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2nd Mar 2010 - 10:04pm
awayman's AvatarawaymanGodlike
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swcpl2005 wrote:

Staggerlee_BB wrote:

Perhaps an increase in taxes on motorists would be a good idea to raise more funds for road repairs.


Yes, good idea, after all that £50 billion pound annual tax take from motorists is obviously not nearly enough. Why not milk the cow for cash even more?

Or then again, local and central government could actually ensure that roads are laid properly in the first place and that any subsequent repairs by contractors following trenching/digging operations are properly done to a recognised standard with the contractor 100% liable if a pot hole subsequently appears.

But that would never happen, not when the tax payer is there with an open wallet or purse.


So, you're a poor downtrodden taxpayer. Do you think council employees get their pay tax free for doing no work?

You do know that many unclassified roads haven't been properly rebuilt since they were laid between world war one and two don't you? You do know that greedy farmers who grub our hedges and fill in ditches have screwed up the drainage on many unclassified roads don't you? You do know that unplanned for levels of parking on urban roads make it impossible to do gully clearance, meaning drains block and roads flood more frequently don't you? That's when they're not being flooded by block paved driveways that channel rainwater straight onto roads....

Oh, and that most of our roads were engineered when the maximum weight of an HGV was half of what it is today....

Apologies for the rant, but spare us the downtrodden taxpayer bit, as if you're some kind of a minority.

 

2nd Mar 2010 - 10:09pm
kentswingers777's Avatarkentswingers777Godlike
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awayman wrote:

swcpl2005 wrote:

Staggerlee_BB wrote:

Perhaps an increase in taxes on motorists would be a good idea to raise more funds for road repairs.


Yes, good idea, after all that £50 billion pound annual tax take from motorists is obviously not nearly enough. Why not milk the cow for cash even more?

Or then again, local and central government could actually ensure that roads are laid properly in the first place and that any subsequent repairs by contractors following trenching/digging operations are properly done to a recognised standard with the contractor 100% liable if a pot hole subsequently appears.

But that would never happen, not when the tax payer is there with an open wallet or purse.


So, you're a poor downtrodden taxpayer. Do you think council employees get their pay tax free for doing no work?

You do know that many unclassified roads haven't been properly rebuilt since they were laid between world war one and two don't you? You do know that greedy farmers who grub our hedges and fill in ditches have screwed up the drainage on many unclassified roads don't you? You do know that unplanned for levels of parking on urban roads make it impossible to do gully clearance, meaning drains block and roads flood more frequently don't you? That's when they're not being flooded by block paved driveways that channel rainwater straight onto roads....

Oh, and that most of our roads were engineered when the maximum weight of an HGV was half of what it is today....

Apologies for the rant, but spare us the downtrodden taxpayer bit, as if you're some kind of a minority.


Can you supply proper links for all that?

You obviously work for the council, do not drive a car, want cycle lanes so you can cycle to work, hate the Daily Mail, and have knowledge of everything including the inside workings of a hedgehog. icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif

I wish I had you as a teacher when I was younger....I would be PM by now. icon_wink.gif

 

2nd Mar 2010 - 10:10pm
marriedmale's AvatarmarriedmaleI need to get out more
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298
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sometimes there.....
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duncanlondon wrote:

Its always the same, blame the council, blame the weather.

What about blaming the thicko drivers for continuing to drive on the road and making the potholes worse. Who else is doing it?

They could find a better route. don't tell me every square footage of tarmac is potholed.

And who started the potholes in the first place? Effing 4x4 drivers no doubt.

Anyway we need new landfill sites to get rid of our rubbish. So a few potholes with festering garbage won't be a problem.


Oh dear, oh dear .......
I really hope that these were meant 'tongue in cheek' !

 

2nd Mar 2010 - 10:13pm
awayman's AvatarawaymanGodlike
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northumberland
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kentswingers777 wrote:

awayman wrote:

swcpl2005 wrote:

Staggerlee_BB wrote:

Perhaps an increase in taxes on motorists would be a good idea to raise more funds for road repairs.


Yes, good idea, after all that £50 billion pound annual tax take from motorists is obviously not nearly enough. Why not milk the cow for cash even more?

Or then again, local and central government could actually ensure that roads are laid properly in the first place and that any subsequent repairs by contractors following trenching/digging operations are properly done to a recognised standard with the contractor 100% liable if a pot hole subsequently appears.

But that would never happen, not when the tax payer is there with an open wallet or purse.


So, you're a poor downtrodden taxpayer. Do you think council employees get their pay tax free for doing no work?

You do know that many unclassified roads haven't been properly rebuilt since they were laid between world war one and two don't you? You do know that greedy farmers who grub our hedges and fill in ditches have screwed up the drainage on many unclassified roads don't you? You do know that unplanned for levels of parking on urban roads make it impossible to do gully clearance, meaning drains block and roads flood more frequently don't you? That's when they're not being flooded by block paved driveways that channel rainwater straight onto roads....

Oh, and that most of our roads were engineered when the maximum weight of an HGV was half of what it is today....

Apologies for the rant, but spare us the downtrodden taxpayer bit, as if you're some kind of a minority.


Can you supply proper links for all that?

You obviously work for the council, do not drive a car, want cycle lanes so you can cycle to work, hate the Daily Mail, and have knowledge of everything including the inside workings of a hedgehog. icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif

I wish I had you as a teacher when I was younger....I would be PM by now. icon_wink.gif


Supply links? Like you do? I can't be bothered tonight. Ask any highways engineer though. Take a bike along my favourite roads, over places like Otterburn, and you can see the causes of the damage.

Cycle to work? Not me mate. Work from home and use the car when I have to.

I know nothing about hedgehogs, except that if handled wrongly then, like the BNP they involve a lot of pricks.

Lord knows what you might have been if you'd had a teacher when you were younger - would tolerance have been too much to hope for?

 

2nd Mar 2010 - 10:16pm
kentswingers777's Avatarkentswingers777Godlike
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Tolerance is a word that is used far too often nowadays...it is a bit like trust...it has to be earned and is not a right.

Obviously you are a bit tired tonight to find those links, maybe there are not any.

Do council workers work from home now then? icon_wink.gif

Goodnight from him...and goodnight from him too. icon_lol.gif

 

2nd Mar 2010 - 10:44pm
duncanlondon's AvatarduncanlondonGodlike
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More whinging going on as usual. I mean what does it cost to throw in a bag or two of rapid setting post concrete. A few quid and your road is sorted. I suppose if it had gravel on it you'd think it was a driveway.

For gods sake, you'll all be demanding climate control next. Put that on the agenda in your next council tax meeting.

 

2nd Mar 2010 - 10:45pm
kentswingers777's Avatarkentswingers777Godlike
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laughabove.giflaughabove.giflaughabove.gif

 

2nd Mar 2010 - 11:43pm
thelondoncouple's AvatarthelondoncoupleYou looking at me?
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London
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[quote="kentswingers777"]Corrie...as you can see from my profile pics, I have a big expensive powerful motorbike that does not go at the min,lol that just loves a pot hole........not.

quote]

i was just saying yesterday glad we in the car and not bike, holes everywhere.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 6:47am
awayman's AvatarawaymanGodlike
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1125
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northumberland
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kentswingers777 wrote:

Tolerance is a word that is used far too often nowadays...it is a bit like trust...it has to be earned and is not a right.

Obviously you are a bit tired tonight to find those links, maybe there are not any.

Do council workers work from home now then? icon_wink.gif

Goodnight from him...and goodnight from him too. icon_lol.gif


Dunno Kenty - ask your local council - it saves lots of money so lots of them do it...

Potholes and weather?

http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=97399

http://www.torfaen.gov.uk/CouncilAndDemocracy/CouncilNews/2010/January/15-FreezingWeatherCausesPotholes.aspx

http://www.thisissussex.co.uk/eastgrinstead/news/Cold-weather-causes-pothole-chaos/article-1761040-detail/article.html

http://www.localgovernmentexecutive.co.uk/news/weather-causes-potholes-appear-roads-20106606

Blocked ditches?
http://www.devon.gov.uk/drainageleaflet.pdf N.B that it's the landowner who has to clear them, not the council

Fill yer boots...

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 7:39am
Max777's AvatarMax777Godlike
Joined:
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1635
Location:
Oop North
ProfilePM
[quote="awayman"]
swcpl2005 wrote:

Staggerlee_BB wrote:

Perhaps an increase in taxes on motorists would be a good idea to raise more funds for road repairs.


Yes, good idea, after all that £50 billion pound annual tax take from motorists is obviously not nearly enough. Why not milk the cow for cash even more?

Or then again, local and central government could actually ensure that roads are laid properly in the first place and that any subsequent repairs by contractors following trenching/digging operations are properly done to a recognised standard with the contractor 100% liable if a pot hole subsequently appears.

But that would never happen, not when the tax payer is there with an open wallet or purse.


So, you're a poor downtrodden taxpayer. Do you think council employees get their pay tax free for doing no work?

Tax free? No. For doing no work......undoubtedly yes in some instances

You do know that many unclassified roads haven't been properly rebuilt since they were laid between world war one and two don't you? You do know that greedy farmers who grub our hedges and fill in ditches have screwed up the drainage on many unclassified roads don't you? You do know that unplanned for levels of parking on urban roads make it impossible to do gully clearance, meaning drains block and roads flood more frequently don't you? That's when they're not being flooded by block paved driveways that channel rainwater straight onto roads....

Oh, and that most of our roads were engineered when the maximum weight of an HGV was half of what it is today....

swcpl2005 are correct about the roads being laid correctly in the first place. I travel on the "new" dual carriageway that runs behind Shiremoor on a daily basis. This road is less than 2 years old and is already falling apart........and as far as I'm aware it's not prone to flooding and is not heavily used ( if at all) by HGVs

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 9:04am
Too Hot's AvatarToo HotSuper human rambling
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Good thread but surprising that no one has actually mentioned the reason for the massive increase in potholes over the last few weeks.
Water gets into cracks in the road surface and when it freezes it expands and makes the crack bigger, vehicles pass over and erode away the crack to become a hole and the cycle continues.
Can't believe anyone really supports the underfunding of local councils to ensure that the roads are repaired to an acceptable standard. As for blaming 4x4's, good grief what else can we blame the 4x4 for? Envy is such a raw emotion.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 9:30am
duncanlondon's AvatarduncanlondonGodlike
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A standard car has 2 wheels which are driven, from which comes the necessary torque to erode the roads and create potholes. a 4x4 has four driven wheels thus creating twice as much erosion. And I expect every 4x4 driver had all wheels engaged, that's the whole point of having such a vehicle.

people are envious of power and its potential but not if its used incorrectly, unwisely or wastefully.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 9:59am
kentswingers777's Avatarkentswingers777Godlike
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awayman wrote:

kentswingers777 wrote:

Tolerance is a word that is used far too often nowadays...it is a bit like trust...it has to be earned and is not a right.

Obviously you are a bit tired tonight to find those links, maybe there are not any.

Do council workers work from home now then? icon_wink.gif

Goodnight from him...and goodnight from him too. icon_lol.gif


Dunno Kenty - ask your local council - it saves lots of money so lots of them do it...

Potholes and weather?

http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=97399

http://www.torfaen.gov.uk/CouncilAndDemocracy/CouncilNews/2010/January/15-FreezingWeatherCausesPotholes.aspx

http://www.thisissussex.co.uk/eastgrinstead/news/Cold-weather-causes-pothole-chaos/article-1761040-detail/article.html

http://www.localgovernmentexecutive.co.uk/news/weather-causes-potholes-appear-roads-20106606

Blocked ditches?
http://www.devon.gov.uk/drainageleaflet.pdf N.B that it's the landowner who has to clear them, not the council

Fill yer boots...


Blimey.....I bet you was up half the night looking for that lot.

Well done....get yourself a gold star from teacher. icon_wink.gif

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 10:01am
kentswingers777's Avatarkentswingers777Godlike
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Too Hot wrote:

Good thread but surprising that no one has actually mentioned the reason for the massive increase in potholes over the last few weeks.
Water gets into cracks in the road surface and when it freezes it expands and makes the crack bigger, vehicles pass over and erode away the crack to become a hole and the cycle continues.
Can't believe anyone really supports the underfunding of local councils to ensure that the roads are repaired to an acceptable standard. As for blaming 4x4's, good grief what else can we blame the 4x4 for? Envy is such a raw emotion.


I have to deal with that all the time...... icon_lol.gif

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 10:10am
tomu's AvatartomuI need to get out more
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Jesus. Look, it was abnormally cold, the ice cracked up a load of roads, that was only a couple of months ago though and I daresay the councils will get round to repairing it soon enough.

If they get the money. Things cost money; they weren't expecting to have to spend the money so they won't have had it saved up. If you want the council to have been able to have a load of money saved up against freak occurrences they weren't expecting... I presume you'd be happy to pay a higher rate of council tax then? No, thought not. There's no sense complaining about taxes on one hand, and then complaining about the lack of tax spending on the other. Which do you want? Potholes, or no potholes?

I'd be willing to bet that when the budgets get replenished next month you'll see a flurry of road repairs getting done. Until then, it's a bugger, but basically, drive more carefully and put up with it.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 10:12am
Kaznkev's AvatarKaznkevGodlike
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thumbup.gif
tomu wrote:

Jesus. Look, it was abnormally cold, the ice cracked up a load of roads, that was only a couple of months ago though and I daresay the councils will get round to repairing it soon enough.

If they get the money. Things cost money; they weren't expecting to have to spend the money so they won't have had it saved up. If you want the council to have been able to have a load of money saved up against freak occurrences they weren't expecting... I presume you'd be happy to pay a higher rate of council tax then? No, thought not. There's no sense complaining about taxes on one hand, and then complaining about the lack of tax spending on the other. Which do you want? Potholes, or no potholes?

I'd be willing to bet that when the budgets get replenished next month you'll see a flurry of road repairs getting done. Until then, it's a bugger, but basically, drive more carefully and put up with it.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 10:18am
kentswingers777's Avatarkentswingers777Godlike
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tomu wrote:

Jesus. Look, it was abnormally cold, the ice cracked up a load of roads, that was only a couple of months ago though and I daresay the councils will get round to repairing it soon enough.

If they get the money. Things cost money; they weren't expecting to have to spend the money so they won't have had it saved up. If you want the council to have been able to have a load of money saved up against freak occurrences they weren't expecting... I presume you'd be happy to pay a higher rate of council tax then? No, thought not. There's no sense complaining about taxes on one hand, and then complaining about the lack of tax spending on the other. Which do you want? Potholes, or no potholes?

I'd be willing to bet that when the budgets get replenished next month you'll see a flurry of road repairs getting done. Until then, it's a bugger, but basically, drive more carefully and put up with it.


That is all well and good BUT..........where has my money gone btw £218 I spent two days ago on a years road tax for my car?

£218 that as far as I can see goes nowhere near where it should do.

It was always supposed to go towards repairing the roads, and as there are more cars on the roads now than ever before, we should have perfect roads.....no?

I cannot believe that I had to pay that kind of money, and then leave this morning and see cracked roads and potholes everywhere on my way to work.

So where does all our money go? Because it is not going on the roads, that's for sure.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 10:28am
tomu's AvatartomuI need to get out more
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kentswingers777 wrote:

tomu wrote:

Jesus. Look, it was abnormally cold, the ice cracked up a load of roads, that was only a couple of months ago though and I daresay the councils will get round to repairing it soon enough.

If they get the money. Things cost money; they weren't expecting to have to spend the money so they won't have had it saved up. If you want the council to have been able to have a load of money saved up against freak occurrences they weren't expecting... I presume you'd be happy to pay a higher rate of council tax then? No, thought not. There's no sense complaining about taxes on one hand, and then complaining about the lack of tax spending on the other. Which do you want? Potholes, or no potholes?

I'd be willing to bet that when the budgets get replenished next month you'll see a flurry of road repairs getting done. Until then, it's a bugger, but basically, drive more carefully and put up with it.


That is all well and good BUT..........where has my money gone btw £218 I spent two days ago on a years road tax for my car?

£218 that as far as I can see goes nowhere near where it should do.

It was always supposed to go towards repairing the roads, and as there are more cars on the roads now than ever before, we should have perfect roads.....no?

I cannot believe that I had to pay that kind of money, and then leave this morning and see cracked roads and potholes everywhere on my way to work.

So where does all our money go? Because it is not going on the roads, that's for sure.


Well, given that I don't work in your council's road's department, and I have no detailed knowledge of how how much money is gathered and spent or what things cost, I'd say... what I said above: when they prepared their budgets last year, they weren't expecting this to happen, so they didn't put the money aside for it. Because all councils and governments are under pressure to only tax what they really need, and most (all?) of them are running deficits, it's simply not going to be possible for them to bank up massive contingency funds against freak occurrences.

This WAS a freak occurrence and it happened towards the end of the tax year. So they will have already spent the money last year.

The roads departments in all the councils will doubtless be asking for an increase in next year's budget to pay for this (remember last year's budget was spent on the normal things, normal levels of road maintenance, equipment maintenance, grit etc). Depending whether the councils grant it, when the new budgets are allocated in April you will probably see the work start.

But basically: all the things you want your council to do cost money. This was an unexpected event they hadn't budgeted for. They did not have the money sitting around to pay for it, because they already spent it on all the other things you want them to do.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 10:32am
Too Hot's AvatarToo HotSuper human rambling
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tomu wrote:

kentswingers777 wrote:

tomu wrote:

Jesus. Look, it was abnormally cold, the ice cracked up a load of roads, that was only a couple of months ago though and I daresay the councils will get round to repairing it soon enough.

If they get the money. Things cost money; they weren't expecting to have to spend the money so they won't have had it saved up. If you want the council to have been able to have a load of money saved up against freak occurrences they weren't expecting... I presume you'd be happy to pay a higher rate of council tax then? No, thought not. There's no sense complaining about taxes on one hand, and then complaining about the lack of tax spending on the other. Which do you want? Potholes, or no potholes?

I'd be willing to bet that when the budgets get replenished next month you'll see a flurry of road repairs getting done. Until then, it's a bugger, but basically, drive more carefully and put up with it.


That is all well and good BUT..........where has my money gone btw £218 I spent two days ago on a years road tax for my car?

£218 that as far as I can see goes nowhere near where it should do.

It was always supposed to go towards repairing the roads, and as there are more cars on the roads now than ever before, we should have perfect roads.....no?

I cannot believe that I had to pay that kind of money, and then leave this morning and see cracked roads and potholes everywhere on my way to work.

So where does all our money go? Because it is not going on the roads, that's for sure.


Well, given that I don't work in your council's road's department, and I have no detailed knowledge of how how much money is gathered and spent or what things cost, I'd say... what I said above: when they prepared their budgets last year, they weren't expecting this to happen, so they didn't put the money aside for it. Because all councils and governments are under pressure to only tax what they really need, and most (all?) of them are running deficits, it's simply not going to be possible for them to bank up massive contingency funds against freak occurrences.

This WAS a freak occurrence and it happened towards the end of the tax year. So they will have already spent the money last year.

The roads departments in all the councils will doubtless be asking for an increase in next year's budget to pay for this (remember last year's budget was spent on the normal things, normal levels of road maintenance, equipment maintenance, grit etc). Depending whether the councils grant it, when the new budgets are allocated in April you will probably see the work start.

But basically: all the things you want your council to do cost money. This was an unexpected event they hadn't budgeted for. They did not have the money sitting around to pay for it, because they already spent it on all the other things you want them to do.


You are missing the point. The council don't collect car tax - the government do. The money is not (and never has for that matter) being spent where it should be - on the roads.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 10:34am
tomu's AvatartomuI need to get out more
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kentswingers777 wrote:

Tolerance is a word that is used far too often nowadays...it is a bit like trust...it has to be earned and is not a right.


Incidentally, off topic, but I really disagree with this.

Trust, and respect, and perhaps to some extent loyalty... those are things that have to be earned. But tolerance, fairness, the benefit of the doubt, basic human decency are attitudes that all, well, decent human beings should display towards others at all times. I'm not religious myself, but I agree with turning the other cheek and treating others as you would wish to be treated yourself.

Actually, about respect... I think we should start from a position of respect towards everyone, but it can certainly be dis-earned...
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