I am a believer in free speech but it obviously only goes so far.
A march or a demonstration should be as peaceful as possible, and not intended to provoke or cause outrage.
So should this be banned?
I believe just like Wootton Bassett and the Islamic group that wanted to march there, this is doing exactly the same thing...marching through Bradford which is predominantly Muslim, will only cause to incite trouble as that surely is the major aim?
Just like the G20 marches which were bound to cause trouble, as so many there were just hell bent on causing trouble, this group from the far right have exactly the same agendas.
It is a no brainer for me, that this march should be banned, not because of who they are, but where they are planning to march.
So should free speech extend to marches such as this, or is the intent to cause trouble a good enough reason to ban not only this march, but any future ones from any political persuasion?
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Ban this?
Sex God
let them march......let them riot
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
let them march......let them riot
On this rare occasion, I'm with Ben and Staggs!!! :eeek:
Sex God
Kent, I despise the EDL and their ilk with every fibre in my being, because I believe them to be fascists, and neither their words nor their actions have so far managed to convince me otherwise, and being somewhat opposed to fascism in whatever guise it chooses to wear I have to extend my belief in the right to free speech, the right to free association, the right to collective action, and peaceful protest even to them.
'A march' cannot incite violence in and of itself. Only the individuals on it, and those who react against it can do that, and we have enough laws in place to deal with those who choose to commit offences along the lines of breach of the peace, violent disorder, incitement to violence / racial hatred, etc, etc, etc so long as they're properly policed and properly dealt with. Thing is, when the police put in a request for a march to banned, what they're basically saying is 'we're not sure how we're gonna police this one, so let's be on the safe side, eh', but that's a policing issue, and police will always try to ban things they can't police very well. That's not a good reason to start eroding fundamental liberties though?
N x x x ;)
'A march' cannot incite violence in and of itself. Only the individuals on it, and those who react against it can do that, and we have enough laws in place to deal with those who choose to commit offences along the lines of breach of the peace, violent disorder, incitement to violence / racial hatred, etc, etc, etc so long as they're properly policed and properly dealt with. Thing is, when the police put in a request for a march to banned, what they're basically saying is 'we're not sure how we're gonna police this one, so let's be on the safe side, eh', but that's a policing issue, and police will always try to ban things they can't police very well. That's not a good reason to start eroding fundamental liberties though?
N x x x ;)
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
let them march......let them riot
On this rare occasion, I'm with Ben and Staggs!!! :eeek:
Bloody hell Blue, that sounds like a Benny comment.:giggle:
I know
In my view it would be wrong to ban any march what so ever. The minuet we start choosing which marches will be aloud to go ahead it will be a very sad day in deed
It's nothing to do with curbing free speech, it is about the safety of those involved, be they marchers, spectators, people who live along the route and the police themselves.
Yes, let them march, but only where the safety of all involved is not compromised. If that means an alternative route, what's wrong with that? If you're driving along a motorway and you have to divert off because of a problem ahead, is that eroding your right to free speech? I don't think so, just using common sense.
Mal
Yes, let them march, but only where the safety of all involved is not compromised. If that means an alternative route, what's wrong with that? If you're driving along a motorway and you have to divert off because of a problem ahead, is that eroding your right to free speech? I don't think so, just using common sense.
Mal
Orgasminator
Quote by neilinleeds
Kent, I despise the EDL and their ilk with every fibre in my being, because I believe them to be fascists, and neither their words nor their actions have so far managed to convince me otherwise, and being somewhat opposed to fascism in whatever guise it chooses to wear I have to extend my belief in the right to free speech, the right to free association, the right to collective action, and peaceful protest even to them.
'A march' cannot incite violence in and of itself. Only the individuals on it, and those who react against it can do that, and we have enough laws in place to deal with those who choose to commit offences along the lines of breach of the peace, violent disorder, incitement to violence / racial hatred, etc, etc, etc so long as they're properly policed and properly dealt with. Thing is, when the police put in a request for a march to banned, what they're basically saying is 'we're not sure how we're gonna police this one, so let's be on the safe side, eh', but that's a policing issue, and police will always try to ban things they can't police very well. That's not a good reason to start eroding fundamental liberties though?
N x x x ;)
Agree 100%
You can't ban something because of what MIGHT happen, even if its likely to happen it still hasn't. And if one gets banned other things may well be deemed unsafe to allow too. Thin end of the wedge if it is.
Once again we will have a situation where on the one side with be the Muslim's and the far right haters ( Uni drops out usually }and on the other side far right nutters hell bent on trouble.
In the middle will be poor pc plod, trying to keep the two factions apart. When they succeed in doing that, that is when everyone's fury will be targeted towards the police....as usual. Then when poor plod lashes out at a demonstrator in the heat of the moment, it will be that copper who will face either the sack or court.
This march serves no purpose at all other than to incite violence, exactly the same as the G20 protests. Aggro is going to happen....members of the public will be at risk...shopkeepers will have to pick up the tab of broken windows and no doubt looting, for what?
I am an advocate of free speech, but only when it does not incite violence like the march surely will, and for the far right it is their only aim.
On this occasion to have a march by a right wing group in Bradford, is putting the police under massive scrutiny, with a no win situation for them. Is it any wonder they want it banned ffs?
IF they want to demonstrate then do it somewhere other than where there is a huge Muslim population, it will only further incite hatred towards them and serves no purpose at all that I can see.
In the middle will be poor pc plod, trying to keep the two factions apart. When they succeed in doing that, that is when everyone's fury will be targeted towards the police....as usual. Then when poor plod lashes out at a demonstrator in the heat of the moment, it will be that copper who will face either the sack or court.
This march serves no purpose at all other than to incite violence, exactly the same as the G20 protests. Aggro is going to happen....members of the public will be at risk...shopkeepers will have to pick up the tab of broken windows and no doubt looting, for what?
I am an advocate of free speech, but only when it does not incite violence like the march surely will, and for the far right it is their only aim.
On this occasion to have a march by a right wing group in Bradford, is putting the police under massive scrutiny, with a no win situation for them. Is it any wonder they want it banned ffs?
IF they want to demonstrate then do it somewhere other than where there is a huge Muslim population, it will only further incite hatred towards them and serves no purpose at all that I can see.
Sex God
I would suggest a little self regulation should be allowed here .....I see no reason for police intervention I'm sure the good sensible northern folk of Bradford know just the response EDL should receive
Bradford is a melting pot of tension.
The indigenous Brits who live there have stated it will only take a spark to ignite the flames. Remember Bradford and Oldham have had their fair share of problems.
Someone who I know went to Bradford last year and said it was like Afghanistan but with better houses.
The immigrant population there is huge, and that is exactly the reason the far right have chosen that area.
Allow the march and reap the dire consequences.
The indigenous Brits who live there have stated it will only take a spark to ignite the flames. Remember Bradford and Oldham have had their fair share of problems.
Someone who I know went to Bradford last year and said it was like Afghanistan but with better houses.
The immigrant population there is huge, and that is exactly the reason the far right have chosen that area.
Allow the march and reap the dire consequences.
Sex God
I have been to Bradford .....several times
Sex God
Almost exactly like Afghanistan, innit Staggers? 
Christ on a bike! WTF? 
N x x x ;)
Christ on a bike! WTF? N x x x ;)
Sex God
I hear Kabul's museum of film and photography is a little different...but you know different culture and all
Or is that Kabuls'
Or is that Kabuls'
Sex God
I can see where at time similarities could be drawn
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
I can see where at time similarities could be drawn
There you go a nice warm northern welcome for all fascists
:loon: Sex God
Quote by Ben_welshminx
There is a specific similarity Kabul is home to the the Kabul & Helmund building society. I rememebr their TV abverts "After you Mr Kabul ---no after you Mt Helmand"
Turbans and umbrellas ??
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I have been to Bradford .....several times
I have fond memories of Bradford.
A game of cricket in the evening after work, then supper with the lads....
What could be more English?
Ok, so it was a very nice curry supper, washed down with water not beer, and the majority of the players were Asian, but this is England, our England, and it's a nicer, kinder more decent place than the kind of England the EDL want, a place where how you behave and how you speak to people is more important than the colour of anyone's skin.
Cable Street is also part of my England, and if the people of Bradford follow that example I can only applaud their adopting some very English, very decent, and very effective traditions.
Sex God
Quote by awayman
Cable Street is also part of my England, and if the people of Bradford follow that example I can only applaud their adopting some very English, very decent, and very effective traditions.
Cable Street style confrontation has its place, but when the EDL are intent on a bit of a ruckus of a saturday afternoon I'd be wary of giving them a propaganda win by way of an own goal. Besides, I wouldn't want the fuckwits to think anyone really takes them all that seriously? I think there are subtler weapons than well directed boots and fists available, and I like to call my preferred weapon of choice 'complete and utter indifference'.
The one thing guaranteed to piss them right off would be the sight of the people of Bradford going about their daily business with not so much as a backward glance at 'em. They'd hate that, cos they'd end up looking just as stupid as they really are! Groups like them are only as good as their last headline, and 'EDL protest in Bradford, noone really gives a flying fuck' ain't gonna make page one of the red-tops, let alone next week's chip paper.
N x x x ;)
Sex God
Quote by neilinleeds
Cable Street is also part of my England, and if the people of Bradford follow that example I can only applaud their adopting some very English, very decent, and very effective traditions.
Cable Street style confrontation has its place, but when the EDL are intent on a bit of a ruckus of a saturday afternoon I'd be wary of giving them a propaganda win by way of an own goal. Besides, I wouldn't want the fuckwits to think anyone really takes them all that seriously? I think there are subtler weapons than well directed boots and fists available, and I like to call my preferred weapon of choice 'complete and utter indifference'.
The one thing guaranteed to piss them right off would be the sight of the people of Bradford going about their daily business with not so much as a backward glance at 'em. They'd hate that, cos they'd end up looking just as stupid as they really are! Groups like them are only as good as their last headline, and 'EDL protest in Bradford, noone really gives a flying fuck' ain't gonna make page one of the red-tops, let alone next week's chip paper.
N x x x ;)
:thumbup:
Quote by neilinleeds
Cable Street is also part of my England, and if the people of Bradford follow that example I can only applaud their adopting some very English, very decent, and very effective traditions.
Cable Street style confrontation has its place, but when the EDL are intent on a bit of a ruckus of a saturday afternoon I'd be wary of giving them a propaganda win by way of an own goal. Besides, I wouldn't want the fuckwits to think anyone really takes them all that seriously? I think there are subtler weapons than well directed boots and fists available, and I like to call my preferred weapon of choice 'complete and utter indifference'.
The one thing guaranteed to piss them right off would be the sight of the people of Bradford going about their daily business with not so much as a backward glance at 'em. They'd hate that, cos they'd end up looking just as stupid as they really are! Groups like them are only as good as their last headline, and 'EDL protest in Bradford, noone really gives a flying fuck' ain't gonna make page one of the red-tops, let alone next week's chip paper.
N x x x ;)
I take your point Neil, and I haven't booked my bus ticket for Bradford, but....
One of the things that broke the heart of the NF and the BNP in the 70s and 80s was that they couldn't even deliver on the core Nazi tactic of winning the battle of the streets. The same thing broke Mosley's heart too (and I include both the Fascist Mosley's in that). Whenever I discussed this with my mates from the squad the message was clear - the intent was to sicken the Nazis and make sure that even that core idea, that they were the tough guys, wasn't available to them. To quote my mate Davey, it's hard to believe you're a member of the master race when you've pissed your pants and you don't know which way to run.
Like you, I hope there's no violence. But if there is, I know which side I'm cheering for, and I hope they send the right message with extreme prejudice.
Sex God
Quote by awayman
To quote my mate Davey, it's hard to believe you're a member of the master race when you've pissed your pants and you don't know which way to run.
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:When you put it like that, well yeah, quite.
Quote by awayman
Like you, I hope there's no violence. But if there is, I know which side I'm cheering for, and I hope they send the right message with extreme prejudice.
You'll get no argument from me on that one?
I dislike the idea that you sometimes have to use the enemy's tactics against them, or otherwise descend to their level, but I accept absolutely that sometimes violence is justified. I'm just not sure that a load of thick, football-hooligan twunts who can't get away with a carry-on at matches anymore really warrants that kind of response just yet. I'm perhaps naively imagining that the political aims of most of their members extends only so far as their G-d given right to indulge in a bit of a do for most of 'em, and I'm still tending towards the 'give 'em enough rope, and let people see them for what they really are' side at the minute? ;)
N x x x ;)
