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dogging in the cardiff area

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Hi all we are a 30's cpl who are interested in dogging. We have been up the wenallt but were put off by the number of single guys there that crowded around the car with no invite. We are hoping for some info on places to go so that we can watch and be watched by other willing cpls and who knows maybe get to join in with eachother.
I would post some locations, but by the time you got there half of the boy racers would be there along with some crims! (plus id get into trouble..again!) rolleyes . Your better off contacting other couples via PM and checking for an uknown site - check this thread
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/23215.html for any ideas. cool
Hope this helps...
NaughtyPaul