Hunting ban to remain in place during 2011

28 Sep 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
To be fair to Starlight Blue, I very nearly put up something very similar. Then the phone lines went down at work and I suddenly had better things to do. But yes, you've quoted that particular Blairism before. Never had you down as someone that would credit him with much in the way of good judgement on most things? Who's being the more selective?
See what you've done? Starlight's thumbing Staggers up, I'm agreeing with Starlight. You've sent the forum mad so you have. ;)
N x x x ;)

I would not piss on Blair if he was on fire as you well know, it is the fact that having been forced to examine the facts he has seen the error of his ways, and had the balls to admit it also, I do have respect for that.

28 Sep 2011

Blue, by way of an aside but keeping on the topic of game birds, according to some researchers the amount of stock taken by foxes is actually lower than the amount taken by raptors. Raptor populations are probably an order of magnitude or more lower than fox populations, yet are responsible for a higher number of kills, according to some researchers. What's your thoughts on the necessity of managing raptor populations? Should those rearing game birds just accept that they will inevitably lose a small part of their stock to them, and factor in the costs to them accordingly, or do they too need to be managed. I suspect responsible breeders factor in costs.
N x x x ;)

28 Sep 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
I would not piss on Blair if he was on fire as you well know, it is the fact that having been forced to examine the facts he has seen the error of his ways, and had the balls to admit it also, I do have respect for that.

true bluefish but you are being very selective yourself then by using a comment that " he " said that suits your own purpose.
i never thought i would give mr staggers the thumbs up but what he says makes perfect sense. unfortunately for you bluefish you have are too involved on a personnel level to be constructive in your thoughts. you are only seeing things in black and white and that is what happens when peeple you know are fox hunting.
i see it not as a way of eradicating the fox population, but as a way of having a jolly good ride out on the old horse, and throw in a few dogs and then away you go to catch and kill a perfectly indefensable animal on the grounds that you are doing the fox population a bit of good.
bluefish peeple outside of the country side alliance just think it is nasty and plain cruel to kill and hunt foxes in this way. i reely cannot see why you are failing to understand this .
maybe we should set a few humans out with the foxes and let the hounds have a chase. blair could be the first. :twisted:

28 Sep 2011

Foxes are indigenous, pheasants (and chickens) aren't. 'nuff said.

28 Sep 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
1:Blue you may well view the use of dogs to kill foxes as a partnership... I don't, if it is a partnership then so is the relationship of a bomber and his bomb.
In my experience many Hunters who use dogs view their dogs as tools...I would refer you to the many specialist breed rescues, who deal with poorly socialised and almost unhomeable ex hunting dogs of all breeds, who either wont or can't hunt...not to mention those who don't make it into rescue but are either discarded or destroyed .... it does look a pretty one sided partnership

I most definitely see the relationship between man and dog as a partnership, I have no respect for anyone who does otherwise. Any hunter who miss-treats his dogs should face the full force of the law.
My pleasure and spare time is spent with dogs, cocker spaniels, I work the dog to flush game for other's to shoot and retreive the shot game. This type of thing;

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
2:"A source of mindless conflict in the confrontational politics between the organisations defending and attacking hunting methods, is the use by foxes of artificial earths, many of which date back to the enclosure of common land. These structures provide similar facilities in assisting breeding success, and territorial dispersal, as the important and widespread use of bird boxes, from small gardens to large forests. In non-fox hunting areas they may also be used as traps to control fox numbers, or sometimes to monitor their health"
Why if foxes are vermin would this be the case ?? surely eradication by either hunting or natural wastage would be preferable
I made this point not btw because of anything I read in the press but because of a dim memory of a documentary (or part thereof) that followed a fox hunter as he went about the business of ensuring that his paymasters had foxes to hunt.

No one would wish to see foxes eradicated, its more about management than destruction. Even on the most basic level, as a huntsman, would you wish to put yourself out of work?

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
3: hunts are professional hunters!

I think we both know that this isn't strictly true .... the hunts may well employ professional hunters but tell me how many are professional hunters if for example 50 ride out ?? 2? 3?
It would seem not all farmers are so keen on the generous support of the local hunt ....
The huntsman and whipper-in's are professional, the rest are irrelevant. Of coarse not every farmer will invite hunts onto there land, of coarse they may well be arable farmers, in which case hunts would be a hinderance rather than a help.
They would need the pigeon and rabbit shooters instead.

28 Sep 2011

Quote by starlightcouple

I would not piss on Blair if he was on fire as you well know, it is the fact that having been forced to examine the facts he has seen the error of his ways, and had the balls to admit it also, I do have respect for that.

true bluefish but you are being very selective yourself then by using a comment that " he " said that suits your own purpose.
i never thought i would give mr staggers the thumbs up but what he says makes perfect sense. unfortunately for you bluefish you have are too involved on a personnel level to be constructive in your thoughts. you are only seeing things in black and white and that is what happens when peeple you know are fox hunting.
i see it not as a way of eradicating the fox population, but as a way of having a jolly good ride out on the old horse, and throw in a few dogs and then away you go to catch and kill a perfectly indefensable animal on the grounds that you are doing the fox population a bit of good.
bluefish peeple outside of the country side alliance just think it is nasty and plain cruel to kill and hunt foxes in this way. i reely cannot see why you are failing to understand this.
maybe we should set a few humans out with the foxes and let the hounds have a chase. blair could be the first. :twisted:
Would be hardly worth me debating a subject if I did not choose what suited my cause....
I do know I am in a minority, but that does not make my thinking wrong. equally that does not make the majority correct

28 Sep 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009

1:Blue you may well view the use of dogs to kill foxes as a partnership... I don't, if it is a partnership then so is the relationship of a bomber and his bomb.
In my experience many Hunters who use dogs view their dogs as tools...I would refer you to the many specialist breed rescues, who deal with poorly socialised and almost unhomeable ex hunting dogs of all breeds, who either wont or can't hunt...not to mention those who don't make it into rescue but are either discarded or destroyed .... it does look a pretty one sided partnership

I most definitely see the relationship between man and dog as a partnership, I have no respect for anyone who does otherwise. Any hunter who miss-treats his dogs should face the full force of the law.
My pleasure and spare time is spent with dogs, cocker spaniels, I work the dog to flush game for other's to shoot and retreive the shot game. This type of thing;
And BB spends much of her spare time raising funds for the likes of am not quite as ignorant of the nature and practice of hunting with dogs as you may think .... next time you need a dog ask nessr they have more than enough working springers and cockers

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
2:"A source of mindless conflict in the confrontational politics between the organisations defending and attacking hunting methods, is the use by foxes of artificial earths, many of which date back to the enclosure of common land. These structures provide similar facilities in assisting breeding success, and territorial dispersal, as the important and widespread use of bird boxes, from small gardens to large forests. In non-fox hunting areas they may also be used as traps to control fox numbers, or sometimes to monitor their health"
Why if foxes are vermin would this be the case ?? surely eradication by either hunting or natural wastage would be preferable
I made this point not btw because of anything I read in the press but because of a dim memory of a documentary (or part thereof) that followed a fox hunter as he went about the business of ensuring that his paymasters had foxes to hunt.

No one would wish to see foxes eradicated, its more about management than destruction. Even on the most basic level, as a huntsman, would you wish to put yourself out of work?
I'm not suggesting the huntsman should be put out of work ..I'm suggesting that he update his methods

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
3: hunts are professional hunters!

I think we both know that this isn't strictly true .... the hunts may well employ professional hunters but tell me how many are professional hunters if for example 50 ride out ?? 2? 3?
It would seem not all farmers are so keen on the generous support of the local hunt ....
The huntsman and whipper-in's are professional, the rest are irrelevant. Of coarse not every farmer will invite hunts onto there land, of coarse they may well be arable farmers, in which case hunts would be a hinderance rather than a help.
That kind of was my point blue .... I really don't object to controlling the fox population ...I think the way it is done is inefficient and cruel (one link I came across mentioned only 3% of foxes caught and killed) ... if a fox is to be killed, send a couple of men out with dogs ,flush it out and shoot it,don't send out a mob of weak chinned idiots endangering themselves their horses the dogs and anything else in the immediate vicinity... it seems like common sense to me..it seems that those who hunt for food agree,you don't see them in large groups with large packs of dogs and no guns... I do wonder why if the traditional fox hunt is so good they don't use the same techniques for any other animals
They would need the pigeon and rabbit shooters instead.

28 Sep 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
And BB spends much of her spare time raising funds for the likes of am not quite as ignorant of the nature and practice of hunting with dogs as you may think .... next time you need a dog ask nessr they have more than enough working springers and cockers

Valid work indeed

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I'm not suggesting the huntsman should be put out of work ..I'm suggesting that he update his methods

This is where we must disagree, the method is better than any modern method

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
That kind of was my point blue .... I really don't object to controlling the fox population ...I think the way it is done is inefficient and cruel (one link I came across mentioned only 3% of foxes caught and killed) ... if a fox is to be killed, send a couple of men out with dogs ,flush it out and shoot it,don't send out a mob of weak chinned idiots endangering themselves their horses the dogs and anything else in the immediate vicinity... it seems like common sense to me..it seems that those who hunt for food agree,you don't see them in large groups with large packs of dogs and no guns... I do wonder why if the traditional fox hunt is so good they don't use the same techniques for any other animals

It is only inefficient if you count numbers, we only need to catch the old, injured, and sick. Most healthy foxes are not a problem, they hunt their natural prey. The numbers are low as hounds rarely catch the healthy. As said before, it mimics nature perfectly and does the job required perfectly.
Why are the hunt followers a problem? They pay for the privilege of riding behind the hunt, across open country otherwise unachievable for most people. They pay the hunt for that privilege, which pays the wage of the huntsman etc.
The same techniques are used on other animals, two packs of dear-hounds hunt the red stag,s of exmoore, beagles hunt the hair, and up until recently mink-hounds hunted mink, these were the descendants of otter-hounds.

28 Sep 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
Blue, by way of an aside but keeping on the topic of game birds, according to some researchers the amount of stock taken by foxes is actually lower than the amount taken by raptors. Raptor populations are probably an order of magnitude or more lower than fox populations, yet are responsible for a higher number of kills, according to some researchers. What's your thoughts on the necessity of managing raptor populations? Should those rearing game birds just accept that they will inevitably lose a small part of their stock to them, and factor in the costs to them accordingly, or do they too need to be managed. I suspect responsible breeders factor in costs.
N x x x ;)

Any one who puts birds into woodland only expects a 50% return. Birds of prey are endangered, and protected, so must not be interfeard with in any way. Many estates work hand in hand with organisation tasked with the protection of endangered raptors

28 Sep 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
just for the record though bluefish. i have for the past seven yeers helped the local fox in my neighbours garden to have at least thirteen cubs. i have fed the mother as often as possible and when the cubs have got larger we have fed them as well until they leave there mother. we will continue to do this as do a couple of our neighbours.
we feel that " humans " have no right at all to cull an animal purely because they deem that it upsets with there way of life.
local councils do not cull them anymore and neither should the rest of human kind, and certainly not by a vicious bunch of rabid dogs.
maybe one day the dog will have its day and turn on its masters who train them to kill.

Is this an unfortunate neighbour of your? lol

A man in Kentish Town, in north London, has been criticised by the RSPCA after employing a pest controller to cull foxes that had dug holes in his garden.
Spokeswoman, Sue Royal, said that killing foxes was inhumane, and only encourages animals from other areas to move in and take their place.
However, she also said that relocation of the animals was ineffective: "Moving foxes from one area to another is not appropriate in terms of disease management or considered humane."

28 Sep 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
Blue, by way of an aside but keeping on the topic of game birds, according to some researchers the amount of stock taken by foxes is actually lower than the amount taken by raptors. Raptor populations are probably an order of magnitude or more lower than fox populations, yet are responsible for a higher number of kills, according to some researchers. What's your thoughts on the necessity of managing raptor populations? Should those rearing game birds just accept that they will inevitably lose a small part of their stock to them, and factor in the costs to them accordingly, or do they too need to be managed. I suspect responsible breeders factor in costs.
N x x x ;)

Any one who puts birds into woodland only expects a 50% return. Birds of prey are endangered, and protected, so must not be interfeard with in any way. Many estates work hand in hand with organisation tasked with the protection of endangered raptors

Thank you Blue, that's exactly what I thought you'd say. Losses are factored in. So . . . how is it that estates raisng game birds manage to factor in those losses, and cope with predation from raptors, and actively encourage raptor population, knowing that raptors will take a certain amount of their stock, but cannot apparently cope with predation from foxes unless they shoot and / or hunt them with hounds then? They're just as easily factored in too, no?
What am I missing? confused

M x x x ;)

28 Sep 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
we only need to catch the old, injured, and sick. Most healthy foxes are not a problem, they hunt their natural prey.

this comment is a contradiction surely?
i thought the huntsmen were sent out by farmers who get the foxes killed to protect there own livestock?
scratches head emotion.

28 Sep 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
Blue, by way of an aside but keeping on the topic of game birds, according to some researchers the amount of stock taken by foxes is actually lower than the amount taken by raptors. Raptor populations are probably an order of magnitude or more lower than fox populations, yet are responsible for a higher number of kills, according to some researchers. What's your thoughts on the necessity of managing raptor populations? Should those rearing game birds just accept that they will inevitably lose a small part of their stock to them, and factor in the costs to them accordingly, or do they too need to be managed. I suspect responsible breeders factor in costs.
N x x x ;)

Any one who puts birds into woodland only expects a 50% return. Birds of prey are endangered, and protected, so must not be interfeard with in any way. Many estates work hand in hand with organisation tasked with the protection of endangered raptors

Thank you Blue, that's exactly what I thought you'd say. So . . . how is it that estates raisng game birds manage to cope with predation from raptors, and actively encourage raptor population, knowing that raptors will take a certain amount of their stock, but cannot apparently cope with predation from foxes unless they shoot and / or hunt them with hounds then?
What am I missing? confused

M x x x ;)
you are missing nothing neil.
this thread is showing that the excuses these peeple give for hunting down and killing foxes, has nothing to do with there reesons, but everything to do with this being a blood sport done purely for fun and NOTHING else, whatever the other excuses there are that have been given.
the killing of foxes is an outdated barbaric means that still ensures there weekly hunt.
as i have said alredy i think it is only a matter of time that this barbaric hunt by hounds will be allowed to happen as public opinion is turning against it.
i cringe every time i hear yet another feeble excuse for this barbaric and cruel act of so called culling.

28 Sep 2011

My pleasure and spare time is spent with dogs, cocker spaniels, I work the dog to flush game for other's to shoot and retreive the shot game.

Ah. Not exactly 100% objective then Blue, given that you're defending your right to gain pleasure from the hunt?
Can I suggest you get a Border Collie or two? They don't waddle in the same funny lop-sided way as yer Spaniel, but they're much better at rounding up sheep, and the sheep are quite frequently still alive at the end of it. Quite protective of lambs too atcherly. If it's yer man and beast in perfect harmony you're after, get a Collie, learn to whistle.
You can of course gain pleasure from yer animals' natural behaviours in a more domesticated kinda way, just by putting things in place that kind of replicates their natural environment, or enables the aforesaid natural behaviours, in a way that's almost like working 'em, can't you? Apparently? dunno

*wanders off and makes sure his ferrets are fed and watered before he goes to bed*
N x x x ;)

29 Sep 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
Blue, by way of an aside but keeping on the topic of game birds, according to some researchers the amount of stock taken by foxes is actually lower than the amount taken by raptors. Raptor populations are probably an order of magnitude or more lower than fox populations, yet are responsible for a higher number of kills, according to some researchers. What's your thoughts on the necessity of managing raptor populations? Should those rearing game birds just accept that they will inevitably lose a small part of their stock to them, and factor in the costs to them accordingly, or do they too need to be managed. I suspect responsible breeders factor in costs.
N x x x ;)

Any one who puts birds into woodland only expects a 50% return. Birds of prey are endangered, and protected, so must not be interfeard with in any way. Many estates work hand in hand with organisation tasked with the protection of endangered raptors

Thank you Blue, that's exactly what I thought you'd say. Losses are factored in. So . . . how is it that estates raisng game birds manage to factor in those losses, and cope with predation from raptors, and actively encourage raptor population, knowing that raptors will take a certain amount of their stock, but cannot apparently cope with predation from foxes unless they shoot and / or hunt them with hounds then? They're just as easily factored in too, no?
What am I missing? confused

M x x x ;)
Lots I suspect,
A game farmer could not have the hunt through there woods anyway as they would disturb the birds, I have already said, he will expect 50% losses. Hope this helps

29 Sep 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
My pleasure and spare time is spent with dogs, cocker spaniels, I work the dog to flush game for other's to shoot and retreive the shot game.

Ah. Not exactly 100% objective then Blue, given that you're defending your right to gain pleasure from the hunt?
Can I suggest you get a Border Collie or two? They don't waddle in the same funny lop-sided way as yer Spaniel, but they're much better at rounding up sheep, and the sheep are quite frequently still alive at the end of it. Quite protective of lambs too atcherly. If it's yer man and beast in perfect harmony you're after, get a Collie, learn to whistle.
You can of course gain pleasure from yer animals' natural behaviours in a more domesticated kinda way, just by putting things in place that kind of replicates their natural environment, or enables the aforesaid natural behaviours, in a way that's almost like working 'em, can't you? Apparently? dunno

*wanders off and makes sure his ferrets are fed and watered before he goes to bed*
N x x x ;)
Sorry, being a country bumpkin, you have lost me

29 Sep 2011

Quote by starlightcouple

we only need to catch the old, injured, and sick. Most healthy foxes are not a problem, they hunt their natural prey.

this comment is a contradiction surely?
i thought the huntsmen were sent out by farmers who get the foxes killed to protect there own livestock?
scratches head emotion.
I think I may have mentioned this before........Most healthy foxes are not a problem

29 Sep 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
you are missing nothing neil.
this thread is showing that the excuses these peeple give for hunting down and killing foxes, has nothing to do with there reesons, but everything to do with this being a blood sport done purely for fun and NOTHING else, whatever the other excuses there are that have been given.
the killing of foxes is an outdated barbaric means that still ensures there weekly hunt.
as i have said alredy i think it is only a matter of time that this barbaric hunt by hounds will be allowed to happen as public opinion is turning against it.
i cringe every time i hear yet another feeble excuse for this barbaric and cruel act of so called culling.

The easy answer to this one, is don't keep reading them dunno

As a side note, since the ban, public support has increased and so has hunt membership and continue to do so :thumbup:
We even have a new generation of hunt staff coming through;

29 Sep 2011

your an argumentative bugger blue lol

29 Sep 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
your an argumentative bugger blue

An old adage of mine
If you cant beat the, boar them to death :grin: :thumbup:

29 Sep 2011

bored
:giveup::giveup:
lol

29 Sep 2011

If domestic animals are easy meat for a sick or old fox, why would a healthy fox bother to hunt either. Surely any fox with sense goes for the easy meat every time. dunno

30 Sep 2011

Quote by foxylady2209
If domestic animals are easy meat for a sick or old fox, why would a healthy fox bother to hunt either. Surely any fox with sense goes for the easy meat every time.

I will be honest Foxy, I don't know the answer to that one, I could hazard a reasonable guess though, wild foxes do not like human contact and stay away from anywhere where people are, unlike the urban fox of coarse. I would guess the healthy fox would rather hunt his natural prey well away from humans, while an animal who is sick hungry and miss-placed from his hunting grounds is forced into the easy kill.

6 Oct 2011

The Government are supporting pro-hunting training lol

This put a smile on my face
However the anti-hunting lobby headed by the League Against Cruel Sports has slammed the Government for supporting what they see as pro-hunting training when hunting foxes or deer with more than two hounds was made illegal in 2005.

6 Oct 2011

foxes r cute...
go out n hunt the riff raff

7 Oct 2011

Quote by twos_company
foxes r cute...
go out n hunt the riff raff

OK

on my way :thumbup:
This huntsman has already started lol

Tally Ho

21 Oct 2011

Splendid news I would say lol

David Cameron has insisted the Government remains committed to a Commons vote on reversing the controversial ban on hunting.
It has been claimed a pledge in the coalition Government agreement to let MPs oppose Labour's totemic Hunting Act was "dead and buried".
But asked by the Western Morning News whether the Government still abided by the promise, the Prime Minister said: "There's no change in the position, and the commitment is the commitment, and we don't resile from that.
I'm sure at some stage the vote will be held. I don't have a timing for that." Hunt supporters across the Westcountry had campaigned for pro-hunt MPs at last May's general election.
The issue has cooled within Westminster, chiefly because of the need to revive the economy. But pressure is still strong among the grass roots in the countryside for a repeal of the ban.
Mr Cameron, a keen country sportsman, has said he will vote against the ban.

26 Oct 2011

i know i said that i fed the occasional fox in my garden, but this lady goes one step further lol

26 Oct 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
i know i said that i fed the occasional fox in my garden, but this lady goes one step further

A good link Star, rather her than me! A little crazy perhaps? Maybe the begining of the domesticated fox...lol :lol:

26 Oct 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
i know i said that i fed the occasional fox in my garden, but this lady goes one step further

A good link Star, rather her than me! A little crazy perhaps? Maybe the begining of the domesticated fox...lol :lol:
You called? :giggle: