Fixing The Irish Problem

13 Dec 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts
So guls, you have gone two steps now after all this time of asking for the umpteenth time without you giving an answer.
1) Repudiate the debt
2) Nationalise the bank of england and have the elected government create credit not private banks
So after we tell everyone that we do not owe our national debt anymore so they can go whistle for their money and our new government with our new nationalised bank creates credit...........who will want to trade with us knowing that we can and will default on any of our future loans
At least we are starting to get there slowly. How will you encourage foreign investors or buyers to trade with us
Dave_Notts

So now we have a third point:
3) They will trade with us as they are in the same boat.
Now is this hoping or fact? Your policies and proof are hard to accept as you are demonstrating it with fact based evidence.............just relying on telling me that you work in the financial sector and you have a good wage. You maybe right, but that is one helluva gamble.
Dave_Notts

13 Dec 2010

Quote by Max777
regardless of what you read on the company of the bank of englands website, the bank of england company limited is a private bank with private shareholders. only its debt was nationalised in 1946. it issues credit (banknotes, coin and computer digits) AT INTEREST that becomes debt at inception.
most other countries on the planet with the possible exception of china, but i would question that, are in debt to the international private banking cartel. iceland has refused to accept the debt forced upon it by the criminal (fraud, lawbreaking) landski bankski's and called for an international moretorium on debt. iceland is not the first. many countries from argentina in south america to malaya in the far east have rejected terms forced upon them by the international private banking cartel's front organisation, the i.m.f. and declared a moretorium on their debt.
would other countries trade with us if we repudiated the fictitous debt of financial instruments like credit default swaps ? of coarse they would. like they have before but more importantly because, they are in the same boat.
the german and french governments have just decided that they are not going to bail out the peripheral economies of the euro zone not because they are dirty rotters, but because they cant. the debt is too big even for them. watch this week as the hedgefund hyenas short irish, greek, portugese and spanish bonds to drive up the return for the increase risk that hangs over those countries.
no amount of increase in taxes and reductions in services or benefits, on top of those already imposed by the i.m.f. and e.c.b. on the populations (tax payers) to repay the debt created by the private banks can stop the collapse but unfortunately, the local politicians will try with all manner of bullshit explanations to cover up where the fraud comes from.
your sincerly and honestly.
ALF GARNET

Dear Alf
Everything I have ever read or been led to understand about the Bank of England tells me that the bank was nationalised by the then Labour Government in 1946, as part of their nationalisation plans. Now you tell me that isn't the case, please provide proof of your claim that it's a private company so I can see with my own eyes.
I also have to question your understanding of the national debt. I have provided a link to a website which is very informative and easy to understand and details the make up of that debt. It states that 39% of the debt is owed to insurance companies and pension funds. Shall we repudiate that debt and totally destroy people's pensions? You recently claimed that the government was out to steal our pensions, yet you advocate doing exactly the same.

Hopefully, this may provide some enlightenment. Somethings in life are exactly as they seem, one doesn't have to look for conspiracies at every turn.
Yours even more sincerely and honestly
A concerned wellwisher well wisher. research money as debt but before you do, get out a £10, £20 or £50 note and magnifiying glass and examine every inch and write down on paper all the words on it.
regards alf

13 Dec 2010

An interesting picture

13 Dec 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts
So guls, you have gone two steps now after all this time of asking for the umpteenth time without you giving an answer.
1) Repudiate the debt
2) Nationalise the bank of england and have the elected government create credit not private banks
So after we tell everyone that we do not owe our national debt anymore so they can go whistle for their money and our new government with our new nationalised bank creates credit...........who will want to trade with us knowing that we can and will default on any of our future loans
At least we are starting to get there slowly. How will you encourage foreign investors or buyers to trade with us
Dave_Notts

So now we have a third point:
3) They will trade with us as they are in the same boat.
Now is this hoping or fact? Your policies and proof are hard to accept as you are demonstrating it with fact based evidence.............just relying on telling me that you work in the financial sector and you have a good wage. You maybe right, but that is one helluva gamble.
dave research money as debt and go to " " it should help.
when people ask for solutions, i say it's not for me to lead you but for you to be enpowered with the knowledge to lead yourself. solutions come from knowledge not ignorance.
if you do not believe my "rants" (so discribed out of hostility to the conclusions) thats o.k but, i am absolutely certain that while i may be slandered and libeled now, as the crisis unfolds, i will be listened to and debated with, intelligently.
regards. alf
Dave_Notts

13 Dec 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
An interesting picture

Looking at that graph, the biggest spikes are around the times of the American War of Independance, I am sure we were at war with France at that time as well over something or other where we kicked their arse, the beginning of the 1800 was the Napoleonic Wars (French arses kicked again), 1910-1950 was the two world wars and the world depression. The times when the debt was low was when peace prevailed.
Dave_Notts

13 Dec 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
An interesting picture

sorry ben, this chart belongs in a novel. is it in terms of silver or gold value or fiat paper promisory notes. inflation alone (money supply) proves this chart to be nonsensical. n.b. when i made reference previously to the private bank of england being created in 1692, i was chastened by another member.
but great to see you researching. regards alf

13 Dec 2010

Quote by gulsonroad30664
An interesting picture

sorry ben, this chart belongs in a novel. is it in terms of silver or gold value or fiat paper promisory notes. inflation alone (money supply) proves this chart to be nonsensical. n.b. when i made reference previously to the private bank of england being created in 1692, i was chastened by another member. but great to see you researching. regards alf
But you didn't provide the proof to substantiate your claims.......because we both know you can't!

13 Dec 2010

Well it was created, a bunch of bankers helped raise money to fight a war as I recall. Im sure they have a website with all the info on.

13 Dec 2010

Quote by gulsonroad30664
dave research money as debt and go to " " it should help.
when people ask for solutions, i say it's not for me to lead you but for you to be enpowered with the knowledge to lead yourself. solutions come from knowledge not ignorance.
if you do not believe my "rants" (so discribed out of hostility to the conclusions) thats o.k but, i am absolutely certain that while i may be slandered and libeled now, as the crisis unfolds, i will be listened to and debated with, intelligently.
regards. alf

Guls
You are resorting to riddles, without any explanation at all. You have opened up areas that I have had no knowledge of and I had to look them up and follow your links, but they do not say anything about what you say.
For example. Iceland have repudiated the debt but now recieve no trade, grants, investment from foreign investment, etc. Their parliament are now back at the bargaining table with the EU to broker a deal. This isn't what you told me. You said they have repudiated and lived happily ever after.
Now regarding your post above. "when people ask for solutions, i say it's not for me to lead you but for you to be enpowered with the knowledge to lead yourself" This is just a cop out in my eyes, as you are unable to come up with a theoretical solution to this crisis that could stand scrutiny by others.
I hold no hostility to your postings, I just do not understand the riddles within them. Sorry but I am not an accountant or economist so would like things explained in simple terms. Your inability to do this makes me wonder if you actually want to be taken seriously.
You cannot be slandered or libelled in a written format. It is either one or the other......I can't remember which one it is though.
Everybody who has engaged in these discussions throughout a lot of pages are unintelligent? Thanks Guls
Dave_Notts

13 Dec 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
Well it was created, a bunch of bankers helped raise money to fight a war as I recall. Im sure they have a website with all the info on.

They do, including the fact that it was nationalised in 1946.

13 Dec 2010

OK Gulson
The basis for all your claims regarding bankers is that the Bank of England is a privately owned bank, which lends to the government and charges interest on that debt. (This is an often repeated claim on conspiracy websites)
If the above facts are true, you should be able to provide proof. Please do so.

13 Dec 2010

Guls is laughing at you all.

13 Dec 2010

Quote by essex34m
Guls is laughing at you all.

Sadly, I don't think he is.

13 Dec 2010

Quote by Max777
An interesting picture

sorry ben, this chart belongs in a novel. is it in terms of silver or gold value or fiat paper promisory notes. inflation alone (money supply) proves this chart to be nonsensical. n.b. when i made reference previously to the private bank of england being created in 1692, i was chastened by another member. but great to see you researching. regards alf
But you didn't provide the proof to substantiate your claims.......because we both know you can't!
please max, try not to include me in your plural reference "both". i can prove everything i have said. i am not prepared to enter into sermantics about 1692, 1693 or 1694. it is irrelevent to the subject matters under discussion and merely a diversion away from them.
if you want to discuss your and the general veiws created by mainstream learning about credit/debt and finance, i am willing to do so. i will not pick up anyone about their interpretation as to the date and times relating to the south sea islands bubble, the napoleonic wars, the american war of indepedance and civil war, the first world war, sterlings removal from the gold standard, the second world war and the corresponding public debt at those times. to be pedantic about absolutes is to bring attention to irrelevent minutia and a diversion away from the general principles under discussion.
the same as reference to rants and alf garnet characters.
we are living through the greatest financial crisis in history. fact. now discuss/debate and consider, disregard or learn. i am not interested in personal attacks but promise, i will never complain to a moderator when i am.
regards alf

13 Dec 2010

Quote by gulsonroad30664
An interesting picture

sorry ben, this chart belongs in a novel. is it in terms of silver or gold value or fiat paper promisory notes. inflation alone (money supply) proves this chart to be nonsensical. n.b. when i made reference previously to the private bank of england being created in 1692, i was chastened by another member. but great to see you researching. regards alf
But you didn't provide the proof to substantiate your claims.......because we both know you can't!
please max, try not to include me in your plural reference "both". i can prove everything i have said. i am not prepared to enter into sermantics about 1692, 1693 or 1694. it is irrelevent to the subject matters under discussion and merely a diversion away from them.
if you want to discuss your and the general veiws created by mainstream learning about credit/debt and finance, i am willing to do so. i will not pick up anyone about their interpretation as to the date and times relating to the south sea islands bubble, the napoleonic wars, the american war of indepedance and civil war, the first world war, sterlings removal from the gold standard, the second world war and the corresponding public debt at those times. to be pedantic about absolutes is to bring attention to irrelevent minutia and a diversion away from the general principles under discussion.
the same as reference to rants and alf garnet characters.
we are living through the greatest financial crisis in history. fact. now discuss/debate and consider, disregard or learn. i am not interested in personal attacks but promise, i will never complain to a moderator when i am.
regards alf
OK, please do so. The rest of your post is just evasive sh*t

13 Dec 2010

Quote by Max777
Well it was created, a bunch of bankers helped raise money to fight a war as I recall. Im sure they have a website with all the info on.

They do, including the fact that it was nationalised in 1946.
so, the bank of england, that was created by a small group of private bankers in 1692, 1693, 1694 who came over from europe, financed the greatest expansion of merchantile empire the world has ever known, financed umpteen expansionary wars and continental takeovers along with the industrial revolution, the greatest expansion of production the world has ever known, at the end of world war 2, gave up their power of the creation of credit to a bunch of bankrupt social democrats without a shot being fired ?
you max and the b.o.e. website must be dreamin. oh, in my opinion.
regards alf

13 Dec 2010

Quote by gulsonroad30664
Well it was created, a bunch of bankers helped raise money to fight a war as I recall. Im sure they have a website with all the info on.

They do, including the fact that it was nationalised in 1946.
so, the bank of england, that was created by a small group of private bankers in 1692, 1693, 1694 who came over from europe, financed the greatest expansion of merchantile empire the world has ever known, financed umpteen expansionary wars and continental takeovers along with the industrial revolution, the greatest expansion of production the world has ever known, at the end of world war 2, gave up their power of the creation of credit to a bunch of bankrupt social democrats without a shot being fired ?
you max and the b.o.e. website must be dreamin. oh, in my opinion.
regards alf
Is that the best you could do? Still no proof then! Sorry Gulson, but you are really full of bull. You should stick to your conspiracy sites, you will never be questioned there!!!!

13 Dec 2010

Quote by gulsonroad30664
Well it was created, a bunch of bankers helped raise money to fight a war as I recall. Im sure they have a website with all the info on.

They do, including the fact that it was nationalised in 1946.
so, the bank of england, that was created by a small group of private bankers in 1692, 1693, 1694 who came over from europe, financed the greatest expansion of merchantile empire the world has ever known, financed umpteen expansionary wars and continental takeovers along with the industrial revolution, the greatest expansion of production the world has ever known, at the end of world war 2, gave up their power of the creation of credit to a bunch of bankrupt social democrats without a shot being fired ?
you max and the b.o.e. website must be dreamin. oh, in my opinion.
regards alf

Quote by Max777
i am not prepared to enter into sermantics about 1692, 1693 or 1694. it is irrelevent to the subject matters under discussion and merely a diversion away from them.

Make your mind up.

13 Dec 2010

oh and, i ask again, if the bank of england is nationalised (owned by the state in the guise of hmg) and it can create x billions to give to private banks to shore up their balance sheets, then who do the fuck do we owe it to ?
this question does not arise from a conspiracy website, i do not adhere to aliens having landed and do not have conspiricist veiws or conspire with anyone for any purposes.
alf

13 Dec 2010

Quote by gulsonroad30664
oh and, i ask again, if the bank of england is nationalised (owned by the state in the guise of hmg) and it can create x billions to give to private banks to shore up their balance sheets, then who do the fuck do we owe it to ?
this question does not arise from a conspiracy website, i do not adhere to aliens having landed and do not have conspiricist veiws or conspire with anyone for any purposes.
alf

still no proof!! dunno

13 Dec 2010

Quote by Max777
oh and, i ask again, if the bank of england is nationalised (owned by the state in the guise of hmg) and it can create x billions to give to private banks to shore up their balance sheets, then who do the fuck do we owe it to ?
this question does not arise from a conspiracy website, i do not adhere to aliens having landed and do not have conspiricist veiws or conspire with anyone for any purposes.
alf

still no proof!! dunno

the absolute proof is contained within the question max.

13 Dec 2010

Here you go Gulson
Update: For some reason, many people think the Bank of England is privately owned by the Rothschilds. (There is a similar conspiracy theory about the US Federal Reserve). I wrote to the Bank of England and asked for clarification. This was there reply.
The Bank of England is the central bank of the United Kingdom and was established as a corporate body by Royal Charter under the Bank of England Act 1694. The Bank was nationalised on 1 March 1946, and gained operational independence to set interest rates in 1997 (the Bank of England Act 1998 Part II sets out the responsibilities and objectives of the Bank in relation to monetary policy).
The Bank is a public sector institution, wholly-owned by the government, but accountable to Parliament. The entire capital of the Bank is, in fact, held by the Treasury solicitor on behalf of HM Treasury. Each year, the Bank is required to submit its Report and Accounts to Parliament, via the Chancellor of the Exchequer. For more information you may be interested to see the Bank’s latest Report and Accounts, which can be found on our website at:
the above can be found at

So, you going to disprove that?

13 Dec 2010

Quote by Max777
Here you go Gulson
Update: For some reason, many people think the Bank of England is privately owned by the Rothschilds. (There is a similar conspiracy theory about the US Federal Reserve). I wrote to the Bank of England and asked for clarification. This was there reply.
The Bank of England is the central bank of the United Kingdom and was established as a corporate body by Royal Charter under the Bank of England Act 1694. The Bank was nationalised on 1 March 1946, and gained operational independence to set interest rates in 1997 (the Bank of England Act 1998 Part II sets out the responsibilities and objectives of the Bank in relation to monetary policy).
The Bank is a public sector institution, wholly-owned by the government, but accountable to Parliament. The entire capital of the Bank is, in fact, held by the Treasury solicitor on behalf of HM Treasury. Each year, the Bank is required to submit its Report and Accounts to Parliament, via the Chancellor of the Exchequer. For more information you may be interested to see the Bank’s latest Report and Accounts, which can be found on our /publications/annualreport/
the above can be found at

So, you going to disprove that?

read ambrose evans-pritchard and liam halligans reports in the financial section of todays telegraph and you will see how serious matters really are.
no, i am not going to disprove the bullshit in the website of the b.o.e. that is for public consumption. the same as i dont listen to politicians lying publicly or in parliament about weapons of mass destruction or swine flu pandemics or global warming and i dont come to conclusions from conspiracy theorists websites and the b.o.e.'s certainly is, along with many other mainstream sites like that of the university of east anglia or the inter-governmental panel on climate control or the n.h.s. site on swine flu.
regards. ranting alf conspiracist

13 Dec 2010

Quote by gulsonroad30664
Here you go Gulson
Update: For some reason, many people think the Bank of England is privately owned by the Rothschilds. (There is a similar conspiracy theory about the US Federal Reserve). I wrote to the Bank of England and asked for clarification. This was there reply.
The Bank of England is the central bank of the United Kingdom and was established as a corporate body by Royal Charter under the Bank of England Act 1694. The Bank was nationalised on 1 March 1946, and gained operational independence to set interest rates in 1997 (the Bank of England Act 1998 Part II sets out the responsibilities and objectives of the Bank in relation to monetary policy).
The Bank is a public sector institution, wholly-owned by the government, but accountable to Parliament. The entire capital of the Bank is, in fact, held by the Treasury solicitor on behalf of HM Treasury. Each year, the Bank is required to submit its Report and Accounts to Parliament, via the Chancellor of the Exchequer. For more information you may be interested to see the Bank’s latest Report and Accounts, which can be found on our /publications/annualreport/
the above can be found at

So, you going to disprove that?

read ambrose evans-pritchard and liam halligans reports in the financial section of todays telegraph and you will see how serious matters really are.
no, i am not going to disprove the bullshit in the website of the b.o.e. that is for public consumption. the same as i dont listen to politicians lying publicly or in parliament about weapons of mass destruction or swine flu pandemics or global warming and i dont come to conclusions from conspiracy theorists websites and the b.o.e.'s certainly is, along with many other mainstream sites like that of the university of east anglia or the inter-governmental panel on climate control or the n.h.s. site on swine flu.
regards. ranting alf conspiracist
Thought not!!!

13 Dec 2010

not to worry, the mainstream websites and info are right and i am totally wrong. i made it all up. there is no crisis in the monetary system or banking. but if there were, the professionals that would have got us into a mess will have a solution and if we go along with what they would prescibe, everything would be alright again. your right max. i cant prove anything and everything i have described is not happening. its all the product of my vivid imagination and the influence of conspiracy websites on me.
please forgive me for creating such a false, far from reality scenario based on hearsay with absolutely no proof to back it up.
regards alf

13 Dec 2010

Quote by essex34m
Well it was created, a bunch of bankers helped raise money to fight a war as I recall. Im sure they have a website with all the info on.

They do, including the fact that it was nationalised in 1946.
so, the bank of england, that was created by a small group of private bankers in 1692, 1693, 1694 who came over from europe, financed the greatest expansion of merchantile empire the world has ever known, financed umpteen expansionary wars and continental takeovers along with the industrial revolution, the greatest expansion of production the world has ever known, at the end of world war 2, gave up their power of the creation of credit to a bunch of bankrupt social democrats without a shot being fired ?
you max and the b.o.e. website must be dreamin. oh, in my opinion.
regards alf

Quote by Max777
i am not prepared to enter into sermantics about 1692, 1693 or 1694. it is irrelevent to the subject matters under discussion and merely a diversion away from them.

Make your mind up.
Think you got your quotes mixed up there Essex wink

13 Dec 2010

Quote by gulsonroad30664
not to worry, the mainstream websites and info are right and i am totally wrong. i made it all up. there is no crisis in the monetary system or banking. but if there were, the professionals that would have got us into a mess will have a solution and if we go along with what they would prescibe, everything would be alright again. your right max. i cant prove anything and everything i have described is not happening. its all the product of my vivid imagination and the influence of conspiracy websites on me.
please forgive me for creating such a false, far from reality scenario based on hearsay with absolutely no proof to back it up.
regards alf

There is a crisis in the monetary system, there is no doubt about that but not for he reasons you keep ranting on about. You said you could prove everything you have said, I have asked you repeatedly to do so and you have responded with your usual riddles and nonsense.
Either put up or shut up!

13 Dec 2010

So the facts are you cannot or will not prove your own points dunno

Great debate :thumbup:
Now even I managed to find something that you were alluding to when asked to look at money as debt. It's a short film isn't it? By a Canadian artist who said on his own website when flaws were pointed out in the movie:

When I made Money as Debt I had the assistance of 4 consultants who all had much more experience and knowledge of the money system than I did. Two of them were the source of this idea. None of them flagged this point as a problem. However, it has been one of two main criticisms of my movie and in the revised edition will be replaced with less contentious information. Unfortunately, if this information is actually misleading, it is rather late to correct it given that millions have already viewed the movie.

So he has made a mistake, blamed it on the "consultants", and since millions have seen it, it is too late to change. Please tell me this is not your evidence?
Dave_Notts

13 Dec 2010

Quote by gulsonroad30664
not to worry, the mainstream websites and info are right and i am totally wrong.

The heterodox economic and libertarian groups also dispute your thoughts as well, not just the mainstream.
Dave_Notts

13 Dec 2010

Quote by Max777
not to worry, the mainstream websites and info are right and i am totally wrong. i made it all up. there is no crisis in the monetary system or banking. but if there were, the professionals that would have got us into a mess will have a solution and if we go along with what they would prescibe, everything would be alright again. your right max. i cant prove anything and everything i have described is not happening. its all the product of my vivid imagination and the influence of conspiracy websites on me.
please forgive me for creating such a false, far from reality scenario based on hearsay with absolutely no proof to back it up.
regards alf

There is a crisis in the monetary system, there is no doubt about that but not for he reasons you keep ranting on about. You said you could prove everything you have said, I have asked you repeatedly to do so and you have responded with your usual riddles and nonsense.
Either put up or shut up! how rude max. even though you continually attempt to ridicule me, i have never said to you, come up with a solution or shut up. i do not need to come up with proof. you continually research the subject (even though you are misinformed by mainstream information) and will continue to do so because some ranting alf garnet has stimulated questions in your mind as to what is really going on and what your told in the mainstream media does'nt add up.
there is a crisis in the monetary system, independent of my rants, it is. it is not getting better or disipating, it is getting worse regarless of what we are being sold as a solution from one moment to another. and you know that.
the amount of debt that has been created in the world, owed to someone ? can never, ever be pepaid and you know that as well so stop attacking me and join with me to identify it and come up with solutions. to accept the debt and try to repay it is totally impossible. and you probably realise that too.
regards alf