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Military intervention in Libya

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Do you support military intervention in Libya?

Rogue-trader, you can't be talking about the same thing, can you, cos the source you quoted was referring to casualties of the war in general, including combatants on both sides and their victims, whereas Gulson claimed 50-55000 civilian casualties were caused by NATO bombing alone. Not sure where he gets that from cos official Libyan sources apparently put the figure at around about 1100! Perhaps he's misunderstood the stats? confused
N x x x ;)
So, tell me how this works.
I have 'paid my stamp' since beginning work at the age of 17 but for the past 4 years have not paid anything into the UK system since we have been living in France.
A couple of weeks ago, I applied to the UK NHS for an S1 card in order to obtain treatment in France (when required) as an expat only to be told that, since I have not lived in the UK for over 18 months, I have lost my entitlement to have treatment in France paid for by the UK NHS. Moreover, if I were to return to the UK for any treatment, I would have to pay!
I then see the following on SkyNews:-

How come someone who has never contributed to the UK NHS system or paid tax in the UK can be given free treatment but a person born in the UK still paying UK tax on investments is denied the privilege?
GnV...you have to get some new glasses mate.....its not free...read 7th paragraph..
"The Libyan government is paying for his treatment here, as well as for treatment for the other patients who will come over."
its not free !!!
Quote by deancannock
GnV...you have to get some new glasses mate.....its not free...read 7th paragraph..
"The Libyan government is paying for his treatment here, as well as for treatment for the other patients who will come over."
its not free !!!

Aye.. but who's giving them the money in the first place?
Quote by GnV
Don't hold your breath Dave, you're too valuable!

Thank feck I didn't hold me breath G lol
Now...........can someone tell me if WWIII started and I missed it?
Dave_Notts
well...Ghadaffi is finally found and murdered !! Must admit, I am very much ill at ease, with the way it has all ended. Ghadaffi was a tyrant and indeed issued orders that killed thousands. However watching the video of him being dragged through the street, clearly alive, and then haveing a gun pressed against his head....and then to see him in a pool of blood dead, leaves a stale taste in my mouth. I know this man was responsable for the killing of many peoples relatives, but I still think in the end he was defenceless and murdered !! and murder is a crime. I am glad Libya is free and hopefully will move towards democracy, but despite the great wealth of oil reserves it has, unemployment it is said runs at over 60%. Young men now on the streets with, no enemy to shoot at, but still with guns and bullets in their hands. Dangerous cocktail I fear.
once again the americans get there man. they may not have fired the bullet that killed him but that bullet had americas name on it.
the west thrive on the word democracy yet a baying mob of thugs, no doubt the same sort of thugs that gadaffi used, dragged him through the street and then shot him dead in cold blood.
cameron and obama stand in there own countries shouting how wonderful the world will be it? if gadaffi of been put on trial and found guilty and then possibly hung then at leest some sort of democratic justice would have taken place, as it was it was death in cold blood by a mob. the same mob that will now be in charge in Libya.
in 2009 it was gordon brown and in 2004 it was tony blair pictured shaking hands with gadaffi. both british prime ministers of recent yeers. yet a couple of yeers later the british along with the police of the world the americans give " aid " to libya in flying jets in there air space to kill gadaffi supporters and to cleer the way for the capture of gadaffi. the same man that two of our recent pm's shook hands with.
sorry the whole thing is typical of america, no wonder it is so hated around the world.
so mr cameron was the execution of gadaffi democratic? thought not.
i would hope that libya will be better off though i doubt it will be. those same thugs and monsters on the streets will soon be running things over there and the west can rub there hands together and pat each other on there backs and say job well done.
we shall see in time. democracy? no cold bloodied murder in my book and i suspect that the americans and the British do not give a damn. two wrongs make a right now do they?
i sometimes wonder if these so called tyrants such as gadaffi and sadam are made worse by american propaganda? a lot of the uprises of late started on networking sites. are we to beleeve that the west never stoked the fires of that at all? i think they were first in line.
if we are talking tyrants cameron and obama, shall we see robert mugabi removed from power? another man who aparently has murdered thousands of peeple in africa. no oil there though.
propaganda can be a very dangerous tool.
Quote by starlightcouple
i sometimes wonder if these so called tyrants such as gadaffi and sadam are made worse by american propaganda?
propaganda can be a very dangerous tool.

:thumbup:
It is wonderful to see such piece and harmony since the removal of Sadam
Quote by deancannock
well...Ghadaffi is finally found and murdered !! Must admit, I am very much ill at ease, with the way it has all ended. Ghadaffi was a tyrant and indeed issued orders that killed thousands. However watching the video of him being dragged through the street, clearly alive, and then haveing a gun pressed against his head....and then to see him in a pool of blood dead, leaves a stale taste in my mouth. I know this man was responsable for the killing of many peoples relatives, but I still think in the end he was defenceless and murdered !! and murder is a crime. I am glad Libya is free and hopefully will move towards democracy, but despite the great wealth of oil reserves it has, unemployment it is said runs at over 60%. Young men now on the streets with, no enemy to shoot at, but still with guns and bullets in their hands. Dangerous cocktail I fear.

You are quite correct Dean, for those in the new government that were preaching democracy, they have now failed at the very first hurdle!
However, from my personal view, I feel very little for him, live by the sword, die by it!
Quote by Bluefish2009
You are quite correct Dean, for those in the new government that were preaching democracy, they have now failed at the very first hurdle!
However, from my personal view, I feel very little for him, live by the sword, die by it!

No Blue. What seperates those who paraded him round open to abuse from all sides, pulled the trigger in what's clearly a cold-bloodied execution from Gadaffi in that case, and then further abused his still warm corpse in the streets? Stray bullets from cross-fire somehow managed to find a way into an ambulance intersecting precisely with a point on his temple consistent with short-range execution in a way that left everyone else with nary a scratch to show for it? Don't buy it. What moral justification do they claim for themselves that Gadaffi's supporters couldn't equally claim for themselves? He's a tyrant, this is how we deal with tyrants? Where was the tyranny coming from there. Not a good start, though fore-seeable.
N x x x ;)
Interestingly, the NTC have been back-pedalling like fury by saying that they did not issue an order for Gadaffi to be killed.
Hmmm... short memories; wasn't it the very same NTC who offered a $M reward for Gaddafi dead or alive recently?
Who will collect?
And then they ask Saif to give himself up to face 'justice'! Given the treatment dished out to his father how on earth can they expect him to have any faith in the claim that he will be treated well?
Right now, Cameron and Sarkozy must be feeling decidedly uncomfortable at the way Gaddafi senior was treated at the hand of nothing more than just an armed mob - armed as they were by the NATO alliance.
Gaddafi said himself at the start of this conflict that he could see no reason to hand over power to armed thugs roaming the streets - it wouldn't happen in the west and it wouldn't happen in Libya. But that is now the legacy. There is no political structure in Libya. It is a mix of rag tag and bobtail tribes who will now fight on to claim the prize. They are well armed - courtesy of the great British and French public (amongst others) and asking them to lay down their arms now in the interests of democracy will create great amusement.
It has been said many times before that the only way to negotiate with an Arab, is with your foot on his throat!
I fear the west will now have to visit the cobblers tout de suite.
Quote by Lizaleanrob
Live by the sword etc etc dunno

Despite what he was accused of (condoned by the west for over 40 years, no less) to murder a wounded unarmed old man in the street under mob rule is barbaric and inexcusable.
Quote by GnV
Live by the sword etc etc dunno

Despite what he was accused of (condoned by the west for over 40 years, no less) to murder a wounded unarmed old man in the street under mob rule is barbaric and inexcusable.
for me mr gnv that is 100% correct.
but the politicians will have us all beleeve that everything is lovely and rosy in Iraq now. that soon Afghanistan will be running as well as Germany on a good day, and now they will soon be saying that libya is a thriving comunity.
i think the west sometimes get what the west deserves.
the americans are hated through out the world and the arabs detest the yanks. israel was given to the jews by the west when they had no right to give away land that was not theres to start with. northern ireland was taken by the british when it was not britains to take.
the west at times stink in there deplomacy and certainly the americans bring there own down falls. pearl harbour and 9/11 some would say were brought about by there meddling and interfering in the middle east. the same for britain to in 7/7. spain has also tasted it.
the middle east is a powder keg of problems and i think that now in libya no matter what the fucking lying politicians tell us it will be no better than it was. yes gadaffi is now gone, murdered in cold blood just as the west hoped he would be to save the minefield of problems if he was captured alive. now the country is being run by murderers and peeple no better than what they had before.
i wonder because of this when the next murderous act will take place in the west, because i am sure it will come very soon. keep out of other peeples problems unless you want to get bitten by the hand that you think you are trying to help.
american propaganda has killed millions of peeple and they are just as guilty of murder as the very person who pulled the trigger against gadafis head.
are obama and bush and blair and brown and cameron, any different? i think not the only difference is that they do what they do hiding behind a suit and tie, and not army combats and false medals!!
i did not meen the peeple deserved there 9/11s or 7/7s only that the politicians had brought about those things by there intefering and involvemnet in issues that are not theres to get involved in.
maybe the politicians in america and the uk should be brought to task for there own war crimes. tony blair was guilty of lying about iraqs so called weapons and how many thousands have been killed since the invasion? but without saddam and gudafi? are we sure things are better or will be better or will the rest of the peeple there just take the wealth for themselves and then deal with the west for there guns?
only a few will benefit the rest will be just the same. poor and with nothing.
Quote by starlightcouple
i wonder because of this when the next murderous act will take place in the west, because i am sure it will come very soon. keep out of other peeples problems unless you want to get bitten by the hand that you think you are trying to help.

Syria dunno
Quote by neilinleeds
You are quite correct Dean, for those in the new government that were preaching democracy, they have now failed at the very first hurdle!
However, from my personal view, I feel very little for him, live by the sword, die by it!

No Blue. What seperates those who paraded him round open to abuse from all sides, pulled the trigger in what's clearly a cold-bloodied execution from Gadaffi in that case, and then further abused his still warm corpse in the streets? Stray bullets from cross-fire somehow managed to find a way into an ambulance intersecting precisely with a point on his temple consistent with short-range execution in a way that left everyone else with nary a scratch to show for it? Don't buy it. What moral justification do they claim for themselves that Gadaffi's supporters couldn't equally claim for themselves? He's a tyrant, this is how we deal with tyrants? Where was the tyranny coming from there. Not a good start, though fore-seeable.
N x x x ;)
Did you think that they were to become sivilised people overnight
Quote by GnV
Live by the sword etc etc dunno

Despite what he was accused of (condoned by the west for over 40 years, no less) to murder a wounded unarmed old man in the street under mob rule is barbaric and inexcusable.
To be honest G the man was a monster ,the lockabie bomb ,Yvonne Fletcher, and the sale of Semtex and arms to the IRA like Saddam Hussein and bin laden he meet with a death fitting the life he lived
and don't get me wrong it's not just the so called black hats that deserve to die such an undignified death
here was a man whose arrogance kept him in Libya when he was offered sanctuary elsewhere how the hell did he think it was going to end :dunno:
nice to see your veiws change neil from the pack frenzy explanations of the rioting thread
banghead:banghead:
Quote by GnV
i wonder because of this when the next murderous act will take place in the west, because i am sure it will come very soon. keep out of other peeples problems unless you want to get bitten by the hand that you think you are trying to help.

Syria dunno
Syria has been left alone too long, if there is Western intervention, the first question from a lot of people would be "Why now?"
I think it will be interesting to see what is happening with Turkey. They are a member of NATO, an one of the United States allie's, and in recent days have been mounting operations against militants from a terrorist group known as PKK, these operations have even included going across the border into Iraq.
Quote by essex34m
i wonder because of this when the next murderous act will take place in the west, because i am sure it will come very soon. keep out of other peeples problems unless you want to get bitten by the hand that you think you are trying to help.

Syria dunno
Syria has been left alone too long, if there is Western intervention, the first question from a lot of people would be "Why now?"
I think it will be interesting to see what is happening with Turkey. They are a member of NATO, an one of the United States allie's, and in recent days have been mounting operations against militants from a terrorist group known as PKK, these operations have even included going across the border into Iraq.
They left Libya alone for 40 odd years :lol2:
Quote by GnV
They left Libya alone for 40 odd years :lol2:

What I meant was, things in Syria kicked off weeks/months ago, nothing has been done, so why Libya and not Syria?
Quote by essex34m
What I meant was, things in Syria kicked off weeks/months ago, nothing has been done, so why Libya and not Syria?

Bashar Al-Asad was educated in the UK I think and although there are complaints of atrocities in the here and now uprisings in Syria, there are no old scores to settle such as Lockerbie, Ireland and WPC Fletcher (to name a few) that I can immediately recall anyway.
Oh yes, and Libya has oil.
Other than that essex, dunno
the west and america in particular will now be looking just like Sauron in lord of the rings. looking and seeking wherever they go.
they will now be looking at what syria? iran? korea?
america will never stop until it has control of everything.

you better beleeve it. :twisted: