visable.

GnVGodlike

Joined:: 13 Dec 2005
Posts:: 5787
Location:: embrasser la
grenouille

kentswingers777 wrote:

duncanlondon wrote:

despite the respect for the disabled the nearness of the bays to the shops provides a useful function. If they weren't there most shoppers would park as near as they could and inevitably there would be a consistent traffic jam around the main entrance.

Having an area that avoids congestion creates a safer area around the main entrance and distributes the traffic in an orderly way into the parking lot.

people seem to go to great efforts to get as near as possible to the entrance. what is the panic? is there some fear that they will get dive bombed by shitehawks and lose all their shopping?

No Duncan it is called...being a bunch of lazy fuckers!

As you rightly say, at my local shopping centre people drive up and down looking for a space as close to the entrance as possible. All because they do not want to walk the 200 yards to the entrance yet, when they get in there they walk for miles browsing at the shops. Madness.....funy how the silly human mind works.

If the doors were big enough, I'm sure some of them would consider driving in..

PlimboySuper human rambling

Joined:: 1 Nov 2009
Posts:: 675
Location:: rather not say

Whenever anything to do with cars and our rights in respect of cars comes up, people's blood often boils.

I would make some points:

There was comment under reference to a Ford Fiesta about disabled cars being in the smaller classes and limitations being imposed on the size of "Motability" cars:

Firstly there have been some very skilled and brave disabled drivers in motorsport (I would drop the names of Archie Scott-Brown and Joy Rainey) and some disabled people are as capable of handling upper market models as able bodied people. Secondly, the Motabilty car scheme is not financed by the Taxpayer as such as it is merely the free choice of the use of the EXISTING Disabilty living Allowance getting around portion with any excess charges for better models having to be paid for by the disabled person from other means. Also, some severely disabled people require People Carriers or Transit type window vans with a hoist to lift them in (albeit in those cases that a family member is often the authorised driver).

Turning now to the point about disabled people being locked up in institutions, that of course is what we used to do with them in Victorian times - although contary to popular rumor, I wasn't around to witness it!

Plim

duncanlondonGodlike

Joined:: 11 Jan 2005
Posts:: 3425
Location:: north london

most people are locked up these days...........its called the internet

FreckledbirdGodlike

Joined:: 3 Jun 2004
Posts:: 17701
Location:: -

Foxy and Kaz, I apologise if you found those points offensive.
I know that not all disabilities are immediately visible; my dad looks like most older blokes of his age - hence he feels like a fraud when he's having a better day.

My point about the sportier cars was in relation to ease of access - I can't imagine most disabled people being able to use them. And I've seen 'disabled' people get out of them (only person in vehicle) and run/trot to wherever they are going. Foxy, point taken though about having a bit of joy in their lives. Plim, I spoke to my dad about it and yes, his mobility money could go toward a different car if he was able to 'top up' the payment.

Mr-PowersGodlike

Joined:: 7 Aug 2004
Posts:: 6936
Location:: London

I don't think it the amount of disabled bays that's the problem, but i wonder how many wives,husbands,sons or daughters have used a disability badge to get a decent parking space when the disabled person isn't even with them.

kentswingers777Godlike

Joined:: 14 Dec 2005
Posts:: 8462
Location:: -

awayman wrote:

kentswingers777 wrote:

awayman wrote:

kentswingers777 wrote:

awayman wrote:

kentswingers777 wrote:

I always wondered this too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252452/Revealed-Why-disabled-bays-stay-empty.html

At our local shopping centre we can drive around for ages looking for a space, only to go past scores of disabled bays laying empty.

I am all for there being spaces but do we really need as many as there are?

It seems there is a silly law saying they have to have ex ammount of spaces but...it seems to me to far outweigh the people who actually use them.

So next time you are fighting for a space, check the disabled bays and see if this is a valid arguement.

There is an answer. Make able bodied people get the bus.

By the way, if there are scores of disabled bays empty at your local shopping centre, that means it has 1000 parking spaces overall. That's quite large.

It's a typical Daily Mail diatribe playing on the sense of grievance; mums who drive to the shops feel they should have more priority so they've got more room for their Chelsea tractors and their pushchairs. I think it's safe to say there are bigger issues in the world.

Of course there are but it was something I felt was worth talking about.

How do YOU come to the conclusion that there are 1000 parking spaces? Based purely on my comment of " scores "?

Why should able bodied people be forced to catch a bus, when they pay large sums of money to be able to drive?

I feel that parents with young children should possibly be given more spaces too, just like at supermarkets where they realise how difficult it is for families with young children....or would you let them get the bus as well?

" Daily Mail diatribe " eh? That is just so funny!

If you have nothing constructive to say on the subject, why say anything at all?

Why say anything? You started it. You thought a cretinous article trying to create a grievance out of nothing in the Daily Mail was worth reposting here.

As to the calculation of 1000 spaces, yes, I took your claim that there were scores of empty spaces, and did some number crunching. A score is twenty. You do know that don't you? So scores (plural) would imply at least two scores, or 40. Since the article you quoted referred to planning guidance requiring 4% disabled spaces in larger car parks, that gives you a figure of approximately 1000 spaces for it to be possible that there were scores of empty parking spaces.

Of course, it's possible that you were exaggerating, or making it up for effect. I couldn't possibly comment.

Why make people catch the bus? Well, because it's a complex argument, transport policy, and owning and using a car is not an entitlement or a right. The debate over transport policy and land use policy is more complicated than the Daily Mail would ever understand. I think the debate around family spaces in supermarket car parks is more complex than 'some people think they should have priority in supermarket carparks because of their lifestyle choices.'

How odd is it to start a thread and complain when people join in?

Sounds like something children would say...." you started it "..." Oh no I did not, you did "....ner ner.FGS.

Not trying to create a grievance out of anything, and yes I feel it is ok to report that in here. Because you do not think it is, who the heck are you? Site owner? Run the AUP?

Instead of baying everyone at every opportunity, what about starting a thread...all of your own?

Is there now only certain things me or anyone else for that matter, can put on this forum? Do I have to answer to you at all?

Your a member just like me, and IF you do not like a subject, or feel it is not worthy of posting on here, then a suggestion is needed...............move on to something that interests you.

There are plenty of subjects that do not, interest me, and they I do not post in....may I suggest you do the same.

I will await a thread from you, with total excitement. Am sure the whole of SH will be only too eager to post in it.

I am baffled and perplexed. If you start a debate, by posting a contentious article form the Daily Heil, you shouldn't be surprised if those of us who think the Daily Heil is beneath contempt have something to say. Especially when your contribution amounts to saying that planning guidelines are 'silly laws' as if development control is like making up the rules for the Eton Wall Game.

You don't have to answer to me, or anyone. But this is unstructured discourse; you don't control what follows from your starting a debate. There are lots of threads I ignore. I thought this one worth commenting on.

I can tell from your somewhat messy grammar that you're not up to your normal form in this post, but I think it's fair to point out that I wasn't accusing you of trying to start a grievance; I was talking about the Daily Heil, the newspaper for people who think everything's wrong with the world, that their glass is half empty because immigrants have been pinching their drinks.

You want me to start a thread of my own? Rest assured, I will. It probably won't involve a quote from the Daily Heil.

Please not the Economist or that other tripe the Guardian.

Think of something constructive....informative.....fun.

But hey it will be your choice.

My this internet thingy can be such fun.

Is the Grammar above ok for you this time?

Would hate to give you something else to moan about eh?

kentswingers777Godlike

Joined:: 14 Dec 2005
Posts:: 8462
Location:: -

Mr-Powers wrote:

I don't think it the amount of disabled bays that's the problem, but i wonder how many wives,husbands,sons or daughters have used a disability badge to get a decent parking space when the disabled person isn't even with them.

Hello Powers...you been away or locked up?

Seriously your above comment I bet it happens all the time.

The trouble is in a shopping car park or a supermarket, there never seems anyone around to enforce it anyway.

duncanlondonGodlike

Joined:: 11 Jan 2005
Posts:: 3425
Location:: north london

There's a lot of people playing that fake disabled parking thing. they steal signs from public places and attach them outside their houses, even when they don't have an official disabled bay.

they also steal blue signs from disabled drivers cars. these are counterfeited and sold on.

KaznkevGodlike

Joined:: 17 Sep 2009
Posts:: 7494
Location:: Kneeling

Freckledbird wrote:

Foxy and Kaz, I apologise if you found those points offensive.
I know that not all disabilities are immediately visible; my dad looks like most older blokes of his age - hence he feels like a fraud when he's having a better day.

My point about the sportier cars was in relation to ease of access - I can't imagine most disabled people being able to use them. And I've seen 'disabled' people get out of them (only person in vehicle) and run/trot to wherever they are going. Foxy, point taken though about having a bit of joy in their lives. Plim, I spoke to my dad about it and yes, his mobility money could go toward a different car if he was able to 'top up' the payment.

freckle no offense intended , non taken,

i just thought random expressed things so well he deserved a

Staggerlee_BBGodlike

Joined:: 14 Jun 2007
Posts:: 2648
Location:: Cahoots

duncanlondon wrote:

There's a lot of people playing that fake disabled parking thing. they steal signs from public places and attach them outside their houses, even when they don't have an official disabled bay.

they also steal blue signs from disabled drivers cars. these are counterfeited and sold on.

I stole a blue sign once.....apparently John Wesley once lived here

soulgirlI need to get out more

Joined:: 13 Dec 2005
Posts:: 221
Location:: -

You know the biggest problem with offering disabled parking spaces is you have to have a blue badge registered to one car only. Seeing as I dont drive I get lifts to supermarkets with friends and I have a disabled son who comes along with me. We can never park in the Parents & Toddlers parking as there is never any spaces so my friend has to drop us off at the entrance then go find a parking space, why cos the spaces in the normal park areas arent wide enough to open the door to get my son out of the car, this was even a problem with my able bodied child when she needed help getting out of the car. Then once we have finished our shopping we have to wait for my friend to go put her shopping in her car then come collect me from the entrance to load up my shopping and get my son in.

However shouldnt we really be having a go at all those people who park their cars in the pick up area and you see 20 minutes later their car is still there and they are still busy shopping.

LostGodlike

Joined:: 4 Feb 2006
Posts:: 5646
Location:: -

soul-girl wrote:

You know the biggest problem with offering disabled parking spaces is you have to have a blue badge registered to one car only. Seeing as I dont drive I get lifts to supermarkets with friends and I have a disabled son who comes along with me. We can never park in the Parents & Toddlers parking as there is never any spaces so my friend has to drop us off at the entrance then go find a parking space, why cos the spaces in the normal park areas arent wide enough to open the door to get my son out of the car, this was even a problem with my able bodied child when she needed help getting out of the car. Then once we have finished our shopping we have to wait for my friend to go put her shopping in her car then come collect me from the entrance to load up my shopping and get my son in.

However shouldnt we really be having a go at all those people who park their cars in the pick up area and you see 20 minutes later their car is still there and they are still busy shopping.

Ermmm soulg Your wrong on this. A blue badge is given to the person with the disibility not the driver - As long as the person with the disibility has that card with them any car they are in and the purpose of the journey involves them* has a right to display the badge and use it accordingly. One of the reasons that thy're not fixed to the vehicle.

If your son has the right to a blue crad then bloody well get it and use it that's what its for mate your friend just needs to pop it on top of the dashboard and use an appropriate space. No brownie points for not using them.

*ref Direct/gov quote ....If you have a badge, it must only be used for your benefit. If a trip is for someone else and you are a passenger and staying in the car, you cannot use the badge to let them benefit from free parking.

SteveGodlike

Joined:: 30 Oct 2006
Posts:: 6702
Location:: On a downward spiral

Plimboy wrote:

snip

Firstly there have been some very skilled and brave disabled drivers in motorsport (I would drop the names of Archie Scott-Brown and Joy Rainey) snip

Nothing to do wit the thread really but what the hell....

Joy is a friend of mine (she has thousands of friends as she is such a lovely woman) and I have actually been a passenger in her very old Alfa racing car

Boy she can drive.....

soulgirlI need to get out more

Joined:: 13 Dec 2005
Posts:: 221
Location:: -

oooooo excellent lost, will phone them up now to get the forms, thanks for that xxxxx

kentswingers777Godlike

Joined:: 14 Dec 2005
Posts:: 8462
Location:: -

soul-girl wrote:

oooooo excellent lost, will phone them up now to get the forms, thanks for that xxxxx

Well it seems Soul that even though some would think this thread was a useless piece of Daily Hell rubbish, it has been useful to you.

Which goes to show that sometimes rubbish can be a useful tool.

Good luck with the forms.

PlimboySuper human rambling

Joined:: 1 Nov 2009
Posts:: 675
Location:: rather not say

Steve wrote:

Plimboy wrote:

snip

Firstly there have been some very skilled and brave disabled drivers in motorsport (I would drop the names of Archie Scott-Brown and Joy Rainey) snip

Nothing to do wit the thread really but what the hell....

Joy is a friend of mine (she has thousands of friends as she is such a lovely woman) and I have actually been a passenger in her very old Alfa racing car

Boy she can drive.....

Oh great! I knew Joy moderately well in the late 80s and early 90s through sprinting (for non-motorsport readers, one car on a tramac track at a time against the clock) and I have a copy of her excellent book "Fast Lady" ISBN 1 84425 038 5 which I can throroughly recommend.

Plim

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