So to Frack or not to Frack ?
1300 cubic metres of gas in the UK, 10% of which would supply all the UKs gas needs for 40 years, gas prices would drop, jobs would be created, perhaps more gas powered cars or machinery introduced to reap the cheaper benefits for this fuel.
A massive boost to the UK taxman in revenue
Cheaper electricity
Cheaper manufacturing
Extra revenue for the farmers who own the land the rigs are placed on.
Sounds great.
But the downside, 100,000 drilling sites would be needed to get the 10% we need, spread all over the UK countryside.
Possible water contamination in some areas.
Blotches/scars on the landscape
The downside for the most part could be avoided.
Triple casing on pipes prevents water contamination
With so much money to be made/saved why cant we house those ugly pumps in pretty little log cabins so the landscape still looks rural ?
Estonia gets ALL its gas from fracking
The USA is getting more and more, in the US the mistakes have been made and we can learn from that, personally I think that legislated correctly we could benefit greatly from this.
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Fracking
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suspect that the pros will match the cons. One thing I don't believe is that the price to the general public would drop, we are at the bottom of the food chain after the shareholders, tax man and big business.
100,000 rigs?, we are a small highly populated country, you will have drilling rig close to you.
Would be nice to see some serious money going towards renewables such as wave and tidal power, the recent Dyson award of I believe £2k for further research won't get very far.
100,000 rigs?, we are a small highly populated country, you will have drilling rig close to you.
Would be nice to see some serious money going towards renewables such as wave and tidal power, the recent Dyson award of I believe £2k for further research won't get very far.
Don't know enough to decide whether it's good or bad. But I do not believe for an instant that it will reduce prices, it will just increase profits. Maybe I am getting cynical in my old age, but after 65 years I realise the only thing you can be sure of is that all sides lie to get what they want.
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
So to Frack or not to Frack ?
1300 cubic metres of gas in the UK, 10% of which would supply all the UKs gas needs for 40 years, gas prices would drop, jobs would be created, perhaps more gas powered cars or machinery introduced to reap the cheaper benefits for this fuel.
The price would never drop, as we would have to pay for the fracking drill to be set up in the first place and then we would pay for it's continued running costs.
Quote by MidsCouple24VAT from the end user would still be the same at 5%. Corporate taxes are beyond me, but i don't think there would be enough of a boot to be described as 'massive' considering that other energy methods such as coal and north ea gas would be drawndown and therefore contributing less to the corporation.
A massive boost to the UK taxman in revenue
Quote by MidsCouple24Prove it.
Cheaper electricity
Quote by MidsCouple24Based on what?
Cheaper manufacturing
Extra revenue for the farmers who own the land the rigs are placed on.Very true that there would be extra revenue for the land owners. However most farmers rent the land, so surely the land owner would benefit more?
Quote by MidsCouple24Certainly does.
Sounds great.
Quote by MidsCouple24When you say drilling sites do you mean actual sites, or individual drills? And why would they all be in the countryside? surely some gas would be available in inner city brownfield sites? or is it just yet more scaremongering?
But the downside, 100,000 drilling sites would be needed to get the 10% we need, spread all over the UK countryside.
Quote by MidsCouple24Which areas? What is the probability? and how would the water contamination occur?
Possible water contamination in some areas.
Quote by MidsCouple24Worse than quarries, open pits and factories?
Blotches/scars on the landscape
Quote by MidsCouple24Agreed.
The downside for the most part could be avoided.
Quote by MidsCouple24So wouldn't this prevent
Triple casing on pipes prevents water contamination
Quote by MidsCouple24Agreed, providing 200 foot tall log cabins aren't considered unsightly.
With so much money to be made/saved why cant we house those ugly pumps in pretty little log cabins so the landscape still looks rural ?
Quote by MidsCouple24No, it doesn't.
Estonia gets ALL its gas from fracking
Quote by MidsCouple24Agreed.
The USA is getting more and more, in the US the mistakes have been made and we can learn from that, personally I think that legislated correctly we could benefit greatly from this.
Sexpert
I am reading this thread along with the one about wave technology with interest. If the race is for renewable energy, fracking is not the way forward. But as part of an integrated energy plan, it probably has it's place as long as all the safe guards are put into place.
With renewable energy in it's infancy and (as even the greatest champions of it concede) not reliable 24/7 are we better to conserve what energy we have rather than hope that somebody comes up with a miracle energy source?
Every new or re-cycled idea always seems too good to be true and from experience it always is. The truth is that the western world is wasteful when it comes to just about everything and I would take Mr Dyson's patronage with a pinch of salt, he appears to be a rampant self-publicist.
With renewable energy in it's infancy and (as even the greatest champions of it concede) not reliable 24/7 are we better to conserve what energy we have rather than hope that somebody comes up with a miracle energy source?
Every new or re-cycled idea always seems too good to be true and from experience it always is. The truth is that the western world is wasteful when it comes to just about everything and I would take Mr Dyson's patronage with a pinch of salt, he appears to be a rampant self-publicist.
Quote by Gerty35
suspect that the pros will match the cons. One thing I don't believe is that the price to the general public would drop, we are at the bottom of the food chain after the shareholders, tax man and big business.
100,000 rigs?, we are a small highly populated country, you will have drilling rig close to you.
Would be nice to see some serious money going towards renewables such as wave and tidal power, the recent Dyson award of I believe £2k for further research won't get very far.
Well the citizens of the US are loving the discounts they get from fracking I think any Government that could gain tax revenue and offer us cheap fuel and other cheaper products at no cost to themselves, reduce the unemployment figures and shout about what they have done for us would go for the popularity it could bring.
Most of the rigs involved (after initial drilling can fit into a couple of small log cabins enhancing the look of an area not destroying it.
I did agree with you on the Dyson matter pointing out that an investment of £80 million for a football player might be more fruitful for the guy who paid it. if spent on supplying renewable energy and funding the research for that.
Quote by Trevaunance
So to Frack or not to Frack ?
1300 cubic metres of gas in the UK, 10% of which would supply all the UKs gas needs for 40 years, gas prices would drop, jobs would be created, perhaps more gas powered cars or machinery introduced to reap the cheaper benefits for this fuel.
The price would never drop, as we would have to pay for the fracking drill to be set up in the first place and then we would pay for it's continued running costs.
Quote by MidsCouple24VAT from the end user would still be the same at 5%. Corporate taxes are beyond me, but i don't think there would be enough of a boot to be described as 'massive' considering that other energy methods such as coal and north ea gas would be drawndown and therefore contributing less to the corporation.
A massive boost to the UK taxman in revenue
You must know more than the researchers on ITV then and more than the US Government because they say they get a massive amount of revenue from it, for licences and in tax from the companies, I believe we already get a lot of money from North Sea Oil and North Sea gas for example I don't see why fracked gas should be any cheaper
Quote by MidsCouple24Prove it.
Cheaper electricity
In the USA and Estonia they are enjoying cheaper electricity as a direct result of the cheap gas, don't ask me why I am just quoting the programme on ITV the other night that interviewed the people in the US.
Quote by MidsCouple24Based on what?
Cheaper manufacturing
Because if you can run your factory machinery and heating cheaper then you can lower the price of your products, many products require high heat to produce for example
Extra revenue for the farmers who own the land the rigs are placed on.Very true that there would be extra revenue for the land owners. However most farmers rent the land, so surely the land owner would benefit more?
Quote by MidsCouple24Certainly does.
Sounds great.
Quote by MidsCouple24When you say drilling sites do you mean actual sites, or individual drills? And why would they all be in the countryside? surely some gas would be available in inner city brownfield sites? or is it just yet more scaremongering?
But the downside, 100,000 drilling sites would be needed to get the 10% we need, spread all over the UK countryside.
I don't know why they have to be in the countryside but in Estonia they are and in the US they are, perhaps it is because they can rent the land from the farmers and because drilling in towns and cities may not get approval. The guy on TV who said we would need 100,000 locations was talking about the downside, but the locations they showed where the drilling had TAKEN place and were now pumping gas, were as I said so small you could fit them in sheds.
Quote by MidsCouple24Which areas? What is the probability? and how would the water contamination occur?
Possible water contamination in some areas.
The gas is being brought up from an area deep below ground where it does not currently affect our water, apparently there has been some contamination of water as the gas has been brought up, they have sorted this problem by using triple insulated pipes.
Quote by MidsCouple24Worse than quarries, open pits and factories?
Blotches/scars on the landscape
Not everyone lives by a quarry or open pit, I think those objecting on the grounds of blotches/scars on the landscape are in part scaremongering or believing they would be in an area where drilling would take place
Quote by MidsCouple24Agreed.
The downside for the most part could be avoided.
Quote by MidsCouple24So wouldn't this prevent
Triple casing on pipes prevents water contamination
Quote by MidsCouple24Agreed, providing 200 foot tall log cabins aren't considered unsightly.
With so much money to be made/saved why cant we house those ugly pumps in pretty little log cabins so the landscape still looks rural ?
After the initial drilling has taken place it is just a pump that pumps the gas up and into the pipeline system, therefore the pipes can be underground and the area returned to its former condition and the pump needed is very small and can be housed in a pretty log cabin style shed
Quote by MidsCouple24No, it doesn't.
Estonia gets ALL its gas from fracking
Tell that to ITV then they said they do
Quote by MidsCouple24Agreed.
The USA is getting more and more, in the US the mistakes have been made and we can learn from that, personally I think that legislated correctly we could benefit greatly from this.
I don't know if I support fracking or not, I had never even heard of it till I watched the programme on ITV the other night but would like to know more and thought this would be a good place to hear unbiased opinions
Sex God
it seems a lot like the view point depends on,
what you read and where you read it from !!
or you could belive this
what you read and where you read it from !!
or you could belive this
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
You must know more than the researchers on ITV then and more than the US Government because they say they get a massive amount of revenue from it, for licences and in tax from the companies, I believe we already get a lot of money from North Sea Oil and North Sea gas for example I don't see why fracked gas should be any cheaper
As I said before, I don't understand corporate taxation. The UK's Office for Budget Responsibility predicts oil revenue will drop from this year to by 2017-18. So anything that will plug the gap is of course a boost, but I still don't think describing it as a massive boost is accurate. If revenue from oil and coal is falling, but shale gas revenue increases, how much would the net revenue be? Would the Government still be receiving the same level of revenue?
Quote by MidsCouple24.
In the USA and Estonia they are enjoying cheaper electricity as a direct result of the cheap gas, don't ask me why I am just quoting the programme on ITV the other night that interviewed the people in the US
That may be so. But I guess I'm cynical, I don't believe that prices would drop significantly or even at all. Conversely I do believe that profits would go up.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Because if you can run your factory machinery and heating cheaper then you can lower the price of your products, many products require high heat to produce for example
As above.
Quote by MidsCouple24
I don't know why they have to be in the countryside but in Estonia they are and in the US they are, perhaps it is because they can rent the land from the farmers and because drilling in towns and cities may not get approval. The guy on TV who said we would need 100,000 locations was talking about the downside, but the locations they showed where the drilling had TAKEN place and were now pumping gas, were as I said so small you could fit them in sheds.
I would guess the reason why they are in the countryside in America is because of the vast area they have at their disposal. In Estonia's case I would suggest that they drill in the countryside because it doesn't affect the low population, 75 people per square mile, compared with England's 1054!
Quote by MidsCouple24No, it doesn't.
Estonia gets ALL its gas from fracking
Quote by MidsCouple24
Tell that to ITV then they said they do
Read You will see that Estonia is indeed doing very well from shale oil, but they are not fracking. And there is not a single little log cabin in site!
Quote by MidsCouple24
The USA is getting more and more, in the US the mistakes have been made and we can learn from that, personally I think that legislated correctly we could benefit greatly from this.
Not everything is
Sex God
Quote by GnV
If we all went back to walking to local shops buying local produce, we might just not need all the extra energy they keep telling us we need.
:laughabove::laughabove:
when was the last time you was in the uk
Quote by Lizaleanrob
If we all went back to walking to local shops buying local produce, we might just not need all the extra energy they keep telling us we need.
:laughabove::laughabove:
when was the last time you was in the uk
Earlier this year in the beautiful City of Hull.
Local shops that you can easily walk to. Granted, there is a huge superstore in the centre open 24/7 burning electric like its going out of fashion but if we didn't demand it, commercial interests would soon close it down.
If we didn't demand all our purchases wrapped in polythene or gave the shops back all the packaging at the counter, perhaps they might rethink the need for it.
Convenience shopping is convenient so long as you can afford it. When, as a nation, you can no longer afford it, it's time to start some radical rethinking.
Sex God
Fracking.
A controversial method of extracting a fuel source from underneath our green and pleasant land (in places).
All those area's which have had quarries, open-cast, coal mines, salt/brine extraction, onshore wind farms, etc. are now looking at the anti's and thinking, where were you when we had these imposed on us over the last century ?
Will it lead to cheaper fuel? oh come on get real.
Will it lead to a price fix driven by taxation ? you mght think so but I couldn't possibly commentbeing the old politicians comment.
Will it lead to a bonus and cut-cost culture by those 'owning' it ? well past history suggests so.
So what's in it for us/communities, Georgey Porgey's promise of £100,000. Pah, chicken feed when compared with the benefits 'extracted' by the Shetlands from the oil industry back in the 70s, but the Exchequer will benefit, possibly eventually. Granted that's no where near guaranteed.
Just look at the Panorama/Private Eye investigation into the activities of George Osborne MP & his junior David Gauke MP at the Treasury and the coverup and collusion with the large Accountancy firms around tax management (read avoidance and evasion in plain language) once 'transfer pricing' and it's similar ruses are utilised rather like the Googles, Starbucks, etc. of this world so that as much money is manipulated via non-UK partner companies, holdings, etc. so as to ensure as little tax is paid.
So what's in it for us ? or the communities that we live in ?
A controversial method of extracting a fuel source from underneath our green and pleasant land (in places).
All those area's which have had quarries, open-cast, coal mines, salt/brine extraction, onshore wind farms, etc. are now looking at the anti's and thinking, where were you when we had these imposed on us over the last century ?
Will it lead to cheaper fuel? oh come on get real.
Will it lead to a price fix driven by taxation ? you mght think so but I couldn't possibly commentbeing the old politicians comment.
Will it lead to a bonus and cut-cost culture by those 'owning' it ? well past history suggests so.
So what's in it for us/communities, Georgey Porgey's promise of £100,000. Pah, chicken feed when compared with the benefits 'extracted' by the Shetlands from the oil industry back in the 70s, but the Exchequer will benefit, possibly eventually. Granted that's no where near guaranteed.
Just look at the Panorama/Private Eye investigation into the activities of George Osborne MP & his junior David Gauke MP at the Treasury and the coverup and collusion with the large Accountancy firms around tax management (read avoidance and evasion in plain language) once 'transfer pricing' and it's similar ruses are utilised rather like the Googles, Starbucks, etc. of this world so that as much money is manipulated via non-UK partner companies, holdings, etc. so as to ensure as little tax is paid.
So what's in it for us ? or the communities that we live in ?
Sexpert
Quote by Gerty35
effing time outs ! just did a nice reply to this, hit post to discover I'de timed out on the site ! I'll try again tomorrow.
No what you mean about the fracking time outs! they are a pain!
Quote by MidsCouple24
suffered from "time outs" in the past, I took to writing my bit on a notepad first then copying and pasting it into my forum bit, but have Windows 8 now (hate it, hate it) and I am damned if I can find the notepad in it. (amongst lots of other bits like calculators n stuff :sad:
Just moved onto a Windows 8 laptop and must admit it very nearly learnt to fly after about 5 minutes of set up
. . but I'm getting there. Will admit I haven't looked for the calculator though, surely its on there somewhere. The bit that really pisses me off is the loss of the file briefcase function, apparently Microsoft think its out of date & sod the fact that people still use it. The whole Windows 8 thing seems to be geared towards the I-Phone or tablet format and all about apps, now me, my phone cost 50p from the Vodaphone shop and it makes calls and tells me the time, ooooh and it has an alarm clock on it, but as for internet, pics, apps no it does none of that.
trying to use the laptop without a mouse is a nightmare and the page your on constantly reduces to 10% or goes crazy at 400% every time I try to scroll the mouse across the page, to reach my favourite old cards games I now have to download an X Box app, to do just about anything I have to download an app and I hate downloading stuff with all the cookies n stuff you get with it.
trying to use the laptop without a mouse is a nightmare and the page your on constantly reduces to 10% or goes crazy at 400% every time I try to scroll the mouse across the page, to reach my favourite old cards games I now have to download an X Box app, to do just about anything I have to download an app and I hate downloading stuff with all the cookies n stuff you get with it.
Sex God
Windows 8 was designed for touch screen desktops and laptops. If you don't have one but you are operating the system, then I'm afraid you are the wrong side of cash street.
Sex God
Quote by Trevaunance
Windows 8 was designed for touch screen desktops and laptops. If you don't have one but you are operating the system, then I'm afraid you are the wrong side of cash street.
7 works fine with touch screen computers we use them at work on our data acquisition and recalibration machinery
Sex God
simple
boot into Win 8 as usual, then if not touch screen select Desktop mode and use basically just like Win 7
works just fine and very few issues switching between win 7 and win 8 computers
boot into Win 8 as usual, then if not touch screen select Desktop mode and use basically just like Win 7
works just fine and very few issues switching between win 7 and win 8 computers
Quote by GnV
Windows 8 was designed for touch screen desktops and laptops. If you don't have one but you are operating the system, then I'm afraid you are the wrong side of cash street.
Then why do MS insist on supplying the OS on all new desktops and laptops
See now that is really annoying, because I bought the new laptop from PC World complete with windows 8 installed, they also asked for a further £30 because it was what they called "set up ready to run" I refused to pay this and they waived that payment which is good because within one day of getting it home I had to reboot the thing to factory settings after it all went tits up.
I am not pleased though that PC World are selling an item which I now believe is unfit for purpose, ie a laptop with a inappropriate or inadequate operating system installed because the laptop is NOT touch screen.
I did say I would prefer a laptop that operated on Windows 7 but was told that all new laptops now came with Windows 8.
You can change it to Windows 7 which is free for business users but costs a fair amount for private users.
Sex God
In my opinion which is worth diddly squat....fffffrack away and while you're at it a couple of huge new nuke power stations wouldn't go amiss and a large green wheelie bin for putting the scrap from the, what should be dismantled, windfarms.
