Ban on tail docking

16 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
No Blue I'm saying the same as I have done all along ,that docking is an unnecessary surgical procedure,that all surgical procedures carry a risk,that it is not a painless procedure (nip down to the hospital and have them cut your thumb off... I doubt you would enjoy the process).I was merely pointing out to G that docking is not always the clean clinical process that he seems to believe.
It is you Blue who is trying to justify a surgical procedure not you mean castration and spaying of dogs then I really don't need to justify them ... ban them by all means and then deal with the strays,abuse and neglect that would ensue,deal with keeping your kids and dogs indoors to avoid the increased number of dog attacks that would follow ... my argument hasn't fallen down or altered yours it would seem is skidding along on it's arse

I have made a comparison Staggs, two surgical procedures, both involving risk and pain to the animal. I would hazard the docking to be a far smaller procedure. A local Anastasia, quick snip and two stitches
Mine is chosen to prevent stress and pain to a working dog, yours it would seam is done to save us all from bedlam. Who is benefiting from this, is it the dog, is it us, the human race? dunno

I have not called for a ban on this staggs, just to point out your double standard, purely because this procedure suits your needs and way of thinking.
I have not felt the need to inflict this pain and distress on my dog.
I am simply pointing out that your argument for castration and spaying is no more justifiable than mine for docking.
My argument is the same as it was at the start, I firmly believe the docking of some breeds to be of benefit to the dog.

16 Apr 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009

No Blue I'm saying the same as I have done all along ,that docking is an unnecessary surgical procedure,that all surgical procedures carry a risk,that it is not a painless procedure (nip down to the hospital and have them cut your thumb off... I doubt you would enjoy the process).I was merely pointing out to G that docking is not always the clean clinical process that he seems to believe.
It is you Blue who is trying to justify a surgical procedure not you mean castration and spaying of dogs then I really don't need to justify them ... ban them by all means and then deal with the strays,abuse and neglect that would ensue,deal with keeping your kids and dogs indoors to avoid the increased number of dog attacks that would follow ... my argument hasn't fallen down or altered yours it would seem is skidding along on it's arse

I have made a comparison Staggs, two surgical procedures, both involving risk and pain to the animal. I would hazard the docking to be a far smaller procedure. A local Anastasia, quick snip and two stitches
Mine is chosen to prevent stress and pain to a working dog, yours it would seam is done to save us all from bedlam. Who is benefiting from this, is it the dog, is it us, the human race? dunno

I have not called for a ban on this staggs, just to point out your double standard, purely because this procedure suits your needs and way of thinking.
I have not felt the need to inflict this pain and distress on my dog.
I am simply pointing out that your argument for castration and spaying is no more justifiable than mine for docking.
My argument is the same as it was at the start, I firmly believe the docking of some breeds to be of benefit to the dog.
And there was me labouring under the misapprehension that you were a responsible dog owner .... do you insist that you sexual partners deal with contraception too?? or is it just your dog ? who is responsible when he escapes because he's got scent of a bitch ?? and I don't care how much control you believe you have over your dog it can happen with your dog just the same as any other ... I'd move well away from any busy roads if I were you

16 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB

No Blue I'm saying the same as I have done all along ,that docking is an unnecessary surgical procedure,that all surgical procedures carry a risk,that it is not a painless procedure (nip down to the hospital and have them cut your thumb off... I doubt you would enjoy the process).I was merely pointing out to G that docking is not always the clean clinical process that he seems to believe.
It is you Blue who is trying to justify a surgical procedure not you mean castration and spaying of dogs then I really don't need to justify them ... ban them by all means and then deal with the strays,abuse and neglect that would ensue,deal with keeping your kids and dogs indoors to avoid the increased number of dog attacks that would follow ... my argument hasn't fallen down or altered yours it would seem is skidding along on it's arse

I have made a comparison Staggs, two surgical procedures, both involving risk and pain to the animal. I would hazard the docking to be a far smaller procedure. A local Anastasia, quick snip and two stitches
Mine is chosen to prevent stress and pain to a working dog, yours it would seam is done to save us all from bedlam. Who is benefiting from this, is it the dog, is it us, the human race? dunno

I have not called for a ban on this staggs, just to point out your double standard, purely because this procedure suits your needs and way of thinking.
I have not felt the need to inflict this pain and distress on my dog.
I am simply pointing out that your argument for castration and spaying is no more justifiable than mine for docking.
My argument is the same as it was at the start, I firmly believe the docking of some breeds to be of benefit to the dog.
And there was me labouring under the misapprehension that you were a responsible dog owner .... do you insist that you sexual partners deal with contraception too?? or is it just your dog ? who is responsible when he escapes because he's got scent of a bitch ?? and I don't care how much control you believe you have over your dog it can happen with your dog just the same as any other ... I'd move well away from any busy roads if I were you
She is a bitch Stags, and when in season she stays in, no rocket science, just common sense and responsible dog ownership wink

16 Apr 2012

And she is never left? the door is never opened?? No-one else knows she is a trained unspayed bitch ??

Your dog is a prime target for theft ... have you ever seen the result of over breeding on a bitch ?? my advice would be have her spayed because if she's stolen she will suffer , and believe me dog theft is a growing industry ... so there you go a damn good reason to have your dog or bitch done
You got that evidence to support docking yet ??

16 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
And she is never left? the door is never opened?? No-one else knows she is a trained unspayed bitch ??

Your dog is a prime target for theft ... have you ever seen the result of over breeding on a bitch ?? my advice would be have her spayed because if she's stolen she will suffer , and believe me dog theft is a growing industry ... so there you go a damn good reason to have your dog or bitch done
You got that evidence to support docking yet ??

Ah, scare tactics.... The kind of thing Tony Blair and his Government used to employ ia an attempt to keep us all in line!
Am I to hang a large sign on the dog to say she has been spayed so all criminals will know?
As a trained dog she is a target for theft. just like any valuables, one has to do what you can to keep them safe.
What you have listed above is not evidence staggs, but opinions, you believe these action may make her safer. That is what I believe about a docked tail.

16 Apr 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009
And she is never left? the door is never opened?? No-one else knows she is a trained unspayed bitch ??

Your dog is a prime target for theft ... have you ever seen the result of over breeding on a bitch ?? my advice would be have her spayed because if she's stolen she will suffer , and believe me dog theft is a growing industry ... so there you go a damn good reason to have your dog or bitch done
You got that evidence to support docking yet ??

Ah, scare tactics.... The kind of thing Tony Blair and his Government used to employ ia an attempt to keep us all in line!
Am I to hang a large sign on the dog to say she has been spayed so all criminals will know?
As a trained dog she is a target for theft. just like any valuables, one has to do what you can to keep them safe.
What you have listed above is not evidence staggs, but opinions, you believe these action may make her safer. That is what I believe about a docked tail.
Blue I'm sorry to have to say this but you are a fool ... I hope you and your dog never have occasion to find out how much of one ...BB tonight arranged transport for a trained police sniffer dog that has been rescued from a travellers camp ... how well trained is your dog ?? go back and look down the lists on doglost this is not a scare tactic it is the truth, your dog is to someone else nothing more than a money making machine there is more than enough proof of that to be found.I could offer you reams and reams of proof sob stories bitches old before their time bitches bred to death but it wont make any difference because your dog is different you are a better more responsible owner ... you are in short the goose be careful not to lay that egg

16 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
And she is never left? the door is never opened?? No-one else knows she is a trained unspayed bitch ??

Your dog is a prime target for theft ... have you ever seen the result of over breeding on a bitch ?? my advice would be have her spayed because if she's stolen she will suffer , and believe me dog theft is a growing industry ... so there you go a damn good reason to have your dog or bitch done
You got that evidence to support docking yet ??

Ah, scare tactics.... The kind of thing Tony Blair and his Government used to employ ia an attempt to keep us all in line!
Am I to hang a large sign on the dog to say she has been spayed so all criminals will know?
As a trained dog she is a target for theft. just like any valuables, one has to do what you can to keep them safe.
What you have listed above is not evidence staggs, but opinions, you believe these action may make her safer. That is what I believe about a docked tail.
Blue I'm sorry to have to say this but you are a fool ... I hope you and your dog never have occasion to find out how much of one ...BB tonight arranged transport for a trained police sniffer dog that has been rescued from a travellers camp ... how well trained is your dog ?? go back and look down the lists on doglost this is not a scare tactic it is the truth, your dog is to someone else nothing more than a money making machine there is more than enough proof of that to be found.I could offer you reams and reams of proof sob stories bitches old before their time bitches bred to death but it wont make any difference because your dog is different you are a better more responsible owner ... you are in short the goose be careful not to lay that egg
So are you saying this mutilation is for the benefit of the dog?

16 Apr 2012

Hubris Blue
Take down the pics of you and the dog and have her spayed please

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Blue I'm sorry to have to say this but you are a fool ... I hope you and your dog never have occasion to find out how much of one ...BB tonight arranged transport for a trained police sniffer dog that has been rescued from a travellers camp ... how well trained is your dog ?? go back and look down the lists on doglost this is not a scare tactic it is the truth, your dog is to someone else nothing more than a money making machine there is more than enough proof of that to be found.I could offer you reams and reams of proof sob stories bitches old before their time bitches bred to death but it wont make any difference because your dog is different you are a better more responsible owner ... you are in short the goose be careful not to lay that egg

not exactly true? staggs
the kc announced that a breeding bitch may now register only 4 litters iirc and only 2 litters to dogs the require birth by c section
there is also age limits on when you can start to breed a bitch from and the latest you can register a litter from a bitch
you might want to get ready for a glut of rescue dogs as the bubble for breeding dogs is about to burst and them unscrupulous breeders who use dogs for big profit will be turning to something else
as for travellers stealing dogs to breed you will find that they prefer to steal them for ransom as its far more profitable
as for neutering dogs we spoke with our vet last night a dog should not be neutered before its full mature as is widely believed it will not only not mature. also she mentions that early research is showing that it could also stunt a dogs bone growth in areas like the head which is one slowest development area's of a maturing dog
running off when the doors left open then just as many dogs will (spayed or unspayed) run out of an open door so surely it would be money better invested in micro chipping and an auto door shut than spaying or neutering if your worried you might leave a door or gate open dunno

spaying or neutering its no different its done by people for people as we keep a domesticated wild animal as a pet
what about the rubbish that people feed their dogs
shit like bakers or pedigree chum how many responsible owners actually feed their dogs a decent balanced dog meal very few id wager
as most healthy foods for dogs are expensive
i could not start to explain just how corrupt and morally unjust the dog breeding fraternity is and just what lenghts they go to, i could show you 9 different crufts entered stud dogs with the very same health certificate signed by the same vet in redhill with all the same boxes ticked to say the dogs been DNA tested and healthy for breeding when its obvious the dog has been no where near the vet lets face it why travel 300 miles to a vet for a health test when you get this at any vet round the corner
there is very big money in dog breeding far more mutilation goes on than tail docking with much more sinister reasoning
its my opinion that owners of working field dogs believe that docking the tail is for the benefit of the dog against potential damage and should be allowed
the very same reason that you believe that spaying will protect your bitch against being stolen and breed to death
sad fact is they will steal your dog and not know its spayed, when it doesn't come into season it will be left to starve or turned loose to roam and get run over the chances of you getting that dog back or not stolen because it is spayed are the same as bluesgetting a tail injury!! but both are done for the same reason . you believe its best for the dog ??

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Blue I'm sorry to have to say this but you are a fool

thankfully that is just an opinion. whilst i do not agree with tail docking, sorry staggers but some of your comments are frankly without any foundation at all.
Blue has argued his case very well with regards to tail docking, and for the record i still do not agree as i think the practice is nothing short of mutilation but,,,,

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
this is not a scare tactic it is the truth

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I could offer you reams and reams of proof sob stories

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
my advice would be have her spayed because if she's stolen she will suffer

no actual proof, and sorry nothing but scare tactics to force a point of view across. unless you can of course supply that proof that you have in reams dunno

as i have said already, i agree that tail docking should be banned and i do not agree that this practice is not done for the benefit of owners who make more money. there can be no justification for all dogs to have there tails docked, for the sake of a possible few who injure there tails.
comments like this mr staggers are scaremongering opinions and very little else.

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
And there was me labouring under the misapprehension that you were a responsible dog owner .... do you insist that you sexual partners deal with contraception too?? or is it just your dog ? who is responsible when he escapes because he's got scent of a bitch ?? and I don't care how much control you believe you have over your dog it can happen with your dog just the same as any other ... I'd move well away from any busy roads if I were you

Quote by bluefish
She is a bitch Stags, and when in season she stays in, no rocket science, just common sense and responsible dog ownership

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Lizaleanrob

not exactly true? staggs
the kc announced that a breeding bitch may now register only 4 litters iirc and only 2 litters to dogs the require birth by c section
And of course any one who is breeding from a stolen bitch will be registering them with the KC wont they :doh:
there is also age limits on when you can start to breed a bitch from and the latest you can register a litter from a bitch
you might want to get ready for a glut of rescue dogs as the bubble for breeding dogs is about to burst and them unscrupulous breeders who use dogs for big profit will be turning to something else
as for travellers stealing dogs to breed you will find that they prefer to steal them for ransom as its far more profitable
That rather depends on the breed Rob ... I'm more than aware of the practices of dog theft,An unspayed working dog will be bred before it is (if it is at all)ransomed,it will in all probability be returned (if it is) grossly undernourished and traumatised , with all the health problems that follow
as for neutering dogs we spoke with our vet last night a dog should not be neutered before its full mature as is widely believed it will not only not mature. also she mentions that early research is showing that it could also stunt a dogs bone growth in areas like the head which is one slowest development area's of a maturing dog
Did she at any stage advise you not to neuter your dog ?? I doubt it
running off when the doors left open then just as many dogs will (spayed or unspayed) run out of an open door so surely it would be money better invested in micro chipping and an auto door shut than spaying or neutering if your worried you might leave a door or gate open dunno

A chip is only of any value if the dog is found and handed in,they are easily wiped and rendered totally useless ... I do agree all dogs should be chipped but don't labour under the idea that they guarantee your dogs return .. they are also easily removed,all you need is a reasonably sharp knife
spaying or neutering its no different its done by people for people as we keep a domesticated wild animal as a pet
what about the rubbish that people feed their dogs
shit like bakers or pedigree chum how many responsible owners actually feed their dogs a decent balanced dog meal very few id wager
as most healthy foods for dogs are expensive
i could not start to explain just how corrupt and morally unjust the dog breeding fraternity is and just what lenghts they go to, i could show you 9 different crufts entered stud dogs with the very same health certificate signed by the same vet in redhill with all the same boxes ticked to say the dogs been DNA tested and healthy for breeding when its obvious the dog has been no where near the vet lets face it why travel 300 miles to a vet for a health test when you get this at any vet round the corner
there is very big money in dog breeding far more mutilation goes on than tail docking with much more sinister reasoning
I couldn't agree more, you are not alone in you disapproval of the KC, I'm not keen on the whole concept of pedigree breeding at all ... it is long past time that the good old fashioned healthy mid-sized mongrel made a come back
its my opinion that owners of working field dogs believe that docking the tail is for the benefit of the dog against potential damage and should be allowed
the very same reason that you believe that spaying will protect your bitch against being stolen and breed to death
sad fact is they will steal your dog and not know its spayed, when it doesn't come into season it will be left to starve or turned loose to roam and get run over the chances of you getting that dog back or not stolen because it is spayed are the same as bluesgetting a tail injury!! but both are done for the same reason . you believe its best for the dog ??
And here's where you're wrong.. the chances of you getting an unspayed bitch or unneutered dog back are far less than that of you getting their sterilised counterparts back,they have you see a value above and beyond their own ... it is the difference between finding a £50 note and finding a machine that makes £50 and it is btw rarely a matter of waiting for a bitch to come into season most spayed bitches have a visible scar from the process not always easily visible but detectable non the less

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
Every day of the week I hear this ... I've seen dogs stolen from breeders,kennels,houses ... all from people who would never lose their dog who love their dogs,I've seen dogs of all breeds 'just not come back' even those highly trained prize winning gun dogs,and well 'they've never done it before' , I've seen dogs of owners who know all this go missing.
If you you think YOUR dog will never run off, you are a fool and need to be a little more honest with yourself about the nature of dogs... they will and often do get distracted keep chasing that rabbit or whatever and get lost,no matter how well trained you think your dog, this happens.. you are not a better trainer than the owners of these dogs you are just luckier.
Dogs of all breeds are stolen everyday and are never returned to their owners... you are not a better more responsible owner than these people, you're just luckier.
Try phoning the police about your lost or stolen dog ... as a priority it will rank right up there with spitting in the a lost or stolen dog is labour intensive and to most people other than the owner pointless
P.S. I forgot to mention those dogs stolen found to be incapable of breeding and subsequently used as bait dogs to train fighting dogs .... they're not pretty to look at I promise you

17 Apr 2012

Star you want evidence ?? here you go knock yourself out .....

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB

Star you want evidence ?? here you go knock yourself out .....

cheers staggers.
no need to knock myself out staggers, i asked you to provide proof and you have ( of sorts ).
what a wonderful thing the internet is though, put in a search for eating dog poo and up it comes.

see what i mean? all rubbish but there you are. facts are not always what they seem.

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Try phoning the police about your lost or stolen dog ... as a priority it will rank right up there with spitting in the a lost or stolen dog is labour intensive and to most people other than the owner pointless

Actually, spitting in the street is being regarded as quite serious...

17 Apr 2012

Quote by GnV
Try phoning the police about your lost or stolen dog ... as a priority it will rank right up there with spitting in the a lost or stolen dog is labour intensive and to most people other than the owner pointless

Actually, spitting in the street is being regarded as quite serious...

And of course the police are fully prepared to invest the manpower required to investigate all reports of street expectoration aren't they G
Well it would seem you and Star have one thing in common .... you start talking shit when you realise you're wrong,I'd suggest a dignified silence in future it looks better don't you know

17 Apr 2012

Quote by GnV
Actually, spitting in the street is being regarded as quite serious...

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
And of course the police are fully prepared to invest the manpower required to investigate all reports of street expectoration aren't they G

yee of little faith staggers rolleyes

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Well it would seem you and Star have one thing in common .... you start talking shit when you realise you're wrong,I'd suggest a dignified silence in future it looks better don't you know

tut tut mr staggers.
if a dignified silence was called for every time you said something a bit, how shall we say, ridiculous, you would have been silent from September 2007

:rotflmao:
there have been very many valid points made in this thread, and all the things you have said about tail docking i agree with :thumbup:, but frankly a lot of the rest you come up with is just frankly a bit of nonsense staggers.
you have lost what was a good debate until bluefish made a few very logical points. why can you just never accept that you are wrong, and end the debate with a nice apology. dunno

go on try it. it is very good for the soul. :jagsatwork:

17 Apr 2012

If every gun dog owner had there dog spayed we would not be able to breed gun-dogs.
I am well aware of all the dangers of dogs being stolen. I was born in the countryside, grew up there with dogs and animals all with the potential of being stolen Staggs. Dogs have always been a target for theft just as many other things are. We have to live with these kinds of thing and do what we can to a point to protect our selves.
I was at an event last weekend, any one with an eye on stealing dogs will have been there, and I suspect there probably was, what should I do, not take her out of the house?

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Try phoning the police about your lost or stolen dog ... as a priority it will rank right up there with spitting in the a lost or stolen dog is labour intensive and to most people other than the owner pointless

Actually, spitting in the street is being regarded as quite serious...

And of course the police are fully prepared to invest the manpower required to investigate all reports of street expectoration aren't they G
Well it would seem you and Star have one thing in common .... you start talking shit when you realise you're wrong,I'd suggest a dignified silence in future it looks better don't you know
If I wish to respond, I will and will not be silenced by inappropriate personal attacks. You should learn some manners Staggs.

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
P.S. I forgot to mention those dogs stolen found to be incapable of breeding and subsequently used as bait dogs to train fighting dogs .... they're not pretty to look at I promise you

So, if stolen, a dog would be better off having not been spayed dunno

Better chance of servival if your a breeding machine than a bait dog I would hazard?

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009

P.S. I forgot to mention those dogs stolen found to be incapable of breeding and subsequently used as bait dogs to train fighting dogs .... they're not pretty to look at I promise you

So, if stolen, a dog would be better off having not been spayed dunno

Better chance of servival if your a breeding machine than a bait dog I would hazard?
It would Blue be better off dead ... this is usually what happens to bait dogs ... much as those foxes you insist have a brief and merciful death ... a breeding bitch suffers for far longer.. take your pick

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB

P.S. I forgot to mention those dogs stolen found to be incapable of breeding and subsequently used as bait dogs to train fighting dogs .... they're not pretty to look at I promise you

So, if stolen, a dog would be better off having not been spayed dunno

Better chance of servival if your a breeding machine than a bait dog I would hazard?
It would Blue be better off dead ... this is usually what happens to bait dogs ... much as those foxes you insist have a brief and merciful death ... a breeding bitch suffers for far longer.. take your pick
I thought, and correct me if I am wrong, that you were promoting the spaying of a bitch as its savoir?

17 Apr 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
but frankly a lot of the rest you come up with is just frankly a bit of nonsense staggers.

Oh well there you go I must obviously accept you as the authority on the subject.
See the thing is I accept that Blue has some knowledge of the problems of dog ownership ... he is wrong about tail docking and whatever he may think he knows about dog theft is probably wrong too but I am/was prepared to debate the issue with knowledge of dog theft and the mistreatment of stolen dogs is not just gleaned from links on websites but from devoting my time and money to helping them,should you wish to do the same Star you will I assure you soon find that nothing that I have written is nonsense.

Quote by Bluefish2009
If every gun dog owner had there dog spayed we would not be able to breed gun-dogs.

And that would not necessarily be a bad thing Blue .. they are unecessary if you want a dog do ALL dogs a favour and get yourself a rescue or a mongrel. A rescue will have been neutered and will not breed any more genetic weaknesses into the species and a mongrel will generally not possess any of those weaknesses in the first place

Quote by GnV
If I wish to respond, I will and will not be silenced by inappropriate personal attacks. You should learn some manners Staggs.

Don't play the wounded soul G it doesn't suit you .... you had a bit of a dig and attempted to trivialise my point,I had one back... I have no need of lectures about manners thank is a topic quite close to my heart if you'd had any manners or sensitivity you would have realised that and not tried to trivialise it ... and star if you want proof of that come and meet my bitch and spend a couple of hours counting the scars that cover her body ,we're not sure what they are but they do look remarkably like cigarette burns.

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009

P.S. I forgot to mention those dogs stolen found to be incapable of breeding and subsequently used as bait dogs to train fighting dogs .... they're not pretty to look at I promise you

So, if stolen, a dog would be better off having not been spayed dunno

Better chance of servival if your a breeding machine than a bait dog I would hazard?
It would Blue be better off dead ... this is usually what happens to bait dogs ... much as those foxes you insist have a brief and merciful death ... a breeding bitch suffers for far longer.. take your pick
I thought, and correct me if I am wrong, that you were promoting the spaying of a bitch as its savoir?
A spayed bitch under the two circumstances you outline Blue would quite possibly suffer less
I am now done with this it is beginning to leave my temper frayed and I will not waste my time with those of you attempting to point score on a topic this close to me
I hope the dogs that belong to any of you never have cause to suffer from your ignorance

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
and star if you want proof of that come and meet my bitch and spend a couple of hours counting the scars that cover her body ,we're not sure what they are but they do look remarkably like cigarette burns.

what pub would you suggest then staggers? lol

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB

P.S. I forgot to mention those dogs stolen found to be incapable of breeding and subsequently used as bait dogs to train fighting dogs .... they're not pretty to look at I promise you

So, if stolen, a dog would be better off having not been spayed dunno

Better chance of servival if your a breeding machine than a bait dog I would hazard?
It would Blue be better off dead ... this is usually what happens to bait dogs ... much as those foxes you insist have a brief and merciful death ... a breeding bitch suffers for far longer.. take your pick
I thought, and correct me if I am wrong, that you were promoting the spaying of a bitch as its savoir?
A spayed bitch under the two circumstances you outline Blue would quite possibly suffer less
I am now done with this it is beginning to leave my temper frayed and I will not waste my time with those of you attempting to point score on a topic this close to me
I hope the dogs that belong to any of you never have cause to suffer from your ignorance
My intention has not and is not to anger you, or fray your temper
I do debate many subjects that are not just close to me, but part of my life. Shooting and hunting, for one, I have even been called sick and worse. Tail docking of my dog is a subject I feel equally passionate about as you do on rescue dog.
To clarify my position one last time before you walk away, I believe we all learn many things as we make our way through life. Tail docking is one such thing. As mentioned earlier in the thread I wanted my first spaniel to have a tail against the advise of my Grandfather. I had read and heard tail docking was not required. So I got my puppy with its tail, sadly when she started working she injured it time and again, causing her great pain and stress. In the end it had to be removed in an operation. I vowed never to cause such pain to one of my dogs again.
I equally hope that I and others here do not suffer a theft of any of our possessions, pets or working companions.

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009
So I got my puppy with its tail, sadly when she started working she injured it time and again, causing her great pain and stress. In the end it had to be removed in an operation. I vowed never to cause such pain to one of my dogs again.

blue as an aside, can you confirm the highlighted bit to me please.
in other words your dog gets injured " working ". what is the work your dog does to get its tail injured so often. as i have had many a big dog and never had the need to have its tail docked. my dogs have never injured there tails either.

17 Apr 2012

Quote by starlightcouple

So I got my puppy with its tail, sadly when she started working she injured it time and again, causing her great pain and stress. In the end it had to be removed in an operation. I vowed never to cause such pain to one of my dogs again.

blue as an aside, can you confirm the highlighted bit to me please.
in other words your dog gets injured " working ". what is the work your dog does to get its tail injured so often. as i have had many a big dog and never had the need to have its tail docked. my dogs have never injured there tails either.
It's a hard life on the streets star, he's been workin his bitch really hard but she ain't pullin the punters no more :lol2:

17 Apr 2012

Quote by GnV
It's a hard life on the streets star, he's been workin his bitch really hard but she ain't pullin the punters no more :lol2:

well i hope she has been " done ", as dont want her running away now, or perish the thought being stolen by men in white vans. :rascal:

17 Apr 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
Every day of the week I hear this ... I've seen dogs stolen from breeders,kennels,houses ... all from people who would never lose their dog who love their dogs,I've seen dogs of all breeds 'just not come back' even those highly trained prize winning gun dogs,and well 'they've never done it before' , I've seen dogs of owners who know all this go missing.
If you you think YOUR dog will never run off, you are a fool spayed or not and need to be a little more honest with yourself about the nature of dogs... they will and often do get distracted keep chasing that rabbit or whatever and get lost,no matter how well trained you think your dog, this happens.. you are not a better trainer than the owners of these dogs you are just luckier.
Dogs of all breeds are stolen everyday and are never returned to their owners... you are not a better more responsible owner than these people, you're just luckier.
Try phoning the police about your lost or stolen dog ... as a priority it will rank right up there with spitting in the a lost or stolen dog is labour intensive and to most people other than the owner pointless
you wrote this
And here's where you're wrong.. the chances of you getting an unspayed bitch or unneutered dog back are far less than that of you getting their sterilised counterparts back,they have you see a value above and beyond their own ... it is the difference between finding a £50 note and finding a machine that makes £50 and it is btw rarely a matter of waiting for a bitch to come into season most spayed bitches have a visible scar from the process not always easily visible but detectable non the less
then wrote this

P.S. I forgot to mention those dogs stolen found to be incapable of breeding and subsequently used as bait dogs to train fighting dogs .... they're not pretty to look at I promise you

so i wont get my spayed dog back then
and its death by breeding or by being baited as i pointed out then doesn't make a difference to spaying a dog or not the outcome is going to be the same a horrible death
sod it wheres blue i want me tail cut off seems the safer option bolt

17 Apr 2012

Quote by starlightcouple

So I got my puppy with its tail, sadly when she started working she injured it time and again, causing her great pain and stress. In the end it had to be removed in an operation. I vowed never to cause such pain to one of my dogs again.

blue as an aside, can you confirm the highlighted bit to me please.
in other words your dog gets injured " working ". what is the work your dog does to get its tail injured so often. as i have had many a big dog and never had the need to have its tail docked. my dogs have never injured there tails either.
The work is to flush game which can be shot by others with a gun. The problem is with the tail and rear end action of spaniels, they are so busy and have very wagging tails. Most problems arise when working the dog through thick cover, this can be hedges, gorse or very thick bramble.
Here are some videos which may demonstrate the cockers speed and enthusiasm for its work so you can perhaps see how it can injure its tail. Every dog in these videos has had its tail docked. only the last third is docked as this is the part which seams most susceptible to damage. Many do not even realise the tails have been shortened.
The thing to remember is these dogs continue to work in this manner in very tight cover of which they can barley squeeze through. Watch the tail action

field trial winner
Here is how a dog is taught how to flush a rabbit but not to chase it, in a rabbit pen

And ben the springer