Anglo Saxons - can we look in the mirror and be honest?

12 Jul 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
The op's comments were all negative it seemed to me, and I only said what a lot of people would think....if you do not like something then do something about it. I did not say if you don't like it the fuc-off, I was a bit more subtle.

Oh the irony again. rolleyes

What positive thing do you suggest people should do if they don't like something ... start a thread about it, quoting a newspaper artical (sic)? Maybe you could do something positive about the problems of the world that you perceive rather than ranting about politics on a swinging site like a keyboard warrior. Possibly do some volunteer work with ferel (sic) teenagers, become a social worker to help avoid more baby P tragedies (plenty of job vacancies there) or maybe a customs officer to keep our borders safe? But then a good keyboard rant is so much easier and doesn't need leaving the comfort of the armchair.
confused

(can't be arsed with a wink)

12 Jul 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Nobody is saying there is nothing wrong with this country, as Witchy highlighted, you are inconsistent in your views, if anyone says anything negative your standard reply, regardless of how subtle you think you are, is "fuck off to another country then."
And then having shown that intolerance to someone elses viewpoint, which they are entitled to, as you are to yours, you then turn round in praise of this country, and how tolerant we are.
I do not think, or claim to be funny, but it is my opinion that you are fast becoming a figure of ridicule, and your inconsistency, your baiting of people and your blinkered viewpoints will only enhance this.

Of which you are entitled to have, the same as me. I never told anyone to " fuck off to another country ", I merely said if there is so much wrong with this country then leave and find somewhere else you can be more proud of.
I am sure many others would think that way too.
As for becoming a " figure of ridicule ", now that is funny. This is not real here ya know, this is a forum in cyber space that in the real world means nothing.
It is because of too much tolerance that people like myself and my views do not fit in the with new hip hop Liberals way of thinking. Blame the press for everything. Year right ok.
I find it hard to believe how blinkered people have become, and the liberals and the social do gooders have brainwashed people into thinking everything is alright with the world. There ain't no social problems here thankyou very much, it is the Sun and the Daily Wail who try and twist things around.
Lat's all play hop scotch and drink lemonade. :idea:
Dare to not agree and they will label you a right wing tosser, whose only traits in life are reading the papers. Funny though that when it suits people to read the papers, like with the banks and MP's, everyone is up in arms about it. But I thought the press were all liars and thieves.
People take what they want from the papers and twist things they do not like and then like a magic fairy, all of a sudden believe what they want to believe. It is just that I believe a bit more about what I read in them, than a lot of others.
Now where did I put me News of the World again? wink

God Mr K, you crease me up!
Bandying semantics is entirely pointless. "Fuck off to another country" means exactly the same as "leave and find somewhere else you can be more proud of." How you choose to express yourself is not the point. It is what you meant by the words you used, not the words themselves that are the issue.
Secondly how can you be "too" tolerant? Because many people don't want, lets say for example, Nick Griffin's ideas of sinking ships with immigrants in on their way to Europe. We are somehow too tolerant? We don't want families and desperate people vilified, isolated and subject to the kind of abuse the Rumanian community suffered in Ireland, we are too tolerant? We don't want every immigrant in the country tarred and feathered, deported, we are too tolerant? We don't agree with the Sun, Mail or NOTW and we are too tolerant?
Nobody has brainwashed anybody into thinking everything is "alright with the world". There is a great deal that is wrong and unjust, unfair, unkind, deadly, evil and generally shit. However just because people choose not to fall in line with some pre-determined, political, media-driven idealistic notion of what a problem is, somehow those who dissent all assume everything is ok? So basically, we believe what they believe, or we don't believe anything at all? What utter bilge. That's like saying "We say that when you toss a coin it will always be heads, and if you don't agree with us, then you must automatically think that every time you toss a coin, it will be tails." Entirely nonsensical, but you know what, you'll be right 50% of the time.
Is there no compromise in your world Mr K? Why can't we partly agree with things and leave the politics aside? Why can't we debate a subject and not a politically motivated version of events? Why is it when everyone disagrees with you, you move the topic onto a "left v right" argument, repel borders and resort to stating everyone else is blinkered, blind or too liberal to accept there are problems? I'll tell you why, it is because you cannot repudiate their argument in a fashion which is consistent with the evidence that they, or other sources, provide that contradicts your own.
That's what happens when you live on a diet of force-fed Rupert Murdoch. There is no balance. It isn't liberalism, it is a wider view.
You seem to think that you are the only enlightened one on here Mr K, that somehow anyone else who deigns to have an opinion different is somehow deluded by liberalism or refusing to see what is to you, the bleeding obvious.
You say if people dare NOT to agree, they label you a right wing tosser? I am baffled by this to be honest. NOBODY has labelled you at all in that way as far as I am aware. I am afraid that this is entirely the impression you give when you make some of your more controversial posts. If anyone is keen to label people Mr K, it is you. It is you who is quick to descend into the "lefty liberalism" argument whenever people point out alternatives to your view. It is you that ridicules them by using thinly disguised sarcasm, borderline contempt, in your posts for some. It is you who slings those stones I'm afraid and all because usually, people don't agree with your post.
I've lost count of the times I've read a reasonable response to one of your rants and then your answer seems to always be "Of course then, nothing is wrong, all the lefty liberals say it's fine, so it's fine..." when the actual argument does none of that, admits there IS a problem but simply that your, or the newspapers, view of it is entirely skewed from what other people may think.
Mr K, you think you are debating these issues. But you are not. You are making a political point and then these threads descend usually into petty pointscoring, childish namecalling and barely hidden contempt for other people's opinions , not because they are wrong, but because they don't agree with yours. That is the mark of intolerance and the language of fear. It does you no credit.
Which is a shame because despite all of the above, when you do post something worthwhile, which is more often than many people give you credit for, I find myself more often than not, in agreement with you on the basic principle. I can see where you are coming from usually, even if I don't agree with your final destination.
A hill is still a hill viewed from the left or the right. One view may be more beautiful to you than someone elses, but beauty, like opinion, is entirely subjective. It is therefore wrong in my view, to dismiss others opinions in such a calculated, politically based and often sarcastic way. It adds nothing to the debate, weakens your argument, infuriates people and merely strengthens the negative opinions some may have of what you post.
I'm not saying you have to become a tree hugging, sandal wearing, yoghurt eating, hemp-based, charity tin rattling, bearded lefty lesbian Mr K. Just accept that sometimes there is a different view other than what you read in the paper and that this view may be more representative of general feeling and not necessarily, the source of the problem in the first place.
Indeed many times, the source of the problem lies within the very rags you choose to take at face value. I get my news from many sources, based at home and abroad. I can make valued judgements on what is fact and what is opinion, whether statistics are reliable or spun etc etc. This isn't being a lefty Mr K or a wishy washy liberal. I just think it is a fairer, more balanced way.
Toshy idealism I know, but it's better than being spoonfed the politically motivaved bile of the super-rich as a diet on a daily basis.

12 Jul 2009

See Res there lies the exact kind of person, that I am talking about.
A racist? Flower as usual your comments are laughable, and to be honest you are so far away from the truth. But your comments in particualar are as usual there to goad me, people have seen it many times and I have bitten but not on this occasion.
I think Flower your usual wording of me is " Xenophobic ". You left that one out with " racist and bigot "
A bit lIke Gaunty, he is labelled a racist all the time, but that too is laughable. I am many things but that is not one of them, and if I was I am big enough to say so. I have said many times on HERE that people should not be judged on colour, only that the laws should be the same for everyone.
My anger on this thread Res stemmed from the comment "! we could do much better by losing our historical baggage ".
Am off into the sun on me bike to get some fresh air, and funnily enough with three friends, two of which are black......funny that.

12 Jul 2009

some of my best friends are races
lp

12 Jul 2009

not forgetting the Tri-Athlon... the mixed-race.
lp

12 Jul 2009

Quote by flower411
You say if people dare NOT to agree, they label you a right wing tosser? I am baffled by this to be honest. NOBODY has labelled you at all in that way as far as I am aware.

I think I called him a racist bigot or was it a bigotted racist ???? confused

Can`t remember dunno

:dunno:
Well that forwards the debate a great deal further.
We criticise Mr K for reading something so obviously biased and then him making all kinds of assumptions based on what is written and then it appears that others do precisely the same thing to him?
To be honest when I feel debates fall into the realms of petty point scoring, I really can't be arsed, which is probably why I missed this comment in the first place.
Apologies to Too Hot for hijacking once again. Back to the OP...
I think like most countries Britain has a mixed history. We have done things we should be rightly proud of and things that are amongst the most shameful. However to ignore one in favour of the other is entirely unrepresentative of the facts.
There is a notion that we, as an island nation are different to our cousins and ancestors in Europe and beyond. I think this is more than just water that divides us, more a mindset.
Imperialism is long since dead. Our Empire is, rightly, returned in the main, though I can think of a few cultures who would disagree, to those to whom it rightfully belonged. I too fail to understand the need to "socialise" a part of the world so vastly different to our own. I think it is entirely bigotted to assume that our way of life is the epitome of an advanced civilisation. We like to think because we have so much material and technological wealth, that we need to educate (and police) the world. In actual fact, we could do with starting at home first before branching out, and this bit is crucial, WHEN invited.
If Britain was utopia, then perhaps I could understand it more. It seems somewhat barefaced cheek to blithely promote the wonderful society we claim to have, when in actual fact there is so much wrong with it. Especially when other cultures may have their own ways of dealing with things, which however Neanderthal and backward they may appear to us, work quite sufficiently for them.
There is no point "liberating" those who already feel they are free. There is no "democracy" if it is forced upon people.
This is entirely different from fighting evil. Terrorism and suchlike should be rooted out. I am in complete accordance with that. My main concern is that the methods we now employ are not countering the effects of terrorism, but breeding a whole new generation to take the fight onto a new level. Our motives for engaging in this war were dubious and the actions since, have done little to dissuade me from the opinion that Oil was the prime motivating factor, that and the removal of Saddam.
And who bears the brunt? We may see the cost in financial terms, but it is those on the front line who face the bombs and bullets that this has brought about. It is they who I feel truly, desperately sorry for and who I feel deserve to know exactly who and what they are fighting for.
I don't know many soldiers who'd be happy to see the man next to them shot, or blown to smithereens, to ensure America can keep the price at the petrol pump within accepted levels, but call it a war on terror and tyranny and it becomes more acceptable.
There's no easy solution to the middle east. Forcing democracy on a people is not the answer. It assumes we know best and seems to be riding roughshod over the ideals and principles that have been the cornerstone of that part of the world for many years, rightly or wrongly.
I don't know what the answer is, I don't think anyone can. I just don't think it will come from the power of the bullet and ballot. It will come from what the people there decide, once we stop killing them in whatever cause you choose to believe we are there for.
Accountability works two ways. Sometimes the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is only where you were born and what you were brought up with.

12 Jul 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
I can't get my head around being "proud" of something I had no part in. However, I know that if I could, there are bloody great swathes of our history I'm actually pretty damn ashamed of.

... but if there are bits you can feel ashamed of (historically), there must be bits you can be proud of too as you will have had nothing to do with the good or the bad historically speaking?
Don't understand the accident of birth thing - well I do but it just seems an odd way of seeing things, it's sort of irrelevant, like being born male/female ... it just 'is' ...
Having just read it back it's missing half a sentence :scratches head: The "if I could" bit was meant to be expanded on, as in "if I could feel pride, I'd feel ashamed too..." etc. :thumbup:
Kenty, I can't understand how on the one hand you're so incredibly proud to be British, and in countless other topics telling us how appaling the country is. You're always saying how, effectively, too much tolerance has caused the problems we have- and now saying we're the "most tolerant country around" in a positive way. dunno

I am proud to be English but am not proud of a lot of what it has become.
There is like anywhere lots wrong here, but get sick and tired of people bringing up negative things in our history from hundreds of years ago. It don't make sense.I remember Kenny boy crying over what we did with regards to the slave trade. Crying ffs? Come on. Yes that is a part of our bad history but....that was how many years ago now? They were what happened then and thankfully we have all moved on a bit from then.
We live here now and I am not really interested in something that happened 200 years ago.
We are the most tolerant country that I know of. But with that tolerance has brought about many changes, and a lot of them NOT for the better.
The op's comments were all negative it seemed to me, and I only said what a lot of people would think....if you do not like something then do something about it. I did not say if you don't like it the fuc-off, I was a bit more subtle. wink

I agree with what you are saying, although it was obviously going to be used as a green light to those who love playing the "race card".
Just remember it's a free country and you are allowed an opinion, as long as it is politically correct.

12 Jul 2009

Can you lot just pack it in, and get back to topic.
Stop trying to ruin yet another thread with your childish point scoring mad

13 Jul 2009

Odd Anglo-Saxon, the over riding theme in Anglo-Saxon history was self defence. Only when the Normans arrived in England did England start to expand. It was the Normans that attempted to conquer France. Richard the Lion Heart who conquered Cyprus, a good part of 'The Holy Lands' and murdered 5000 non-combatants, in one day.
When the English nations returned the monarchy to the old Saxon ideal of the people's servant, that was when English expansion became a matter of trading and defending it's trading partners.
As for the Americans, they sold out to the French. All the good Americans moved to Canada as part of the treaty to end the war.
I have never liked the way Anglo-Saxon has been used to to describe Norman behaviour.

13 Jul 2009

Quote by
I have never liked the way Anglo-Saxon has been used to to describe Norman behaviour.

I know! I can't believe how the naton took him too their heart. Makes me cringe everytime I hear him wail " Mr Grimsdale, Mr Grimdale"
Apparently he's very very popular in Albania. In my mind theres no decent Anglo Saxon in Norman.

18 Jul 2009

And there's me thinking that as a nation we had a history of tolerance acceptance and liberalism....just depends where you look I suppose

20 Jul 2009

Why single out the Anglo-Saxon peoples for a slang off campaign ?
We had an empire because of technically superior weaponry and tactics - not because we had any more desire to build an empire than anyone else.
American Indian and African tribes, for instance, were, and in many areas of Africa still are, involved in nationalist & racist tribal warfare, ie Rwanda, Kenya, South African pogroms against Zimbabwean refugees etc
Uncomfortable, but true.

20 Jul 2009

Hi,
Our society as are most is based solely upon migrating masses,even our "anglo-saxon" origins by very nature consist of saxon influinces and that after the Romans forced the previous inhabitants to the extremes of the country and even into Britany. I wish we could be more tollerant of other countries and beliefs. On the other hand the world does need to become more of a single society if we are to act together going forward. So lets carry on making everyone else do what we want! only joking....its a pickle mad

21 Jul 2009

I don't think humans as a species are ready yet to become a single group with a peaceful culture. BUT we are intelligent beings. And if all we can do is keep our own little bit of the planet in good order, and do that without damaging or imposing on the rest of it then we should that small thing.
Those of the population who are inclined to make a bigger difference should do so. And I don't mean bog standard politicians here, I mean real people who make real differences.

28 Jul 2009

I agree with everything have read...