Yes it exists as it does in all walks of life, Yes it needs to be stamped out there is no place in life for it especially not in sport.
But the decision of some to form a Black Players FA ? I see that as racist, I also see it as self defeating, the more non Black Players showing thier support for thier colleagues the more credibility there is to show how wrong racism is.
I have never understood racism, that I clearly admit, I don't understand why some people find the colour of a persons skin relevant and especially why more find the colour black offensive than say chinese or asians.
I don't care who has my back when I stand in the front line, black, white pink or blue if they have my back then I am happy that they are there and don't consider the colour, if my team score a goal I don't care if the player is black or white.
Why would it be different if a black man scored against us than a white man, a white man who may be portugese or argentinian.
I just think that forming any group made up from selected people causes more alienation.
I feel the same about Gay Pride, why are you proud to be gay ? I am not proud to be hetrosexual, I simply am, I did not choose to be hetrosexual, I hit puberty and I was, gay people do not choose to be gay, they simply are, I personally don't give a toss if your gay, I can still be your friend, I can still have a good night out with you, discuss the same subjects, watch the same movies, play the same sport.
You don't need to be proud to be gay but you should not be ashamed of it either, you should not need to hide it nor should you need to run around boasting about it, we are humans and we are what we are, no more, no less.
Having a "Gay Pride" march simply says that you think you need to shout about it, when the actual act of a march can alienate you from some people, some see it as pushing it in thier face when there is no need to do so. Once you would be killed for being gay, in some countries that is still the case, but overall the world has learned to accept it for what it is, a human trait, some are some aren't. I would not attend a "Hetrosexual Pride" March because I see it as pointless and "pushing it in the face of bisexual and gay people.
All I ask is that people be happy with themselves.
Hetrosexuals standing with thier gay friends, white footballers standing with thier black colleagues, that is what we want to see, not more splinter groups.
Join the most popular community of UK swingers now
Login
Jeds Soapbox entry for the day
last reply
28 replies
1.4k views
0 watchers
0 likes
Sex God
most of the people most of the time jed and let the rest get on with it 
Sex God
I feel the same about Gay Pride, why are you proud to be gay ? I am not proud to be hetrosexual
Why would you need to be Jed? Has anyone ever heaped shame on you for being straight? Ever had your essential humanity and dignity called into question or been looked upon with revulsion by polite society for it? Ever had your head kicked in for being a hetero? Ever been on the end of repressive laws as used to exist not even all that long ago in this country that dealt with your innate nature as though a perversion of all that's right and moral? I suspect not.
You've never once had to fight for the right to be straight, have you, so why should you feel proud of it? The same cannot be said of the LGBT community who still face daily prejudice in their daily lives and have fought red in tooth and claw for every right they currently enjoy in the face of those who would have denied it them. That's why they're proud mate, and rightly so.
I'll come back to the race thing later, else this will be overlong.
Sex God
At the risk of over simplifying it I do think the creation of a Black Players FA seems a bit divisive 
Quote by neilinleeds
I feel the same about Gay Pride, why are you proud to be gay ? I am not proud to be hetrosexual
Why would you need to be Jed? Has anyone ever heaped shame on you for being straight? Ever had your essential humanity and dignity called into question or been looked upon with revulsion by polite society for it? Ever had your head kicked in for being a hetero? Ever been on the end of repressive laws as used to exist not even all that long ago in this country that dealt with your innate nature as though a perversion of all that's right and moral? I suspect not.
You've never once had to fight for the right to be straight, have you, so why should you feel proud of it? The same cannot be said of the LGBT community who still face daily prejudice in their daily lives and have fought red in tooth and claw for every right they currently enjoy in the face of those who would have denied it them. That's why they're proud mate, and rightly so.
I'll come back to the race thing later, else this will be overlong.
Your right, to a certain extent, but we all face prejudices, I have been verbally abused for being asian, ridiculed for being asian, for being slim, for being old but probably not to the extent that gays can be subjected to.
Standing up and saying yes I am gay and I am proud of it is probably not the best solution to that problem, I never really felt the need to run around shouting I am English to everyone, that my parents are english and thier parents are scottish and that none of my family throughout our history has ever even visited asia, (I am simply dark skinned with possible South American roots too far back to know for sure but thought to be so by doctors).
Standing up for your rights as a gay person is a good thing, but there are ways of doing it, we should be educating people, pointing out how stupid they are being, how puberty decides it not personal choice in just the same way as puberty decides who is going to enjoy gas mask sex, it may start before then we cannot really be sure but we can be sure that nobody sits down and decides it for themselves, they are or they aren't into what they are into.
Idiots who see it as evil to be gay also see being proud of being gay as an even worse crime.
I haven't heard of any swingers on here trying to organise Swingers Pride marches yet if many of the people you meet in your daily lives knew you were into the lifestyle they would treat you as some treat the gay community.
Quote by MidsCouple24
** snipped **
Don't usually like to quote huge passages of text so I didn't.
Establishment of a Black Players FA is not racist at all, they don't seek to persecute and criminally discriminate to others not of their colour! They need a voice as it is plainly clear they are being picked upon because of their colour which is racist!
You and I, if we are of the inclination and talent, may seek to join the BPFA to show our solidarity and support to their cause. IF we were then barred entry on grounds of our colour then yes that would be racist.
With regards to Gay Pride...why do those of the LGBT persuasion need to shout about it??...I think you need to turn the question on its head and ask WHY do the heterosexual not feel pride in celebrating their sexuality!
Maybe its because they are too busy in the bi-married chatroom having a crafty hand shandy over *** and his 2 mates with "straight" in their profile.
BUT the reason LGBT need to shout, is to get their voices heard over the grunts of the neanderthals down at the pub still using derogatory terms against their fellow man because of his sexuality!!
Quote by Rogue_trader
** snipped **
Also had the snip
Fundamentaly I agree with the pro Gay Pride comments on here but at the same time think two things about it.
1. It is a shame that in 21st Century Britain they still need to fight thier case but as you say neanderthols by thier very nature will never learn but I think showing the normality of it would be better because the morons will just see Gay Pride as "in your face" is there really anything wrng with being realist and accepting that and calling them "Gay Awareness Parades" ?
2. Can I ask then, what people think would be said if we started a White Footballers Federation to represent white players refusing membership to black players, surely then that too could never be accused of being racist ? or would it ?
Sex God
I don't believe that membership of the proposed football association precludes membership by white players. If it did then there would be a clear case of discrimination under the Equality Act.
Quote by Paddy
No doubt you also find the groups "Womens Institute" and "Mothers Union" sexist?
I prefer to watch Rogue's cam in the mornings, far more entertaining that someone on a "Soapbox"
MidsCouple24GodlikeJoined:31 Oct 2006Posts:1152Location:Stoke on TrentProfilePM
so you are just assuming that white players will be allowed to join the Black Players breakaway union ?
A bit assumptive to put down what I say when the wording points towards the opposite of what you say isn't it
____________________________________________________________________________________
I may not support your views or opinions but I do support your right to have them and state them, neither do I insist that you ever agree with any views or opinions I have. (Jed normally uses forums but not chat, Sasha uses the chatrooms occasionally but not the forums)
Sex God
Does anyone actually have evidence that white people cant join the new association?
Speak up?
Ok, so in the absence of any evidence to the contrary does anyone feel comfortable with shouting about racism?
Speak up?
Ok, so in the absence of any evidence to the contrary does anyone feel comfortable with shouting about racism?
Sex God
Leave it out Trevanaunce, spoiling a good argument with your incessant demands for actual 'facts' and shit. You've been here long enough now to know how it works by now, surely? 
Makes me laugh. You used to see the same argument used against the National Black Police Association, even though their own homepage used to make it clear that there's no colour bar to membership for none-blacks, which makes it a bit of a nonsense.
There is no need for a white footballers association, or rather, it already exists. It's called the PFA. The vast majority of footballers are white. Their views and interests are represented at every level thanks to the simple fact they are in the majority, so naturally their views are foremost. They already have their collective voice. Black footballers are by contrast under represented, and the very fact of their blackness means that they will face challenges not faced in the same way by white players. Bananas and monkey chants for example. Their experience of the sport and its followers is in that sense different to that of your white players. White players do not suffer racist abuse of that kind ( generally speaking. ) nor do they need to shout to make themselves heard in quite the same way, because their interests are already represented at the top table ( generally speaking ) by the fact that it's their own class, who share their values, running the show. An association for black players seeking to redress that imbalance, giving them a collective voice themselves is not racist. It is sensible, reasonable, and acknowledges the realities of the situation. Simple.
Makes me laugh. You used to see the same argument used against the National Black Police Association, even though their own homepage used to make it clear that there's no colour bar to membership for none-blacks, which makes it a bit of a nonsense.
There is no need for a white footballers association, or rather, it already exists. It's called the PFA. The vast majority of footballers are white. Their views and interests are represented at every level thanks to the simple fact they are in the majority, so naturally their views are foremost. They already have their collective voice. Black footballers are by contrast under represented, and the very fact of their blackness means that they will face challenges not faced in the same way by white players. Bananas and monkey chants for example. Their experience of the sport and its followers is in that sense different to that of your white players. White players do not suffer racist abuse of that kind ( generally speaking. ) nor do they need to shout to make themselves heard in quite the same way, because their interests are already represented at the top table ( generally speaking ) by the fact that it's their own class, who share their values, running the show. An association for black players seeking to redress that imbalance, giving them a collective voice themselves is not racist. It is sensible, reasonable, and acknowledges the realities of the situation. Simple.
Sex God
Quote by neilinleeds
Leave it out Trevanaunce, spoiling a good argument with your incessant demands for actual 'facts' and shit. You've been here long enough now to know how it works by now, surely?
Sorry, I keep forgetting that I'm in an online playground
Quote by neilinleeds
An association for black players seeking to redress that imbalance, giving them a collective voice themselves is not racist. It is sensible, reasonable, and acknowledges the realities of the situation. Simple.
I agree.
Sex God
Course you do Trev. That's cos it's difficult to argue against once you actually stop to think about it for . . . oh . . . . how long did it take you? Seconds?
You know what I find most funny. It's the protestations you'll always see come up in some quarters from those complaining that black people seeking to organise themselves must by definition be racist in some way. Instant knee-jerk reaction. No. It. Is. Not, how many more times? ;) They don't even have the good sense to realise most often that by their knee-jerk they've just revealed why these organisations have the need to exist in the first place. Claim to be all egalitarian and I'm not racist but all you damn well please but until we get rid of whatever it is that's causing that twitch none of us can be said to be truly colourblind, and definitely not you mate! You're colourblind where your own representation is concerned, but not to theirs? Hmmmmmmm. *strokes chin* That's interesting? I don't expect to find it so much here. Always a surprise when I do.
Have you been moving the letters round in yer name again Trev BTW? You sure? Just I was sure I finally had it down a bit back but wrong again. Trev just seems all wrong for you that's all. Not very Celtic sounding, tha's all, Trev, is it? Trev-aun-ance. Got it. Sure I had before, sorry! only had 8 years to practice though. ;)
You know what I find most funny. It's the protestations you'll always see come up in some quarters from those complaining that black people seeking to organise themselves must by definition be racist in some way. Instant knee-jerk reaction. No. It. Is. Not, how many more times? ;) They don't even have the good sense to realise most often that by their knee-jerk they've just revealed why these organisations have the need to exist in the first place. Claim to be all egalitarian and I'm not racist but all you damn well please but until we get rid of whatever it is that's causing that twitch none of us can be said to be truly colourblind, and definitely not you mate!
You're colourblind where your own representation is concerned, but not to theirs? Hmmmmmmm. *strokes chin* That's interesting? I don't expect to find it so much here. Always a surprise when I do.Have you been moving the letters round in yer name again Trev BTW? You sure? Just I was sure I finally had it down a bit back but wrong again. Trev just seems all wrong for you that's all. Not very Celtic sounding, tha's all, Trev, is it? Trev-aun-ance. Got it. Sure I had before, sorry! only had 8 years to practice though. ;)
Sex God
We do laugh at some of the misspellings our name creates. But I'm suprised you think it should sound Celtic, because I'm not Celtic at all.
Sex God
Quote by neilinleeds
Course you do Trev. That's cos it's difficult to argue against once you actually stop to think about it for . . . oh . . . . how long did it take you? Seconds?
In truth it was probably miliseconds from the moment I first heard about it on bbc news, scroll forward a day or so and people here are calling it rascist. I have never had a problem with such an association and never will.
It is no different to any other fraternity as far as I'm concerned; trades unions, political parties, sexuality based groups etc are all in existence because its a human trait to congregate with people you can associate with.
Quote by neilinleeds
none of us can be said to be truly colourblind, and definitely not you mate!
I'm not colourblind as you call it to anyone's representation. I'll hold my hands up and say I've laughed at jokes that could be percieved as rascist, sexist or ist. But many years ago I realised that it doesnt matter about the colour, religion, gender or whatever of the person next to you when your backs against the wall and your fighting for your life, so why should it matter when your in a McDonalds, for example?
Sex God
has all this all not come about because the Ferdinand brothers didn't get the result THEY wanted in the john terry affair
Quote by Lizaleanrob
has all this all not come about because the Ferdinand brothers didn't get the result THEY wanted in the john terry affair
To be fair Rob, it's the Ferdinand brothers PLUS a lot of other black players. The fact that Terry received a much more lenient suspension than Suarez is an utter disgrace IMHO
Sex God
Quote by Max777
To be fair Rob, it's the Ferdinand brothers PLUS a lot of other black players. The fact that Terry received a much more lenient suspension than Suarez is an utter disgrace IMHO
Agreed.....
I'd love to be able to afford his Lawyer....
I could get away with anything.....
Sex God
Quote by Max777
has all this all not come about because the Ferdinand brothers didn't get the result THEY wanted in the john terry affair
To be fair Rob, it's the Ferdinand brothers PLUS a lot of other black players. The fact that Terry received a much more lenient suspension than Suarez is an utter disgrace IMHO
the problem is max the whole thing became a farce after terry was found not guilty in court from then on the the FA had their wings clipped on the affair and any punishment that was to be dished out
I don't agree Rob. The FA still found Terry guilty and therefore he should have received at least the same punishment as Suarez. Without wishing to reopen the Suarez debate, he called a fellow player 'negro' and received an 8 week ban. Terry allegedly called Ferdinand an F***ing Black C**t' and received a 4 week ban.
Go figure
Go figure
Sex God
Quote by Max777
I don't agree Rob. The FA still found Terry guilty and therefore he should have received at least the same punishment as Suarez. Without wishing to reopen the Suarez debate, he called a fellow player 'negro' and received an 8 week ban. Terry allegedly called Ferdinand an F***ing Black C**t' and received a 4 week ban.
Go figure
i agree with what you are saying max but terry had/has the FA by the bollox its now a farce. they can't punish him with the life ban he deserves because his lawyers argument would be he was actually found not guilty in a court of law
i would also imagine that a writ was prepared and ready to be handed to the FA should their punishment be anything else other than token
Don't know the legalities of this but am I not right in thinking that often when someone is found not guilty of an offence, alledged victims or families of victims go on to win private prosecutions against individuals, and if that is so would this not have been precedence for the FA to use thier powers to the full ?
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
Don't know the legalities of this but am I not right in thinking that often when someone is found not guilty of an offence, alledged victims or families of victims go on to win private prosecutions against individuals, and if that is so would this not have been precedence for the FA to use thier powers to the full ?
terry is guilty as fuck mids you don't need to be a lip reader to see the evidence or the proof
the guy should have been banned for life but the involvement of the police and the court case saved the guys career
you can understand the Ferdinand's frustration but the blame for this whole mess lies firmly at the feet of 1, the wrongs of British justice and 2, the person/persons who involved the police
lets face it the whole episode could have gone a long way to stamping out racism in the sport with a life ban, but from now on any accusation of racism will be followed up with a complaint to the police by the accused lawyers
