I was shocked this morning! Oh yes sirs and siresses I was so much so that I thoughyt i'd ask, but how?
OK to start. I'm a white working class married straight bloke with a lovely wife and three mostly tolerable children. I attended today an event/presentation regarding an organisation i'm getting involved with where there were possibly 60 others at this event. What occured.
A group of 11 people were sat together at a table who were obviously familiar with each other and when they arrived they all greeted each other loudly and in a really friendly fashion. Lovely, all is good other than the language they were using to address each other. All I can say is that if it had been myself greeting anyone in this manner I would of been at the very least ejected from the building and more likely reported. I can't express the language and to a degree the volume these friendly cheerful people were using it was shocking.
Now I spend some of my time as a parent making sure that my kids are taught how to and not to address people what is wrong and what is right. Its what I believe and how I expect myself to behave without even a thought to behaving in the manner I heard today.
Is it OK for say homosexual people to call each other derogatory names "in house" so to speak? The same with people of a different colour or culture when addressing others of the same ilk? Grief I'm not even sure if i've said that in a good way.
At this presentation I went to I didn't know where to put myself. Should I of asked them to stop what I consider to be hateful and wholly innappropriate language. Should I of approached the organisers or should I have done nothing, which I is what i did, now wondering if i did the wrong thing.
Is it OK for people to be openly derogatory if they are themselves the object of such derisory language and if so is that quite right?
Oh this is all jumbled and muddled for fear of typing something and incidentally being assessed as an 'ist' of some sort because I sure as hell try my best not to be and what i heard today was just so unnatural to hear. I'd just like to know the rules.
the thing is Lost, with friends, especially good friends ther4e is always that familiarity that 'allows' such exchanges of banter like you describe.
Its only when other people hear that they think :shock: OMG
for instance my mate is gay....i often refer to her as lezza, lesbo, gobby ginger minge, psycho ..and so on....she calls me mad bitch (cos Im on so many anti depressants) loony tunes and alsorts....we know we dont mean it, but to others over hearing it it may be unpalatable.
I would never dream of addressing anyone i didnt know by any of those words.
When we got reposessed, we moved into a friends house, lock stock and 4 kids.......Mr Bone and I have a banter and often call each other names.....I call him a fat baldy bastard and he'll cal me a skanky rabid badger (if I havent dyed the white stripe out of my hair).....mate we moved in with was horrified we spoke to each other in this way, and took it as a sign of a lack of respect.
we explained its a sign of complete familiarity and trust. It doewsnt make us 'ist ' at all.
Best example of all is Mr B's elder brother suffers from severe cerebral palsy, and 2 of his legs and one arm dont work and are considerably smaller than they should be. Hes in a wheel chair, hes mentally all there tho and can speak normally.
Mr Bone has grown up around it and its completely normal to him....and as brothers do, they banter and insult each other and name call......he will often say to his brother
"stop being such a lazy bastard and get off your arse and find a job"
"Just cos youre in a wheelchair, dont think you can be a lazy fucker"
"Just because half of ya doesnt work, doesnt mean I wont smack ya round the head"
'fuck me a dead tortoise would move faster!!"
and a gazillion other 'sterling Moss' 'snails pace', gammy handed comments.
People over hearing him would be alamost apoplectic with shame, embarrasment, horror and outrage, demanding he apologise and that she shouldnt be allowed to say those things! Hes not ist about people with disabilities.....hes being a normal brother...
these days we are so programmed to think that an apparent sleight on someone with a name calling is soooooo abhorrent, our common sense just flies out the window and we are outraged if we hear it spoken outloud by anyone.
how many of us got called specky four eyes, roly, matchstick, stringbean and so on by our mates....did it make the skies fall from the heaven, did the police come round and arrest you....did a whole nation of spec wearers get on their high horse and demand apologies......or did anyone REALLY care a flying fig about it??
these days people are scared of their own shadows, so to hear people being open and relaxed about what have been drilled into us as 'bad words' or insults, or unacceptable ways of referring to people now embarasses us and makes us uncomfortable.......which I think is very sad.
hope this makes sense.......it did in my head!!
I have gay friends who refer to themselves as faggots, queens, queers, puffs etc etc etc. The terminology is widespread among their circle of gay friends. My close gay friend refers to me as "trollop" or "tart"- I might occasionally make a joke along the lines of "have you bent over forwards to help anyone today?" or "get on with it you bloody mincer."
It's not an issue because I clearly have no issue with his sexuality.
I have black friends who use the "N" word to describe themselves when they're with peers. I can't say I'm keen- and you won't hear me say it. However, it's their choice. If it makes me uncomfortable to hear it thats my problem- not theirs.
It's the intent, not the word that makes it "ist."
It depends on the situation.
From what you describe I think the behaviour you witnessed was wholly inappropriate.
That said folk can call each other whatever they like in private.
Its always hard to stand up and be counted in such situations so don't beat yourself up about that.
I have to admit I've never thought people have much of a leg to stand on if they object to someone calling them a known derogatory name, if the person has just heard them use the word themselves. Claiming, he's 'one of us' so it's ok doesn't really wash.
We can only be expected to be treated with the respect we show others and show ourselves.
In reading some of the other replies, i will add to my original post that if my kids were with me, i would have (I say I but I mean Mr B cos i hate confrontation of any kind) would have had a word and asked them to quiet down/curb their language.
Then probs has a discussion with the older ones about why people act like they do.
Other than that, if it has just been me, id have let them get on with it.....and probably been more concerned with their loudness and lack of consideration for other people around them, rather than what they were saying.
I think there have been lots of good examples posted already that really show that it's about context and the intent behind what's being said.
Having said that, an individual response to a given sitation is just that - individual. What's acceptable to one person may not be acceptable to another, whether they're on the receiving end or are simply overhearing it being exchanged by others.
If someone says they're offended or upset (by something you say to them or something they hear you say to someone else), it's courtesy to take this onboard - not argue the toss whether they should be offended/upset. Most reasonable people will happily explain the context, adjust their behaviour where appropriate and move on. I don't see this as being anything to do with the "PC brigade" - it's just common courtesy and showing other people that their feelings are being taken into account.
It was the worst day of my working life. I was the only one in the whole office being laid off - cos I hadn't been there for the full 2 years. The worst thing was, I couldn't get a job - even temp work - for 8 months and we ran out of money. We had no savings anyway, the car was on a loan and we were renting the house so couldn't even sell up.
My Mum brought a chicken and a Christmas pud or we wouldn't have had a christmas dinner that year.
I wasn't self-pitying about it, but it was a time I wouldn't wish on (hardly) anyone.
I will take a wild guess that my son at 15 swears. I don't have to condone it and I needed to back up how I have brought him up with regards to language:- 'there is no such thing as bad language, there are people that will judge you and think less of you for using words they dislike. You can choose how you are perceived by the words you use.'
