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Govt Inquiry into cycling

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Anyone see the programme on BBC 1 last night? War on Britains Streets. Dreadful and shameful lasting impressions of knob head cyclists and aggressive and poor drivers. Not sure what the progeramme was supposed to portray but it was neither educational nor made any meaningful contribution to the problem.
Gaz the helmet cam biker - not a good representation of cyclists in general but boy am i glad i don't cycle in London.
Quote by Too Hot
Anyone see the programme on BBC 1 last night? War on Britains Streets. Dreadful and shameful lasting impressions of knob head cyclists and aggressive and poor drivers. Not sure what the progeramme was supposed to portray but it was neither educational nor made any meaningful contribution to the problem.
Gaz the helmet cam biker - not a good representation of cyclists in general but boy am i glad i don't cycle in London.

I felt shamed to be a biker and a car driver! I think the idea of tests every year for everyone should be compulsory.
I also think an RFL for cyclists and insurance would help to alleviate car drivers perceptions even if they are just token ones. i.e. £20 a year. At least it is some contribution.
I saw it, reminded me of the bad old days, and one or two horrific incidents I witnessed.
Anything that serves to highlight the truth about road use and the carnage we currently accept is a good thing.
I am all in favour of change to improve safety.
Quote by Ben_Minx
I saw it, reminded me of the bad old days, and one or two horrific incidents I witnessed.
Anything that serves to highlight the truth about road use and the carnage we currently accept is a good thing.
I am all in favour of change to improve safety.

Got any ideas ?
Quote by Stevie_and_Kitty
Anyone see the programme on BBC 1 last night? War on Britains Streets. Dreadful and shameful lasting impressions of knob head cyclists and aggressive and poor drivers. Not sure what the progeramme was supposed to portray but it was neither educational nor made any meaningful contribution to the problem.
Gaz the helmet cam biker - not a good representation of cyclists in general but boy am i glad i don't cycle in London.

I felt shamed to be a biker and a car driver! I think the idea of tests every year for everyone should be compulsory.
I also think an RFL for cyclists and insurance would help to alleviate car drivers perceptions even if they are just token ones. i.e. £20 a year. At least it is some contribution.
The road fund/road tax is a real nonsense because it does not exist. Vehicles pay a Vehicle Excise Duty which is based on emmissions and bicycles would be in group like many cars are because of the low (zereo) emmissions. You could not have cars NOT paying VED and bicycles paying it. The Govt will not introduce any measures to make cycling cost anymore until they get many millions of more people out of their cars and cycling as they see cycling as a solution to traffic congestion and general health issues.
Personally I am a Member of British Cycling and have £10,000,000 third party cover as all Members have and it costs £24 a year to be a Member.
Quote by Too Hot
Personally I am a Member of British Cycling and have £10,000,000 third party cover as all Members have and it costs £24 a year to be a Member.

Well I believe that ANY person who uses the road should have at least third party insurance. Only last night I was coming home from work to see a cyclist with a high viz jacket on and no lights at , not bothering to stop at a roundabout and nearly wiped out by a large van. How can it be right to have no lights on a cycle and use the roads and then wonder why cycle accidents are so common at night.
The same laws should apply to every road used no matter what you are riding. In other words adequate insurance, lights both back and front, and a vehicle with a current MOT and in a cycles case some form of bike MOT and some cycles are death traps with no lights and no brakes. It should not matter whether you have a v8 4x4 or a cycle, the laws for using the roads should be the same for all.
Quote by Too Hot
The road fund/road tax is a real nonsense because it does not exist. Vehicles pay a Vehicle Excise Duty which is based on emmissions and bicycles would be in group like many cars are because of the low (zereo) emmissions. You could not have cars NOT paying VED and bicycles paying it. The Govt will not introduce any measures to make cycling cost anymore until they get many millions of more people out of their cars and cycling as they see cycling as a solution to traffic congestion and general health issues.
Personally I am a Member of British Cycling and have £10,000,000 third party cover as all Members have and it costs £24 a year to be a Member.

Wasn't asking bikes to pay VED, a similar scenario to the RFL would be fine, sort of like your telly licence.
Motorbikes pay VED and are MOT'd...Cycles could do something very similar! As a keen cyclist, our bikes are regularly serviced. Can't be said the same for others!
Quote by Too Hot
Not sure what the progeramme was supposed to portray but it was neither educational nor made any meaningful contribution to the problem.

Oh, I don't know TH. I saw it over the Internet and thought it was quite balanced (for the BBC).
Quote by Stevie_and_Kitty
As a keen cyclist, our bikes are regularly serviced. Can't be said the same for others!

Many kids BMX bikes don't have brakes - how can parents allow that?
Quote by Too Hot
As a keen cyclist, our bikes are regularly serviced. Can't be said the same for others!

Many kids BMX bikes don't have brakes - how can parents allow that?
They do and then their child ends up another statistic. The manufacturers have to be held accountable also for what they sell and how they market their goods.
I think, within our life times, most cities will go the Cambridge route and beyond.
Quote by Ben_Minx
I think, within our life times, most cities will go the Cambridge route and beyond.

You may be correct Ben. I am saving £100 a month at the moment on fuel by selectively using my bicycle for some journeys. A once a month fill up instead of twice a month is a huge saving and if my wife did the same we may even not need two cars anymore which will be at least an extra holiday (or two) a year in savings.
The roads have to be made safer though and I understand that a 20 mph urban speed limit is now being tested in some towns and cities and I just can't see that not being universally introduced at some stage.
Wigan is trying to get support to test it out here in the NW -
It will need more than that though.
Quote by Ben_Minx
I think, within our life times, most cities will go the Cambridge route and beyond.

What, like this....

Given the biblical amounts of rainfall of late, it might not be such a stupid idea after all...
I have watched about half of that cycle program from last night and what a complete fucking weasel that cyclist was who had a row with that black cab driver. The way he was smirking as he was watching that clip, to me the cab driver did nothing wrong at all in that sequence of events. What I saw was a smug big headed twat of a 24 year old, taking his life into his own hands by the sheer stupidity of his actions. Was he acting like a deliberate plonker just because he was videoing the action on his helmet cam?
If ever there was an argument for not allowing cyclists on the road without adequate insurance that was it. So far I have seen cyclists riding on the pavement, along with over taking on the left and the right with no regard for their own safety, and then they wonder why other roads users think the majority are knob heads.
I shall report back again when I have watched the second half, but so far the cyclists have done themselves no favours at all. That knob at the beginning seemed to think it was fantastic that he was doing 30mph, on tyres as skinny as a pencil and brakes about as good at stopping as a three wheeler is when going around corners. I think the cab driver should have knocked that smirk off his face. Maybe part two will show the other side of things eh?
Well have now watched part 2. The first thing I would say is great sympathy with Cynthia who lost her Daughter. She is certainly an inspirational woman. Also I do not condone the violence that I saw, with cyclists being assaulted.
What I have seen from this show is that the roads are too dangerous for cyclists. If a cyclist is involved in an accident they will always come off worse. There was of course very poor car drivers, and van drivers, but some of those cyclists were idiots pure and simple. From the cyclists undertaking that cement lorry who was stationary with inches to spare, from the cyclists who would jump red lights at every opportunity and also mount the pavements. To the worst cases of being an idiot that I have ever seen where right at the end those two cyclists racing each other. How they are still alive is purely by luck, and I feel sorry for the car/van/lorry driver who will kill one of them, and have to live with that guilt.
Funnily enough the oldest member of that program who was the cab driver, showed his years by being and saying the most sensible things out of all the people.
Another person stated that ' cyclists would not behave that way if they had number plates' was correct. The cyclist must realise that their behavior is likely to seriously injure them or as in many cases every year, kill them. The roads are too dangerous for cyclists and that program proved that point beyond any doubt.
And that clip of the cyclist riding down that pathway at the end, and knocking that lady over was typical of their attitudes on the roads. Proof to me that there are idiots of all sorts using the roads, but cyclists are just oblivious to things around them, and the wearing of headphones should be made illegal.
Quote by star
Well have now watched part 2. The first thing I would say is great sympathy with Cynthia who lost her Daughter. She is certainly an inspirational woman.

:thumbup:
And all credit as well to the cement transport company for the work they have done in making their vehicles safer following her representations.
I was particularly impressed with their featured driver. He was a credit to his craft.
Oh dear.

Now whilst I certainly in no way agree with this in the violence thing, this guy seriously is one of the biggest fecking twa-s I have seen. You really had to see the documentary to appreciate the level of knobness of this bloke.
Seriously some people do get what they ask for in certain instances in life.
Quote by starlightcouple
Oh dear.

Now whilst I certainly in no way agree with this in the violence thing, this guy seriously is one of the biggest fecking twa-s I have seen. You really had to see the documentary to appreciate the level of knobness of this bloke.
Seriously some people do get what they ask for in certain instances in life.

He came across as being a dick - as did the other self styled camera vigilante but I wonder just how much he now regrets being involved in the programme now. FWIW his You Tube Channel has hundreds of video 's showing dumb antics on the roads from drivers AND cyclists. I think the BBC chose that footage and that reaction as it just made for the best TV - he is probably paying for his moment of fame as selective editing has just created him to be a dickhead - which apparantly - he isn't?.....
Anyway, I have watched the programme twice and it does show that even the most experienced of drivers show a lack of space awareness when it comes to overtaking. The Highway Code says that you should give a cyclist as much room as a car when overtaking and so if a cyclist can touch an overtaking vehicle - it is way too close. Many motor vehicle drivers have no idea at all how vulnerable is is to be on two wheels.
I am not sure though about the rise and rise of the camera armed, "uber cyclist." I learned at 11 years old that the only way to cycle safely is to cycle defensively. Targeting "bad" drivers and bad driving is not going to win anyone's support. Showing up bad car drivers by posting thousands of video's of poor road behaviour won't soften attitudes - whereas educating other road users about the needs of cyclists possibly will.
Having said all of this - I am on a number of different forums (non swinging lol) and there is a thread running on most of them about this programme so at least it is getting people talking.
Quote by starlightcouple
Oh dear.

Now whilst I certainly in no way agree with this in the violence thing, this guy seriously is one of the biggest fecking twa-s I have seen. You really had to see the documentary to appreciate the level of knobness of this bloke.
Seriously some people do get what they ask for in certain instances in life.

Quote by Too Hot
He came across as being a dick - as did the other self styled camera vigilante but I wonder just how much he now regrets being involved in the programme now. FWIW his You Tube Channel has hundreds of video 's showing dumb antics on the roads from drivers AND cyclists. I think the BBC chose that footage and that reaction as it just made for the best TV - he is probably paying for his moment of fame as selective editing has just created him to be a dickhead - which apparantly - he isn't?.....

There is a part of me Too Hot that thinks he is regretting his participation, an another part of me that thinks he is reveling in the notoriety of it. The BBC always have agendas for showing things like this of course,but I agree he is a complet dick.
Quote by Too Hot
Anyway, I have watched the programme twice and it does show that even the most experienced of drivers show a lack of space awareness when it comes to overtaking. The Highway Code says that you should give a cyclist as much room as a car when overtaking and so if a cyclist can touch an overtaking vehicle - it is way too close. Many motor vehicle drivers have no idea at all how vulnerable is is to be on two wheels.

How can a car possibly give that amount of room on a single lane road? If a car driver gave that amount of room, every car would be constantly on the wrong side of the road. There were cycle lanes constantly there in that show, and the vast majority were not staying in them. If you seriously think that amount of space has to be afforded to a cyclist, how can a bus or a lorry driver possibly give that space? Seriously Too Hot that guy was even deliberately cycling in the middle of the road, and it is only a matter of time before someone seriously hurts him. He does not deserve that of course, but if there were prizes for being a prick, he would get first prize every time.
Quote by Too Hot
I am not sure though about the rise and rise of the camera armed, "uber cyclist." I learned at 11 years old that the only way to cycle safely is to cycle defensively. Targeting "bad" drivers and bad driving is not going to win anyone's support. Showing up bad car drivers by posting thousands of video's of poor road behaviour won't soften attitudes - whereas educating other road users about the needs of cyclists possibly will.

Cyclists do not or will not it seems recognise the dangers the roads brings to them in particular. Of course education can work but how many cyclists would even think about being of good attitude where other vehicles are concerned. And why do they constantly jump red lights and use the pavement? Things such as that will never endear themselves to other road users and we saw it perfectly well last night.
Quote by Too Hot
Having said all of this - I am on a number of different forums (non swinging lol) and there is a thread running on most of them about this programme so at least it is getting people talking.

Yes talking about it is good, but I think the program has been taken up with talk of those idiot cyclists more than anything else, and if there were people watching with no views at all they would have been angered by the attitude of not only that dickhead cyclist,but by the way other cyclists endanger their own lives constantly to gain an extra few feet.
Quote by Too Hot
Oh dear.

Now whilst I certainly in no way agree with this in the violence thing, this guy seriously is one of the biggest fecking twa-s I have seen. You really had to see the documentary to appreciate the level of knobness of this bloke.
Seriously some people do get what they ask for in certain instances in life.

He came across as being a dick - as did the other self styled camera vigilante but I wonder just how much he now regrets being involved in the programme now. FWIW his You Tube Channel has hundreds of video 's showing dumb antics on the roads from drivers AND cyclists. I think the BBC chose that footage and that reaction as it just made for the best TV - he is probably paying for his moment of fame as selective editing has just created him to be a dickhead - which apparantly - he isn't?.....
Anyway, I have watched the programme twice and it does show that even the most experienced of drivers show a lack of space awareness when it comes to overtaking. The Highway Code says that you should give a cyclist as much room as a car when overtaking and so if a cyclist can touch an overtaking vehicle - it is way too close. Many motor vehicle drivers have no idea at all how vulnerable is is to be on two wheels.
I am not sure though about the rise and rise of the camera armed, "uber cyclist." I learned at 11 years old that the only way to cycle safely is to cycle defensively. Targeting "bad" drivers and bad driving is not going to win anyone's support. Showing up bad car drivers by posting thousands of video's of poor road behaviour won't soften attitudes - whereas educating other road users about the needs of cyclists possibly will.
Having said all of this - I am on a number of different forums (non swinging lol) and there is a thread running on most of them about this programme so at least it is getting people talking.
Aye, and if it prevents one more Mother from burying her daughter than that will be enough.
Quote by starlightcouple
........
How can a car possibly give that amount of room on a single lane road? If a car driver gave that amount of room, every car would be constantly on the wrong side of the road. There were cycle lanes constantly there in that show, and the vast majority were not staying in them. If you seriously think that amount of space has to be afforded to a cyclist, how can a bus or a lorry driver possibly give that space? Seriously Too Hot that guy was even deliberately cycling in the middle of the road, and it is only a matter of time before someone seriously hurts him.
...........
And herein Star is EXACTLY the problem. You are very quick to preach rules and the Highway Code as long as you think it applies to other people and not to you. I give you section 163 of the Highway Code:
163
Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should
not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake
use your mirrors, signal when it is safe to do so, take a quick sideways glance if necessary into the blind spot area and then start to move out
not assume that you can simply follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking; there may only be enough room for one vehicle
move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in
take extra care at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance
give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road
only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left
give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211 to 213 and 214 to 215).
Particularly note the last INSTRUCTION - give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car
Now whether it is dumb, or stupid or holds everyone up - it is the law and the reason that some cyclists will cycle down the middle of the road at a pinch point is because saving their own life is more important than an extra 30 seconds of the car drivers journey. Most cyclists will graciously give way but be under no illusion that it is a right.
This is a perfect example of why people need re-testing and regular appraisals of exactly what the Highway Code deoes say.
BTW in terms of jumping lights and hopping on the pavement............. If there are no pedestrians on the pavement then I do that too - so what? At red lights I often hop off my bike and cross on foot to get a head start - so what? On my bicycle I can do those things but on my Motorbike or in the car I can't. But it doesn't get me all embittered and full of angst when other people do.
As Brits we seem to love the feeling of outrage when others "break the rules" but are completely oblivious to our own rule breaking. Irony?..................
Can't profess to be an expert on the UK's Highway Code (the French code de la route more relevant these days) but do I recall a rule for cyclists about always riding in single file except when road conditions allow?
Cyclists sometimes are just as much to blame as car drivers sometimes cycling 2 or 3 abreast in inappropriate circumstances.
Quote by Too Hot
And herein Star is EXACTLY the problem. You are very quick to preach rules and the Highway Code as long as you think it applies to other people and not to you. I give you section 163 of the Highway Code:

Where exactly have I preached about the Highway code dunno, but seeing as you mention it and are now quick to enlighten us all as to what it says in the highway code then I give you this....
Quote by Too Hot
BTW in terms of jumping lights and hopping on the pavement............. If there are no pedestrians on the pavement then I do that too - so what? At red lights I often hop off my bike and cross on foot to get a head start - so what? On my bicycle I can do those things but on my Motorbike or in the car I can't. But it doesn't get me all embittered and full of angst when other people do.

You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.
Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & R(S)A 1984, sect 129

It is the law and yet you dismiss it at will without a damn. I am sure you check left and right where pedestrians are and then dismount if any are there. Yeah of course you do. You admit to not giving a damn about blatantly breaking the law when it suits you, and you now expect people to take seriously what you say? Oh dear.
It is clear from your comment above what your agenda was all along Too Hot, you do what you like and when you like and ....' so what? ' Well I do hope that one day your arrogance does not land you in hospital or worse, for with that kind of attitude is it any wonder cyclists have the bad press they do and you have perfectly indicated to us all what your real thoughts and attitudes are. :doh:
Quote by Too Hot
Now whether it is dumb, or stupid

Well you choose your words wisely.
Quote by Too Hot
As Brits we seem to love the feeling of outrage when others "break the rules" but are completely oblivious to our own rule breaking. Irony?..................

As I have stated already....some people in life get exactly what they deserve. :sleeping:
Yes I do break the law...........
I regularly exceed 70 mph on the motorway (in my car)
I sometimes exceed the speed limits on trunk roads (on my car and on the motorbike)
I have been guilty of touching my mobile phone whilst at the wheel (driving)
I occasionally ride my bicycle on the pavement
Issue here is that I accept it all around and I am not being hypocritical. The problem in the UK is that too many people want everyone else to adhere to the "rules" but find all sorts of excuses when applied to themselves.
In all of the above situations and along with everyone else I am sure there is a personal judgement call made as to whether your actions are acceptable in the circumstances - or wanton and crazy.
Driving at 100 mph on a motorway full of traffic weaving in and out is going to get you killed sooner or later. Driving at 85 mph on a deserted stretch of the M6 north of Preston is still breaking the law but in a modern car is probably something that most people would do.
Tearing down a pavement full of pedestrians on a bicycle is foolish as well as being illegal. Hopping on an empty pavement on a bicycle to get ahead of a line of traffic is illegal but is safer than filtering through traffic so people do it.
I guess that my regular use of a car, motorcycle and a bicycle gives a slightly different perspective to someone who is solely blinkered to metal box driving. I don't have any issues at all on whatever mode of transport I am using to other people taking advantage and making progress. I do have major issues with dangerous road users be it inconsiderate drivers, speeding motorcycles on trunk roads or cyclists barging along crowded footpaths. Acceptance, tolerance and understanding is what is needed all round in my opinion.
Quote by Too Hot
Yes I do break the law...........
Acceptance, tolerance and understanding is what is needed all round in my opinion.

Is that when you break the law or stay within it? I am sure people will show tolerance and understanding when you have not shown that tolerance and understanding when you are breaking the law.
Two wrongs never make a right, unless you are doing them. :notes: Do you actually realise the hypocrisy sometimes in what you post? I am not going to waste anymore time explaining it to you. banghead
These numbers are interesting.
Since 1960, about 5000 people have been killed in the USA by terrorists.
This is roughly the same number killed in the USA each WEEK by vehicles.
I think we are far too accepting of the road death toll.
The solutions are not obvious or simple and the blame does not lie with any particular group of road users.
When I read comments by people whose opinion I value to the effect that "we all speed" it makes me very sad. Society needs a cultural shift, people are more valuable than liberty sometimes.
Quote by Too Hot

" For this to happen, leadership is needed right from the top, the MPs and Peers conclude. They call on the Government to appoint a National Cycling Championto advocate for cycling across all departments and externally ".
We could appoint that bloke, ermmm, what's his name..........Oh yeah Bradley what's his face to do it. innocent
Quote by starlightcouple

" For this to happen, leadership is needed right from the top, the MPs and Peers conclude. They call on the Government to appoint a National Cycling Championto advocate for cycling across all departments and externally ".
We could appoint that bloke, ermmm, what's his name..........Oh yeah Bradley what's his face to do it. innocent
Was there ever any other reason to have given him a knighthood :whistling:
Quote by GnV
Was there ever any other reason to have given him a knighthood innocent

Ermmmm.......Did he not do something at the Tour De France and the Olympics though?
The " Wiggins " look is out there everywhere. I do not know what it is like in France, but over here on a Sunday there are Bradley lookalikes everywhere on the road. I must say they are a bloody nuisance as well, riding sometimes three abreast on the roads as I thought they were supposed to cycle in single file?