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Israel/Palestine conflict

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Quote by Rak

I am not a Palestinian but suspect, if I was, that I would want to live there as it was my country
Dave_Notts

Without going into too much details, I can say that during the partition of the Indian subcontinent (1947), millions were killed and forced to leave their homes with nothing. Musharraf (ex Pakistani president) was born in India, while Singh (India PM) was actually born in Pakistan.
Also, alot of the Ugandan-Indians in the UK (Indians who had migrated to Uganda afew generations ago) were forced to leave by Idi.
We'd all like to think we'd stay in our own country, but its not always possible or desirable.
Its not only Christian Palestinians who have left Gaza of the other refugee camps, many Muslims have also tried to integrate into which ever country accepts them.
So if there is hardly any Christians there and you know the reasons on why they left, why use them as an example earlier? You said it was Christian and Islamic
Palestinians, but there does not seem to be many Christians at all.
Dave_Notts
Quote by Rak

The writer says that origionally Jews played ball politically, but after the wholesale slaughter and attempts to wipe Jews from the face of history in WW2 they took a different tack....

You mean terrorism? Correct me if I'm wrong, it was the zionists wthat were the first people in the 20th century to commit acts of international terrorism. Much before any religious group, IRA, ETA etc.
Also, lets put things into perspective. It was only in lands occupied by the Germans where Jews were persecuted by the Nazis, not in the free western world.
And Jews werent the only people that suffered under Hitler. I don't think homosexuals resorted to terrorism and wanted their own country as Hitler tortured and killed many of them also.
I also dont want to offend anyone, but I dont think peace will ever be accomplished by killing innocent people. When people are backed into a corner (or surrounded by a wall) then they have nothing to lose. I think that if the Palestinians were given more assistance, then they would stop supporting people like Hamas who appear to be their saviours.
First off, i was merely paraphrasing the thoughts of the writer... not my own.
OK... so you are Anti-Zionist and and find it hard to draw distinctions between religion and politics.... i get where you are coming from now..
The rest of your logic has no logic,and your justifications for Hamas and other groups bent on the destruction of the State of Israel/Jews seems to be that those tactics have been used by Jews/Zionists themselves , so now it is ok.
not worth a detailed answer or debate i'm afraid....
Quote by Rak
Also, lets put things into perspective. It was only in lands occupied by the Germans where Jews were persecuted by the Nazis, not in the free western world.

Weren't they persecuted in all European countries through the ages? Britain had a go at one point as well.
Dave_Notts
Quote by Dave__Notts
So if there is hardly any Christians there and you know the reasons on why they left, why use them as an example earlier? You said it was Christian and Islamic
Palestinians, but there does not seem to be many Christians at all.
Dave_Notts

The reason for mentioning this fact was to highlight the point that Palestinians are not only Muslims, but Christians also. I'm sure you're aware that St. George lived in Palestine and is their Patron Saint.
Regardless of religion, Palestinian would want to keep their land as their own. Just like In suspect Catholic/Protestant/anything else people would want the UK to be British, and not handed over to a foreign people.
Quote by DeeCee
OK... so you are Anti-Zionist and and find it hard to draw distinctions between religion and politics.... i get where you are coming from now..
The rest of your logic has no logic,and your justifications for Hamas and other groups bent on the destruction of the State of Israel/Jews seems to be that those tactics have been used by Jews/Zionists themselves , so now it is ok.
not worth a detailed answer or debate i'm afraid....

I think you're abit confused. Zionism was essentially an expression of Jewish nationalism. So there's very little, if any distinction between them in the first place to speak of. You are correct in that I am against any group that uses violence to get what they want, whether its the USA, Hamas, IRA, or Zionism.
And the bit you found hard to understand was that there's no justification for resorting to violence against one group of people, because you faced persecution by another group elsewhere.
during the period of agreed ceasefire between the state of israel and the elected representatives of the palestinian people in gaza, the israelis maintained a sea, air and land blockade, preventing food and medical supplies from reaching gaza, save whatever could be brought in through tunnels dug from egypt. see u.n. resolutions on same and international red cross complaints list on israel. in november the israelis carried out an airstike, killing several leaders of hamas and a number of men, women and children. israel broke the ceasefire on its 60 years illegaly occupied lands that it settles on illegally, terrorises the indigenous people with tanks, helicopter gunships,f15 fighter bombers and apartide (20ft concrete walls) control of food and water supply. it is a sick, bastard state, wholly dependant on british and american subsidy, totally expansionist and its leaders boast their holocost against the peoples they oppress. they (the zionists)will bring about armageddon to achieve global domination !
Quote by gulsonroad30664
during the period of agreed ceasefire between the state of israel and the elected representatives of the palestinian people in gaza, the israelis maintained a sea, air and land blockade, preventing food and medical supplies from reaching gaza, save whatever could be brought in through tunnels dug from egypt. see u.n. resolutions on same and international red cross complaints list on israel. in november the israelis carried out an airstike, killing several leaders of hamas and a number of men, women and children. israel broke the ceasefire on its 60 years illegaly occupied lands that it settles on illegally, terrorises the indigenous people with tanks, helicopter gunships,f15 fighter bombers and apartide (20ft concrete walls) control of food and water supply. it is a sick, bastard state, wholly dependant on british and american subsidy, totally expansionist and its leaders boast their holocost against the peoples they oppress. they (the zionists)will bring about armageddon to achieve global domination !

So basically, you don't rate them much gulsonroad :giggle:
Quote by GnV
during the period of agreed ceasefire between the state of israel and the elected representatives of the palestinian people in gaza, the israelis maintained a sea, air and land blockade, preventing food and medical supplies from reaching gaza, save whatever could be brought in through tunnels dug from egypt. see u.n. resolutions on same and international red cross complaints list on israel. in november the israelis carried out an airstike, killing several leaders of hamas and a number of men, women and children. israel broke the ceasefire on its 60 years illegaly occupied lands that it settles on illegally, terrorises the indigenous people with tanks, helicopter gunships,f15 fighter bombers and apartide (20ft concrete walls) control of food and water supply. it is a sick, bastard state, wholly dependant on british and american subsidy, totally expansionist and its leaders boast their holocost against the peoples they oppress. they (the zionists)will bring about armageddon to achieve global domination !

So basically, you don't rate them much gulsonroad :giggle:
How did you come to that conclusion? lol
Quote by kentswingers777
during the period of agreed ceasefire between the state of israel and the elected representatives of the palestinian people in gaza, the israelis maintained a sea, air and land blockade, preventing food and medical supplies from reaching gaza, save whatever could be brought in through tunnels dug from egypt. see u.n. resolutions on same and international red cross complaints list on israel. in november the israelis carried out an airstike, killing several leaders of hamas and a number of men, women and children. israel broke the ceasefire on its 60 years illegaly occupied lands that it settles on illegally, terrorises the indigenous people with tanks, helicopter gunships,f15 fighter bombers and apartide (20ft concrete walls) control of food and water supply. it is a sick, bastard state, wholly dependant on british and american subsidy, totally expansionist and its leaders boast their holocost against the peoples they oppress. they (the zionists)will bring about armageddon to achieve global domination !

So basically, you don't rate them much gulsonroad :giggle:
How did you come to that conclusion? lol
Intuition dear boy, intuition wink
credit/dept is the transfere of human activity to bankers. the ponzi scheme game is up and the bankers know it. their only solution is to destroy the means of prodution including the producers and start again. the annialation of the palestinians is just the beginning. we are next down the line sometime in the future. the demands to service derivitives (collaterised dept obligations, securitised dept obligations, long term high yeild...etc)in interest are greater than the sum total of all human activity on the planet and cannot be met. if the russians had not met the american/israeli backed onslaught of south ossetia with overwhelming force (the threat of theater nuclear weapons)it would have been the fuse for global catastrophe. thank god the indians and pakistani's have'nt completely swallowed the "mumbai terrorist attack" otherwise that would have been it. watchout for a big planned event around or just after obama's inaugeration !
Quote by gulsonroad30664
credit/dept is the transfere of human activity to bankers. the ponzi scheme game is up and the bankers know it. their only solution is to destroy the means of prodution including the producers and start again. the annialation of the palestinians is just the beginning. we are next down the line sometime in the future. the demands to service derivitives (collaterised dept obligations, securitised dept obligations, long term high yeild...etc)in interest are greater than the sum total of all human activity on the planet and cannot be met. if the russians had not met the american/israeli backed onslaught of south ossetia with overwhelming force (the threat of theater nuclear weapons)it would have been the fuse for global catastrophe. thank god the indians and pakistani's have'nt completely swallowed the "mumbai terrorist attack" otherwise that would have been it. watchout for a big planned event around or just after obama's inaugeration !

And where exactly is the proof of this conspiracy theory?
bank's bankrupt ? are you blind and deaf, are you from another world ? bank's lending money they did'nt have ? have you not heard of fractional reserve lending ? at interest ? big ponzi scheme that's got out of control ? lending money to people who had'nt a prayer of paying it back ? bank's wont lend to other bank's never mind you or i ? where have you been on a desert island ? israelis surrounding gaza not letting anything or anybody in or out ? bombing u.n. school, forcing people to stay in a house then bombarding it ? bombing the u.n. relief compound with internationally outlawed white phospherous ? collapse of bear stearns, indymac, lehman bros, northern rock,rbs, hbos, landki bankski and iceland economy...... the list goes on !
dee cee, where on earth did you get the idea that i was forwarding a "conspiracy theory" ? ? ?
dee cee ? ah, you must mean con spiracy theory, yes ? theory ? you and i must have gone to different schools together !
Quote by gulsonroad30664
bank's bankrupt ? are you blind and deaf, are you from another world ? bank's lending money they did'nt have ? have you not heard of fractional reserve lending ? at interest ? big ponzi scheme that's got out of control ? lending money to people who had'nt a prayer of paying it back ? bank's wont lend to other bank's never mind you or i ? where have you been on a desert island ? israelis surrounding gaza not letting anything or anybody in or out ? bombing u.n. school, forcing people to stay in a house then bombarding it ? bombing the u.n. relief compound with internationally outlawed white phospherous ? collapse of bear stearns, indymac, lehman bros, northern rock,rbs, hbos, landki bankski and iceland economy...... the list goes on !

Lost me dunno
Dave_Notts
Quote by Dave__Notts
bank's bankrupt ? are you blind and deaf, are you from another world ? bank's lending money they did'nt have ? have you not heard of fractional reserve lending ? at interest ? big ponzi scheme that's got out of control ? lending money to people who had'nt a prayer of paying it back ? bank's wont lend to other bank's never mind you or i ? where have you been on a desert island ? israelis surrounding gaza not letting anything or anybody in or out ? bombing u.n. school, forcing people to stay in a house then bombarding it ? bombing the u.n. relief compound with internationally outlawed white phospherous ? collapse of bear stearns, indymac, lehman bros, northern rock,rbs, hbos, landki bankski and iceland economy...... the list goes on !

Lost me dunno
Dave_Notts
Me too.....
What is your point ?
Quote by DeeCee
bank's bankrupt ? are you blind and deaf, are you from another world ? bank's lending money they did'nt have ? have you not heard of fractional reserve lending ? at interest ? big ponzi scheme that's got out of control ? lending money to people who had'nt a prayer of paying it back ? bank's wont lend to other bank's never mind you or i ? where have you been on a desert island ? israelis surrounding gaza not letting anything or anybody in or out ? bombing u.n. school, forcing people to stay in a house then bombarding it ? bombing the u.n. relief compound with internationally outlawed white phospherous ? collapse of bear stearns, indymac, lehman bros, northern rock,rbs, hbos, landki bankski and iceland economy...... the list goes on !

Lost me dunno
Dave_Notts
Me too.....
What is your point ?
Haven't got a point. I am just lost.............and I have no satnav to get me back on track either :cry:
dave_Notts
Quote by Dave__Notts
bank's bankrupt ? are you blind and deaf, are you from another world ? bank's lending money they did'nt have ? have you not heard of fractional reserve lending ? at interest ? big ponzi scheme that's got out of control ? lending money to people who had'nt a prayer of paying it back ? bank's wont lend to other bank's never mind you or i ? where have you been on a desert island ? israelis surrounding gaza not letting anything or anybody in or out ? bombing u.n. school, forcing people to stay in a house then bombarding it ? bombing the u.n. relief compound with internationally outlawed white phospherous ? collapse of bear stearns, indymac, lehman bros, northern rock,rbs, hbos, landki bankski and iceland economy...... the list goes on !

Lost me dunno
Dave_Notts
Me too.....
What is your point ?
Haven't got a point. I am just lost.............and I have no satnav to get me back on track either :cry:
dave_Notts
was talkin to Gulsonroad....lol
point is, holly oaks, east enders, corrie,home and away, sumthin farm, friends etc are all PROGRAMES, psp, nintendo's x box'es are PROGRAMES. break out and think for yourself. stop being programmed with crap. all the evidence of a world financial total collapse and the subsequent consequences for us all are staring us in the face. wake up sheeple
Gulson, baaaaaaaa humbug! I'm sure the examples you cite are all inextricably linked in some amorphous tangled web of intrigue, but unfortunately my programming throws an unhandled exception whenever I try to think about it, which isn't pretty and not at all pleasant I can tell you. ;)
Anyways, just as an aside, today I have mostly been reading this website:

I think the Gaza situation and the collapse of world banking are completely unrelated issues, caused primarily because people are often too stupid and too greedy and too hungry for power and control to see their own best interests, and there's nothing more sinister than that involved, but I'm gonna knock a few up this evening, just in case . . .
Neil x x x ;)
neil, who or what finances israel ? please dont say the state of israel is self financing ? hope to knock a few up on ere meself if i dont bore everyone to death lol
Quote by gulsonroad30664
neil, who or what finances israel ? please dont say the state of israel is self financing ? hope to knock a few up on ere meself if i dont bore everyone to death lol

I found some data here ----->

or is this all disinformation put forward by the Illuminati so we all remain sheep?
baaaaaaa
Gulson you make some really interesting points but maybe they need to be more simplified to gain real interest?
In this country real political debate is just left to the politicans local and national. We the Jo/Joanne Bloggs dont take part in serious discussions about issues in this country and abroad enough.
The 'dumbing' down of history and world events and their implications short and long term will be our downfall if we continue to let others lead us to the path of destruction.
However I have no idea what I personally want to do about it. Funny in my 20's I wanted to make a difference but I have got lazy redface ah well better go and watch Corrie .........
gulsonroad30664, I cant really disagree with much you have said, but I think you've associated things together that may not be linked.
I think your points would be more clearer if you expanded them? and didnt ask so many short questions. Tell us what you think instead.
If anyone would like to put his/her money where her/his mouth is, this is a possible way to do so:
The Archbishop of Canterbury, the Chair of the Muslim Charities Foundation, Dr Hany El Banna and the Head of the Movement for Reform Judaism, Rabbi Dr Tony Bayfield, are calling on people of all faiths to give generously to the Faiths Working Together Appeal to help rebuild shattered lives in Gaza.
“I hope that all people of faith – and all of goodwill – will support this initiative by giving generously and by using all available websites and other resources to contribute and to spread the word.” – Dr Rowan Williams
Donations will be collected by Christian Aid and then used by Physicians for Human Rights-Israel, Christian Aid and Islamic Relief to fund their relief, reconstruction and post emergency work. To make a donation click on the link below.
Quote by GnV
ok then.. who's going to give The Caf� forumites a heads-up on what this is all about?
Didn't a certain Mr Bliar leave British politics to go sort out the Middle East?
or is that why there is a problem there now?
dunno

You don't have to worry about it anyway. Your in France! Whatever the outcome you can guarantee France won't have anything to do with it lol
israel is a bastard state imposed on the middle east and the world as part of the geopolitical interests of international capital. the area is palestine consisting of peoples of many religeons but mainly moslem, jewish and christian. the zionists with the help of the british (read balfour treaty) annexed palestine for themselves in 1947 as a one religeon state and called it israel. with financial and military support particularily from the u.s.a. and britain, they dominate the area economically and militarily and contrary to united nations resolutions on occupation, separatism, apartied,human rights and nuclear proliferation, with the support of the u.s.a. and britain on the security council, israel has never had sanctions applied to it. the palestine liberation organisation, prior to its total infiltration by imperialists agents and the murder of yasser arafat was and is a non secular organisation consisting of moslems, christians and jews opposed to the zionist state of israel. read about 2 young british lads killed by israeli agents in cyrus on a yaught in the 70's.. the story is a long one ......banksters at the top
Quote by gulsonroad30664
the murder of yasser arafat

are you sure he was murdered???
i think you have, if you dont mind me saying, been fed a diet of anti Jewish/Zionist/Semitic/Israeli propoganda.
I hope you , and others watch this link...you will see what a terrible bunch they are...you might have missed these facts
Quote by gulsonroad30664
israel is a bastard state imposed on the middle east and the world as part of the geopolitical interests of international capital.

Aren't all countries bastard states? We are all a hotpotch of nationalities that make up one state.
Dave_Notts
Quote by Dave__Notts
israel is a bastard state imposed on the middle east and the world as part of the geopolitical interests of international capital.

Aren't all countries bastard states? We are all a hotpotch of nationalities that make up one state.
Dave_Notts
was it meant to be a factual rant.... how could it possibly be??
baseless... anti-Semitic....radical....