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Legalise Cannabis !?

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Hi
here are a couple of questions id like to ask
1- how come you cannot go into a shop or chemist to buy a drug (canabis)which once consumed/smoked makes the user lathargic and half asleep with no intention of causing anyone any trouble yet you can walk into any high street supermarket or corner shop and buy an evil liquid called alcohol which can leave the user violent and causes so much damage in the community.
2- cigarettes come in a box with pictures on the box showing gum decay, lung disease e.t.c. yet again the evil liquid called alcohol does not show pictures of diseased livers, battered wives and killed people on the roadside.
I have had the lectures on how safe cannibis is and how it has no long term addiction and know the Hemp argument so well.
I have also seen a total family destroyed by its father being a cannibis smoker (not skunk)- the paranoia and anxiety side affects which after 10 years I am exhausted from trying to resolve.
In Scotland cannabis is an every day activity on some estates and watching the people live in an unreal world of apathy and poverty has really demoralised my view on the safety of cannabis.
I totally agree that drink is addictive so I am not comparing but for those people who say that cannabis is safe I cannot agree as I believe that I have seen over 10 years too many people in their teens, 20's and 30's and 40's all fall victim to the side affects of a substance that yes does not give you a hangover and yes does not make you violent or want to steal but a substance that can take away your love of life, create paranoia, stop you achieving your goals and stop you having relationships with friends and families.
I think thats the saddest part for me knowing good people who have not been able to break their habits even though all the time I am told it is not addictive .......
Quote by corrie2008
I have had the lectures on how safe cannibis is and how it has no long term addiction and know the Hemp argument so well.
I have also seen a total family destroyed by its father being a cannibis smoker (not skunk)- the paranoia and anxiety side affects which after 10 years I am exhausted from trying to resolve.
In Scotland cannabis is an every day activity on some estates and watching the people live in an unreal world of apathy and poverty has really demoralised my view on the safety of cannabis.
I totally agree that drink is addictive so I am not comparing but for those people who say that cannabis is safe I cannot agree as I believe that I have seen over 10 years too many people in their teens, 20's and 30's and 40's all fall victim to the side affects of a substance that yes does not give you a hangover and yes does not make you violent or want to steal but a substance that can take away your love of life, create paranoia, stop you achieving your goals and stop you having relationships with friends and families.
I think thats the saddest part for me knowing good people who have not been able to break their habits even though all the time I am told it is not addictive .......

Undoubtably some people do abuse cannabis by smoking it every day, but maybe these people are lunchouts anyway, from my experience of life, some people are just plain lazy, or press the self destruct button at every opportunity, if you could wave a magic wand and do away with drugs today, alot of them would just take up glue sniffing or alcoholism instead - should the rest of society be criminalised because of the lumpen few ?
Sorry doesn't wash what you have said. Heard that one too much. 1 in 4 people have mental health problems and yes I imagine other subsances will always be used if one is taken away. Not that all people with mental health problems take substances.
Of course let people do what is legal but I was not talking about one or two people who are affected I am talking about thousands. They didnt start out lazy and apathetic. They just got into a way of life where they were told recreational drugs have no side affects or addiction.
I will never win on this argument but having been on the outside and seen what it has done to others I am saddened that life has to be ruled by any substance. Maybe if people just could have fun in their lives without believing that drugs of any nature are what relaxes them we would have better relationships inside and outside of families.
Good idea, legalise it.
Then it can be taxed.
The money can be used to make free prescriptions available. Again.
After all, why should a course of antibiotics cost me when the actual cost to the nhs, at the point of sale, is ?
Or a ventolin inhaler at when the cost to the nhs is ?
I should care what drug addicts have to pay ?
Anyone who needs drugs to get their jollies has more problems than worrying about legality.
Like: worrying about whether their brain is working.
Quote by JTS
Good idea, legalise it.
Then it can be taxed.
The money can be used to make free prescriptions available. Again.
After all, why should a course of antibiotics cost me when the actual cost to the nhs, at the point of sale, is ?
Or a ventolin inhaler at when the cost to the nhs is ?
I should care what drug addicts have to pay ?
Anyone who needs drugs to get their jollies has more problems than worrying about legality.
Like: worrying about whether their brain is working.

I hear you about the prescriptions - especially generics like antibiotics.
And can I assume from your last 2 lines that you are a tee-total, non-smoker?
Quote by corrie2008
Sorry doesn't wash what you have said. Heard that one too much. 1 in 4 people have mental health problems and yes I imagine other subsances will always be used if one is taken away. Not that all people with mental health problems take substances.
Of course let people do what is legal but I was not talking about one or two people who are affected I am talking about thousands. They didnt start out lazy and apathetic. They just got into a way of life where they were told recreational drugs have no side affects or addiction.
I will never win on this argument but having been on the outside and seen what it has done to others I am saddened that life has to be ruled by any substance. Maybe if people just could have fun in their lives without believing that drugs of any nature are what relaxes them we would have better relationships inside and outside of families.

Where did you get you're statistics from ? it implies that 1 in 4 of the population have suffered mental health breakdowns as a result of cannabis - I don't think so somehow !
Recent published stats say that 1 in 20,000 may have had schizophrenia triggered by cannabis use, but one must also remember that causes of schizophrenia are more likely to have been other life factors such as abuse etc, and that other stressful episodes such as death of a loved one etc can trigger breakdowns aswell.
Again, should 19,999 people be criminalised because of the one ?
You mention people sinking into lethargy - alot of people to this anyway, drugs or no drugs ! There is such a think as self discepline and will power !
With regards JTS remark that it is undesirable to be able to only get you're jollies from drugs - I agree - but then again it is undesirable to only get you're jollies from any single activity in life (including swinging !)
Quote by Riotandantony
Sorry doesn't wash what you have said. Heard that one too much. 1 in 4 people have mental health problems and yes I imagine other subsances will always be used if one is taken away. Not that all people with mental health problems take substances.
Of course let people do what is legal but I was not talking about one or two people who are affected I am talking about thousands. They didnt start out lazy and apathetic. They just got into a way of life where they were told recreational drugs have no side affects or addiction.
I will never win on this argument but having been on the outside and seen what it has done to others I am saddened that life has to be ruled by any substance. Maybe if people just could have fun in their lives without believing that drugs of any nature are what relaxes them we would have better relationships inside and outside of families.

Where did you get you're statistics from ? it implies that 1 in 4 of the population have suffered mental health breakdowns as a result of cannabis - I don't think so somehow !
Recent published stats say that 1 in 20,000 may have had schizophrenia triggered by cannabis use, but one must also remember that causes of schizophrenia are more likely to have been other life factors such as abuse etc, and that other stressful episodes such as death of a loved one etc can trigger breakdowns aswell.
Again, should 19,00 people be criminalised because of the one ?
You mention people sinking into lethargy - alot of people to this anyway, drugs or no drugs ! There is such a think as self discepline and will power !
With regards JTS remark that it is undesirable to be able to only get you're jollies from drugs - I agree - but then again it is undesirable to only get you're jollies from any single activity in life (including swinging !)
totally agree - well put
Just as with alcohol, there is a small percentage who have pre-disposition to paranoia and schizophrenia that is exacerbated by prolonged (several months or more) chronic (every day, all day) use of cannabis. Out of everyone I've ever known who has smoked it (this is most people I know or have known for the last 30 years - so probably around a 1,000 +, 4 have had mental problems, 2 had prior mental problems anyway, 1 was very highly strung and had a breakdown - but is better now and abstains totally, and 1 had panic attacks if combining it with alcohol - so does either or, but not both.
In the same period I've seen 6 people die from alcohol related issues, including alcoholism, and about 10 have heart attacks, bypasses etc due to general poor health, diet and lifestyle, including excessive alcohol intake.
I know these figures are anecdotal and not necessarily statistically representative - but my sense of it is, that most people use psychoactive substances recreationally in a responsible and measured manner. Sensible people take note of any adverse side effects and elect to abstain from any particular substance.
Quote by Riotandantony
Sorry doesn't wash what you have said. Heard that one too much. 1 in 4 people have mental health problems and yes I imagine other subsances will always be used if one is taken away. Not that all people with mental health problems take substances.
Of course let people do what is legal but I was not talking about one or two people who are affected I am talking about thousands. They didnt start out lazy and apathetic. They just got into a way of life where they were told recreational drugs have no side affects or addiction.
I will never win on this argument but having been on the outside and seen what it has done to others I am saddened that life has to be ruled by any substance. Maybe if people just could have fun in their lives without believing that drugs of any nature are what relaxes them we would have better relationships inside and outside of families.

Where did you get you're statistics from ? it implies that 1 in 4 of the population have suffered mental health breakdowns as a result of cannabis - I don't think so somehow !
Recent published stats say that 1 in 20,000 may have had schizophrenia triggered by cannabis use, but one must also remember that causes of schizophrenia are more likely to have been other life factors such as abuse etc, and that other stressful episodes such as death of a loved one etc can trigger breakdowns aswell.
Again, should 19,999 people be criminalised because of the one ?
You mention people sinking into lethargy - alot of people to this anyway, drugs or no drugs ! There is such a think as self discepline and will power !
With regards JTS remark that it is undesirable to be able to only get you're jollies from drugs - I agree - but then again it is undesirable to only get you're jollies from any single activity in life (including swinging !)
1 in 4 people have mental health problems - nothing to do with cannabis, just a general statistic on mental health which is what I said.
You are obviously passionate about legalisation and I am would say I am passionate about it not being. As I said and I am entitled to my point of view cannabis smokers wont agree with my view but having spent the last 10 years around so many users no one will convince me different.
If its for medical reasons its no different to the use of any perscribed drug - I would support controlled use.
I wont write any more as you put up a thread and are now seemingly not liking getting responses which differ from your own.
Quote by foxylady2209
Good idea, legalise it.
Then it can be taxed.
The money can be used to make free prescriptions available. Again.
After all, why should a course of antibiotics cost me when the actual cost to the nhs, at the point of sale, is ?
Or a ventolin inhaler at when the cost to the nhs is ?
I should care what drug addicts have to pay ?
Anyone who needs drugs to get their jollies has more problems than worrying about legality.
Like: worrying about whether their brain is working.

I hear you about the prescriptions - especially generics like antibiotics.
And can I assume from your last 2 lines that you are a tee-total, non-smoker?
Don't forget non tea, coffee, coke etc etc drinker Foxy... wink
Quote by jumptoit
I have never heard of anyone being stabbed for the price of a can of Carlsberg.....
However reading the local papers drug addicts are always in court for either armed robbery,mugging or shop lifting,so yes it is a police matter which costs us the tax payer and legalising it would make no difference as the user would still have to pay for the drugs.
With regards to the shop lifting that goes with it,then again we are all paying for it as the shops just increase prices to cover there losses.

...Maybe not, but I have seen many times where people are fighting each other in the street, then you hear about gangs of drunken youths beating someone to death in the street, and how about when people become alcoholics, not only ruining there own lives but the lives of their families & friends too.
Alcohol is a very dangerous substance if abused, yet funnily enough it is very highly taxable, so it's allowed.
I personally think that any addiction is down to the person, I drink quite regularly but it doesn't bother me if I can't have a drink for any reason, I have also sampled most oral drugs, and cocaine. I had about a year in my early 20s taking all sorts of substances, then just decided I was tired of it and stopped. I haven't touched anything for about 6 years and it's not bothered me at all.
1 in 4 people have mental health problems - nothing to do with cannabis, just a general statistic on mental health which is what I said.
You are obviously passionate about legalisation and I am would say I am passionate about it not being. As I said and I am entitled to my point of view cannabis smokers wont agree with my view but having spent the last 10 years around so many users no one will convince me different.
If its for medical reasons its no different to the use of any perscribed drug - I would support controlled use.
I wont write any more as you put up a thread and are now seemingly not liking getting responses which differ from your own.
1 in 4!!!! - I seriously doubt that - where do you get your figures from? I guess it depends on your definition of mental health problems - everyone gets depressed or down from time to time, but I wouldn't classify that as having mental health problems.
1 in 4, that means on average every fourth person I meet, see on the street, pass on the motorway etc, has mental health problems - I really can't take that figure seriously
Corrie 2008
"1 in 4 people have mental health problems - nothing to do with cannabis, just a general statistic on mental health which is what I said.
You are obviously passionate about legalisation and I am would say I am passionate about it not being. As I said and I am entitled to my point of view cannabis smokers wont agree with my view but having spent the last 10 years around so many users no one will convince me different."
If its for medical reasons its no different to the use of any perscribed drug - I would support controlled use.
I wont write any more as you put up a thread and are now seemingly not liking getting responses which differ from your own.
1 in 4!!!! - I seriously doubt that - where do you get your figures from? I guess it depends on your definition of mental health problems - everyone gets depressed or down from time to time, but I wouldn't classify that as having mental health problems.
1 in 4, that means on average every fourth person I meet, see on the street, pass on the motorway etc, has mental health problems - I really can't take that figure seriously
Mental health is about how we think, feel and behave. One in four people in the UK have a mental health problem at some point in their lives, which affects their daily life, relationships or physical health. NHS June 2009.
I dont quote facts unless I have looked them up. As I said I take this subject seriously. I should have quantified the stats better as stated above but as I said its still a subject which if discussed people want to say that abusers are just wasters. I think the national campaign to help people understand mental health issues and take is more seriously will help us all understand why people behave in the way that they do.
Anyway just wanted to clarify the stat.
Quote by jumptoit
I have never heard of anyone being stabbed for the price of a can of Carlsberg.....
However reading the local papers drug addicts are always in court for either armed robbery,mugging or shop lifting,so yes it is a police matter which costs us the tax payer and legalising it would make no difference as the user would still have to pay for the drugs.
With regards to the shop lifting that goes with it,then again we are all paying for it as the shops just increase prices to cover there losses.

You need to see the stats on domestic violence then if you've never heard of anyone being stabbed for a drink.
And goes for men and women. You'll find more assaults etc are due to alcohol than anything else. Just take a look in any town centre on a friday or saturday night and you'll see what drink does to people. And it also contributes to a lot of shoplfiting crimes as well.
Bull's 1978 paper on the HTC content of cannabis and its effect on the limbic system was meant to show how the limbic system degrades after much exposure to the compound. The results were by no means conclusive. Indeed just five years later in 1983, Tosh's lab results for experiments on the same system showed the opposite may be the case. Where's those ear goggles? The work done on the degeneration of the Stria Mudullaris by Alcock three years later in 2004 caused a stir but was again not conclusive. Itsityrical bits. Many of the social reports, where's those ear goggles? Its often made light of in the or it could be a cat maybe, thinking about his girlfriend. Cos that's where the problem comes from sometimes isn't it? I'm mean they call people this and they call people that and they call passive people hippies and blah blah woof woof all down the line. Where's those ear goggles? It's cos they're not in love man. Cowboys and Indians don't stay in tune anyway. Gee I'm feeling so hungry. As anyone got anything to eat?
Quote by easyrider_xxx
Just as with alcohol, there is a small percentage who have pre-disposition to paranoia and schizophrenia that is exacerbated by prolonged (several months or more) chronic (every day, all day) use of cannabis. Out of everyone I've ever known who has smoked it (this is most people I know or have known for the last 30 years - so probably around a 1,000 +, 4 have had mental problems, 2 had prior mental problems anyway, 1 was very highly strung and had a breakdown - but is better now and abstains totally, and 1 had panic attacks if combining it with alcohol - so does either or, but not both.

Err lets just clarify here. Those are the ones that didn't give a toss about the stigma attached to mental health problems, or were actually aware that something wasn't quite right, or maybe just had a formal diagnosis that they were willing to share with you.
I'm sure you didn't share every aspect of your life with them and it follows that they wouldn't share every aspect with you.
I have personal experience of how cannabis can effect individuals and their mental health. Some people just cannot handle the active component (THC?) and become ill very quickly after ingesting. Everyone reacts differently to anything they ingest, my partner can eat curry, it rockets through me like a steam train :shock: Needless to say if they're smoking all day, every day then it does become less of an 'if' and more of a 'when'.
If people have a bad reaction to prescription medication, then they are seldom given that drug again, but with illicit drugs people can obtain them without the same kind of controls.
I don't think I've ever heard of someone suffering a serious and debilitating psychotic episode which causes them to loose a year + from their life after taking a few puffs on a cigarette, or a couple of drinks, have done with cannabis though. The problems generated by tobacco and alcohol appear to be more cumulative in my experience.
Quote by easyrider_xxx
1 in 4!!!! - I seriously doubt that - where do you get your figures from?

That's a well known statistic within the health profession.

Quote by easyrider_xxx
I guess it depends on your definition of mental health problems - everyone gets depressed or down from time to time, but I wouldn't classify that as having mental health problems.

Well it's not Corries interpretation, it's probably a correlation of data from 'front-line' health professionals such as GPs, doctors, nurses etc.
So where do you draw the line for when someone's feeling 'depressed or down'? When they're stood on a bridge or when they approach a GP with a problem (which has probably been going on for months, but more likely, years)?
Personally I'd class a mental health problem as having an immediate and/or enduring negative impact on a persons day to day existence. Most people with MH issues function, they don't live, for many this is their 'normal' life and they don't get help either because they're embarrassed by the possibility of being labeled a loon or because it's been a gradual onset and they just accept it.
Oh and as this started about drugs, can anyone name the most popular depressant in the UK? :beer:
So going back to the op, do I think that cannabis should be legalised? Not sure, but I tend to lean towards the no side. There's really good research being done at the moment around the benefits of cannabis and how to extract the active chemicals and replicate them for use in treating other illnesses without having to ingest the harmful components, which would negate the 'medical benefits' argument. Without that I see no further need to legalise another substance that could be described as having a negative effect on society.
Quote by easy
Oh and as this started about drugs, can anyone name the most popular depressant in the UK?

Eastenders - last time I was unfortuate enough to catch a glimpse.
bolt
Quote by foxylady2209

Oh and as this started about drugs, can anyone name the most popular depressant in the UK?

Eastenders - last time I was unfortuate enough to catch a glimpse.
bolt
rotflmao :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
:thumbup:
Quote by easy
Just as with alcohol, there is a small percentage who have pre-disposition to paranoia and schizophrenia that is exacerbated by prolonged (several months or more) chronic (every day, all day) use of cannabis. Out of everyone I've ever known who has smoked it (this is most people I know or have known for the last 30 years - so probably around a 1,000 +, 4 have had mental problems, 2 had prior mental problems anyway, 1 was very highly strung and had a breakdown - but is better now and abstains totally, and 1 had panic attacks if combining it with alcohol - so does either or, but not both.

Err lets just clarify here. Those are the ones that didn't give a toss about the stigma attached to mental health problems, or were actually aware that something wasn't quite right, or maybe just had a formal diagnosis that they were willing to share with you.
I'm sure you didn't share every aspect of your life with them and it follows that they wouldn't share every aspect with you.
I have personal experience of how cannabis can effect individuals and their mental health. Some people just cannot handle the active component (THC?) and become ill very quickly after ingesting. Everyone reacts differently to anything they ingest, my partner can eat curry, it rockets through me like a steam train :shock: Needless to say if they're smoking all day, every day then it does become less of an 'if' and more of a 'when'.
If people have a bad reaction to prescription medication, then they are seldom given that drug again, but with illicit drugs people can obtain them without the same kind of controls.
I don't think I've ever heard of someone suffering a serious and debilitating psychotic episode which causes them to loose a year + from their life after taking a few puffs on a cigarette, or a couple of drinks, have done with cannabis though. The problems generated by tobacco and alcohol appear to be more cumulative in my experience.
Quote by easyrider_xxx
1 in 4!!!! - I seriously doubt that - where do you get your figures from?

That's a well known statistic within the health profession.

Quote by easyrider_xxx
I guess it depends on your definition of mental health problems - everyone gets depressed or down from time to time, but I wouldn't classify that as having mental health problems.

Well it's not Corries interpretation, it's probably a correlation of data from 'front-line' health professionals such as GPs, doctors, nurses etc.
So where do you draw the line for when someone's feeling 'depressed or down'? When they're stood on a bridge or when they approach a GP with a problem (which has probably been going on for months, but more likely, years)?
Personally I'd class a mental health problem as having an immediate and/or enduring negative impact on a persons day to day existence. Most people with MH issues function, they don't live, for many this is their 'normal' life and they don't get help either because they're embarrassed by the possibility of being labeled a loon or because it's been a gradual onset and they just accept it.
Oh and as this started about drugs, can anyone name the most popular depressant in the UK? :beer:
So going back to the op, do I think that cannabis should be legalised? Not sure, but I tend to lean towards the no side. There's really good research being done at the moment around the benefits of cannabis and how to extract the active chemicals and replicate them for use in treating other illnesses without having to ingest the harmful components, which would negate the 'medical benefits' argument. Without that I see no further need to legalise another substance that could be described as having a negative effect on society.
:thumbup:
i say legalise it, I work for a university (maths/science dude so excuse the lack of grammer) and weed is everywhere, to all the daily mail brigade who seem to see green as this "super skunk" crap, yes lets all smoke resin with its crushed up vinyl, boot polish and diesel it's so much safer (have you ever seen what goes into res?). Yes it can isolate you, make you lazy etc but is it any worse than booze or the fags? Nope, all you ever see in the media is the downsides of the drug, the "i smoked 80 joints a day and stabbed people." Like any drug be it booze, hell even chocolate when taken to excess will screw some folks up. Maybe it's more to do with the nanny state raising a generation who have no self control, no self respect etc. I dunno. For the record I regularly smoke weed, i don't drink much anymore, I don't steal to fund my habit; I hold down a proper and demanding job. Seriously to those who equate pot heads to crime, its rubbish, try looking at coke/booze/brown related crime to see real drug related disorder, i am yet to meet a dope smoker who would rob/steal/beg to fund their habit
Sorry for the rant but it really bugs me to see all the bad press weed gets when they (media types) refuse to compare it to booze or other imo more damaging substances but then again if you live in the city and work in the media/banking sector its socially accpetable to drink dangerous amounts of booze and stuff coke up your nose on a regular basis but pot heads are portrayed as "dirty stoners" when in reality I work with pot smokers in my university on a daily basis who have more sense and brains/intelligence than half the people who work in the press/media/finance sector
i hope your as happy to stand up and be counted if the university decided to do a drug test and you lost your job and reputation.
i dont compare cannibis to alcohol or coke etc , as i thik they all have their own devils, and just because there are already enough life fucking up sht out here thats legal does not to me mean we should add another one to the legal list of crap.
i work within a housing estate that see the robbing, the unemployment, the dropout of canabis smoking people.
im not saying you cant hold down a job being a dope head, there are people with very hig powered jobs who are crack adicts.
i know i wouldnt be happy if my childrens tutor was a dope head.
just because lots of people do something does not give a balanced reason to legalise it.
xx fem xx