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3rd Mar 2010 - 10:44am
tomu's AvatartomuI need to get out more
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Too Hot wrote:

tomu wrote:

kentswingers777 wrote:

tomu wrote:

[blah] If you want the council to have been able to have a load of money saved up against freak occurrences they weren't expecting... I presume you'd be happy to pay a higher rate of council tax then? No, thought not. There's no sense complaining about taxes on one hand, and then complaining about the lack of tax spending on the other. Which do you want? Potholes, or no potholes?[blah]


That is all well and good BUT..........where has my money gone btw £218 I spent two days ago on a years road tax for my car?[blah]
[blah] Because all councils and governments are under pressure to only tax what they really need, and most (all?) of them are running deficits, it's simply not going to be possible for them to bank up massive contingency funds against freak occurrences.

This WAS a freak occurrence and it happened towards the end of the tax year. So they will have already spent the money last year.

The roads departments in all the councils will doubtless be asking for an increase in next year's budget to pay for this (remember last year's budget was spent on the normal things, normal levels of road maintenance, equipment maintenance, grit etc). Depending whether the councils grant it, when the new budgets are allocated in April you will probably see the work start.

But basically: all the things you want your council to do cost money. This was an unexpected event they hadn't budgeted for. They did not have the money sitting around to pay for it, because they already spent it on all the other things you want them to do.


You are missing the point. The council don't collect car tax - the government do. The money is not (and never has for that matter) being spent where it should be - on the roads.


No, I'm not. Ok, whoever collects car tax and whoever pays for the maintenance of the roads, the point is the same: it was a freak occurrence, they didn't have the money saved up to pay for it because they haven't got the money spare to save up huge piles of spare money in case freak occurrences occur.

If you want your government, local or national, to have the money sitting around to instantly respond to any unexpected and costly event that might happen, then you will have to pay much more in tax.

I don't know how I can make this any clearer. If you travel to work on a bicycle, and you get paid every month on the 1st, and you have to spend all your money on food and rent, as well as the occasional inner tube... and sometime around the 24th of the month your bicycle spontaneously transforms itself into an onion... you probably don't have the cash sitting by to buy a new bike. So what are you going to do for the next few days? Walk to work until you save up for a new bike, that's what.

Kenty, if you paid your road tax yesterday, that's very nice for you, but that money does not immediately go into the pot for pothole fixing. Budgets are allocated in April.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 10:50am
jdwxxx's AvatarjdwxxxI need to get out more
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DVLA road tax and fuel duty both end up in the coffers of the Exchequer, along with income tax and corporation tax. Council parking fees, along with the Congestion Charge if you live in London, are paid to the Local Authority, and are topped up by council tax and a subsidy from central government.

As can be seen, it is therefore very difficult to detail exactly how your road tax is spent, because it is divvied up in the same way as any other tax. However, there are certain related expenditures that we certainly rely on road tax and fuel tax to pay for.

For example, your parking fees might well help pay for extended car park facilities, while your resident's parking permit is probably contributing to road resurfacing or a similar project. As has been mentioned, though, council income is topped up by central government – so,ultimately, you are also paying for these projects and services through your council tax and income tax.


^^^^^^^

http://www.thetaxguide.co.uk/what-does-road-tax-pay-for.html





tasty copy pasta

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 11:36am
Max777's AvatarMax777Godlike
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tomu wrote:

Too Hot wrote:

tomu wrote:

kentswingers777 wrote:

tomu wrote:

[blah] If you want the council to have been able to have a load of money saved up against freak occurrences they weren't expecting... I presume you'd be happy to pay a higher rate of council tax then? No, thought not. There's no sense complaining about taxes on one hand, and then complaining about the lack of tax spending on the other. Which do you want? Potholes, or no potholes?[blah]


That is all well and good BUT..........where has my money gone btw £218 I spent two days ago on a years road tax for my car?[blah]
[blah] Because all councils and governments are under pressure to only tax what they really need, and most (all?) of them are running deficits, it's simply not going to be possible for them to bank up massive contingency funds against freak occurrences.

This WAS a freak occurrence and it happened towards the end of the tax year. So they will have already spent the money last year.

The roads departments in all the councils will doubtless be asking for an increase in next year's budget to pay for this (remember last year's budget was spent on the normal things, normal levels of road maintenance, equipment maintenance, grit etc). Depending whether the councils grant it, when the new budgets are allocated in April you will probably see the work start.

But basically: all the things you want your council to do cost money. This was an unexpected event they hadn't budgeted for. They did not have the money sitting around to pay for it, because they already spent it on all the other things you want them to do.


You are missing the point. The council don't collect car tax - the government do. The money is not (and never has for that matter) being spent where it should be - on the roads.


No, I'm not. Ok, whoever collects car tax and whoever pays for the maintenance of the roads, the point is the same: it was a freak occurrence, they didn't have the money saved up to pay for it because they haven't got the money spare to save up huge piles of spare money in case freak occurrences occur.

If you want your government, local or national, to have the money sitting around to instantly respond to any unexpected and costly event that might happen, then you will have to pay much more in tax.

I don't know how I can make this any clearer. If you travel to work on a bicycle, and you get paid every month on the 1st, and you have to spend all your money on food and rent, as well as the occasional inner tube... and sometime around the 24th of the month your bicycle spontaneously transforms itself into an onion... you probably don't have the cash sitting by to buy a new bike. So what are you going to do for the next few days? Walk to work until you save up for a new bike, that's what.

Kenty, if you paid your road tax yesterday, that's very nice for you, but that money does not immediately go into the pot for pothole fixing. Budgets are allocated in April.


No one is expecting government, councils whatever to have money sitting around, except in Icelandic banks of course! If more of the taxes collected from motorists was actually spent on maintaining the roads in a proper fashion, instead of the "bodges" that usually pass as maintenance, then the roads would not be in such a state as they are. Many of the current potholes have been caused by previous repair jobs "popping out".

It would be interesting to see the condition of roads in Norway, Sweden, Germany etc to see if the cold weather has the same impact there.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 12:21pm
kentswingers777's Avatarkentswingers777Godlike
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Most councils did not have even enough salt fgs.

So they then had to spend nearly four times the ammount of money on salt....supply and demand.

I am sick and tired of excuse after excuse from councils or Governments. The money IS there, every month millions and millions of pounds is racked in in car tax duty. Money that was always intended for the roads. Then on top of that we have fuel duty as well. The money raised by the motorist runs into billions of pounds every year, and your telling us that do not have any money sitting around? Seems like they had a few billion for their mates who run the banks eh?

I have been driving for over 30 years and have seen bad weather like this, in fact much worse than this yet have never ever known the roads so bad. Some may say it is becasue there are too many cars on the road now, I would answer and say well even more money then in the coffers.

A lot of the money that councils used to spend on roads, is now being forced on them by either national Government or new European legislation, on other things that they deem more important than our roads.

Like having to pay millions of pounds extra dealing with more people using our local services!!

Sorry you can make excuses all day long....where does all the road tax go...how much do they raise per year and why are they now bleating on about freak weather, it ain't the trains ya know!

People wonder why others who live abroad laugh at the way we deal with things, or not in this case. Can you imagine living in a country that gets a lot of bad weather and then seeing how we have struggled over the last month or so, with a bit of snow ffs?

Going out on a motorcycle this year wioll be taking ones life in their hands, because if you hit a pot hole on a bike you are off, and injury if not death itself will await.

£ 218 for nowt is the way I see it!!

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 12:55pm
GnV's AvatarGnVGodlike
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Isn't it going to worse in UK PLC next year?

As I hear it from France, local authorities - who have a responsibility to maintain roads other than the trunk routes, have been told to cap their Council Tax rises this year to assist Labour in the subterfuge in the election that Labour are doing more for the electorate...

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 2:23pm
duncanlondon's AvatarduncanlondonGodlike
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I think I would blame the Borough Engineer, probably for implementing a feeble maintenance programme. Someone who is no doubt 'educated' up to the eyeballs with every qualification in the world; but who probably hasn't even built a sandcastle.

And the manufacturers of the piss poor quality materials.

the Romans didn't have these problems with their roads. Why can't we put a decent road down anymore?

I mean for god's sake. we survived bomb craters in the blitz, what's a few piss hole potholes?

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 4:05pm
corrie2010's Avatarcorrie2010I need to get out more
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rotflmao.gif rotflmao.gifrotflmao.gifrotflmao.gifrotflmao.gifrotflmao.gifrotflmao.gif

Well I will wait for 2 months and see if the roads are filled within the new budget year. I am happy to be half full not half empty. But it is the materials used and te patching up that worroes me longer term. Short term fixes always end up being very expensive options.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 4:13pm
easyrider_xxx's Avatareasyrider_xxxBoy, can I type!
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duncanlondon wrote:

I think I would blame the Borough Engineer, probably for implementing a feeble maintenance programme. Someone who is no doubt 'educated' up to the eyeballs with every qualification in the world; but who probably hasn't even built a sandcastle.

And the manufacturers of the piss poor quality materials.

the Romans didn't have these problems with their roads. Why can't we put a decent road down anymore?

I mean for god's sake. we survived bomb craters in the blitz, what's a few piss hole potholes?


The main reason was that the Romans didn't have to engineer their roads for 38 tonne trucks - I had a chat with a road engineer a while back, he told me that when they build or re-surface a road, they ignore cars completely and only consider HGV traffic, as car traffic is negligible in terms of road wear - i.e. with no trucks, the roads would pretty much last forever.

The unusually cold and icy weather we have had had, has created a number of new potholes due to frost shattering, but I agree with other posters about the condition of the roads in general.

I also agree with the points raised about car tax, fuel duty and shoddy materials/workmanship

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 5:12pm
foxylady2209's Avatarfoxylady2209Godlike
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I don't understand why some councils put a join of tar around repairs and others don't.

I lived near the boundary between 2 counties. One did the tar-dribble thing and the other didn't. The differenece in how long the repairs lasted before they started to break up at the edges was huge.

There must be plenty of experience/knowledge in the road-fixing world that makes it clear that the cost of tar and time is far outweighed by the impovement in the quality of the repair.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 8:36pm
awayman's AvatarawaymanGodlike
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kentswingers777 wrote:

awayman wrote:

kentswingers777 wrote:

Tolerance is a word that is used far too often nowadays...it is a bit like trust...it has to be earned and is not a right.

Obviously you are a bit tired tonight to find those links, maybe there are not any.

Do council workers work from home now then? icon_wink.gif

Goodnight from him...and goodnight from him too. icon_lol.gif


Dunno Kenty - ask your local council - it saves lots of money so lots of them do it...

Potholes and weather?

http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=97399

http://www.torfaen.gov.uk/CouncilAndDemocracy/CouncilNews/2010/January/15-FreezingWeatherCausesPotholes.aspx

http://www.thisissussex.co.uk/eastgrinstead/news/Cold-weather-causes-pothole-chaos/article-1761040-detail/article.html

http://www.localgovernmentexecutive.co.uk/news/weather-causes-potholes-appear-roads-20106606

Blocked ditches?
http://www.devon.gov.uk/drainageleaflet.pdf N.B that it's the landowner who has to clear them, not the council

Fill yer boots...


Blimey.....I bet you was up half the night looking for that lot.

Well done....get yourself a gold star from teacher. icon_wink.gif


Less than two minutes - hope your lips didn't get tired reading them.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 9:25pm
corrie2010's Avatarcorrie2010I need to get out more
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God its like a game of tennis reading you lot and the jibes lol

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 10:11pm
kentswingers777's Avatarkentswingers777Godlike
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awayman wrote:

kentswingers777 wrote:

awayman wrote:

kentswingers777 wrote:

Tolerance is a word that is used far too often nowadays...it is a bit like trust...it has to be earned and is not a right.

Obviously you are a bit tired tonight to find those links, maybe there are not any.

Do council workers work from home now then? icon_wink.gif

Goodnight from him...and goodnight from him too. icon_lol.gif


Dunno Kenty - ask your local council - it saves lots of money so lots of them do it...

Potholes and weather?

http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=97399

http://www.torfaen.gov.uk/CouncilAndDemocracy/CouncilNews/2010/January/15-FreezingWeatherCausesPotholes.aspx

http://www.thisissussex.co.uk/eastgrinstead/news/Cold-weather-causes-pothole-chaos/article-1761040-detail/article.html

http://www.localgovernmentexecutive.co.uk/news/weather-causes-potholes-appear-roads-20106606

Blocked ditches?
http://www.devon.gov.uk/drainageleaflet.pdf N.B that it's the landowner who has to clear them, not the council

Fill yer boots...


Blimey.....I bet you was up half the night looking for that lot.

Well done....get yourself a gold star from teacher. icon_wink.gif


Less than two minutes - hope your lips didn't get tired reading them.


Two minutes icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif

Give yourself a chocolate biscuit.

 

3rd Mar 2010 - 10:35pm
easy's AvatareasySite Moderator
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corrie2010 wrote:

God its like a game of tennis reading you lot and the jibes lol



I agree, so can you guys debate your points without the snipes please? Be they good-humoured or thinly-veiled.


Ty. icon_wink.gif

meals off wheels

5th Mar 2010 - 10:28am
gulsonroad30664's Avatargulsonroad30664Super human rambling
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i think local councils and national quangos will be given hobsons choice. education and medical care or pothole repair.
a larger percentage of your council/road fund/fuel/income tax is going to the banks than did before, so there will be less to spend on the roads, hospitals, schools, welfare benefits, education, social services and meals on wheels.
i'm off to cervinia in the morning so i will check out what the roads are like at 2000 metres and report back to you all. wish i could get a grant for this survey because it will be important for the community.
just might check out the skiing while i'm there.

 

7th Mar 2010 - 9:20pm
samson63's Avatarsamson63Super human rambling
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Potholes are n't as bad here as our Russian comrades have to deal with, and they just seem to get on with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3-r22od-zI
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