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Censorship

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Quote by Jonathon Green
The populist authoritarianism that is the downside of political correctness means that anyone, sometimes it seems like everyone, can proclaim their grief and have it acknowledged. The victim culture, every sufferer grasping for their own Holocaust, ensures that anyone who feels offended can call for moderation, for dilution, and in the end, as is all too often the case, for censorship. And censorship, that by-product of fear - stemming as it does not from some positive agenda, but from the desire to escape our own terrors and superstitions by imposing them on others - must surely be resisted. ~Jonathon Green
with acknowledgements to vampanya

Should censorship be resisted and at what cost?
I hate censorship. I'm a grown up. I can make up my own mind about issues. And when the backbiting starts I can make up my own mind who I think is out of order too. I might not always be right but I have that luxury.
I agree vamps.. as Mark Twain said, famously quoted by Churchill "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
The same must surely apply to writings....
Are we right in saying there are Bullies here?
I have been the victim of bullies in my teens whereby I was actually punched, kicked by a group of girls at school, I could not get away. On here we are all adults or at least should be that can make a more informed choice, if we feel intimated by another we don’t need to start of retaliate to that person, we have choices close down or ignore. I have found to ignore works a treat, intimidation only works on responses.
But then I realise that I am not that scared child anymore I am an adult that can control a situation myself in the best way I feel it should be dealt with.
We need sometimes to look at ourselves and use some of the wisdom and common sense that comes from adulthood and stop relying on other to make decisions for us.
I do get frustrated and annoyed that the word bully can sometimes feel so undermined and so commonly used. Both here and in society in general.
BTW I believe in freedom of speech we might not always like what is said but we have a choose to ignore it.
You can't make people get on. You can avoid confrontation on a forum though. Very easily. Minx is right, everyone can chose to respond to or ignore anything they see as provokation.
You might think censorship is fine until it's your veiws that are being censored.
I think the answer here lies with self restraint.
Quote by Kaznkev
Are we right in saying there are Bullies here?
I have been the victim of bullies in my teens whereby I was actually punched, kicked by a group of girls at school, I could not get away. On here we are all adults or at least should be that can make a more informed choice, if we feel intimated by another we don’t need to start of retaliate to that person, we have choices close down or ignore. I have found to ignore works a treat, intimidation only works on responses.

But then I realise that I am not that scared child anymore I am an adult that can control a situation myself in the best way I feel it should be dealt with.
We need sometimes to look at ourselves and use some of the wisdom and common sense that comes from adulthood and stop relying on other to make decisions for us.
I do get frustrated and annoyed that the word bully can sometimes feel so undermined and so commonly used. Both here and in society in general.
BTW I believe in freedom of speech we might not always like what is said but we have a choose to ignore it.

Very well said minxy,it has taken me a long time to realise bullies only win when you give them the chance to show you are hurting. As a child i could not just ignore bullying as an an adult i am learning to walk away from the keyboard,simple advice,but it works!
Reguarding the cut thread,i dont see it as censorship,simply the mods trying to keep a topic on who posts here does so on the understanding that the mods say is final.
If people are concerned about censorship the captitulation of google to the chinese or this countries mad porn laws are surely far more worth getting concerned about.
Kaz I agree with you there are far more concerns about censorship in these areas, the removal of posts and closer of threads seems so petty in comparison for these reasons.
I totally agree with censorship. I do not want to see racist remarks ... Homophobic remarks .... etc etc.... Almost every thread in here nowadays gets down to personal name calling and insults. I have got to the situation where I actually think we would be better to close down the Current Affairs forum altogether !! It is now the same 7/8 people that contribute everytime....we all know what they are basically gona say. Come on..we all know who is going to say flog them, and hang them high. We all know who will come up with a conspiricy theory and blame the banks.....Its just become predictable and boring. Others and certainly new members are scared to comment as they see the quite personal attacks that go on in here. Self regulation has failed....the people concerned have no one else but themselves to blame....close it !!!
Quote by deancannock
with apologies to dean for chopping out some of his impassioned plea..
Others and certainly new members are scared to comment as they see the quite personal attacks that go on in here. Self regulation has failed....the people concerned have no one else but themselves to blame....close it !!!

I don't think I've ever seen a new member suffer a personal attack in the way that dean suggests is the norm and I have said elsewhere in these forums, they should not post in fear of reprisals.
If that were the case, perhaps being one of the gang of 7 he refers to, I would find such behaviour unacceptable and would certainly make my views known to the culprit either through pm or more publicly in the thread.
Everyone should expect to be challenged on their view or asked to elucidate or articulate their view more clearly and that is quite right and proper.
Sometimes, punctuating a thread with a bit of harmless humour (such as was the case this morning on another thread, parts of which were removed) lightens the load and can encourage further debate.
Quote by deancannock
I totally agree with censorship. I do not want to see racist remarks ... Homophobic remarks .... etc etc.... Almost every thread in here nowadays gets down to personal name calling and insults. I have got to the situation where I actually think we would be better to close down the Current Affairs forum altogether !! It is now the same 7/8 people that contribute everytime....we all know what they are basically gona say. Come on..we all know who is going to say flog them, and hang them high. We all know who will come up with a conspiricy theory and blame the banks.....Its just become predictable and boring. Others and certainly new members are scared to comment as they see the quite personal attacks that go on in here. Self regulation has failed....the people concerned have no one else but themselves to blame....close it !!!

Dean I agree with your comments about racist and homophobic remarks and I believe that should not be tolerated but also believe that is strictly covered in the AUP.
General name calling is between two people and what I have seen is six of one and half a dozen of the other, someone has to stand taller and just walk away and the problem with be solved, if the posts disappear or threads get locked it will not solve a problem, as for getting rid of the currant affairs forum, is unfair for members like myself that pay my money to use and other like me.

While should a few spoil things for the rest?
I think we have all been told off by admin and the mod team about "playground" mentality at some stage or other.
It was a long time ago, I admit, but in support of minx's post, I do recall the clarion cry "stick and stones may break my bones, but words will never harm me!"
It's not bullying. Sometimes it seems necessary though to tease coherent responses out of some posters who just seem intent on spilling out the same old meaningless drivel without any intention of justifying their position on a subject.
Quote by flower411
with apologies to dean for chopping out some of his impassioned plea..
Others and certainly new members are scared to comment as they see the quite personal attacks that go on in here. Self regulation has failed....the people concerned have no one else but themselves to blame....close it !!!

I don't think I've ever seen a new member suffer a personal attack in the way that dean suggests is the norm and I have said elsewhere in these forums, they should not post in fear of reprisals.
If that were the case, perhaps being one of the gang of 7 he refers to, I would find such behaviour unacceptable and would certainly make my views known to the culprit either through pm or more publicly in the thread.
Everyone should expect to be challenged on their view or asked to elucidate or articulate their view more clearly and that is quite right and proper.
Sometimes, punctuating a thread with a bit of harmless humour (such as was the case this morning on another thread, parts of which were removed) lightens the load and can encourage further debate.
And sometimes people simply searching out threads and posting insults directed at the same people over and over again ....often with the ..
"Oh, haven`t you got a sense of humour ?" question as a ripost to any defense....
just gets boring .
And yes Minx, it IS bullying.....why should people have to put up with constant insults from the same people over and over ....why should they have to "walk away" or "ignore" ....
We might just as well have no moderation at all and let the serial insulters just carry on.

Is that is the case and evidence is collected then maybe the person or persons should be banned from commenting on the forums, it should go to a commitee to decide on evidence produced, just an idea as the site is forever evolving and maybe they should look at this option.
wouldnt that be glasses more as stalking than bullying?
The site can monitor chatroom logs and posts in forms, if this is happening shouldnt it be monitored more carefully and stop the people that are doing this, as they have a duty of care surely that members here should feel safe within this enviroment in the way you are suggesting that to me seems more about stalking than bullying.
I agree! Certainly in the chat room it would be far more intimidating and confrontational to be receiving insults. If that's happening it should be reported and stopped!
Quote by deancannock
I totally agree with censorship. I do not want to see racist remarks ... Homophobic remarks .... etc etc.... Almost every thread in here nowadays gets down to personal name calling and insults. I have got to the situation where I actually think we would be better to close down the Current Affairs forum altogether !! It is now the same 7/8 people that contribute everytime....we all know what they are basically gona say. Come on..we all know who is going to say flog them, and hang them high. We all know who will come up with a conspiricy theory and blame the banks.....Its just become predictable and boring. Others and certainly new members are scared to comment as they see the quite personal attacks that go on in here. Self regulation has failed....the people concerned have no one else but themselves to blame....close it !!!

Perhaps new members are scared to voice an opinion on here because they're scared that somebody (and there always will be that "somebody") will take offence and get them banned and possibly lose them the hard-earned cash they've paid out to be here. Just a thought.
Censorship has been the starting point for many dictatorships - a few more "ships" and we could have a whole flotilla of regression.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
wouldnt that be glasses more as stalking than bullying?

The site can monitor chatroom logs and posts in forms, if this is happening shouldnt it be monitored more carefully and stop the people that are doing this, as they have a duty of care surely that members here should feel safe within this enviroment in the way you are suggesting that to me seems more about stalking than bullying.

You been on the bottle again minxy? lol or just a Freudian slip?
I'd agree though. Stalking is much more an issue sometimes. However, some members seem much more able than others to handle bad behaviour in chat. It's when the line is crossed between abuse and banter that it can become a problem.
Quote by ForestFunsters
I totally agree with censorship. I do not want to see racist remarks ... Homophobic remarks .... etc etc.... Almost every thread in here nowadays gets down to personal name calling and insults. I have got to the situation where I actually think we would be better to close down the Current Affairs forum altogether !! It is now the same 7/8 people that contribute everytime....we all know what they are basically gona say. Come on..we all know who is going to say flog them, and hang them high. We all know who will come up with a conspiricy theory and blame the banks.....Its just become predictable and boring. Others and certainly new members are scared to comment as they see the quite personal attacks that go on in here. Self regulation has failed....the people concerned have no one else but themselves to blame....close it !!!

Perhaps new members are scared to voice an opinion on here because they're scared that somebody (and there always will be that "somebody") will take offence and get them banned and possibly lose them the hard-earned cash they've paid out to be here. Just a thought.
Censorship has been the starting point for many dictatorships - a few more "ships" and we could have a whole flotilla of regression.
I would honestly give the mod team and Admin a bit more credit to sort that out. It's very rare in my experience for them to impose a ban at the off - except in the more serious of cases, of course!
Quote by GnV
wouldnt that be glasses more as stalking than bullying?

The site can monitor chatroom logs and posts in forms, if this is happening shouldnt it be monitored more carefully and stop the people that are doing this, as they have a duty of care surely that members here should feel safe within this enviroment in the way you are suggesting that to me seems more about stalking than bullying.

You been on the bottle again minxy? lol or just a Freudian slip?
I'd agree though. Stalking is much more an issue sometimes. However, some members seem much more able than others to handle bad behaviour in chat. It's when the line is crossed between abuse and banter that it can become a problem.
No it is my fingers working quicker than my brain, just crap spelling mistake flipa
But if it is as Flower describes, 'following people into other threads and even the chatrooms to make insulting comments over and over again' then IMO it's pretty clear which side of the abuse/banter line it's on. And it would be just as clear if it where reported, thats my point. Whoever is experiencing this can easily act on it and have it stopped.
Quote by GnV
I totally agree with censorship. I do not want to see racist remarks ... Homophobic remarks .... etc etc.... Almost every thread in here nowadays gets down to personal name calling and insults. I have got to the situation where I actually think we would be better to close down the Current Affairs forum altogether !! It is now the same 7/8 people that contribute everytime....we all know what they are basically gona say. Come on..we all know who is going to say flog them, and hang them high. We all know who will come up with a conspiricy theory and blame the banks.....Its just become predictable and boring. Others and certainly new members are scared to comment as they see the quite personal attacks that go on in here. Self regulation has failed....the people concerned have no one else but themselves to blame....close it !!!

Perhaps new members are scared to voice an opinion on here because they're scared that somebody (and there always will be that "somebody") will take offence and get them banned and possibly lose them the hard-earned cash they've paid out to be here. Just a thought.
Censorship has been the starting point for many dictatorships - a few more "ships" and we could have a whole flotilla of regression.
I would honestly give the mod team and Admin a bit more credit to sort that out. It's very rare in my experience for them to impose a ban at the off - except in the more serious of cases, of course!
But how are new members supposed to know that? They might come on here assuming that it's a site for adults, not just an adult site.
Quote by ForestFunsters
I totally agree with censorship. I do not want to see racist remarks ... Homophobic remarks .... etc etc.... Almost every thread in here nowadays gets down to personal name calling and insults. I have got to the situation where I actually think we would be better to close down the Current Affairs forum altogether !! It is now the same 7/8 people that contribute everytime....we all know what they are basically gona say. Come on..we all know who is going to say flog them, and hang them high. We all know who will come up with a conspiricy theory and blame the banks.....Its just become predictable and boring. Others and certainly new members are scared to comment as they see the quite personal attacks that go on in here. Self regulation has failed....the people concerned have no one else but themselves to blame....close it !!!

Perhaps new members are scared to voice an opinion on here because they're scared that somebody (and there always will be that "somebody") will take offence and get them banned and possibly lose them the hard-earned cash they've paid out to be here. Just a thought.
Censorship has been the starting point for many dictatorships - a few more "ships" and we could have a whole flotilla of regression.
Maybe they are scared of being censored? I am quite new here really, or quite new to the forums at least. I enjoy posting here and would like to think that I have not bullied or harassed any one. I also don't feel I have seen any bullying either, unless I do not look in the correct places. Difficult to debate without disagreeing though
Quote by flower411
We might just as well have no moderation at all and let the serial insulters just carry on.

Of which you was never one eh?
The hypocrisy :twisted:
Back to the op's topic....censorship.
Yes there should be censorship but also freedom of speech, which is a fine line at the best of times.
We all know where this thread has come from.
Shut the CA forum down if people are going to whinge every five minutes because somebody has said something they do not like, to be honest after the locking of yet another thread I am really past caring.
What I would say I have already said and that is, it seemed perfectly ok at one point for the head of the Catholic church to be called a " cunt " and I hate that word. But oh no it did not stop there it then transgressed into " Arrest the protecting cunt " and as if that was not bad enough it went further with " homophobic woman hating racist protecting cunt "....horrific.
A moderator obviously saw those disgusting comments and chose NOT to lock the thread, it was only when admin saw it some time later that the thread was rightly locked, and in my mind it should have vanished from the forum as others have.
Then in the council thread there were " spats " between other members, but let us be fair here nothing and I mean nothing as offensive as in the Poe thread, yet it gets locked. Remember I am not religious at all but I am sure there are Catholics on this site who must have been horrified to read that, and to continue to read it.
I am sorry but that has no consistency attached to anything. That is my main gripe.
I feel that the censorship here now is so overboard that to be honest I find it boring. So many threads have vanished of late, and even the Steam room has gone for it's clean up twice now because the powers that be do not like the content of peoples comments in there.....that is censorship.
I have spoken to admin over various issues a few times and I understand the predicament they can sometimes find themselves in, but if you have people working for this site or any other site, then they all should be singing from the same hymn sheet surely?
The locking of the council thread is what has really pissed me off to be perfectly honest and when I received a reply from Dave Notts stating why he closed it, his comment was...well you can start another one. Sorry? I did that when the original council thread was locked, and I replied I will not be doing that again.
The question here is simple really....do we have free speech on here or not?
Are threads going to be continually locked at the drop of a argument, for if that is the case then maybe it would be best to just shut the CA part of the forum down. The council thread could have easily been cleaned and left open, there was in my opinion no need to lock it, the same as the original one was.
When I hear people moaning about others trying to get threads locked, the saying " pot kettle black " springs to mind, as some have very short memories.
The answer that I had back as to why the Pope thread remained open and the council one was locked, was humbug.
On that note I am outta here as I really do not give a monkeys anymore about this forum, but will keep my options open as to whether I can be bothered to post anymore on here with blatant censorship.
I hope that answers the op's topic.
Quote by flower411
Is that is the case and evidence is collected then maybe the person or persons should be banned from commenting on the forums, it should go to a commitee to decide on evidence produced, just an idea as the site is forever evolving and maybe they should look at this option.

To be fair minx .... I think the mod team is the commitee.
The fact that one may not agree with their decisions doesn`t mean they don`t discuss stuff before making them.
As I`ve mentioned elsewhere today, I`m liking the changes to the moderation that have come about lately, they just take a bit of getting used to rolleyes
I am only just back posting today, and already had one of my posts deleted.
I guess it might take me a bit of time to understand what and why things are happening too.
Anyway good to see you are still around, I thought you might have retired by now wink
Quote by Theladyisaminx
Is that is the case and evidence is collected then maybe the person or persons should be banned from commenting on the forums, it should go to a commitee to decide on evidence produced, just an idea as the site is forever evolving and maybe they should look at this option.

To be fair minx .... I think the mod team is the commitee.
The fact that one may not agree with their decisions doesn`t mean they don`t discuss stuff before making them.
As I`ve mentioned elsewhere today, I`m liking the changes to the moderation that have come about lately, they just take a bit of getting used to rolleyes
I am only just back posting today, and already had one of my posts deleted.
I guess it might take me a bit of time to understand what and why things are happening too.
Anyway good to see you are still around, I thought you might have retired by now wink
It was deleted in an experiment by st3v3 to show how over moderation would look, and not how moderation is being run. You got caught in the middle of it lol
Welcome back
Dave_Notts
Quote by Dave__Notts
Is that is the case and evidence is collected then maybe the person or persons should be banned from commenting on the forums, it should go to a commitee to decide on evidence produced, just an idea as the site is forever evolving and maybe they should look at this option.

To be fair minx .... I think the mod team is the commitee.
The fact that one may not agree with their decisions doesn`t mean they don`t discuss stuff before making them.
As I`ve mentioned elsewhere today, I`m liking the changes to the moderation that have come about lately, they just take a bit of getting used to rolleyes
I am only just back posting today, and already had one of my posts deleted.
I guess it might take me a bit of time to understand what and why things are happening too.
Anyway good to see you are still around, I thought you might have retired by now wink
It was deleted in an experiment by st3v3 to show how over moderation would look, and not how moderation is being run. You got caught in the middle of it lol
Welcome back
Dave_Notts
I did not see what was written or removed, (Sadly :twisted: ) only picked up that some thing had happened by reading what people had posted. Seems a bit drastic, having read many things that should have been removed from the thread on the Pope, I find it hard to imagine what could have been worse that needed such action dunno
Quote by flower411
Is that is the case and evidence is collected then maybe the person or persons should be banned from commenting on the forums, it should go to a commitee to decide on evidence produced, just an idea as the site is forever evolving and maybe they should look at this option.

To be fair minx .... I think the mod team is the commitee.
The fact that one may not agree with their decisions doesn`t mean they don`t discuss stuff before making them.
As I`ve mentioned elsewhere today, I`m liking the changes to the moderation that have come about lately, they just take a bit of getting used to rolleyes
I am only just back posting today, and already had one of my posts deleted.
I guess it might take me a bit of time to understand what and why things are happening too.
Anyway good to see you are still around, I thought you might have retired by now wink
It was deleted in an experiment by st3v3 to show how over moderation would look, and not how moderation is being run. You got caught in the middle of it lol
Welcome back
Dave_Notts
I thought it was funny ........:giggle:
Was it? I did not see it, so wonder what must be funny about it dunno
Quote by flower411

I thought it was funny ........:giggle:

Was it? I did not see it, so wonder what must be funny about it dunno
I thought it was funny that the trolls have completely failed to see the point of the fact that some completely innocuous posts were removed because of an ongoing accusation that some of them were deliberately trying to get threads locked ....
The simple fact that they are now whinging on about censorship and citing that thread as evidence is actually hilarious ..... the fact that minx happened to get caught up in it and hasn`t a clue what`s going on is making it even funnier ...
Well thanks for the explanation, but think I could be more confused than ever :dunno:
Quote by flower411
Is that is the case and evidence is collected then maybe the person or persons should be banned from commenting on the forums, it should go to a commitee to decide on evidence produced, just an idea as the site is forever evolving and maybe they should look at this option.

To be fair minx .... I think the mod team is the commitee.
The fact that one may not agree with their decisions doesn`t mean they don`t discuss stuff before making them.
As I`ve mentioned elsewhere today, I`m liking the changes to the moderation that have come about lately, they just take a bit of getting used to rolleyes
I am only just back posting today, and already had one of my posts deleted.
I guess it might take me a bit of time to understand what and why things are happening too.
Anyway good to see you are still around, I thought you might have retired by now wink
It was deleted in an experiment by st3v3 to show how over moderation would look, and not how moderation is being run. You got caught in the middle of it lol
Welcome back
Dave_Notts
I thought it was funny ........:giggle:
I did too, but shhh I wanted an explaination and all I got was I was used as target practice and I didnt even hear aim shot fire so I could duck.
Great welcome back hey? :lol:
Quote by Theladyisaminx
I did too, but shhh I wanted an explaination and all I got was I was used as target practice and I didnt even hear aim shot fire so I could duck.
Great welcome back hey? lol

Its good to see you back, here's a better welcome smile