Joined up government

1 Sep 2011

"Those who make the wrong decision , who engage in criminal activity,must be identified,arrested and punished, and we will make sure that happens"
11 May ,Home secretary
"The United Kingdom further states that the criminal prosecution of bank employees due to participation in tax offences is highly unlikely."
23 August, clause in UK-Swiss tax deal agreed by chancellor George Osborne
Well that's O.K. then as long as they're consistent .... evil lying bunch of pocket lining hypocritical cunts

1 Sep 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
"Those who make the wrong decision , who engage in criminal activity,must be identified,arrested and punished, and we will make sure that happens"
11 May ,Home secretary
"The United Kingdom further states that the criminal prosecution of bank employees due to participation in tax offences is highly unlikely."
23 August, clause in UK-Swiss tax deal agreed by chancellor George Osborne
Well that's O.K. then as long as they're consistent .... evil lying bunch of pocket lining hypocritical cunts

is this a new thing ??????????
or should it be filed with the benefit fraud thats been going on for the same amount of eons
theft and corruption starts at the bottom and goes all the way to the top
tell me why do you think banks where bailed out when small business was allowed to go under with no offer of a bail out
i think its called the old pals act wink

1 Sep 2011

What is new Rob is their blatantness their sheer lack of shame about their hypocrisy
<< will not enter into any type of debate about 'benefits cheats' in this thread they are a red herring here and a diversionary tactic

1 Sep 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
What is new Rob is their blatantness their sheer lack of shame about their hypocrisy

you mite wanna look at blair and brown for blatant disregard for any thing other than their own pockets and their sheer arrogance towards the voting public
i really dont thing anything has changed

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
<< will not enter into any type of debate about 'benefits cheats' in this thread they are a red herring here and a diversionary tactic

sure you can be tempted with a little nibble :twisted: :twisted:

1 Sep 2011

Quote by Lizaleanrob
What is new Rob is their blatantness their sheer lack of shame about their hypocrisy

you mite wanna look at blair and brown for blatant disregard for any thing other than their own pockets and their sheer arrogance towards the voting public
i really dont thing anything has changed

What makes you think I don't include both .... Much has changed ... even Thatcher tried to hide her service to her cronies ... it seems this is no longer necessary ... only the wealthy are worthy of government, the rest of us, are apparently too ignorant to work out what they're doing

1 Sep 2011

Staggers,

fellow Private Eye reader
also spotted that in the latest edition and was considering a similar post.
Rob,
Bliar & Bruwn had their faults, well discussed in other threads over the years and well reminded, however this is a classic example of the 'joined up Government' that we were promised by both the Conservatives and Lib Dems both 'pre' and 'post' Coalition Agreement.
banghead

Whilst personally neither a looter nor a banker, the inference is clear that we now have the Government actually condemning criminality amongst the generally lower income groups in Society whilst condoning criminality amongst the high income groups.

1 Sep 2011

"We will be as tough on on the richest who evade tax as on those who cheat on benefits" George Osborne
But will obviously give them 20 months to move any incriminating monies and accounts from Switzerland to somewhere more obliging
Interesting that the new deal with Switzerland commits HMRC not to use evidence from whistleblowers and removes the threat of prosecution from the banks themselves

21 PM David Cameron’s age when he joined Bullingdon Club, devoted to excessive drinking and violent disorder, of which he says “like many people, I did things when I was young that I should not have done, and that I regret.”
19 London mayor Boris Johnson’s age when he joined Bullingdon Club and was arrested, which he has described as “deeply pathetic... a matter for shame”.
16 Deputy prime minister Nick Clegg’s age when he behaved “appallingly, irresponsibly, criminally” in drunken arson incident in Germany.
Many thanks to Private Eye for all the info

1 Sep 2011

Quote by HnS
Staggers,
fellow Private Eye reader
also spotted that in the latest edition and was considering a similar post.
Rob,
Bliar & Bruwn had their faults, well discussed in other threads over the years and well reminded, however this is a classic example of the 'joined up Government' that we were promised by both the Conservatives and Lib Dems both 'pre' and 'post' Coalition Agreement.

Whilst personally neither a looter nor a banker, the inference is clear that we now have the Government actually condemning criminality amongst the generally lower income groups in Society whilst condoning criminality amongst the high income groups.

Aiding and abetting at least, if not positively encouraging it

2 Sep 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Staggers,
fellow Private Eye reader
also spotted that in the latest edition and was considering a similar post.
Rob,
Bliar & Bruwn had their faults, well discussed in other threads over the years and well reminded, however this is a classic example of the 'joined up Government' that we were promised by both the Conservatives and Lib Dems both 'pre' and 'post' Coalition Agreement.

Whilst personally neither a looter nor a banker, the inference is clear that we now have the Government actually condemning criminality amongst the generally lower income groups in Society whilst condoning criminality amongst the high income groups.

Aiding and abetting at least, if not positively encouraging it
and i`ll ask again whats changed
did brown not hand over OUR money to reckless so called business men in the form of bank bailouts
did tony not take us to war at our expense on the pretence of a nuclear and chemical weapons threat. which i`ll add never existed and cost a doctor his life when he spoke out (nicley brushed under the carpet by blair and co)
white elephants and back handers and the old pals act
nothing new here really the same as the fact that we`ll never receive payment for the loans we gave to the banks let alone any interest incurred
so i `ll stand by me first statement theft and corruption starts at the bottom and finishes at the top its just those at the top are better connected wink

2 Sep 2011

Interesting Rob that you've twice stated that theft and corruption starts at the bottom and rises to the top? My understanding is that Capitalism is meant to create a trickle-down effect, so surely it's the other way round. confused

I'm playing semantics with you, obviously, but your choice of words and phrasing genuinely interests me. I can't help but wonder why you chose to see corruption as flowing in that particular direction? Use of language is important you see. It's indicative of mind-set? It's the way words are used that enables the obvious double-think pointed out by Staggers in the OP.
I agree entirely with your argument along the lines that if the powers that be are 'condemning criminality amongst the generally lower income groups in Society whilst condoning criminality amongst the high income groups' ((( © HnS 2011 ))) well, twas ever thus, and ever thus will be. Again what interests me is your apparent resignation to it. Does the fact it's always been that way make it any less criminal? Despite their promises of a new politics that would put an end to the sort of Blair / Brown Govt cronyism the world and his wife have been so readily critical of, does the fact nowt's changed not make your blood boil? Why are you seemingly ready to excuse, and less critical of the current lot than you've been of the last lot?
N x x x ;)

2 Sep 2011

Quote by Lizaleanrob"
and i`ll ask again whats changed

did brown not hand over OUR money to reckless so called business men in the form of bank bailouts
did tony not take us to war at our expense on the pretence of a nuclear and chemical weapons threat. which i`ll add never existed and cost a doctor his life when he spoke out (nicley brushed under the carpet by blair and co)
That kind of is the point don't you think Rob .... should this government not learn from the mistakes of previous ones?? Have they not learned that Bankers need more not less monitoring ?? You happily condemn previous prime ministers for their idiocy then shrug off the present incumbents identical idiocy, why ??
white elephants and back handers and the old pals act
nothing new here really the same as the fact that we`ll never receive payment for the loans we gave to the banks let alone any interest incurred
so i `ll stand by me first statement theft and corruption starts at the bottom and finishes at the top its just those at the top are better connected
Well that's alright then ... I'll just nip out and commit a murder after all it's been going on for years so it must be O.K. ... as they used to say .. fire ?? what's wrong with freezing we've been doing it for years why change now
We learn by example .. if this is the best example our 'betters' can offer you would do well to expect some more looting down the high street ... there's nothing in my house worth nicking so I suggest the rich start building their walls higher now

2 Sep 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I think I've answered that Rob or do you really think that political history starts in 1997 ??
did brown not hand over OUR money to reckless so called business men in the form of bank bailouts
did tony not take us to war at our expense on the pretence of a nuclear and chemical weapons threat. which i`ll add never existed and cost a doctor his life when he spoke out (nicley brushed under the carpet by blair and co)
That kind of is the point don't you think Rob .... should this government not learn from the mistakes of previous ones?? Have they not learned that Bankers need more not less monitoring ?? You happily condemn previous prime ministers for their idiocy then shrug off the present incumbents identical idiocy, why ??
white elephants and back handers and the old pals act
nothing new here really the same as the fact that we`ll never receive payment for the loans we gave to the banks let alone any interest incurred
so i `ll stand by me first statement theft and corruption starts at the bottom and finishes at the top its just those at the top are better connected
Well that's alright then ... I'll just nip out and commit a murder after all it's been going on for years so it must be O.K. ... as they used to say .. fire ?? what's wrong with freezing we've been doing it for years why change now
We learn by example .. if this is the best example our 'betters' can offer you would do well to expect some more looting down the high street ... there's nothing in my house worth nicking so I suggest the rich start building their walls higher now

so my point is valid then
"nothings changed "

2 Sep 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
Interesting Rob that you've twice stated that theft and corruption starts at the bottom and rises to the top? My understanding is that Capitalism is meant to create a trickle-down effect, so surely it's the other way round.
I'm playing semantics with you, obviously, but your choice of words and phrasing genuinely interests me. I can't help but wonder why you chose to see corruption as flowing in that particular direction? Use of language is important you see. It's indicative of mind-set? It's the way words are used that enables the obvious double-think pointed out by Staggers in the OP.
I agree entirely with your argument along the lines that if the powers that be are 'condemning criminality amongst the generally lower income groups in Society whilst condoning criminality amongst the high income groups' ((( © HnS 2011 ))) well, twas ever thus, and ever thus will be. Again what interests me is your apparent resignation to it. Does the fact it's always been that way make it any less criminal? Despite their promises of a new politics that would put an end to the sort of Blair / Brown Govt cronyism the world and his wife have been so readily critical of, does the fact nowt's changed not make your blood boil? Why are you seemingly ready to excuse, and less critical of the current lot than you've been of the last lot?
N x x x ;)

so do tell me Neil where do these people start their careers at the very top and work down or do they have to work their way up the corruption ladder>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>waits for side stepping non relevent answer rolleyes

2 Sep 2011

Quote by Rob
so do tell me Neil where do these people start their careers at the very top and work down or do they have to work their way up the corruption ladder

Depends dunnit Rob. Some people, by the fact of of their birth, or availability of life chances denied the vast majority of us start somewhat nearer the top than others. Some are born into or inherit a position nearer the top of the greasy pole than others. Let's call it Class, just for the sake of argument? Think you'll find the thing about Class is that it's self-replicating. Think you'll find there's a a tendency for those at the top to accumulate, and concentrate power and wealth, in a way that can be passed on so as to ensure the next in line starts at a similar position, and is equally if not more able to further concentrate power and wealth. So no, those at the top have not necessarily started at the same place you or I set out from, or got there by their own efforts or merits.

Quote by Rob
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>waits for side stepping non relevent answer

Hope the above is relevant, but wouldn't want to let you down . . . .

Quote by StaggerLee
I suggest the rich start building their walls higher now

Just when I was almost thinking it was time to properly take to the streets, you go and tell the world our strategy? Bollox! mad

It does amaze me though, the lack of anger. Or more precisely, the misdirection of it. I read things sometimes and think on what planet do these people live on? The people in Govt, who are clearly fucking witless, and those who somehow manage to convince themselves the people in Govt have half a bloody clue what they're doing, and imagine they'll act in their interests? And then I find meself holding my head in my hands wondering, to the point of despair, why, in a big-society pro-social kinda way I should give a flying one about those who clearly do not give a flying one about me, or people like me. And then of course after a few seconds thought I realise that's the whole point, isn't it? It's deliberate. It's about yer classic divide and rule. Then I start to wonder how it can be that I can see it, not being especially possessed of what you might call an enormous intellect, but seemingly so few others can?
It's properly starting to piss me right off so it is. Thing is, like everyone else, I don't know how to direct that anger either? dunno

N x x x ;)

2 Sep 2011

Quote by Lizaleanrob
so my point is valid then
"nothings changed "

If that REALLY is your point Rob then it may well be true , valid is a different thing …
valid adjective
/?væl.?d/
•
based on truth or reason; able to be accepted
Able to be accepted ?? not really,not from any non partisan view point.

Quote by Lizaleanrob
so do tell me Neil where do these people start their careers at the very top and work down or do they have to work their way up the corruption ladder>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>waits for side stepping non relevent answer

I'll tell you Rob ….. politics no real climbing of the slippery pole there just anointed by a leader...
take a look at a certain David Cameron's career path a man with a fairly strong link to high end banking … strange that
Banking and finance … take a look at the career path of a certain Nicholas William Peter Clegg not a great deal of ladder climbing there … it seems his daddy was a big thing in some kind of financial institution or other
Politics again … a certain George Gideon Oliver Osborne ,heir to the Osborne baronetcy (of Ballentaylor, in County Tipperary, and Ballylemon, in County Waterford).
Banking .. Frederick Anderson Goodwin … not a great deal of hard graft in the boiler room in that background (a good working class lad though …. shame the middle classes got their claws into him)
Here's a good one … banking again...António Mota de Sousa Horta Osório … leaves university and within 3 years is vice president of citibank in Portugal
No no-one ever jumps onto the top rung … or even the one just below it,it's just years and years of stoking boilers and cleaning toilets

2 Sep 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
It does amaze me though, the lack of anger. Or more precisely, the misdirection of it. I read things sometimes and think on what planet do these people live on? The people in Govt, who are clearly fucking witless, and those who somehow manage to convince themselves the people in Govt have half a bloody clue what they're doing, and imagine they'll act in their interests? And then I find meself holding my head in my hands wondering, to the point of despair, why, in a big-society pro-social kinda way I should give a flying one about those who clearly do not give a flying one about me, or people like me. And then of course after a few seconds thought I realise that's the whole point, isn't it? It's deliberate. It's about yer classic divide and rule. Then I start to wonder how it can be that I can see it, not being especially possessed of what you might call an enormous intellect, but seemingly so few others can?
It's properly starting to piss me right off so it is. Thing is, like everyone else, I don't know how to direct that anger either?
N x x x ;)

I do have a great deal of sympathy with your feelings ... my conclusion is that I'm obviously far cleverer than those who swallow the (financial*) bait and end up in a as you say divide and rule ,so I try to release the minnows from their prison.
As for anger I do have a few ideas about how and where to direct it, but apparently they would be frowned upon by 'polite' society
* lets be honest it does usually boil down to cold hard cash and who will take less of it in taxes ..... hint; they tell lies they may well take less of your wages but they have their fingers in your wallet

3 Sep 2011

i think you guys miss the point
i honestly can't believe that intelligent people like you guys are so outraged that
1: the politicians lied to the voters
2: that the government made promises that it never was going to keep
3: that the old pals act has came into play and some higher members of society seemingly are above the law
4:nothing has changed in 40 years and you expected it to change this time based on a politicians say so before a general election :doh:

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
this game of fat cat and mouse has probably been going on since Parliament was very first formed after all who funds all these elections
but it does go to show that even by bribing the banks is no guarantee of getting into back into government
i don't think others don't know or are too stupid to know whats going on, i just think that most accept that this is the way its been for so long that its accepted as the norm
just out of interest do you think any of the other party's (front runners not the ones that loose their deposits) would or will be any different at all wink

3 Sep 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Banking .. Frederick Anderson Goodwin ... not a great deal of hard graft in the boiler room in that background (a good working class lad though .... shame the middle classes got their claws into him)

ahh yes tell me how did rbs fair under his reign

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Here's a good one ... banking again...António Mota de Sousa Horta Osório ... leaves university and within 3 years is vice president of citibank in Portugal

we are talking 1990 some 20 years back you might like to look at his qualifications for his post i do believe he was the top student for his time in Europe ..........so his had work paid off dunno

or should we just pull the names out of a hat for who gets the job i`ll nominate karen mathews for the bank of England post

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
No no-one ever jumps onto the top rung ... or even the one just below it,it's just years and years of stoking boilers and cleaning toilets

thanks for giving me two examples of why you should and shouldn't be a banking CEO

3 Sep 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
It's properly starting to piss me right off so it is. Thing is, like everyone else, I don't know how to direct that anger either?
N x x x ;)

Probably those same words were said by ordinary people, recently, in lets say, Eygpt, Tunisia, Syria and Libya. Maybe Russia in early 1900s, France in the 1780s.
I do believe people can be pushed too far and it's usually because the people at the top don't (or don't want to) understand what is happening outside of their own way of life.
John

3 Sep 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
It's properly starting to piss me right off so it is. Thing is, like everyone else, I don't know how to direct that anger either?
N x x x ;)

As a simple country boy, my view is that people disliked/hated/spat blood at the Thatcher years, Major took over, not a lot changed. So a number of people decided that Blair was saying all the right things (education education education?) so let's teach those self serving Tories a lesson, let's get Labour in.
After 13 years, people disliked/hated/spat blood at the Blair years, Brown took over, not a lot changed, so a number of people decided that it was time for change, however, there was no obvious or credible option, so we had our first coalition Government since the 1940's.
People are disliking/hating/spitting blood at the decisions the Tories are making, some of them borne out of necessity, many of them made without thinking of any alternatives. We have seen student demo's, NHS cuts marches etc, but no real display of feeling, the last time anything like that of any note has bee done, was the Poll tax riots.
So what will happen now? People will decide they have had enough of disliking/hating/spitting blood, and decide they will vote this current Government out, Clegg and the Liberals will never happen, Cameron and the Tories are making too many unpopular and ill thought out decisions, and Milliband and Labour are not seizing the chance they have to make a case for themselves.
But due to the feeling toward current Government, people will vote in Labour at the next election. Not because they want Labour, but because they don't want Cameron.
No anger will be directed, just walking to the ballot box staring at feet as they do, and so all the above continues, with different names eating out of the Downing Street trough.

3 Sep 2011

Quote by Lizaleanrob
so do tell me Neil where do these people start their careers at the very top and work down or do they have to work their way up the corruption ladder>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>waits for side stepping non relevent answer

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Here's a good one ... banking again...António Mota de Sousa Horta Osório ... leaves university and within 3 years is vice president of citibank in Portugal

Quote by Lizaleanrob
we are talking 1990 some 20 years back you might like to look at his qualifications for his post i do believe he was the top student for his time in Europe ..........so his had work paid off or should we just pull the names out of a hat for who gets the job i`ll nominate karen mathews for the bank of England post

See Rob I was answering a specific question … you asked it FFS
I wasn't aware that you'd set some kind of time scale within which I had to work
Oh and you may like to look at his family background ... it's on the wiki ... now lets ask ourselves again what may have brought about his leap to the top ??

Quote by Lizaleanrob
i think you guys miss the point
i honestly can't believe that intelligent people like you guys are so outraged that
1: the politicians lied to the voters
2: that the government made promises that it never was going to keep
3: that the old pals act has came into play and some higher members of society seemingly are above the law
4:nothing has changed in 40 years and you expected it to change this time based on a politicians say so before a general election :doh:
:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
this game of fat cat and mouse has probably been going on since Parliament was very first formed after all who funds all these elections
but it does go to show that even by bribing the banks is no guarantee of getting into back into government
i don't think others don't know or are too stupid to know whats going on, i just think that most accept that this is the way its been for so long that its accepted as the norm
just out of interest do you think any of the other party's (front runners not the ones that loose their deposits) would or will be any different at all

No Rob I think you are deliberately avoiding the point …. that things haven't changed is WRONG
As for outrage, we can only, given your supine acceptance of the status quo under the latest government , assume that your own foam flecked screams at the actions of the previous government, were just so much cant and hyperbole … I for one, will, in future be working under the assumption that your condemnation of Blair and Brown is just fake.

3 Sep 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB

so do tell me Neil where do these people start their careers at the very top and work down or do they have to work their way up the corruption ladder>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>waits for side stepping non relevent answer

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Here's a good one ... banking again...António Mota de Sousa Horta Osório ... leaves university and within 3 years is vice president of citibank in Portugal

Quote by Lizaleanrob
we are talking 1990 some 20 years back you might like to look at his qualifications for his post i do believe he was the top student for his time in Europe ..........so his had work paid off or should we just pull the names out of a hat for who gets the job i`ll nominate karen mathews for the bank of England post

See Rob I was answering a specific question ... you asked it FFS
I wasn't aware that you'd set some kind of time scale within which I had to work
Oh and you may like to look at his family background ... it's on the wiki ... now lets ask ourselves again what may have brought about his leap to the top ??
see staggs you answered you own criticism..... this guy got the job on merit not on a promise
being at a privileged school is indeed a privilege but he rightfully in my mind proved not only should he have been there but also that given his chance he made the very most of it, to become the top student in Europe the job and his starting point is justified imho

Quote by Lizaleanrob
i think you guys miss the point
i honestly can't believe that intelligent people like you guys are so outraged that
1: the politicians lied to the voters
2: that the government made promises that it never was going to keep
3: that the old pals act has came into play and some higher members of society seemingly are above the law
4:nothing has changed in 40 years and you expected it to change this time based on a politicians say so before a general election :doh:
:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
this game of fat cat and mouse has probably been going on since Parliament was very first formed after all who funds all these elections
but it does go to show that even by bribing the banks is no guarantee of getting into back into government
i don't think others don't know or are too stupid to know whats going on, i just think that most accept that this is the way its been for so long that its accepted as the norm
just out of interest do you think any of the other party's (front runners not the ones that loose their deposits) would or will be any different at all

No Rob I think you are deliberately avoiding the point .... that things haven't changed is WRONG
As for outrage, we can only, given your supine acceptance of the status quo under the latest government , assume that your own foam flecked screams at the actions of the previous government, were just so much cant and hyperbole ... I for one, will, in future be working under the assumption that your condemnation of Blair and Brown is just fake.
not really staggs im just pointing out that the last and the one before that and before that again are all the same
they just wear a different coloured tie
i think essex 34m explains it perfectly
my personal opinion is that the coalition has just carried on from where the last government left off and that the current outrage in this thread is based more on the colour of the tie than what they did
just telling you how it looks from here take neils little avitar at the bottom of all his posts innocent

as you well know i don't favour any self serving governments from local to pm .....as being on the take is the first and only qualification needed

10 Sep 2011

Disingenuous ..... now there's a word