
Quote by Dave__Notts
If somebody employs somebody and do not check the person they are employing are competant.........then you have to wonder why they are in the job to employ somebody who is not competant in the first place.
Quote by Max777
Up here we have one school which has a catchment area the size of the area encompassed by the M25. Some of the villages in that catchment area have bus services only some days of the week, and haven't seen a train since the 1950s. We have schoolkids up here who do seventy mile roundtrips by taxi and bus to get to school. One of our villages still had snow on the ground in March - and all you can do is whinge about how people won;t do what you want to make your life easier....
Quote by Dave__Notts
In the real world people will check on their qualifications, check their experience, check their history and check what they are doing.
This is where laziness on the employers part fails to detect a numpty.
If we look at this in an example and an area what you know about. You run a printing firm, so are an expert in how this industry works. You employ a "H&S expert" to help to look at certain areas that you are responsible for. This expert starts telling you something that is obviously wrong as you know industry standards do not require what they are trying to get you to do. This should start alarm bells ringing that the person you have employed is not competant to be helping you in this area of work.
If an employer just employs someone and lets them have free-rule then the competance issue should be looking at the employer......as they are the numpty. It is the employers business and they need to ensure that these people are who they say they are.
The printing industry was and is full of numpties that the HSE has to write specific guidance to show them how to do their job safely. Unfortunately a number of them still ignore this basic guidance and lose bits of themselves each year. Common sense? Not that freely available from what I can see.
In all jobs there are people who cock up and are detected and dealt with. This is throughout the public and private sector, with most deaths, injuries and ill health being in the private sector.
Dave_Notts
Quote by kentswingers777
Yes Davey you are correct.
Trouble is though numpties are alive and well in all professions, not just in H and S .
I run a machine without top guards on....my choice to do so, I do not need anyone telling me the dangers of this, and ultimately it is my health and my safety I am putting at risk as nobody else runs the printing press.
Now IF I was to employ another printer I would of course replace those guards, but another employer would possibly not. That is where HandS are good, to force employers to abide by the law where otherwise they would not, and put their staff at risk.
Employers are responsible for the safety of their staff to a degree, and also the employees also have to take responsibility for their own safety as well.
Like most things in life....most of it is based on pure and simple common sense.
Quote by flower411
I wouldn`t be so sure about that !!! The machine isn`t dangerous but it could cause harm to somebody who is not careful when using it and therefore the manufacturer has fitted guards to stop numpties from harming themselves. In the hands of a skilled operator there is probably no more danger than crossing the road.
Quote by flower411
Looking at your scenario, a machine that is known to be dangerous is fitted with guards that you remove
Quote by awayman
Up here we have one school which has a catchment area the size of the area encompassed by the M25. Some of the villages in that catchment area have bus services only some days of the week, and haven't seen a train since the 1950s. We have schoolkids up here who do seventy mile roundtrips by taxi and bus to get to school. One of our villages still had snow on the ground in March - and all you can do is whinge about how people won;t do what you want to make your life easier....
Quote by flower411
Have you ever checked out the first section of the Compensation Act 2006? The Uren case is relevant too..
Quote by flower411
Have you ever checked out the first section of the Compensation Act 2006? The Uren case is relevant too..
Quote by vampanya
Id be even more of a H&S nightmare then. I ride my horse without wearing a hard hat most of the time. I give it plenty of thought, assess the risk and take it anyway. Its my risk. H&S can go slide a hedgehog up its arse.
Quote by vampanya
Have you ever checked out the first section of the Compensation Act 2006? The Uren case is relevant too..
Quote by kentswingers777
I wouldn`t be so sure about that !!! The machine isn`t dangerous but it could cause harm to somebody who is not careful when using it and therefore the manufacturer has fitted guards to stop numpties from harming themselves. In the hands of a skilled operator there is probably no more danger than crossing the road.
Quote by Max777
Up here we have one school which has a catchment area the size of the area encompassed by the M25. Some of the villages in that catchment area have bus services only some days of the week, and haven't seen a train since the 1950s. We have schoolkids up here who do seventy mile roundtrips by taxi and bus to get to school. One of our villages still had snow on the ground in March - and all you can do is whinge about how people won;t do what you want to make your life easier....
Quote by Dave__Notts
It is dangerous otherwise it wouldn't need guarding
Quote by awayman
Up here we have one school which has a catchment area the size of the area encompassed by the M25. Some of the villages in that catchment area have bus services only some days of the week, and haven't seen a train since the 1950s. We have schoolkids up here who do seventy mile roundtrips by taxi and bus to get to school. One of our villages still had snow on the ground in March - and all you can do is whinge about how people won;t do what you want to make your life easier....
Quote by kentswingers777
So Davey..............madness or sensible?
Quote by flower411
I use a lot of power tools in my work and for hobbies. Many of them are impossible to make foolproof........too many safety features and they would simply cease to function !
There will always be middle ground between machinery that performs its function as safely as possible and machinery that will not do what it`s supposed to do.
Only the operator can make the ultimate decision as to what they consider is safe and no matter what we do some things will always carry an element of danger that can`t be eliminated.
Accidents will happen....people will be injured and some will die.
The only way to stop the accidents is to stop using the tools.
People will always find ways to maim or kill themselves ....no amount of health and safety regulations will ever stop that. It`s one of the things that makes us free ....the freedom to be irresponsible.
For the record ....I moan incessantly at mrs f for riding horses over jumps ...it`s dangerous and irresponsible
Quote by kentswingers777
It is dangerous otherwise it wouldn't need guarding
Quote by Max777
Up here we have one school which has a catchment area the size of the area encompassed by the M25. Some of the villages in that catchment area have bus services only some days of the week, and haven't seen a train since the 1950s. We have schoolkids up here who do seventy mile roundtrips by taxi and bus to get to school. One of our villages still had snow on the ground in March - and all you can do is whinge about how people won;t do what you want to make your life easier....
Quote by awayman
Up here we have one school which has a catchment area the size of the area encompassed by the M25. Some of the villages in that catchment area have bus services only some days of the week, and haven't seen a train since the 1950s. We have schoolkids up here who do seventy mile roundtrips by taxi and bus to get to school. One of our villages still had snow on the ground in March - and all you can do is whinge about how people won;t do what you want to make your life easier....
Quote by awayman
Up here we have one school which has a catchment area the size of the area encompassed by the M25. Some of the villages in that catchment area have bus services only some days of the week, and haven't seen a train since the 1950s. We have schoolkids up here who do seventy mile roundtrips by taxi and bus to get to school. One of our villages still had snow on the ground in March - and all you can do is whinge about how people won;t do what you want to make your life easier....
Quote by Dave__Notts
Up here we have one school which has a catchment area the size of the area encompassed by the M25. Some of the villages in that catchment area have bus services only some days of the week, and haven't seen a train since the 1950s. We have schoolkids up here who do seventy mile roundtrips by taxi and bus to get to school. One of our villages still had snow on the ground in March - and all you can do is whinge about how people won;t do what you want to make your life easier....
Quote by awayman
or is this part of the clique's game of making constant ad hominem attacks?
Quote by Dave__Notts
As I keep repeating, a single person making a decision that has no basis in law
Quote by kentswingers777
It may well be single people making a decision Davey but............there are hundreds of these " single people " making these decisions up and down the country.
These are not isolated incidents, if only they were.
It does not have to have any basis in law, as who is going to challenge a lot of these in a court of law??
Banning playing conkers is a decision a Headmaster made in HIS school....were even any laws broken there at all?
He made a decision which went unchallenged, there are loads of other examples of this happening, which means it does not have any basis as it will never be challenged....that is the whole point.