I hate hunting with hounds being called a sport. I hate what it is. I dont hate hunters. I hate what they do. I think making it a class thing sidesteps the issue completely and gives the hunt more strength in their argument about being victims of a class war. As so many have said people from all walks of life support hunting with dogs. Move on from that smoke screen point and oppose it for what it really is.
Its an act of cruelty. Nothing else. I hate it that these decent people cant or wont see the cruelty involved and try to justify it with all sorts of nonesence such as pest control at the same time as breeding their quarry for future 'fun'.
Its not likened to fishing or shooting, or domestic cats or anything else. If the arguement for it is that strong let it stand on its own!
Sport is where both sides have a chance to compete and win. The odds are not only stacked but when the fox does 'win' its dug out. It's not sport. Its barbaric, outdated and has much less inhumane alternatives that are just as much fun.
After reading this thread I have a few questions that spring into my head.
Is it the "sport" that people do not like or the killing of the animal?
If the animal is a pest then it has to go, whether it is hunted, shot, poisoned, gassed or snared. Each one can be a quick death, but I bet most are not and they are drawn out, painful and the animal is in fear. So whichever way you deal with it, the animal is going to suffer in someway. To argue which one is less painful or fearful for the animal is, IMO, to argue whether to be hit by a 10 ton or 11 ton truck at 50 MPH.
So any form of pest control can be justified as cruel. Do people want to stop all pest control? Or only when it suits them? Which animals could be killed in a slow, agonising death and who gets to choose? Is it going to be the "dirty" rat or "fluffy" squirrel and fox that people wouldn't mind killing?
Looking at fox hunting on its own. If dogs were used and the animal is chased down and despatched with a couple of glum old gamekeepers would the law have come in? Would anybody have cared? So is it because people follow the hunt and enjoy the spectacle that they object to?
Last one, if it is animal cruelty that is the issue, where is the demand for all pest control (and possibly any type of animal husbandry) to stop and let things happen naturally?
Dave_Notts
Its cruelty for fun. Dont kid yourself that its for pest control. There are far more effective ways to control pests. Breeding them isn't amongst the top ways. And most farmers that have pest problems deal with it themselves in the most effective way they can. Hunting with hounds is for tradition, nothing else.
And dont leave out the stag hunts. Deer are a problem if left unchecked. They have no natural preditors any more and can cause serious damage to the balance without being culled. But chasing them down with dogs is by far the most stressful and cruel way to manage that population. Its also a long way from being the most effective. A man with a shotgun can take 5 or 6 a day and they die with grass in their mouth. THe only argument for doing this is the 'sport' aspect. Dont dress it up as necessety.
Whats wrong with drag hunting? Why is that not acceptable?
So pest control is ok and all other types of animal husbandry because it is "less cruel" and the bit you object to is the sport side of it? Blue mentioned it earlier where he said (paraphrasing as I am too lazy to go find his quote) just because people enjoy their work, why ban it?
If it gets rid of the problem, I couldn't care less if they came dressed up as clowns riding a penny farthing.
Dave_Notts
No. Its the chasing down and tearing apart thing i have a problem with. I know plenty of people who use guns for pest control and enjoy it.
Anyway I was just putting forward my unwavering opinion on this subject. You've as much chance as changing my mind on it as I have changing yours.
I've been riding with people who hunt plenty of times to know that both sides are far too blinkered to ever be able to agree and that both sides will use whatever examples of cruelty they can to justify or strengthen our position. We can argue it out and never ever win. Or we can have a good canter and talk about something else. In the end we look at each other a little differently, we think the other is a bit of a nut job for believing what they do (how could they be so blind??) but the world keeps turning.
I'll never change my mind on how i feel about hunting with hounds. I celebrate the fact that its illegal but i know the law is a fragile one at best and flauted blatently so the victory is a hollow one.
Ah he'd never had scored those furs with a hunt... they're in one peice still!
Like someone has mentioned, there were that many loopholes in the law that the "victory" was never there. I think that only one person has ever been found guilty of fox hunting and that was a not a custodial sentance.
People can still use dogs for pest control so the chasing down and tearing apart is still happening. The question in my mind, is this type any more cruel then a slow lingering death by poison or a bad shot by a shotgun.
The law came in supposedly on the cruelty aspect, but the majority of arguments seems to focus on the classes. IMO if a law comes in for some reason then that reason should be paramount and not for scoring points. A bit like the smoking law, the reason was to reduce the death rate of non-smokers per-se, not to outcast folk.
As for penny farthings and clown suits..........I think I can see an idea coming on.
Dave_Notts
personally I wish they would do cat hunting, every day I have to go into my front and back garden clean up the mess the local cats leave behind, as its not safe for my kids to play outside otherwise.
Nothing worse than an over excited yuppie.
you gotta see it here in France to believe it!
The hole themselves up in a hunting lodge in the middle of the fôret on a Friday night, get absolutely pissed on home made hooch and then at dawn go out shooting at each other....
So many problems with this, the hunt police now insist on them all wearing yellow jackets so they have a better target to shoot at!
:laughabove::laughabove::laughabove:
Slight staining?