forgiveness is cool
the law's an ass
forgive and for-burn, thats what I think
lp
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Mercy
outside of britain and the u.s. its well known that he did'nt do it. that along with access to libyan oil was the reason he dropped his appeal with undeniable proof beyond all reasonable doubt that he did not do it and to be kept as the "convicted" bomber (they dont want to have to look for who did do it, they have always known that) he goes home under the cover of "mercy". i hope you dont believe the story of the perfect condition green saudi passport found at ground zero, which is how they knew the leader of the "terrorist's" on 9/11. if they had'nt let him go, the libyan's were threatening to "blow the gaff" and sell their oil in euro's and chinese yuan instead of dollars. read the international press and research the issues instead of swallowing crap. faithfully yours
Sex God
What he said
Mercy???
It was not done for mercy or compassion, it was done purely and simply for oil.
I can only imagine how the family of those killed must be feeling to be let down so badly, by politicians again.
The " special " relationship we have with the USA, of which we need for security purposes, is threatened because of a few barrels of oil.
Self gratification is what I call it, certainly never a mercy mission......shame on them.....AGAIN.
It was not done for mercy or compassion, it was done purely and simply for oil.
I can only imagine how the family of those killed must be feeling to be let down so badly, by politicians again.
The " special " relationship we have with the USA, of which we need for security purposes, is threatened because of a few barrels of oil.
Self gratification is what I call it, certainly never a mercy mission......shame on them.....AGAIN.
Quote by kentswingers777
Mercy???
It was not done for mercy or compassion, it was done purely and simply for oil.
I can only imagine how the family of those killed must be feeling to be let down so badly, by politicians again.
The " special " relationship we have with the USA, of which we need for security purposes, is threatened because of a few barrels of oil.
Self gratification is what I call it, certainly never a mercy mission......shame on them.....AGAIN.
Security Purposes??
I think they need us more than we need them!
Quote by Mr-Powers
Mercy???
It was not done for mercy or compassion, it was done purely and simply for oil.
I can only imagine how the family of those killed must be feeling to be let down so badly, by politicians again.
The " special " relationship we have with the USA, of which we need for security purposes, is threatened because of a few barrels of oil.
Self gratification is what I call it, certainly never a mercy mission......shame on them.....AGAIN.
Security Purposes??
I think they need us more than we need them!
On what do you base that?
The Americans rightly are right to be pissed off with the release of this bloke.
As the plane came down in Scotland it was covered by Scottish law, hence why he was tried there and sent to prison there but.....had the Yanks have been able to try him in the USA, he would have died in prison which I think under those circumstances would have been the correct course of action.
Remember that the Americans share very sophisticated satellite surveylane methods with us, which we do not have, and that information is critical in gathering information. ANY information that is not shared by the Americans with us, can only end up being detrimental to our national security and our soldiers fighting abroad.
Quote by kentswingers777
Mercy???
It was not done for mercy or compassion, it was done purely and simply for oil.
I can only imagine how the family of those killed must be feeling to be let down so badly, by politicians again.
The " special " relationship we have with the USA, of which we need for security purposes, is threatened because of a few barrels of oil.
Self gratification is what I call it, certainly never a mercy mission......shame on them.....AGAIN.
Security Purposes??
I think they need us more than we need them!
On what do you base that?
Well what do you base it on then...why do we need them for "Security Purposes"...cannot we not fend for ourselves without them?
Quote by kentswingers777
Mercy???
It was not done for mercy or compassion, it was done purely and simply for oil.
I can only imagine how the family of those killed must be feeling to be let down so badly, by politicians again.
The " special " relationship we have with the USA, of which we need for security purposes, is threatened because of a few barrels of oil.
Self gratification is what I call it, certainly never a mercy mission......shame on them.....AGAIN.
Security Purposes??
I think they need us more than we need them!
On what do you base that?
The Americans rightly are right to be pissed off with the release of this bloke.
As the plane came down in Scotland it was covered by Scottish law, hence why he was tried there and sent to prison there but.....had the Yanks have been able to try him in the USA, he would have died in prison which I think under those circumstances would have been the correct course of action.
Remember that the Americans share very sophisticated satellite surveylane methods with us, which we do not have, and that information is critical in gathering information. ANY information that is not shared by the Americans with us, can only end up being detrimental to our national security and our soldiers fighting abroad.
So they've got a satellite that we use,which means we have to let them bully us into doing what they want,remember if it wasn't for America,we wouldn't be sending our troops to Afghan or Iraq in the first place...like i said...they need us more than we need them!!
we..all know the saying....
"you don't get something..for nothing "
well...I have no idea if a deal was done.... but if the release of a man that it seems has less than 8 weeks to live, benifits this country..then i think we have done a decent deal.
Purely on a humanitian level, I think the release of a man to allow him to die with his family, is not such a bad thing. Now I know peope will say, he never allowed the people he killed the same compassion. True...but that why we are better than his sort.. we do have compassion.
"you don't get something..for nothing "
well...I have no idea if a deal was done.... but if the release of a man that it seems has less than 8 weeks to live, benifits this country..then i think we have done a decent deal.
Purely on a humanitian level, I think the release of a man to allow him to die with his family, is not such a bad thing. Now I know peope will say, he never allowed the people he killed the same compassion. True...but that why we are better than his sort.. we do have compassion.
Quote by Mr-Powers
Mercy???
It was not done for mercy or compassion, it was done purely and simply for oil.
I can only imagine how the family of those killed must be feeling to be let down so badly, by politicians again.
The " special " relationship we have with the USA, of which we need for security purposes, is threatened because of a few barrels of oil.
Self gratification is what I call it, certainly never a mercy mission......shame on them.....AGAIN.
Security Purposes??
I think they need us more than we need them!
On what do you base that?
The Americans rightly are right to be pissed off with the release of this bloke.
As the plane came down in Scotland it was covered by Scottish law, hence why he was tried there and sent to prison there but.....had the Yanks have been able to try him in the USA, he would have died in prison which I think under those circumstances would have been the correct course of action.
Remember that the Americans share very sophisticated satellite surveylane methods with us, which we do not have, and that information is critical in gathering information. ANY information that is not shared by the Americans with us, can only end up being detrimental to our national security and our soldiers fighting abroad.
So they've got a satellite that we use,which means we have to let them bully us into doing what they want,remember if it wasn't for America,we wouldn't be sending our troops to Afghan or Iraq in the first place...like i said...they need us more than we need them!!
If it was not for the Americans in the second world war, we would not be enjoying the things we so casually take for granted now.
How short memories some people have.
Hmmm... The American's are keen to profligate the idea that they saved Western civilisation in the second World War, and while I genuinely give immense thanks for their help in ridding the world of an evil let's keep it in perspective Mr K. They turned up after the battle in Europe had already been turned against the Germans and only because of the attack on Pearl Harbour had necessetated action.
They had been furtively helping before then through supplies, loans etc, but in no way could this be considered fighting alongside us against the Nazi threat.
If you want to know who probably saved "us" and Western civilisation, go to St Petersburg and look at how many Russian's gave their life defending their homeland and give thanks for their horrifically cold winters. That and the fortitude of nations who had stood up to the Nazi threat since 1938 deserve most thanks.
That's not to discredit the sacrifice many American servicemen&woman made during that horrific period for which we should all be thankful, but simply trying to put into perspective that without good old Uncle Sam we'd be speaking Bavarian and wearing lederhosen. They did indeed help a great deal in the latter stages of the war, but they didn't "save us" by any means.
They had been furtively helping before then through supplies, loans etc, but in no way could this be considered fighting alongside us against the Nazi threat.
If you want to know who probably saved "us" and Western civilisation, go to St Petersburg and look at how many Russian's gave their life defending their homeland and give thanks for their horrifically cold winters. That and the fortitude of nations who had stood up to the Nazi threat since 1938 deserve most thanks.
That's not to discredit the sacrifice many American servicemen&woman made during that horrific period for which we should all be thankful, but simply trying to put into perspective that without good old Uncle Sam we'd be speaking Bavarian and wearing lederhosen. They did indeed help a great deal in the latter stages of the war, but they didn't "save us" by any means.
Quote by Resonance
Hmmm... The American's are keen to profligate the idea that they saved Western civilisation in the second World War, and while I genuinely give immense thanks for their help in ridding the world of an evil let's keep it in perspective Mr K. They turned up after the battle in Europe had already been turned against the Germans and only because of the attack on Pearl Harbour had necessetated action.
They had been furtively helping before then through supplies, loans etc, but in no way could this be considered fighting alongside us against the Nazi threat.
If you want to know who probably saved "us" and Western civilisation, go to St Petersburg and look at how many Russian's gave their life defending their homeland and give thanks for their horrifically cold winters. That and the fortitude of nations who had stood up to the Nazi threat since 1938 deserve most thanks.
That's not to discredit the sacrifice many American servicemen&woman made during that horrific period for which we should all be thankful, but simply trying to put into perspective that without good old Uncle Sam we'd be speaking Bavarian and wearing lederhosen. They did indeed help a great deal in the latter stages of the war, but they didn't "save us" by any means.
What he said...think you've watched to many Hollywood war movies Kent.
With the Original Post in mind, I'd agree with DeanCannock. I don't think an "eye for an eye" is the sign of a civilised society. It is what fuels the neverending wars and conflicts all over the globe. It is compassion that marks a society above the animals and if that is a weakness, then I'm happy to be considered so.
Don't mistake that for cowardice, the decision that was made (to release him) was courageous for those very reasons.
It does make me laugh though, for supposedly "christian" nations, we do seem to get so annoyed at the prospect of actually having to put into practice the very tenets of the religion that so many profoundly claim as leading their lives by. It seems mercy and forgiveness is available, but only to those selected for it eh? Forgive OUR sins, but not THEIRS eh?
Just because someone does something to you or your country that is heinous and evil, does not give you the right to do something similar in return. Indeed that is just going to exacerbate the problem. Want any evidence, check out the Histories of Israel & Palestine, Ireland, Spain just for starters.
If the accused did perpetrate the bombing of Lockerbie, then I hope he spends his last days in pain and misery and will take that to his grave. However keeping him holed up so he can die alone and afraid because we feel it is justified through some heightened sense of wrongdoing, is, simply, barbaric. It isn't as if he was going home to party for months and years on end. He's going there to die a painful and miserable death, which he will do very shortly and if he did commit the atrocity, good riddance.
To keep him in Scotland and not afford him an ounce of compassion would certainly have had the "eye for an eye" crowd delighted and laughing with glee, which to me is not symptomatic of a healthy society. A barbarian one perhaps, not as barbaric as blowing up a plane with innocent people on I admit, but barbaric all the same.
Gandhi said "you must be the change you want to see in the world." In these supposedly far more enlightened times, that to me makes more sense than anything any of these politicians, terrorists and lawmakers have ever said.
Don't mistake that for cowardice, the decision that was made (to release him) was courageous for those very reasons.
It does make me laugh though, for supposedly "christian" nations, we do seem to get so annoyed at the prospect of actually having to put into practice the very tenets of the religion that so many profoundly claim as leading their lives by. It seems mercy and forgiveness is available, but only to those selected for it eh? Forgive OUR sins, but not THEIRS eh?
Just because someone does something to you or your country that is heinous and evil, does not give you the right to do something similar in return. Indeed that is just going to exacerbate the problem. Want any evidence, check out the Histories of Israel & Palestine, Ireland, Spain just for starters.
If the accused did perpetrate the bombing of Lockerbie, then I hope he spends his last days in pain and misery and will take that to his grave. However keeping him holed up so he can die alone and afraid because we feel it is justified through some heightened sense of wrongdoing, is, simply, barbaric. It isn't as if he was going home to party for months and years on end. He's going there to die a painful and miserable death, which he will do very shortly and if he did commit the atrocity, good riddance.
To keep him in Scotland and not afford him an ounce of compassion would certainly have had the "eye for an eye" crowd delighted and laughing with glee, which to me is not symptomatic of a healthy society. A barbarian one perhaps, not as barbaric as blowing up a plane with innocent people on I admit, but barbaric all the same.
Gandhi said "you must be the change you want to see in the world." In these supposedly far more enlightened times, that to me makes more sense than anything any of these politicians, terrorists and lawmakers have ever said.
Sex God
Gandhi said "you must be the change you want to see in the world."In these supposedly far more enlightened times, that to me makes more sense than anything any of these politicians, terrorists and lawmakers have ever said.[/quote
I just wanted to say that the above is one of my most favourite quotes - deceptively simple and yet a challenge to us all.
I just wanted to say that the above is one of my most favourite quotes - deceptively simple and yet a challenge to us all.
Quote by Mr-Powers
Hmmm... The American's are keen to profligate the idea that they saved Western civilisation in the second World War, and while I genuinely give immense thanks for their help in ridding the world of an evil let's keep it in perspective Mr K. They turned up after the battle in Europe had already been turned against the Germans and only because of the attack on Pearl Harbour had necessetated action.
They had been furtively helping before then through supplies, loans etc, but in no way could this be considered fighting alongside us against the Nazi threat.
If you want to know who probably saved "us" and Western civilisation, go to St Petersburg and look at how many Russian's gave their life defending their homeland and give thanks for their horrifically cold winters. That and the fortitude of nations who had stood up to the Nazi threat since 1938 deserve most thanks.
That's not to discredit the sacrifice many American servicemen&woman made during that horrific period for which we should all be thankful, but simply trying to put into perspective that without good old Uncle Sam we'd be speaking Bavarian and wearing lederhosen. They did indeed help a great deal in the latter stages of the war, but they didn't "save us" by any means.
What he said...think you've watched to many Hollywood war movies Kent.
I do not watch Hollywood war movies, only look at facts.
A lot of historians agree that without the Americans help, it would have been much harder to win the war, than it was with the Americans coming in.....fact.
We will never know if we would or would not have won the war without the Americans coming in,. but just in case we could have lost, I am glad they did come in and ended up losing many people themselves. That has nothing to do with Hollywood movies....fact.
As our friends across the pond, I can understand their anger at releasing this man who let's be honest killed mainly Americans on that flight.
I am not a huge lover of the yanks, but I feel we do owe them many things, and can only have a detrimental effect on us, if we have a falling out over this. Our national security is worth a million times more, than some murderer from Gadaffi's regime.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
As our friends across the pond, I can understand their anger at releasing this man who let's be honest killed mainly Americans on that flight.
As has been stated earlier, many people, including some people who lost family on the flight, believe Megrahi was offered as a scapegoat as yet another spoke in the wheel of oil corruption.
I was watching a documentary last night, (102 minutes that changed the world) comprising of various footage shot in NY as the attacks took place. One section stood out amongst all the mayhem and destruction, several shots of people whose first reaction was to go to war, invade somewhere and blow it up. I know it was a very emotionally charged moment but this does seem to be something bred into the american psychie 'if something happens lets bomb it off the face of the planet' without checking the true facts or not distorting them for their own agenda. Maybe this attitude could account to some degree for the way they're perceived and treated.
If they're so determined to see justice correctly applied, how can they explain Guantanamo or their insistance to extradite Gary McKinnon, the brit (diagnosed with autism) who hacked into their computer systems, surely he should be tried in the UK where the crime took place. A little less throwing round of their weight may go a long way to improving their image
Quote by kentswingers777
Hmmm... The American's are keen to profligate the idea that they saved Western civilisation in the second World War, and while I genuinely give immense thanks for their help in ridding the world of an evil let's keep it in perspective Mr K. They turned up after the battle in Europe had already been turned against the Germans and only because of the attack on Pearl Harbour had necessetated action.
They had been furtively helping before then through supplies, loans etc, but in no way could this be considered fighting alongside us against the Nazi threat.
If you want to know who probably saved "us" and Western civilisation, go to St Petersburg and look at how many Russian's gave their life defending their homeland and give thanks for their horrifically cold winters. That and the fortitude of nations who had stood up to the Nazi threat since 1938 deserve most thanks.
That's not to discredit the sacrifice many American servicemen&woman made during that horrific period for which we should all be thankful, but simply trying to put into perspective that without good old Uncle Sam we'd be speaking Bavarian and wearing lederhosen. They did indeed help a great deal in the latter stages of the war, but they didn't "save us" by any means.
What he said...think you've watched to many Hollywood war movies Kent.
I do not watch Hollywood war movies, only look at facts.
A lot of historians agree that without the Americans help, it would have been much harder to win the war, than it was with the Americans coming in.....fact.
We will never know if we would or would not have won the war without the Americans coming in,. but just in case we could have lost, I am glad they did come in and ended up losing many people themselves. That has nothing to do with Hollywood movies....fact.
As our friends across the pond, I can understand their anger at releasing this man who let's be honest killed mainly Americans on that flight.
I'm not disputing the fact the Americans made a big impact by joining in the war,which was only because of the bombing of Pearl Harbour by the way,upto that point they were quite happy just sitting back and profitering from the war in Europe...i do believe we've just finally settled that one 70 years on...50 million a year i think it was...what gets my goat up is people who assume the war would not have been won without the Americans,The British did just fine in Africa without the Americans,we didn't have to worry about the Italians and the Russians were doing fine even with heavy casuaties...the war would have taken longer but it would have been won eventually...yes the Americans were a great help even though they were charging for their services...but the Russians made far more sacrifices...Germany lost the moment they stitched up Russia.
Sex God
If, as has been suggested the hand of Gordon Brown is behind the release of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi (I copied and pasted it)Can I be the first to thank him on behalf of all British and especially Scottish tax-payers, for saving us all the cost of the appeal that Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi was almost certain to have won.
Sex God
On the subject of the U.S. contribution to WW2 everyone knows that without the brave efforts of American submariners we'd never have cracked the enigma code and won the war.....well done uncle sam
while the media harps on about a libyan being released and the american administration complaining for the sake of appearances to its own public and the perpetuated lie that the libyans were involved in the lockerbie bombing, everyone has their "terrorist" convicted bomber. meanwhile, for the purposes of fighting the "war on terror", i say "war of terror", pakistan, afghanistan and iraq are bombed everyday. if the media holds your attention, look to the side, the slight of hand. something else must be about to happen or is happening. to know who carried out a bombing or an atrocity, alway's ask yourself this fundamental question..."in who's interests does it serve" MOTIVE ! and it certainly was'nt libya but it did serve the interests of other's at that time !
Sex God
Quote by gulsonroad30664
alway's ask yourself this fundamental question..."in who's interests does it serve" MOTIVE ! and it certainly was'nt libya but it did serve the interests of other's at that time !
It could very well have been Libya, the question should be was it offically sanctioned as a response to the Americans bombing Tripoli a couple of years earlier and imposing sanctions on them?
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
On the subject of the U.S. contribution to WW2 everyone knows that without the brave efforts of American submariners we'd never have cracked the enigma code and won the war.....well done uncle sam
They say that history is only ever written by the winners and here we have a classic example of why we should retain a degree of objective scepticism about what we see and hear in the media.
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
On the subject of the U.S. contribution to WW2 everyone knows that without the brave efforts of American submariners we'd never have cracked the enigma code and won the war.....well done uncle sam
Ha ha ha ha ha! That was either an almost imperceptible delightfully light touch with the irony there Staggers, or it was positively dripping with sarcasm, I've yet to decide, but :thumbup:
;)
N x x x ;)
Quote by neilinleeds
On the subject of the U.S. contribution to WW2 everyone knows that without the brave efforts of American submariners we'd never have cracked the enigma code and won the war.....well done uncle sam
Ha ha ha ha ha! That was either an almost imperceptible delightfully light touch with the irony there Staggers, or it was positively dripping with sarcasm, I've yet to decide, but :thumbup:
;)
N x x x ;)
lol
Must admit, I did find it highly amusing too!
I'm waiting for the British equivalent, when you see Geoffrey, Bungle and Zippy hailed for their part in the Apollo 11 moon landing. I'd pay to see that and it is about as factually accurate.
