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Bluefish2009

Over 90 days ago

Straight Male, 59

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Straight Female, 49

UK

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11 Feb 2013

Quote by anais
Here`s a little scenario....
You and your children are starving to death, you've seen thousands of people die around you from malnutrition and then some bloke toting an AK47 comes along and tells you that there are people not so far away who are throwing away food because they have some namby pamby idea about not eating horses.
How would you feel towards the next lot of well fed charity workers that turned up in their nice new 4x4 ?

I have eaten horse knowingly,it is good and I have no problem with eating it. It seams more of us than we thought have done so unknowingly.
The only problem I see is the fact people have been miss-lead by labeling. Solve this problem, go to your local butcher
Your right I reckon, it is more about the choice being taken away from us and properly labeled food than anything else. I think if I had an opportunity to try it knowingly, I would (the meat looks lovely and lean - used to watch the tigers been fed when I lived on the local Zoo's breeding estate years ago, the guy who had it on his lorry offered me a leg lol

lol

). I've eaten kangaroo, emu, croc etc...because I was okay about trying it. My choice. If I had to kill it, cook it, eat it....another matter all together (anyone ever watch that programme?).
Yes have watched the program, and enjoy watching people squirm on it :lol: The thing is for me, much of the food I eat has been killed and prepared by my own hand. It is a wonderful feeling and you know where it came from and its life was a good one
So many people have lost touch and forgotten that the meat was once an animal at all

11 Feb 2013

At last people are beginning to see sense, just what I have said for years :thumbup:
RSPCA spokeswoman Klare Kennett said she was aware that some people leave sausages and other treats for foxes in their back gardens as they would for a pet. "The problem is that people are feeding them," she said. "They're putting food out for them in their back gardens - then one thing leads to another, and they're surprised when they go inside their homes."
The attack last Wednesday, which was reported to police after the baby's mother discovered her child screaming in its bedroom with its hand in the animal's mouth, prompted the London Mayor, Boris Johnson, to call on borough leaders to take action, labelling urban foxes "a pest and a menace".
Richard Moseley, from the British Pest Control Association, told the BBC: "What we are finding is that as people feed foxes and encourage foxes to come closer to their properties... they are becoming tamer and people do have to remember that at the end of the day they are still wild animals."
Tim Stevens, the councillor at neighbouring Bromley Council responsible for public protection and safety, said that foxes have been problematic in the area for several years.

10 Feb 2013

Quote by GnV
I'd be interested in star's response too... Especially in regard to this bit...
"Why was the Act drafted this way? The answer is simple. It was not designed to improve animal welfare, but to create technical offences to get at a certain type of person, while all along fooling the public that some good would be done. I sat through every stage of the hunting bill, as it then was, and the ignorance of many anti-hunting MPs was astounding, but their prejudices were obvious."
Couldn't have put it better myself.

This is what make me so cross, Mr Barrington hits the nail on the head, fare and square. It had nothing to do with animal welfare, and much to do with prejudices, and the only thing to suffer because of this is the fox, bloody madness. They have done nothing for fox welfare and they know it, but have fooled many of the population into thinking they have

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

So he is only unbiased when you want him to be I guess :lol: I think you will find he has been fare and honest in this article also, just he is not singing the tune you like

Quote by starlightcouple
Not at all Blue. There was pieces in his first article I posted that I did not agree with, yet still posted the article. In that article he put forward a well balanced view of both sides, yet the second link you posted was exactly as Trev stated.

Quote by Bluefish2009
I don't agree, it is 100% accurate

Is this true or not Blue?

Quote by Trev
However I wouldn't call it unbiased seeing as it comes from an animal welfare consultant for the Countryside Alliance and Council of Hunting Associations.

I see what he has written as fare and unbiased, please feel free to point out anything you believe is not
Has fox welfare been improved since the ban, the answer is plainly no
Please point out to me the animal welfare gain from the current hunting ban

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

So he is only unbiased when you want him to be I guess :lol: I think you will find he has been fare and honest in this article also, just he is not singing the tune you like

Not at all Blue. There was pieces in his first article I posted that I did not agree with, yet still posted the article. In that article he put forward a well balanced view of both sides, yet the second link you posted was exactly as Trev stated.
I don't agree, it is 100% accurate

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
Star
As I know your a fan of James Barrington's unbiassed articles, I was hopping for your honest and unbiased opinion on this article of his

Actually Blue, Trev kinda summed it up so much better than I could have. I liked his article that I posted earlier, but to be honest Blue had very little time for the link you posted above mate to be perfectly honest.

Quote by Trev
However I wouldn't call it unbiased seeing as it comes from an animal welfare consultant for the Countryside Alliance and Council of Hunting Associations.
He makes a perfectly valid point that long term animal welfare is nothing to do with the Hunting Act, animal welfare has its own Act and is a separate matter entirely under the law. The Hunting Act deals with hunting and I definitely support his call that the Hunting Act is not sufficient, and that it need to go further and ban hunting or be repealed completely.

So he is only unbiased when you want him to be I guess lol

lol

:lol: I think you will find he has been fare and honest in this article also, just he is not singing the tune you like
He is also ex LACS, his remit is and always has been animal welfare

10 Feb 2013

Quote by Trevaunance
Who's questioning the validity of the film sequence? Not me. I think that the film perfectly catches the result of putting a dead piglet somewhere that foxes are known to look for food.

Cute side step, or are you truly ignorant of the point the sequence was making.
Not at all. I think the film does exactly what it sets out to prove. That if you leave a 'baby' out in the garden at night there is a high chance that some harm might come to it.

Quote by Trevaunance
Where did I say I'm doing any woodland or wildlife management? You've clearly got yourself confused there.

Quote by Rosie_and_Jim
Correct, my apologies. It was Bluefish's comment. All of the cutting and quoting can get misleading. But the fact that it isn't you doing the woodland management explains your lack of knowledge on the subject.

Sorry? Are we talking about woodland management or a video that was shot in an urban back garden? My knowledge of woodland management is restricted to be fair, but I do know about back gardens lol

lol

Bloody peeping toms :lol: :lol: :lol:

10 Feb 2013

Quote by foxylady2209
I eat rabbit, and enjoy it. I would also happily see cats eradicated

What would fox taste like?
Sweet with a hint of salty or so I'm told. :giggle:
Will we require a horse and hounds to hunt down this delicacy wink

wink

lol

10 Feb 2013

Quote by Trevaunance
Star
As I know your a fan of James Barrington's unbiassed articles, I was hopping for your honest and unbiased opinion on this article of his

That was an interesting article. It was so good I can see why you posted it twice lol

lol

However I wouldn't call it unbiased seeing as it comes from an animal welfare consultant for the Countryside Alliance and Council of Hunting Associations.
He makes a perfectly valid point that long term animal welfare is nothing to do with the Hunting Act, animal welfare has its own Act and is a separate matter entirely under the law. The Hunting Act deals with hunting and I definitely support his call that the Hunting Act is not sufficient, and that it need to go further and ban hunting or be repealed completely.
Star will know why I said unbiased, see some where in the urban fox thread
I have always had a massive regard for J/B opinion on animal welfare, he almost always makes very good sense
I have also said on here, ban completely or repeal

10 Feb 2013

Star
As I know your a fan of James Barrington's unbiassed articles, I was hopping for your honest and unbiased opinion on this article of his wink

wink

10 Feb 2013

Quote by Trevaunance
I for one am a fox lover and have done far more for foxes than most who shout a lot and most often do little

What have you done for foxes Blue?
Living in the countryside for my youth and spending much of my spare time in the countryside I do a lot. Many weekends are spent maintaining several areas of woodland which is fox habitat, even providing them with a free lunch from time to time though out the year, one they have to hunt for them selves
Fattening them up for people to kill later were you lol

lol

Well you put a smile on my face Trev :lol:

10 Feb 2013

This lady had been eating pork I suspect lol

lol

I am not sure if these cases are becoming more regular or just more publicised

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

Helped the local hunt. Well that's helping the countryside, is it not? Some mad kinda logic there.
I do not wish to see this thread turned into another fox hunting debate, as you seam obsesed by it. But you are correct, as I firmly believe hunting with hounds to be the very finnest fox managment tool, this is why I support it

10 Feb 2013

Quote by Trevaunance

Living in the countryside for my youth and spending much of my spare time in the countryside I do a lot. Many weekends are spent maintaining several areas of woodland which is fox habitat, even providing them with a free lunch from time to time though out the year, one they have to hunt for them selves

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
If you want to see foxes doing well, get out into the countryside with your binoculars and see them in their natural habitat.

According to my very nice local Environmental Health officer who lives out in the countryside, he stated he does not see any foxes there now, they have all moved into the City areas, as much easier to find food.
I can not vouch for your local officer, but believe he could be wrong, only about 13% of the British fox population lives in urban areas. People rarely see foxes in the countryside, whereas urban foxes are much less wary of people. Since foxes are seen more often in cities, this gives the impression that there are more urban than rural foxes.

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

By feeding them you are helping to turn them into something they were never meant to be, it is cruel in my eyes. Purely selfish on your part as you like to see them, you satisfy a self promotion but do nothing for the fox in the long run, only take natural ability's away from them

They are city foxes and are used to finding food from all kinds of places, all I am doing is making it a tad easier. I think their natural ability has already been taken away from them by the humans inability to dispose of their food waste properly.

Quote by Bluefish2009
You may see your self as a fox lover but you do them no favours in the long run, you are fooling your self

Why is that? What is the long run for foxes in inner cities then Blue? Invariably forced from their habitat by builders creating yet more housing. They have to live somewhere and they have to find food from somewhere, as mans incessant desire to build houses has meant the fox has little choice in what they do and how they do it. Blame anyone Blue, then blame councils and Governments for continuing to reduce wild animals natural habitats. I am helping currently a nice couple of foxes who have I would presume mated to have nice little fox cubs.
I do not belive you are helping foxes at all, only encouraging what is unatural, it is in my view for your own satisfaction that you do this and not to benafit the fox. If you want to see foxes doing well, get out into the countryside with your binoculars and see them in their natural habitat.

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
We've had foxes pass through our garden for at least the last 20 years - the kid's rabbit hutch resembled Fort Knox, but other people in our street have lost rabbits from hutches. I never worried whether a fox would attack one of the kids though, any foxes that appeared in daylight did one very sharpish when they saw a human.
Why worry about an urban fox attacking your baby when you've got a barely tamed descendant of a wolf living in the house with it. Your dog is more lilely to kill the baby than a fox. How much will be spent on a knee jerk reaction that won't work while the more realistic danger is curled up on the kid's bed?

You should read this forum a bit more often Northwest. The fox haters are alive and well on this forum, and had it been a dog ( and it usually is ) that had bitten a child we would not have heard a whimper from anyone on here.....that's a certainty.
If it were a dog I would advocate it put down and the owner dealt with by the law
I for one am a fox lover and have done far more for foxes than most who shout a lot and most often do little

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

Maybe we could start with fines for people who feed them .....

And how would you propose to catch these people? I would be very interested to know. I feed them in my garden, I see no problem with doing this, and unless you can show me a law that states what I am doing is illegal, I shall continue to do it. They are such wonderful animals, so much better than those other creatures..... the horse.
By feeding them you are helping to turn them into something they were never meant to be, it is cruel in my eyes. Purely selfish on your part as you like to see them, you satisfy a self promotion but do nothing for the fox in the long run, only take natural ability's away from them
You may see your self as a fox lover but you do them no favours in the long run, you are fooling your self

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

James Barrington always is fare, honest and balanced in his articles Star, you should read more of his articles

That is why I posted the link Blue. There are arguments for and against as it should be if you are truly unbiased.
This is the important part for those who wish to do all they can to prevent such a tragic event,
The fox is handsome animal and inviting wildlife into a back garden is a delight for many people. However, some treat the fox like an extended pet and this is where the problems start. For others, the fox is a pest and should be got rid of any way possible
The answer lies between the two views. We should not try to take away its wildness – to do otherwise is to remove that very thing to which we are attracted. The fox is a wild predator and it will act as such if cornered or matter how cuddly it may appear.
In other words, stop feed them in your garden wink

wink

10 Feb 2013

Quote by GnV
If I was starving to death and drinking contaminated water I`m sure that the slight possibility that food had a bit of Bute in it would be furthest from my mind.

:thumbup:
:thumbup:

10 Feb 2013

Here you go Star, more from your friend James Barrington, yet again, a fare and balanced article

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
A brilliant well balance unbiased view.

James Barrington always is fare, honest and balanced in his articles Star, you should read more of his articles

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
Why then Blue do you only post negative things about the RSPCA? I have never seen you post a single positive thing, and yet there are dozens of stories on the web that states the great work they do. Why do you never post one of those Blue?
Your latest link is laughable in the extreme and I notice you did not comment on that so called dog that is a wolf. Funny that. Have a look around Blue and post a great success story of the RSPCA and it's work. Then I will know that you are not biased in any way, or harbour hidden agendas.
I shall await you non biased view.

I have said before I do not hate the RSPCA, I think you will find I have already said I support the export of live animals campaign
What would be the point in posting a positive story? Where would a debate go if everybody here agreed with me? pointless
I have no hidden agenda, my agenda is here for all to read, and in case you missed it, I believe them to be wrong on there stance on hunting, hope this helps you star wink

wink

In fact star, until there change of stance on hunting I used to financially support the RSPCA

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

Mind them little pinkys Star

They are wild animals and as such need to be treated with caution.

Quote by Bluefish2009
But of coarse what may be a joke to you is very serious for one family

I never said this story was a joke Blue, I said it was a tragic case if you look at what I wrote.
It is certainly no more serious than the thousands of children every year who get bitten by those wonderful little things, called the family dog. A couple of fox attacks a year and Boris Johnson and the rest call for action, and thousands and thousands of dog attacks every year and they call for dog chipping. loon

loon

Nutters.
There are a lot of terrifying domestic dogs out there and people do or say very little, and yet the fox with a reported dozen attacks in the last five years hits the headlines. rolleyes

rolleyes

One sided biased bile.
I have read all you have wrote :wink:
I have not said I support Boris or any urban fox control
The fact that people are attacked by family pets does not make this case or any other less relavent to the familys in my view

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

Of all the people on here I would never have guessed this one sided biased view would have been from you Blue. banghead

banghead

Oh and the video of the German Shepherds that the RSPCA ' apparentl ' killed with a stun gun for no reason whatsoever, have a proper look at the so called dog laying on the ground. That is no dog that is a wolf. I really hate one sided links like that Blue without a shred of evidence that any of those cases highlighted were factual.
Reading this link shows a total hatred of the RSPCA and all of it's practices. Tell me Blue seeing as you posted the link, do you believe everything you read, and is everything perfect?
I treat stories here like I treat all stories I read, I read them and make an informed judgment on each, Just as you have done
I read the good stories, and I read the bad storie and make my own mind up
Since when did a storie have to be factual in any meadia based area

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
Blue I have had dogs ( all chipped ) and currently have two cats ( both chipped ). I always had a dog license when they were around, and then the Government stopped that as people were just not bothering and it was costing more money to have the licenses than it was getting in in money.
Like with most laws Blue you do not need to worry about the law abiding people out there, only the people who stick two fingers up to the law. Those people do not care about a law to tag their dogs as the punishment if caught is in most cases laughable and not really enforceable. This is just another example of a Minister trying to do something that lacks any clout at all.
Sorry go to go for a while as I have a couple of foxes to feed at the bottom of my garden.

Mind them little pinkys Star wink

wink

But of coarse what may be a joke to you is very serious for one family

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
I'm sure well get the "official" view from star sometime soon flower with a thread full of links as to every reason why it wasn't - indeed couldn't have one of those nice cuddly little basil brush characters that are so deserving of protection from the RSPCA :grin:

You are a cad GnV. lol

lol

Anyway back to the issue. A fox entered the home of a human and bit a child causing it to lose on of it's fingers. Sure a tragic case and one where I would ask what was a back door doing open with a young child in the house. But that being a side issue, how many fox attacks have there been in the UK in say the last 5 years GnV? Seeing as you seem to be the spokesperson for the Countryside allianceon here, have you any idea as to how many attacks? How many deaths perhaps?
A lot of the time GnV you talk a lot of common sense and I rather admire you, and then on the rare occasion, like this you then go and spoil it all by talking a right load of old bollox. Keep to French and political issues Gnv as you sure know naff all about the countryside or indeed the fox population. Sorry if that sounds a bit forthright but Gnv REALLY.:doh:
The answer to my questions are.............??
I am not sure the countryside alliance holds a strong view on rural foxes?

10 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

Here is a small first step

All very lovely in the real world Blue, but what about the irresponsible dog owners out there? There are a ton of them and if it was just responsible dog owners in this country, we would have no need for laws such as this. So if these laws are brought in for the irresponsible and shit dog owners, what makes anyone think they will comply with these laws? The responsible dog owner will spend the money and get this done, but most responsible dog owners already have.
Why would an irresponsible dog owner give a toss about what the law says?
This is the problem with all laws though Star, but that is not a good reason for not introducing a law.
Both my dogs are chipped.
Further to your point though, the silly hand gun law or ban only stopped responsible owners of sporting hund guns, not one of those who illegally held a gun handed theirs in

10 Feb 2013

Attacks are rare,

10 Feb 2013

Quote by northwest-cpl
At present the greatest danger of urban children being mauled probably comes from their pet dogs. 2 very well publicised fox attacks in the last few years, how many dog attacks? Before spending a lot of money culling urban foxes maybe we should cull a few dogs, and their owners where possible.

Here is a small first step