Down Banding

13 Jul 2011

in previous years it was redundacies
it seem in this day and age taking an overall pay cut saves redundencies and in my mind a much fairer solution to nessasery spending cuts and not just local authority but also in manufacturing
an example

13 Jul 2011

Quote by Lizaleanrob
in previous years it was redundacies
it seem in this day and age taking an overall pay cut saves redundencies and in my mind a much fairer solution to nessasery spending cuts and not just local authority but also in manufacturing
an example

Downbanding isn't a new concept, its an area that should always be considered and offered to employees before redundancies are considered.
I have always offered pay dropping before making compulsory redundancies.
no-one has ever taken it up, they all seem to trust to luck that it wont be them losing their position.
BUT downbanding is very important for a business as redundancies don't usually help. whilst redundancy reduces the prime cost of the business it also prevents you doing more work so if it took 10 people to make 100 widgets in a day for a cost of 10K and you make 5 redundant then you only have the capacity to make 5...unless your workforce were only working at 50% efficiency.
But if your workforce took a cut of 15% then you could still make 100 widgets for a cost of and thereby able to supply for a cheaper price keeping the company afloat and 10 people in work.
but invariably this never happens and redundancies will begin...

13 Jul 2011

Quote by Rogue_trader
in previous years it was redundacies
it seem in this day and age taking an overall pay cut saves redundencies and in my mind a much fairer solution to nessasery spending cuts and not just local authority but also in manufacturing
an example

Downbanding isn't a new concept, its an area that should always be considered and offered to employees before redundancies are considered.
I have always offered pay dropping before making compulsory redundancies.
no-one has ever taken it up, they all seem to trust to luck that it wont be them losing their position.
BUT downbanding is very important for a business as redundancies don't usually help. whilst redundancy reduces the prime cost of the business it also prevents you doing more work so if it took 10 people to make 100 widgets in a day for a cost of 10K and you make 5 redundant then you only have the capacity to make 5...unless your workforce were only working at 50% efficiency.
But if your workforce took a cut of 15% then you could still make 100 widgets for a cost of and thereby able to supply for a cheaper price keeping the company afloat and 10 people in work.
but invariably this never happens and redundancies will begin...
funny that
but these are the same people who expect unity when they are made redundant :doh:

13 Jul 2011

I dont understand this bit. Surely redundancy downbanding and other measures are necessary because there is a reduced market for the widgets.

Quote by Rogue_trader
BUT downbanding is very important for a business as redundancies don't usually help. whilst redundancy reduces the prime cost of the business it also prevents you doing more work so if it took 10 people to make 100 widgets in a day for a cost of 10K and you make 5 redundant then you only have the capacity to make 5...unless your workforce were only working at 50% efficiency.

13 Jul 2011

perhaps they don't accept because total lack of trust in the employers....Firstly if the downbanding is going to work, it has to apply from the top to the bottom...it rarely does...just normally a small section. Secondly as happened to myself, downbanding by approx 15% was accepted, only for 6 months later the redundancies to take place anyway !! Also if it is expected that workforce downbands, then I would want written promises that we would beniefit from any upturn or increase in profitability. However as we all know this normally just means a bigger bonus for directors !!
Any wonder they have a lack of trust !!

13 Jul 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
I dont understand this bit. Surely redundancy downbanding and other measures are necessary because there is a reduced market for the widgets.

BUT downbanding is very important for a business as redundancies don't usually help. whilst redundancy reduces the prime cost of the business it also prevents you doing more work so if it took 10 people to make 100 widgets in a day for a cost of 10K and you make 5 redundant then you only have the capacity to make 5...unless your workforce were only working at 50% efficiency.

ah well ben you see there isn`t a reduced demand for widgets !!!there could be an influx of cheap widgets (poorly made ones at that. from foreign soils )so in that case you might have to make more widgets for less money to compete but you still wish to keep the quality of the widgets the same so you have to save in all areas
the economics of business are very simple you can only take out whats in it

13 Jul 2011

Quote by deancannock
perhaps they don't accept because total lack of trust in the employers....Firstly if the downbanding is going to work, it has to apply from the top to the bottom...it rarely does...just normally a small section. Secondly as happened to myself, downbanding by approx 15% was accepted, only for 6 months later the redundancies to take place anyway !! Also if it is expected that workforce downbands, then I would want written promises that we would beniefit from any upturn or increase in profitability. However as we all know this normally just means a bigger bonus for directors !!
Any wonder they have a lack of trust !!

none more clear than the big wigs in local government wink

13 Jul 2011

SO in order to compete with emerging nations we need to reduce the standard of living in the UK.
Sounds a bit lefty to me mind.

13 Jul 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
SO in order to compete with emerging nations we need to reduce the standard of living in the UK.
Sounds a bit lefty to me mind.

have a look around what you own ben how much is made in the uk ???????????
what about that bike your so fond of ???
computer your using
the tv , radio ,toaster ? oven ? fridge ? furniture ?
as we dont buy british we are infact reducing our own standard of living ben wink

13 Jul 2011

no amount of down banding, reductions in pay, redundancies, cuts in benefits, cuts in public spending or increase in taxation will make uk plc any more competetive to save jobs, pensions or benefits or repay an unrepayable fraudulent created debt that all countries are facing.
in attempting to try and repay debt by cutting the standard of living and thereby consumption, revenue falls correspondingly and consequently creates the need for more debt. a deflationary spiral unless the central bank creates more credit and lends it into existence at interest (increase in the money supply)inflation. the interest alone on all the debt that has now been created is greater than G.D.P. planet earth. it is unrepayable and was created by fraud.
how can greece repay hundreds of billions of euro's it never recieved. how can ireland, portugal, spain or italy ? how can we repay 200 billion that was given to failed banks in the uk (and thats fuck all to whats coming). impossible, so repudiate the debt and arrest the fraudsters and their politician puppets, put them on trial and ivestigate where the debt came from. or starve and freeze to death this coming winter.
take a look down your high street or city centre, notice the reduction in traffic jams and trust your own senses and not the headlies of the media. latest one, "unemployment has fallen but increase in jobless allowance seekers" tosh.
there is no coming out of this recession, double dip or green shoots. thats all media hype and bullshit. retail fuel sales are down 30% over the last 2 years. what does that tell you. "this is the mother of all crisies" and you aint seen nufin yet.

13 Jul 2011

Quote by gulsonroad30664
no amount of down banding, reductions in pay, redundancies, cuts in benefits, cuts in public spending or increase in taxation will make uk plc any more competetive to save jobs, pensions or benefits or repay an unrepayable fraudulent created debt that all countries are facing.
in attempting to try and repay debt by cutting the standard of living and thereby consumption, revenue falls correspondingly and consequently creates the need for more debt. a deflationary spiral unless the central bank creates more credit and lends it into existence at interest (increase in the money supply)inflation. the interest alone on all the debt that has now been created is greater than G.D.P. planet earth. it is unrepayable and was created by fraud.
how can greece repay hundreds of billions of euro's it never recieved. how can ireland, portugal, spain or italy ? how can we repay 200 billion that was given to failed banks in the uk (and thats fuck all to whats coming). impossible, so repudiate the debt and arrest the fraudsters and their politician puppets, put them on trial and ivestigate where the debt came from. or starve and freeze to death this coming winter.
take a look down your high street or city centre, notice the reduction in traffic jams and trust your own senses and not the headlies of the media. latest one, "unemployment has fallen but increase in jobless allowance seekers" tosh.
there is no coming out of this recession, double dip or green shoots. thats all media hype and bullshit. retail fuel sales are down 30% over the last 2 years. what does that tell you. "this is the mother of all crisies" and you aint seen nufin yet.

13 Jul 2011

Quote by gulsonroad30664
no amount of down banding, reductions in pay, redundancies, cuts in benefits, cuts in public spending or increase in taxation will make uk plc any more competetive to save jobs, pensions or benefits or repay an unrepayable fraudulent created debt that all countries are facing.
in attempting to try and repay debt by cutting the standard of living and thereby consumption, revenue falls correspondingly and consequently creates the need for more debt. a deflationary spiral unless the central bank creates more credit and lends it into existence at interest (increase in the money supply)inflation. the interest alone on all the debt that has now been created is greater than G.D.P. planet earth. it is unrepayable and was created by fraud.
how can greece repay hundreds of billions of euro's it never recieved. how can ireland, portugal, spain or italy ? how can we repay 200 billion that was given to failed banks in the uk (and thats fuck all to whats coming). impossible, so repudiate the debt and arrest the fraudsters and their politician puppets, put them on trial and ivestigate where the debt came from. or starve and freeze to death this coming winter.
take a look down your high street or city centre, notice the reduction in traffic jams and trust your own senses and not the headlies of the media. latest one, "unemployment has fallen but increase in jobless allowance seekers" tosh.
there is no coming out of this recession, double dip or green shoots. thats all media hype and bullshit. retail fuel sales are down 30% over the last 2 years. what does that tell you. "this is the mother of all crisies" and you aint seen nufin yet.

bloody hell. are you always this down beet about things? if i did not know better i would say you couyld possibly be one of those peeple who stand on a box in hyde park on a sunday shouting out about the end of the world is nigh :giggle:
i have looked at some of your past posts bloody hell you are depresed and now i am as well lol

13 Jul 2011

i have never said the end of the world is nigh and it aint. and i have total optimism that the world will continue for another millenia. i am not depressed either and if i sound like a broken record to some, i care not as reality is on my side regardless of the naysayers.
tell me there is light at the end of the tunnel and give me some evidence and i will consider it. green shoots if you like. the world economy is in a death spiral of mounting debt. to who and where did they get the credit to lend that became our debt ? mars ? they created it out of thin air and charge it at interest. FRAUD
then they transfere the debt to us via their puppets and steal all our money and assets and drive us into penury and send us off to war to kill and steal more for them based on lies. this is not depressing, it is the truth. it is.

13 Jul 2011

Quote by gulsonroad30664
to who and where did they get the credit to lend that became our debt

Would you care to be a little more specific as to who the "who" is that you refer to?

13 Jul 2011

Quote by Max777
to who and where did they get the credit to lend that became our debt

Would you care to be a little more specific as to who the "who" is that you refer to?
roger daltry and pete townsend of course. the lenders of course, the largest bond holders being the federal reserve amongst many other financial institutions, banks (commercial and retail) central banks and insurance companies, soveriegn funds etc as well you know max.

13 Jul 2011

No sorry Gulson, it's not as well I know. I know nothing of the sort but we have been here before ( many times) and as Foxy said, why feed the troll?

13 Jul 2011

I'll take a pay cut on the day that the people responsible for or current plight take one..... I doubt I'll be taking a pay cut
We are it seems in the surrealist china shop again ..... 'ooops we've broken it ....you're going to have to pay for that now' the answer is obvious to even the smallest child...'you fucking pay you broke it' (assuming the child is a foul mouthed little bleeder that is)

14 Jul 2011

The problem with pay cuts is this.
Say your busines stells you - we ar eall in theis together, a 10% cut across the board. What really happens.
Well, the guy taking home £20,000 and feeding his mortgage and family on that now takes home £18,000. Of which, his mortgage may take up to £10,000. Leaving (very rough figures here) £10,000 to live on.
The boss taking home £200,000 and feeding a family surely not that much bigger now takes home £180,000. What is he left to survive on after mortgage - well it sure as hell isn't as little as £10k More like £100k.
In this case - everyone taling a 10% pey cut ISN'T fair. Some people simply can't afford a substantial cut and others would barely notice. Taking a cut that LEAVES each with the same amount is fairer. And would allow the pain to be spread more evenly.

16 Jul 2011

Quote by deancannock
only for 6 months later the redundancies to take place anyway

Very unfortunate but on the plus side (if there is a plus side with redundancy) those people still had a job for an extra six months with an additional six months worth of redundancy entitlement (albeit at 15% less) and they were paying taxes instead of potentially claiming benefits.

Quote by deancannock
we would beniefit from any upturn or increase in profitability

Sounds like a great idea, but on the flip side would you also be willing to be liable for any losses the employer would make?
You should go work for the Co-operative or John Lewis Partnership

Quote by Lizaleanrob
have a look around what you own ben how much is made in the uk ???????????

We all want high quality goods at low prices. Most UK manufacturers can't compete as costs here are too high. In an ideal world everything we purchase would be UK sourced and manufactured.
However, just because goods aren't made in the UK doesn't mean that the UK economy isn't benefiting. Products conceived/designed in the UK can be manufactured abroad or the the design is sold under license with a royalty being paid to the UK company for every item made.

Quote by foxylady2209
everyone taling a 10% pey cut ISN'T fair

No pay cuts are fair (!) but I suspect most employers are concentrating on keeping their businesses afloat and workforce in a job rather than social economics. Why not take it further and give the largest pay cuts in the workforce to those who have the most disposable income?
Another way to look at it is the pay cut the boss took was enough to keep a worker employed - he could've been made redundant.

16 Jul 2011

Too much expectation by people in this country that (delete your chosen category) the rich, the politicians, the bankers, Labour, Tories, industrial bosses, industrial managers or whoever should not only be blamed for individual woes but flogged to death, hung out to dfry and spat on at every opportunity.
Waken up folks - this is your life - get a grip of it and sort your own problems out. If you want more of what you have got at the moment, keep on doing what you are doing that way you can be assured nothing will change other than the direction you point the finger of blame.
We have had it far too good for far too long in this country and the people are fat and lazy with good life complacency. It is your life, take control, make changes and improve your own lives and stop looking to blame other people. Life is for living and it will be over far too quickly - quit moaning and start living.

16 Jul 2011

Quote by Too Hot
Life is for living and it will be over far too quickly - quit moaning and start living.

I like this sentance. :thumbup:
But on the flip side, I also like a good moan wink

Dave_Notts

17 Jul 2011

Quote by spideyuk

have a look around what you own ben how much is made in the uk ???????????

We all want high quality goods at low prices. Most UK manufacturers can't compete as costs here are too high. In an ideal world everything we purchase would be UK sourced and manufactured.
However, just because goods aren't made in the UK doesn't mean that the UK economy isn't benefiting. Products conceived/designed in the UK can be manufactured abroad or the the design is sold under license with a royalty being paid to the UK company for every item made.

its a fair point spidey but it is only token payments and not really an industry employing people in the UK etc etc wink

25 Jul 2011

Quote by Too Hot
Too much expectation by people in this country that (delete your chosen category) the rich, the politicians, the bankers, Labour, Tories, industrial bosses, industrial managers or whoever should not only be blamed for individual woes but flogged to death, hung out to dfry and spat on at every opportunity.
Not individual woes but don't you think they may possibly have a hand in the economic climate that creates some (many)of them??
Waken up folks - this is your life - get a grip of it and sort your own problems out. If you want more of what you have got at the moment, keep on doing what you are doing that way you can be assured nothing will change other than the direction you point the finger of blame.
Sounds great unfortunately many are not actually in the position to be entirely masters of their own fate....it's difficult to carry on with what you're doing when you've just been made redundant
We have had it far too good for far too long in this country and the people are fat and lazy with good life complacency. It is your life, take control, make changes and improve your own lives and stop looking to blame other people. Life is for living and it will be over far too quickly - quit moaning and start living.
Really??? would that be the increasing numbers of people living the easy life below the poverty line or someone else then

28 Jul 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Too much expectation by people in this country that (delete your chosen category) the rich, the politicians, the bankers, Labour, Tories, industrial bosses, industrial managers or whoever should not only be blamed for individual woes but flogged to death, hung out to dfry and spat on at every opportunity.
Not individual woes but don't you think they may possibly have a hand in the economic climate that creates some (many)of them??
Waken up folks - this is your life - get a grip of it and sort your own problems out. If you want more of what you have got at the moment, keep on doing what you are doing that way you can be assured nothing will change other than the direction you point the finger of blame.
Sounds great unfortunately many are not actually in the position to be entirely masters of their own fate....it's difficult to carry on with what you're doing when you've just been made redundant
We have had it far too good for far too long in this country and the people are fat and lazy with good life complacency. It is your life, take control, make changes and improve your own lives and stop looking to blame other people. Life is for living and it will be over far too quickly - quit moaning and start living.
Really??? would that be the increasing numbers of people living the easy life below the poverty line or someone else then

Sorry Fella but this is bollocks. You are just another one of those wringing your hands in despair and blaming everyone else types. It is your life, you make your decisions, you get on your bike, you sort your own life out.
Evolution has happened as long as man has inhabited the earth and there have been disasters man made and natural which have required Continents, Countries and Empires to change and adapt - let alone little crisis like this one. We go through micro evolutions through our lifetime and we choose how to deal with the ups and downs, just like mankind has done throughout time.
you want to blame someone - go ahead
You want to feel helpless cos you have been made redundant - go ahead
You want to feel sorry for yourself - go ahead
But nothing will change unless you do somdething about it and act.
BTW I was made redundant at Christmas 2008 as a result of the recession - I am just a regular guy by the way - no a levels, spirit levels or degrees in this house. I was out of work for 11 days and have since changed jobs again and improved myself simply by taking on a different riole, networking with others and looking for opportunity.

28 Jul 2011

Quote by Too Hot
Too much expectation by people in this country that (delete your chosen category) the rich, the politicians, the bankers, Labour, Tories, industrial bosses, industrial managers or whoever should not only be blamed for individual woes but flogged to death, hung out to dfry and spat on at every opportunity.
Not individual woes but don't you think they may possibly have a hand in the economic climate that creates some (many)of them??
Waken up folks - this is your life - get a grip of it and sort your own problems out. If you want more of what you have got at the moment, keep on doing what you are doing that way you can be assured nothing will change other than the direction you point the finger of blame.
Sounds great unfortunately many are not actually in the position to be entirely masters of their own fate....it's difficult to carry on with what you're doing when you've just been made redundant
We have had it far too good for far too long in this country and the people are fat and lazy with good life complacency. It is your life, take control, make changes and improve your own lives and stop looking to blame other people. Life is for living and it will be over far too quickly - quit moaning and start living.
Really??? would that be the increasing numbers of people living the easy life below the poverty line or someone else then

Sorry Fella but this is bollocks. You are just another one of those wringing your hands in despair and blaming everyone else types. It is your life, you make your decisions, you get on your bike, you sort your own life out.
Evolution has happened as long as man has inhabited the earth and there have been disasters man made and natural which have required Continents, Countries and Empires to change and adapt - let alone little crisis like this one. We go through micro evolutions through our lifetime and we choose how to deal with the ups and downs, just like mankind has done throughout time.
you want to blame someone - go ahead
You want to feel helpless cos you have been made redundant - go ahead
You want to feel sorry for yourself - go ahead
But nothing will change unless you do somdething about it and act.
BTW I was made redundant at Christmas 2008 as a result of the recession - I am just a regular guy by the way - no a levels, spirit levels or degrees in this house. I was out of work for 11 days and have since changed jobs again and improved myself simply by taking on a different riole, networking with others and looking for opportunity.
I don't and haven't denied that the individual has responsibility for their actions...but they are rarely solely responsible for their circumstance .... You were able to pick yourself up and act after being made redundant, well done (no irony intended well done),some aren't,some crumble under the stress.
I don't blame anyone for the results of my choices and actions,but like everyone else on the planet I am not the sole master of my circumstance .. and that is often made worse by the actions of others (I did not vote for this government but I will be taxed by them .. I have no real choice about this)
How we react to things is rarely a matter of choice it is a matter of personality and as everyone has a different one of those everyones reactions to a given circumstance will be unique
So..

Quote by Too Hot
you want to blame someone - go ahead
You want to feel helpless cos you have been made redundant - go ahead
You want to feel sorry for yourself - go ahead

I don't WANT to blame someone but sometimes someone is at fault
I don't WANT to feel helpless but sometimes people ARE helpless
I don't WANT to feel sorry for myself but sometimes it's a valid reaction
Neither you or I are representative of all of humanity ,no-one is. You obviously reacted well to the problems that you were presented with (not, I hasten to add of your own making I imagine)again well done,not everyone is built like you, some rage, some cope, some crumble ... to dismiss those who react differently to yourself is to write off vast swathes of the population who may have a valuable contribution to make if someone would just help them back to their feet.
P.S. the evolution thing.....total red herring .. we are successful as a species because we act as a group rather than as individuals
The whole Thatcher no such thing as society self determination thing is bollocks we are inter-dependant in both micro and macrocosm ... as the saying goes no man is an island .... and those that try to be, tend to get swamped