Do you think Brown is doing a good job?

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
I wanted to bump this back as time has moved on after first asking the question.
I believe he was slow in reacting but what he is doing now in the financial sense are the best moves for the long term future of this country.
What has happened was always going to happen it was only a matter of time before the bubble burst.
It is and is still going to be a hard bumpy ride but I still feel Brown is the best man for the job in hand to get us out of this recession.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
So which bits of his jiggery pokery do actually think are working ?????
Personally I think his best idea to date was to give the banks loads of OUR money so they could pay themselves their bonuses this year. I`ll certainly sleep better knowing that the fat cats are getting even fatter.
Real weight off my mind blink

I recall a BBC radio4 show, 'In The Red'....

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
I wanted to bump this back as time has moved on after first asking the question.
I believe he was slow in reacting but what he is doing now in the financial sense are the best moves for the long term future of this country.
What has happened was always going to happen it was only a matter of time before the bubble burst.
It is and is still going to be a hard bumpy ride but I still feel Brown is the best man for the job in hand to get us out of this recession.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
So which bits of his jiggery pokery do actually think are working ?????
Personally I think his best idea to date was to give the banks loads of OUR money so they could pay themselves their bonuses this year. I`ll certainly sleep better knowing that the fat cats are getting even fatter.
Real weight off my mind blink

:gagged:

10 Feb 2009

No

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
I wanted to bump this back as time has moved on after first asking the question.
I believe he was slow in reacting but what he is doing now in the financial sense are the best moves for the long term future of this country.
What has happened was always going to happen it was only a matter of time before the bubble burst.
It is and is still going to be a hard bumpy ride but I still feel Brown is the best man for the job in hand to get us out of this recession.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
So which bits of his jiggery pokery do actually think are working ?????
Personally I think his best idea to date was to give the banks loads of OUR money so they could pay themselves their bonuses this year. I`ll certainly sleep better knowing that the fat cats are getting even fatter.
Real weight off my mind blink

I don’t profess to know a lot about economics but know more in my head than have the ability to write down as it is such a complex topic.
What Brown’s aim is right now is to stabilise the economy, because the overall economy is deflating. I liken it to a balloon deflating, to make the balloon more stable money needs to be injected in.
A lot of the deflating we know comes from the banks losses.
What Brown has done is given money to the banks by way of printing more money, It is not out of tax payers reserves. But then what happens once the economy inflates there will be more money about that needs to be taken back out, or we will have inflation.
This money is not being raised by borrowing too much but by creating money from the government. Not only is money being printed, but more bank deposits are being created to increase the money supply. This is not being financed by more government borrowing because borrowing would just take the money back out of the economy to put it back in.
Brown in giving the money to the banks and has taken shares as a swap, the government now own RBS ( Natwest) and Northern Rock.
The bonuses for the boards of banks owned by the government have been banned.
In future years this could be sold at a large profit thus earning a large income for the treasury.
This to me is an immediate solution to an immediate problem that could have long term positive effects for the future of this country.
It is just going to take time for it to be seen to be having some effect.
The fact that the government are pressurising banks to lend on small business opportunities covered by the government loan guarantee scheme to me must be a good thing for the future of this country too.

10 Feb 2009

lets get one thing right...he has given the Banks no money at all. He has simply given them an insurance scheme against any likely failures. With the price of land falling, no bank would lend money without a 100% guanantee against the loan, with-out this insurance scheme. The fact is every country is now following the lead given by Gordan Brown, in trying to stimulate the ecomomy. the next step has to be a large public spending budget, to help stimulate the ecomomy. April will be the bottom of this recession, we will bob along the bottom until September then i think you will see the green shoots of recovery, and 2010 will see us climbing out .

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
I wanted to bump this back as time has moved on after first asking the question.
I believe he was slow in reacting but what he is doing now in the financial sense are the best moves for the long term future of this country.
What has happened was always going to happen it was only a matter of time before the bubble burst.
It is and is still going to be a hard bumpy ride but I still feel Brown is the best man for the job in hand to get us out of this recession.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
So which bits of his jiggery pokery do actually think are working ?????
Personally I think his best idea to date was to give the banks loads of OUR money so they could pay themselves their bonuses this year. I`ll certainly sleep better knowing that the fat cats are getting even fatter.
Real weight off my mind blink

I don’t profess to know a lot about economics but know more in my head than have the ability to write down as it is such a complex topic.
What Brown’s aim is right now is to stabilise the economy, because the overall economy is deflating. I liken it to a balloon deflating, to make the balloon more stable money needs to be injected in.
A lot of the deflating we know comes from the banks losses.
What Brown has done is given money to the banks by way of printing more money, It is not out of tax payers reserves. But then what happens once the economy inflates there will be more money about that needs to be taken back out, or we will have inflation.
This money is not being raised by borrowing too much but by creating money from the government. Not only is money being printed, but more bank deposits are being created to increase the money supply. This is not being financed by more government borrowing because borrowing would just take the money back out of the economy to put it back in.
Brown in giving the money to the banks and has taken shares as a swap, the government now own RBS ( Natwest) and Northern Rock.
The bonuses for the boards of banks owned by the government have been banned.
In future years this could be sold at a large profit thus earning a large income for the treasury.
This to me is an immediate solution to an immediate problem that could have long term positive effects for the future of this country.
It is just going to take time for it to be seen to be having some effect.
The fact that the government are pressurising banks to lend on small business opportunities covered by the government loan guarantee scheme to me must be a good thing for the future of this country too.
So... he`s printing money to give to the banks and he`s trying to force the banks to use this "conjured up from nowhere, backed by nothing" money to do exactly what got us into this mess in the first place. Thereby simply repeating and compounding the problem.
If we continue to promote policies that are already proven to be wrong there will be no profitable shares to be sold !!
The whole basis of the idea relies on the rest of the world believing that the money that is now being printed is backed by something solid !! They are simply not going to fall for it !!!
Please minx, give me an example of an economy that survived after it started printing money that didn`t exist.
In 1974 in the US two of the largest banks were in trouble through bad loans.
If these two banks collapsed at the time the knock on effect to the banking system would have been considerable.
The Fed. Pumped money into the banks and staved off a collapse.
This money was not borrowed just created by the Fed.
Later when inflation took off, the Fed by interest rate and money supply reduction polices corrected the situation.
So in answer to your question when a balloon deflates you give it more air, you don’t borrow it you just provide it.
Flower people see everything in notes and coins, most money in circulation are bookkeeping entries, no cash
When a bank gives you an overdraft it doesn’t put the notes and coins in a vault for you, it is just a bookkeeping entry.
I do believe in small business, I would rather see 100,000 small businesses run on a small scale than one big huge corporate company.
The advantages for employment are far better for those that like to have comfort of a wage packet. Smaller companies I feel respect their work force better.
The families could gain from it as it can promote back apprenticeships.
Maybe it is just me that could see the benefits that this could have for the future of this country.

10 Feb 2009

So IF Bottler Brown and " eyebrows " know what they are doing, why the decrease in VAT ?
It is obvious it has not worked....was never likely to work....and has NO bearing on the people on the street at all.
These people think that by either " printing " more money will help, are idiots....one eyed ones. lol

All printing money will do is to destabalise the economy even more, and the pound will sink even further, against other currencies.
The only way to do it is to BUY the banks and let the Government take control of them, and then they can make them borrow to each other again. What Brown has done so far, has had no bearing on the economy at all, that I can see.
VAT down to 15%.............yes I can see that has worked.

10 Feb 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
So IF Bottler Brown and " eyebrows " know what they are doing, why the decrease in VAT ?
It is obvious it has not worked....was never likely to work....and has NO bearing on the people on the street at all.
These people think that by either " printing " more money will help, are idiots....one eyed ones.
All printing money will do is to destabalise the economy even more, and the pound will sink even further, against other currencies.
The only way to do it is to BUY the banks and let the Government take control of them, and then they can make them borrow to each other again.
What Brown has done so far, has had no bearing on the economy at all, that I can see.
VAT down to 15%.............yes I can see that has worked.

I didn’t know you were a communist/ socialist whereby the state owns everything? :shock:
That goes again where you think. :lol:
On another point if the banks have lost their money, how would they lead to each other?
Whether owned by the state of not?
Where does the money come from off trees?
It can’t be raised by borrowing because it is taking it out of the economy only to put it back in again.
Liken it to the balloon you suck a mouthful of air out to blow a mouthful back, the balloon stays the same size.

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
I wanted to bump this back as time has moved on after first asking the question.
I believe he was slow in reacting but what he is doing now in the financial sense are the best moves for the long term future of this country.
What has happened was always going to happen it was only a matter of time before the bubble burst.
It is and is still going to be a hard bumpy ride but I still feel Brown is the best man for the job in hand to get us out of this recession.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
So which bits of his jiggery pokery do actually think are working ?????
Personally I think his best idea to date was to give the banks loads of OUR money so they could pay themselves their bonuses this year. I`ll certainly sleep better knowing that the fat cats are getting even fatter.
Real weight off my mind blink

I don’t profess to know a lot about economics but know more in my head than have the ability to write down as it is such a complex topic.
What Brown’s aim is right now is to stabilise the economy, because the overall economy is deflating. I liken it to a balloon deflating, to make the balloon more stable money needs to be injected in.
A lot of the deflating we know comes from the banks losses.
What Brown has done is given money to the banks by way of printing more money, It is not out of tax payers reserves. But then what happens once the economy inflates there will be more money about that needs to be taken back out, or we will have inflation.
This money is not being raised by borrowing too much but by creating money from the government. Not only is money being printed, but more bank deposits are being created to increase the money supply. This is not being financed by more government borrowing because borrowing would just take the money back out of the economy to put it back in.
Brown in giving the money to the banks and has taken shares as a swap, the government now own RBS ( Natwest) and Northern Rock.
The bonuses for the boards of banks owned by the government have been banned.
In future years this could be sold at a large profit thus earning a large income for the treasury.
This to me is an immediate solution to an immediate problem that could have long term positive effects for the future of this country.
It is just going to take time for it to be seen to be having some effect.
The fact that the government are pressurising banks to lend on small business opportunities covered by the government loan guarantee scheme to me must be a good thing for the future of this country too.
So... he`s printing money to give to the banks and he`s trying to force the banks to use this "conjured up from nowhere, backed by nothing" money to do exactly what got us into this mess in the first place. Thereby simply repeating and compounding the problem.
If we continue to promote policies that are already proven to be wrong there will be no profitable shares to be sold !!
The whole basis of the idea relies on the rest of the world believing that the money that is now being printed is backed by something solid !! They are simply not going to fall for it !!!
Please minx, give me an example of an economy that survived after it started printing money that didn`t exist.
In 1974 in the US two of the largest banks were in trouble through bad loans.
If these two banks collapsed at the time the knock on effect to the banking system would have been considerable.
The Fed. Pumped money into the banks and staved off a collapse.
This money was not borrowed just created by the Fed.
Later when inflation took off, the Fed by interest rate and money supply reduction polices corrected the situation.
So in answer to your question when a balloon deflates you give it more air, you don’t borrow it you just provide it.
Flower people see everything in notes and coins, most money in circulation are bookkeeping entries, no cash
When a bank gives you an overdraft it doesn’t put the notes and coins in a vault for you, it is just a bookkeeping entry.
I do believe in small business, I would rather see 100,000 small businesses run on a small scale than one big huge corporate company.
The advantages for employment are far better for those that like to have comfort of a wage packet. Smaller companies I feel respect their work force better.
The families could gain from it as it can promote back apprenticeships.
Maybe it is just me that could see the benefits that this could have for the future of this country.
Minx ... we are talking in simple terms here because it keeps things understandable !!
I am aware that when I get an overdraft the money is not deposited in an account for me !!!
Yes, it is a book keeping entry !!
But ..... it has to be backed by something. Our economy has been run on the assumption that the financial sector will continue to grow simply by the the purchase and sale of book keeping entries.
There has to be a solid base...we used to have gold reserves but they were sold cheap for a few worthless "book keeping" entries.
The days where “paper” needs to be backed by solid assets as gold as long since expired, there isn’t enough gold in the world to back the amount of money in the world in circulation.
The only way to back money supply is throught production of goods, to much money chasing to few goods =inflation. To many good and to little money = deflation
Money doesn’t have to be backed by anything because it is “Fiat Money”
The objectives of economists are to create equilibrium and eventually growth.
Going back to a previous point about our history
The last two depressions back in the 30’s and just after the war,
in the 30’s we created money as per I believe John Milton Keynes theories to inflate the economy. Within a few years things were booming.
After the war we borrowed money from the international community mostly America to rebuild out infrastructure and we have just finished paying it back some 50+ years later
So I know what solution I would prefer.

10 Feb 2009

Well, you can make money by paying others to make things (in other countries) and then paying others to sell them !
That works ok, until the makers sell their things by themselves !
the whole thing worked quite well, until greed took over and people made money by moving money (selling nothing to nobody for nothing plus a commission)
Eventually, somebody was going to not only notice the emperor had no clothes, but was going to try to sell him more no-clothes for an inflated price.
Eventually somebody had a word with the emperor:

"HOI !....listen mate, you ain't got no kit on...and d'ose guys is selling you more of nothing for lots of dosh....eiver dey is lying or you is a pillock, and cold"

10 Feb 2009

Please dont quote me and I could very well be wrong but doesnt just printing money lead to hyper inflation? ala Germany in the 30's?

10 Feb 2009

firstly...depite what said above..just seen the banks will not be giving out a bonus to workers this year. quite rightly so..but the people that will feel the pinch is not the people at the top...who are the people that reallY cocked this up..but the front line counter staff, who have had nothing to do with this. We do see alot of people saying what Gordan Brown has done and what every other country has now copied,,,,,is wrong. Maybe you would like to put forward your ideas on how we move forward and get out of this recession then.

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411

I personally don't agree with it, but as it stands at the moment I can't see a better option, I hope and pray that a lot of lessons have been learnt during this crisis, as although I hate it media has bought it into the eyes of people that can now have conversations like this. I don't know what would be a better solution I have just stated what I have as a way to question and understand it myself.
I am hoping we pull through, but all hope will go out of the window if things just revert back to how it was.
My hope is based on peoples attitudes have to change from greed and selfishness and if we have to go through this to even change a proportion of people’s attitudes then I feel it is worth the ride.
I could see years ago that people needed a wake up call, I am hoping this is it.

10 Feb 2009

get rid of him and have an elected priminister

10 Feb 2009

Quote by The_third_man
Please dont quote me and I could very well be wrong but doesnt just printing money lead to hyper inflation? ala Germany in the 30's?

In Germany after WW1 lack of production caused hyper inflation.
The money printed was used for consumers to buy basis goods.
The banks did not lead additional money, notes and coins were only printed to meet withdrawals from consumers.
Lack of production was the cause.
This then lead Keynes theories of money supply and how to control it, to either reduce or increase to match the goods being produced.

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
. Maybe you would like to put forward your ideas on how we move forward and get out of this recession then.

Stop fighting other peoples wars.
Stop trying to police the world.
If we are able to conjure up money out of nowhere, start giving grants (not loans) to businesses, with conditions.
They must use the bank designated by the government to process all their money for a specific amount of time.
Stop charging business account holders to deposit cash ....it just encourages them to hold on to cash which then funds the black economy.
There should be incentives to business to pay cash into the bank.
Stop paying people to sit around doing nothing, take away their benefits if they turn down work.
Encourage British manufacturing by awarding government contracts to British companies.
Encourage legal immigrants into the tax paying system and remove illegal immigrants from the country.
Stop paying people to have children.
Teach children useful vocational skills in schools, abolish school league tables and national curriculums.
Bring in a form of national service, with everybody having to train and serve in some kind of community related enterprise........Fire Brigade, ambulance service, Waste collection, Recycling ....whatever.
Bring back apprenticeships.
The list is endless... the rot has well and truly set in and to suggest that we can buy our way out of this mess by pretending we have money that doesn`t exist and that everything will be ok in 2010.....well really !! rolleyes

Flower I agree with a lot of your points here and feel we have gone backwards.
But we need to get out of this mess as soon as possible to stablise things.
What you have listed I hope will happen when people see the light, but we do need a stable enviroment and peoples attitudes changing to hopefully see those things happen, do we not?
I think we also have to stop pointing blame and look within ourself for a way forward.

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
. Maybe you would like to put forward your ideas on how we move forward and get out of this recession then.

Stop fighting other peoples wars.
Stop trying to police the world.
If we are able to conjure up money out of nowhere, start giving grants (not loans) to businesses, with conditions.
They must use the bank designated by the government to process all their money for a specific amount of time.
Stop charging business account holders to deposit cash ....it just encourages them to hold on to cash which then funds the black economy.
There should be incentives to business to pay cash into the bank.
Stop paying people to sit around doing nothing, take away their benefits if they turn down work.
Encourage British manufacturing by awarding government contracts to British companies.
Encourage legal immigrants into the tax paying system and remove illegal immigrants from the country.
Stop paying people to have children.
Teach children useful vocational skills in schools, abolish school league tables and national curriculums.
Bring in a form of national service, with everybody having to train and serve in some kind of community related enterprise........Fire Brigade, ambulance service, Waste collection, Recycling ....whatever.
Bring back apprenticeships.
The list is endless... the rot has well and truly set in and to suggest that we can buy our way out of this mess by pretending we have money that doesn`t exist and that everything will be ok in 2010.....well really !! rolleyes

Flower I agree with a lot of your points here and feel we have gone backwards.
But we need to get out of this mess as soon as possible to stablise things.
What you have listed I hope will happen when people see the light, but we do need a stable enviroment and peoples attitudes changing to hopefully see those things happen, do we not?
I think we also have to stop pointing blame and look within ourself for a way forward.
Things are pretty stable now minx.. we are close to the bottom of the hole and we should build something solid to get ourselves out ....it will take time.
If we go for the "quick fix" it`ll all come crumbling down again, in ten years, 20 years, 30 years ?? Who knows ??
If Gordon had the welfare of the country at heart he would be looking at building our way out of the hole but he is simply searching for votes so he`s gonna float us all out in a balloon of hot air. The balloon will burst and the cycle will start all over again.....
Boom and bust boom and bust boom and bust... How long will it take for economists and politicians to see the evidence of history ??
If we keep on repeating the same mistakes we will have the same outcome ....Durrr !! it`s not rocket science !!!
It will take time, and longer term planning, but that is the problem, nobody has ever invested long term planning into this country.
I do understand what you saying it is a short term fix, but the differences are now people are more able to talk about what is going on, would they really stand around and see us go down the same slippery slope?
surely more awareness provokes changes or am I wrong in my thoughts.
I know I can be naive at times.

10 Feb 2009

i have to say,ive gone past the point of caring, nothing we do or say will make a blind bit of difference anyway. maybe its the wrong attitude to have, but so far ive not seen anything that has wanted me to sway any other way

10 Feb 2009

Nice to see a few posts I agree with.
Do you remember the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy. The planet that sent all the non productive members of society off to a new world where they quickly established a currency based on leaves.
I wonder what proportion of those at work in the UK actually make anything worth making.
I saw a lovely phrase in a banking regulators report. It stated six reasons for the banking crisis one of which was "a self-reinforcing cycle of irrational exuberance". Did we used to call that greed or stupidity?

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
Oh well ....
Sorry minx ... just realised, your original question was "do you think Gordon Brown is doing a good job ?"
My answer is ...No

I think that what he is doing may make it look like we are coming out of recession in a relatively short space of time, but I think he is fully aware that it will not stand up in the long term.
Cooking the books to avoid the consequences is usually frowned upon and would involve you or I ending up in prison as soon as the auditors arrived !!

:shock: well luckily I keep my books well balanced then, and they certainly are not full of hot air. :wink:

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
. Maybe you would like to put forward your ideas on how we move forward and get out of this recession then.

Firstly thank you for your answers...I would like to respond if I may as follows;
Stop fighting other peoples wars.
So we let them build up a regime and then come bomb civilised counteries..ie 7/11..twin towers. the fight against international terrorism..is everyones war
Stop trying to police the world.
same as above
If we are able to conjure up money out of nowhere, start giving grants (not loans) to businesses, with conditions.
They must use the bank designated by the government to process all their money for a specific amount of time.
As stated before we have given the banks no money at all..it is simply an insurance policy against potential losses.
Stop charging business account holders to deposit cash ....it just encourages them to hold on to cash which then funds the black economy.
There should be incentives to business to pay cash into the bank.
all depends on your bank. I have my own business and they do not charge me for depositing money !!! Thou has to be said..can't see how this will turn economy round either !!
Stop paying people to sit around doing nothing, take away their benefits if they turn down work.
so the guy that has worked as a qualified tecnician in an engineering firm, for past 20 years is now made redundant and we tel him he has to go stack the shelves at Tesco or lose his benifits. there is a scheme after 12 monthes where people are offered re-training skills if required and at that point they will lose benifits if job offered is not accepted.
Encourage British manufacturing by awarding government contracts to British companies.
The one good thing about the weekness of the pound is imports are more expensive and our exports are cheaper. So think you may find the tide is turning slighly for british manufacturing.
Encourage legal immigrants into the tax paying system and remove illegal immigrants from the country.
we do this now ..maybe not very effictivly...but it is done.
Stop paying people to have children.
Simply can not agree.....only people that would suffer is the kids..that would still be born regardless.
Teach children useful vocational skills in schools, abolish school league tables and national curriculums.
School league tables and national cirriculums were brought in, at the insistence of parents who wanted to know what was best school, and businesses that said, without a national standard it was impossible to evaluate school leavers. also fail to see how this will have any effect on the current economy and help us out of recession.
Bring in a form of national service, with everybody having to train and serve in some kind of community related enterprise........Fire Brigade, ambulance service, Waste collection, Recycling ....whatever.
oh..so theres enough spare jobs around for this is there !! I know a little about fire service and can assure you, for every vacancy there is over 500 applicants on average.
Bring back apprenticeships.
they exist and government will part fund businesses that train
The list is endless... the rot has well and truly set in and to suggest that we can buy our way out of this mess by pretending we have money that doesn`t exist and that everything will be ok in 2010.....well really !! rolleyes

I am not as it happens a great Gordan brown supporter..but when it comes to the economy..i think he is doing the best in a bad situation..and trust him more than any of the other current alternatives !!

10 Feb 2009

Quote by deancannock
. Maybe you would like to put forward your ideas on how we move forward and get out of this recession then.

Firstly thank you for your answers...I would like to respond if I may as follows;
Stop fighting other peoples wars.
So we let them build up a regime and then come bomb civilised counteries..ie 7/11..twin towers. the fight against international terrorism..is everyones war
Stop trying to police the world.
same as above
If we are able to conjure up money out of nowhere, start giving grants (not loans) to businesses, with conditions.
They must use the bank designated by the government to process all their money for a specific amount of time.
As stated before we have given the banks no money at all..it is simply an insurance policy against potential losses.
Stop charging business account holders to deposit cash ....it just encourages them to hold on to cash which then funds the black economy.
There should be incentives to business to pay cash into the bank.
all depends on your bank. I have my own business and they do not charge me for depositing money !!! Thou has to be said..can't see how this will turn economy round either !!
Stop paying people to sit around doing nothing, take away their benefits if they turn down work.
so the guy that has worked as a qualified tecnician in an engineering firm, for past 20 years is now made redundant and we tel him he has to go stack the shelves at Tesco or lose his benifits. there is a scheme after 12 monthes where people are offered re-training skills if required and at that point they will lose benifits if job offered is not accepted.
Encourage British manufacturing by awarding government contracts to British companies.
The one good thing about the weekness of the pound is imports are more expensive and our exports are cheaper. So think you may find the tide is turning slighly for british manufacturing.
Encourage legal immigrants into the tax paying system and remove illegal immigrants from the country.
we do this now ..maybe not very effictivly...but it is done.
Stop paying people to have children.
Simply can not agree.....only people that would suffer is the kids..that would still be born regardless.
Teach children useful vocational skills in schools, abolish school league tables and national curriculums.
School league tables and national cirriculums were brought in, at the insistence of parents who wanted to know what was best school, and businesses that said, without a national standard it was impossible to evaluate school leavers. also fail to see how this will have any effect on the current economy and help us out of recession.
Bring in a form of national service, with everybody having to train and serve in some kind of community related enterprise........Fire Brigade, ambulance service, Waste collection, Recycling ....whatever.
oh..so theres enough spare jobs around for this is there !! I know a little about fire service and can assure you, for every vacancy there is over 500 applicants on average.
Bring back apprenticeships.
they exist and government will part fund businesses that train
The list is endless... the rot has well and truly set in and to suggest that we can buy our way out of this mess by pretending we have money that doesn`t exist and that everything will be ok in 2010.....well really !! rolleyes

I am not as it happens a great Gordan brown supporter..but when it comes to the economy..i think he is doing the best in a bad situation..and trust him more than any of the other current alternatives !!if this is his best god help us if we see his worst..we are in this mess because of government over spending,giving away billions in foreign aid..lets face it browns more interested in policing the world than looking after his own little island

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
snip...
Things are pretty stable now minx.. we are close to the bottom of the hole and we should build something solid to get ourselves out ....it will take time.
If we go for the "quick fix" it`ll all come crumbling down again, in ten years, 20 years, 30 years ?? Who knows ??
If Gordon had the welfare of the country at heart he would be looking at building our way out of the hole but he is simply searching for votes so he`s gonna float us all out in a balloon of hot air. The balloon will burst and the cycle will start all over again.....
Boom and bust boom and bust boom and bust... How long will it take for economists and politicians to see the evidence of history ??
If we keep on repeating the same mistakes we will have the same outcome ....Durrr !! it`s not rocket science !!!

How long before the electorate wakes up to these money grabbing self-centred idiots and installs someone competent?
Unfortunately, I doubt there is anyone in the current mix of Politicians worth backing just now. Just to be controversial, I'd give the job back to the Royals...

10 Feb 2009

Quote by deancannock
We do see alot of people saying what Gordan Brown has done and what every other country has now copied,,,,,is wrong.

Actually the Americans did follow Gordon's lead and found pretty much as we have it made no bludy Mr Obama is on version two where the government become far more are now creating a toxic bank with $500 billion rising to $1 investment
Also Deano I noticed you said the government have given the banks no cash at all only loan guarantees ...this is not true in fact ...substantial sums have been given to the banks at least 70 billion(thats more than the entire national debt) and I am not sure whether that includes amounts given to Northern Rock or not.I do accept that the £500million intervention originally mooted is made up substantially of loan guarantees.
Minxy am not sure on this one but I don't think that the government have yet started to print money(quantitively ease) so we would expect to see our national debt bearing a lot of the burden of actual monetary shoring .Of course ( and you heard it here first) Gordon will have got his sums wrong yet again and national debt will soar way past his predicted targets.
As others have said the way forward is for us to create real wealth (minxy I disagree growth does have to be back by real assets whatever form they may take).As someone earlier said there has to be a natural need to create added value by producing more in this country than we ever have before. Lest we ignore this message then equilbrium will align us with out global neigbours until their rise meets our decline.
Oh and Gordon has never once acknowledged his culpability in our current circumstances ...that is guy from Hbos on TV whilst feeling sorry for all those invloved denies any personal culpability whatsoever ..All I can say is in that case its staggering just how incompetetnt he was that he does not even understand the role his own lack of governance played in this mess!!
I should so shut up now

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
. Maybe you would like to put forward your ideas on how we move forward and get out of this recession then.

Firstly thank you for your answers...I would like to respond if I may as follows;
Stop fighting other peoples wars.
So we let them build up a regime and then come bomb civilised counteries..ie 7/11..twin towers. the fight against international terrorism..is everyones war
Stop trying to police the world.
same as above
If we are able to conjure up money out of nowhere, start giving grants (not loans) to businesses, with conditions.
They must use the bank designated by the government to process all their money for a specific amount of time.
As stated before we have given the banks no money at all..it is simply an insurance policy against potential losses.
Stop charging business account holders to deposit cash ....it just encourages them to hold on to cash which then funds the black economy.
There should be incentives to business to pay cash into the bank.
all depends on your bank. I have my own business and they do not charge me for depositing money !!! Thou has to be said..can't see how this will turn economy round either !!
Stop paying people to sit around doing nothing, take away their benefits if they turn down work.
so the guy that has worked as a qualified tecnician in an engineering firm, for past 20 years is now made redundant and we tel him he has to go stack the shelves at Tesco or lose his benifits. there is a scheme after 12 monthes where people are offered re-training skills if required and at that point they will lose benifits if job offered is not accepted.
Encourage British manufacturing by awarding government contracts to British companies.
The one good thing about the weekness of the pound is imports are more expensive and our exports are cheaper. So think you may find the tide is turning slighly for british manufacturing.
Encourage legal immigrants into the tax paying system and remove illegal immigrants from the country.
we do this now ..maybe not very effictivly...but it is done.
Stop paying people to have children.
Simply can not agree.....only people that would suffer is the kids..that would still be born regardless.
Teach children useful vocational skills in schools, abolish school league tables and national curriculums.
School league tables and national cirriculums were brought in, at the insistence of parents who wanted to know what was best school, and businesses that said, without a national standard it was impossible to evaluate school leavers. also fail to see how this will have any effect on the current economy and help us out of recession.
Bring in a form of national service, with everybody having to train and serve in some kind of community related enterprise........Fire Brigade, ambulance service, Waste collection, Recycling ....whatever.
oh..so theres enough spare jobs around for this is there !! I know a little about fire service and can assure you, for every vacancy there is over 500 applicants on average.
Bring back apprenticeships.
they exist and government will part fund businesses that train
The list is endless... the rot has well and truly set in and to suggest that we can buy our way out of this mess by pretending we have money that doesn`t exist and that everything will be ok in 2010.....well really !! rolleyes

I am not as it happens a great Gordan brown supporter..but when it comes to the economy..i think he is doing the best in a bad situation..and trust him more than any of the other current alternatives !!
Yep !! :thumbup:
Lucky I didn`t put too much time into it !!
Thanks for being negative about it all ...doesn`t come as a surprise.
Why don`t YOU come up with something constructive for a change ???
Aww no of course ...that would take some thought and effort and why would you bother when its easier to pull things apart.
I am sorry you have taken it like that Flower. I am thankfull as you were only one that put ideas forward. I simply tried to answer the points made. I have been a damn more positive I think than most on here, as I have stated before, the actions taken, I believe will result in a turn of fortunes and will will see by September a wind of change that will bring a good 2010. ..Again I would say I did not wish to offend.

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
. Maybe you would like to put forward your ideas on how we move forward and get out of this recession then.

Stop fighting other peoples wars.
Stop trying to police the world.
If we are able to conjure up money out of nowhere, start giving grants (not loans) to businesses, with conditions.
They must use the bank designated by the government to process all their money for a specific amount of time.
Stop charging business account holders to deposit cash ....it just encourages them to hold on to cash which then funds the black economy.
There should be incentives to business to pay cash into the bank.
Stop paying people to sit around doing nothing, take away their benefits if they turn down work.
Encourage British manufacturing by awarding government contracts to British companies.
Encourage legal immigrants into the tax paying system and remove illegal immigrants from the country.
Stop paying people to have children.
Teach children useful vocational skills in schools, abolish school league tables and national curriculums.
Bring in a form of national service, with everybody having to train and serve in some kind of community related enterprise........Fire Brigade, ambulance service, Waste collection, Recycling ....whatever.
Bring back apprenticeships.
The list is endless... the rot has well and truly set in and to suggest that we can buy our way out of this mess by pretending we have money that doesn`t exist and that everything will be ok in 2010.....well really !! rolleyes

You mean there are scroungers out there, who rake in benefits that could work?
I do not belive that for a second.....except for the scroungers who have " bad back syndrom ".

10 Feb 2009

We're not normally fans of Jeremy Clarkson but he got it completely right this time when he told Australian TV -
"We've got this one-eyed Scottish idiot in Britain called Gordon Brown"
Clarkson apologised later for referring to Brown's disbility and his race but said he wouldn't withdraw the statement that Brown was an idiot!
Just look at the bunch of drongos he's surrounded himself with - Mandelson, Hoon, Harperson, Blears, Straw, Darling, etc etc - not one of them could run a whelk stall properly.

10 Feb 2009

We're not normally fans of Jeremy Clarkson but he got it completely right this time when he told Australian TV -
"We've got this one-eyed Scottish idiot in Britain called Gordon Brown"
Clarkson apologised later for referring to Brown's disbility and his race but said he wouldn't withdraw the statement that Brown was an idiot!
Just look at the bunch of drongos he's surrounded himself with - Mandelson, Hoon, Harperson, Blears, Straw, Darling, etc etc - not one of them could run a whelk stall properly.

10 Feb 2009

Clarkson apologised later for referring to Brown's disbility and his race but said he wouldn't withdraw the statement that Brown was an idiot!
Just look at the bunch of drongos he's surrounded himself with - Mandelson, Hoon, Harperson, Blears, Straw, Darling, etc etc - not one of them could run a whelk stall properly.
well said ... when i came of voting age my dad told me never to vote labour .... never have done ... never will , they have screwed the country up twice in my life time already

10 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
large snip....
But I hope this link will make you laugh !!!
I googled "apprenticeships" and one of the top answers directed me to this

:giggle:
Now then, just how much of our tax was paid on creating that impressive website, not to mention the new flashy logo? rolleyes