Is everyone who slags off teachers for what they do really hard working 24/7 people then??????
I am not a teacher but I am bored of people slagging them off. If we didnt have teachers who dont actually get paid that much in the rounds then who would educate the workforce of the future? they train hard and yes you get the odd one who get through and are as thick as mud but in every profession you get that. So why are teachers such easy targets?
If by exam we mean a memory recall test of knowledge and understanding then I really don't see why that should be assumed to be a fundamental part of advanced education. Such education is primarily about skills and and these are very difficult to assess well in a traditional exam environment. If I want to decide the best fisherman in the world he probably isn't the one who can identify the make and model number of all the rods on the market or write an essay discussing the pros and cons of ham versus sweetcorn when fishing for carp. I suspect he will be the one who consistently catches the most fish.
In terms of literacy skills that were raised earlier,spelling punctuation and grammar have long been held to be incredibly important. Im not sure they are. The finest design engineer I ever met was illiterate to the extent that he could hardly spell any multi syllable word or construct or understand complex sentences on first reading. It didnt and shouldnt have stopped him being educated in acquiring the skills he needed to make the most of his talents.
I would rather my offspring left education with the ability to think independently,take on board new information, research areas of interest, and express their view in writing or talking than know the difference between a dissertation and a situation or the usage of an apostrophe.
Since when did the ability of a teacher to nurture children and help them grow and develop depend on the teachers ability to spell or count. I sincerely hope that the idolisation of that kind of pedagogic pedantry is in the past. I believe the ability of a person to nurture our offspring and help them develop depends far more on their people skills than their literacy/numeracy.
I still think a lot of the bile in this thread is prompted by past resentment and current jealousy, jealousy that is based on misconceived preconceptions. I might be wrong Id be interested to hear what you lot think.
Fb.....I have always said that the three most important things in education are the 3 R'S. We have mentioned two of them above.
If you can read and write and do basic maths, you will not go far wrong in life.
Education is more than just attending school - most learning is happening all around children, young people and adults through multiple media's and new situations every day so I don't believe that attending school is the main factor to education, skills and training.
But this is not about what and how children learn in school, its about a belief that teachers do not work long enough hours and have too much holiday. I suppose Firefighters also should work longer hours then working on this premise........
The hours set for the Educating children are being reviewed all the time - I believe there will be a radical change in the teaching hours in the next 10 years which will suit children far better but I am sure parents will hate it - earlier starts and earlier finishing and evening and weekend schooling.
I just feel that our world of work is so devisive in that we attack each others professions rather than celebrate the fact that the majority of people working in education actually do it because they are passionate about wanting to make a difference to children's lives. I believe its an incredibly hard job - they are not babysitting, they are developing and stimulating young minds.
I also believe that we still have inadequate support services for children who don't fit into the average child agenda which stigmatises them as a failure. As an optomist I also realise that many people go back to education in their 20's and 30's and do very very well.
I have had some great teachers and some really poor ones. I have had crap bosses and brilliant visionary ones. Some worked long hours and some didn't. The quality to me is the outcome. I would rather have a child educated for 6 hours a day by teachers who will make a difference to that child's life than someone who hates their job for 8 hours a day and has to develop all their handouts and course material in their holidays.
not quite in the same vein but when I finish my degree I want to go on to lecturing at a uni, I do placements during term time at schools as and when they come up, and to be honest I think teachers are underpaid, I don't know if it's just because I'm not a "proper" teacher but the amount of hassle I got from the local scrotes (e.g bricking my car windows, slashing my tyres etc) does my head in, I can't wait to get into a uni post and to actually have a class who (for the majority) will want to be there, I've been shocked by the amount of work the teachers have to do in preperation for lessons which as far as I can tell is just because the kids are too dammed lazy to do the work and study themselves, they expect it all on a silver platter and to be spoon fed by yours truely
Nope, that would be our expense claiming MP's.
What I think is necessary is a radical re-think of how teachers operate.
I maintain that teachers should have contracts simlilar to other salaried workers i.e. 37 hour working weeks four weeks increasing with time served paid leave. OK it may mean a fundamental shift in the school working year but why not eh? Its an antiquated system is the system of school terms anyway.
For what its worth I do think in the main teachers do a really hard job under difficult circumstances though no more difficult or hard than a multitude of other workers in other jobs.
And as for the holidays teachers receive. I have been on two recruitment days for teachers one for secondary and one for primary and on both days the point of 13 weeks holidays being a huge perk was being pushed big time. On both occasions even after discussion with those assembled regarding the extra unseen work done by teachers this was seen as a huge bonus by the teachers themselves.
Why is the out of classroom work not made a bigger issue by teachers. Should they not be barracking their employers and unions to stop this type of thing?
Of course a lot of people outside of the teaching profession and schools see teachers as having huge lumps of holidays as its not transparent in what they do actually do outside of the "Childrens" School day.
Whilst I realize why in these times people may feel angry towards Teachers having a Pay Increase at this present time.
I know at least two people whom are Teachers & I would say they fulfil the following roles...
Teacher, Parent, Guide on Appropriate Behaviour especially when dealing with others,Mentor, Psychologist, Be aware of Diversity & how different people behave (White to Black British behaviour), Social Worker...
I could go on with all the different roles that one person has to be & I would have the balls to do the job.
An example I can give is Morgan Freeman's character in the flim 'Se7en'.
Cause that character has seen sooo much negativity in his role, he has no life or connections. Yet still does the job & doesn't retire at the end due to a feeling of Duty (continued)...
Teachers are the same, they must have to deal with sooo many issues that affect their own Mental Health but the majority still carry out the task with high professionalism & that feeling of duty.
I have worked myself with vulnerable people & please be aware that their is nothing as sad, worrying, tragic & scary than a vulnerable Human Being.
I live & are from Liverpool, a city with high documented issues of Social Division:
Racism, Drugs Culture, established Drugs Industry, Unemployment, Benefit Dependency, Low Education etc..
Now Teachers in my city are sometimes sadly the only hope / encouragement that a person might have in their entire lives.
So I say give them what they want in terms of pay.
Don't know any teachers personally so can't say for sure whether they're overpaid, underworked with mega long holidays ... but I suspect that it's nothing like as cosy as people think it is ...
You are entitled to your opinion 777. However most of the time I disagree with it as I disagree with what you just said. I'm not saying that teachers deserve more than others and never did say that. I do live in the real world and feel insulted that you suggest I don't. What I was saying was that teachers do not earn massive wages as some people seem to think. We too struggle to pay our way and if they ask for a 10% payrise good luck to them. After all it's a lot less than the bloody bankers or M.P. give themselves.
However I am not going to argue this point anymore as I have seen in other threads that it is a waste of time.
This is just my opinion,but I have two kids in school and I think think that the whole problem is not with teachers pay but with the way in which they are paid.
Teaching is not a job I could do as still believe that when a child is naughty they should be `t hold with corpral punishment as beat one devil out and another in as my Nan used to I have no time for trendy teaching methods.
The pay scale listed in this thread just makes no sense to me.
What in a ideal world should happen is that the teachers that perform well get rewarded for it and those that don`t,don` if you pay all the same then people get at other industries and see how they pay staff.I know in mine(engineering) that we pay what someone is worth not what a scale says they should be paid, we end up with big differnces in pay the for same job.I would also be out of a job if my performance was poor enough. Does`t happen much in public service does it......And as to hours worked.
But the biggest problem with education at the moment is tahe it is a political standards are poor not because of teachers,but because we have had one trendy method after another inflicted on kids for the last god knows how long.
Schools should be independant of political interferance and union free as unions at this time are playing with my kids education and that makes my blood they don`t get the rise stike action looms. And kids education suffers again.
So are they overpaid,probably paid some probably the big question is why if you don`t like what you are paid to do the job that you took,why havent you left and found something better paid,Or is the overall package too good.
Any spelling mistakes are down to my inability to spell not to my education .
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