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minium of five years?
Quote by kentswingers777
I'm avoiding quoting - it's getting a bit long on here.
I am all for giving violent offenders treatment, counselling and whatever else is needed to prevent them coming out and offending again. Not for their sake - but for mine and my family's. Since so many offenders are let out far too early - they should be taught not to offend any more.
But, these are not a couple of drug addicta, desparate for a fix and mugging someone to get it. They tortured the poor lads. TORTURED for HOURS. Not a quick bash, it dragged on and on. And when they got bored and tired they wandered off. Leaving one of the boys blinded and unable to move begging his friend to leave him to die - HE WAS 9 FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!!! And he was waiting to DIE! I remember when my son was 9 and upset when he fell out with his friend. This horror breaks my heart.
No these scum do not deserve to breathe the same air as my child or yours. Maybe they were damaged by their upbringing, buy non-existant parenting. I don't care - they must never, ever be allowed to practice being human on the rest of the population. They might be rehaibilitated, eventually. Would any of us want them living next door to our kids?
Their basic human rights should be catered for (since apparently we can't bring back capital punishment) - food, shelter, healthcare and education, and especially psychiatry to attempt to fix them. But as to letting them out - it would be an impossible risk.
Their 'parents'? I despair. Sterilise certainly. But what about their influence on other youngsters? Do they have nieces or nephews they are infecting with their appaling behaviour.
We're not talking about people who go to the supermarket in dirty shell suits here - it seems they (mother only?) destroyed their sons. What punishment/prevention is appropriate for that?
The answer for the future? I don't know - but there must be room for discussion about requiring every prospective parent (ma and pa) to have to pass at least a basic competency test before they can go ahead. I'm not talking exams or even GCSE's. But basic stuff. Stuff like not feeding your kids illegal drugs, looking after them, teaching them right from wrong. And if a parent doesn't know right from wrong what the hell are they doing bringing up kids.
MM yes lets make a list of who should be allowed to parent,
obviously abusers sterilised,
drug addict
alcoholics
ppl with learning disabilities,well often abuse is as a result of a low iq( again ref mary bell)
mixed race families have a higher incidence of crime
black families have higher incidence of mental illness
mixed race families have a higher incidence of crime
males commit more crimes
poor commit more crimes
I know,only people like me should be allowed to parent
oh hang on I'm sexually deviant
OK so only white middle class straight families should be allowed to parent
You know i think that was tried one time in the 30s,.....not sure that's the end point you were aiming at foxy
Talk about take things to such silly extremes!
All of the above can also be fantastic parents, but agree with the first one.
Where can you get the figures for the rubbish that you are stating above?
" mixed race families have a higher incidence of crime " or " mixed race families have a higher incidence of crime "
Can you actually back those up at all?
People just cannot see that the Liberal approach over the last ten years of this Lefty Governemnt, have created this!
As I have already stated and will continue to state....these families usually come from the same sort of backgrounds.
They never seem to work and have not worked for years....benefit dependant even though it seems they are perfectly capable of working. Drink and drugs play a huge role.
The whole welfare system needs to be overhauled and to get these people into work, to pay their way. Maybe then they would develop a bit of self esteem, and with self esteem maybe to become better parents.
This Government in particular have created a social divide, and therefore with no responsibilty or boundaries now in so many homes, is it any wonder kids have no respect for anyone or anything....ask any teacher the kind of kids they have to deal with on a daily basis, and then look at the parents of those kids.
In this particular case and in the case of baby P, the investigation has been a whitewash to save the Government's blushes...
The Government are refusing to publish the full report but rather use the Labour secretive summary. Just like in the baby P case this Government want to suppress the report...I wonder why.
Surely the aim of publishing a full report would be to root out weak, incompetent and complacent public officials and to try and ensure better safety for children in care.
The totally out of touch schools secretary Mr Ed Balls ( I wish he had some ),summed uip Labours delusion yesterday by insisting that publishing the full report would not be supported by " anyone ". I would say most people would believe the opposite here.
Covering up people's mistakes is something that angers people, and if they had nothing to hide they would publish it.
Yes the system has helped to create people like this but the majority of parents fall under that same system and do not abuse it, and continue to be great parents.
There are without doubt people out there who should never have had kids, because they are either incapable of bringing them up properly, or are just plain selfish.
Publish the report the Tories have said, and if they get into power ( which they will ) they have said they will publish both the baby P report and this report in FULL. Then maybe we will find out for sure where the real blame lies.
Bad parents who are terrible examples to kids, and that equates to shocking childrens behavour and attitudes in dreadful cases like this.
Also I am tired of hearing that old thing " cannot be named for legal reasons ". What the heck does that mean, or is it that they deem they are too young to be named?
Name and shame them...it may well make them think twice.
So this liberal lefty government caused this.
What or who caused Mary Bell?
Anyone remember who was in power for the 10 years before James Bulger was killed? Or the ten years before Hindley and Brady?
" So this liberal lefty government caused this.
What or who caused Mary Bell?
Anyone remember who was in power for the 10 years before James Bulger was killed? Or the ten years before Hindley and Brady "?
The social and family decline I believe HAS been caused by this Government.
Mary Bell was 1968 ... PM was Harold Wilson
James Bulger was 1993 .... PM was John Major
The Moors murders were between 1963-1965...PM's were Lord Home and Harold Wilson.
The Moors murders were unheard of in their time, hence why they were never released even after what was it for Hindley...30 years? Brady is still incarcerated.
Mary Bell was also an exceptional case at that time.
James Bulger was also an exceptional crime, which the likes of had never been heard of before.
You name three cases over how many years? And to be honest we are talking about childrens crimes and not those carried out against children I thought.
If you are trying to say that crimes carried out by children are just as bad in the 60's or 70's as they are now, then have to get me Google hat on...it won't take long.
Children now are more aggressive now, parents are worse now with showing any sort of responsibility towards their kids.
You use an example above of the Moors murders who were adults who did terrible crimes,in the last 12 months we have heard of many disgusting things that adults have done to kids, and in this thread it is not a good example.
Luckily enough these crimes carried out by children on children are rare, but childrens aggression is far worse now than it has ever been.
The social decline and the family breakdown ( mainly attributed to this Government )is a major factor in childrens lack of social skills, and parents inability to be proper parents that set out boundaries and to show responsiblities.
Kids are kids at the end of the day, and are a direct result of the social skills they learn from their parents and teachers. Teachers can only educate them...parents are supposed to educate them into what is right or wrong, and not to feed them drugs and drink, and to watch violent films.
With parents like these kids had, they never stood a chance....yes I firmly believe that this Government in particular ARE responsible for the lack of parenting skills that ultimatly lead to reckless and feral kids.
What or who caused Mary Bell?
Anyone remember who was in power for the 10 years before James Bulger was killed? Or the ten years before Hindley and Brady "?
The social and family decline I believe HAS been caused by this Government.
Mary Bell was 1968 ... PM was Harold Wilson
James Bulger was 1993 .... PM was John Major
The Moors murders were between 1963-1965...PM's were Lord Home and Harold Wilson.
The Moors murders were unheard of in their time, hence why they were never released even after what was it for Hindley...30 years? Brady is still incarcerated.
Mary Bell was also an exceptional case at that time.
James Bulger was also an exceptional crime, which the likes of had never been heard of before.
You name three cases over how many years? And to be honest we are talking about childrens crimes and not those carried out against children I thought.
If you are trying to say that crimes carried out by children are just as bad in the 60's or 70's as they are now, then have to get me Google hat on...it won't take long.
Children now are more aggressive now, parents are worse now with showing any sort of responsibility towards their kids.
You use an example above of the Moors murders who were adults who did terrible crimes,in the last 12 months we have heard of many disgusting things that adults have done to kids, and in this thread it is not a good example.
Luckily enough these crimes carried out by children on children are rare, but childrens aggression is far worse now than it has ever been.
The social decline and the family breakdown ( mainly attributed to this Government )is a major factor in childrens lack of social skills, and parents inability to be proper parents that set out boundaries and to show responsiblities.
Kids are kids at the end of the day, and are a direct result of the social skills they learn from their parents and teachers. Teachers can only educate them...parents are supposed to educate them into what is right or wrong, and not to feed them drugs and drink, and to watch violent films.
With parents like these kids had, they never stood a chance....yes I firmly believe that this Government in particular ARE responsible for the lack of parenting skills that ultimatly lead to reckless and feral kids.
Nice to see you can't bring yourself to answer the question that arises from your claims. Was it Churchill's name you diodn't want to tar as potentially liberal lefty, or Thatcher?
The Moors murders were unusual, but hardly unprecedented, and involved the participation, in some small way, of a juvenile (David Smith was under age, and turned QE).
Here's a great quote from an article by Johann Hari;
In 1861, a leader in The Times commented on the trial of two eight year old boys in Stockport who had tortured and killed a toddler. It said: “Children of that age cannot be held legally accountable in the same way as adults. It is absurd and monstrous that these two children have been treated like murderers.” Isn’t it time we progressed to 1862?
Here's the full article -
Enjoy...
The Moors murders were unusual, but hardly unprecedented, and involved the participation, in some small way, of a juvenile (David Smith was under age, and turned QE).
Here's a great quote from an article by Johann Hari;
In 1861, a leader in The Times commented on the trial of two eight year old boys in Stockport who had tortured and killed a toddler. It said: “Children of that age cannot be held legally accountable in the same way as adults. It is absurd and monstrous that these two children have been treated like murderers.” Isn’t it time we progressed to 1862?
Here's the full article -
Enjoy...
Quote by kentswingers777
" So this liberal lefty government caused this.
What or who caused Mary Bell?
Anyone remember who was in power for the 10 years before James Bulger was killed? Or the ten years before Hindley and Brady "?
The social and family decline I believe HAS been caused by this Government.
Mary Bell was 1968 ... PM was Harold Wilson
James Bulger was 1993 .... PM was John Major
The Moors murders were between 1963-1965...PM's were Lord Home and Harold Wilson.
The Moors murders were unheard of in their time, hence why they were never released even after what was it for Hindley...30 years? Brady is still incarcerated.
Mary Bell was also an exceptional case at that time.
James Bulger was also an exceptional crime, which the likes of had never been heard of before.
You name three cases over how many years? And to be honest we are talking about childrens crimes and not those carried out against children I thought.
If you are trying to say that crimes carried out by children are just as bad in the 60's or 70's as they are now, then have to get me Google hat on...it won't take long.
Children now are more aggressive now, parents are worse now with showing any sort of responsibility towards their kids.
You use an example above of the Moors murders who were adults who did terrible crimes,in the last 12 months we have heard of many disgusting things that adults have done to kids, and in this thread it is not a good example.
Luckily enough these crimes carried out by children on children are rare, but childrens aggression is far worse now than it has ever been.
The social decline and the family breakdown ( mainly attributed to this Government )is a major factor in childrens lack of social skills, and parents inability to be proper parents that set out boundaries and to show responsiblities.
Kids are kids at the end of the day, and are a direct result of the social skills they learn from their parents and teachers. Teachers can only educate them...parents are supposed to educate them into what is right or wrong, and not to feed them drugs and drink, and to watch violent films.
With parents like these kids had, they never stood a chance....yes I firmly believe that this Government in particular ARE responsible for the lack of parenting skills that ultimatly lead to reckless and feral kids.
Well, does Herod count?
LOL
LOL
Quote by Kaznkev
1144
a child is found naked from the waist down,blood smeared over his buttocks,his genitails mutilated
this is nothing new,its simply the knee jerk reaction has changed
away,go on find an older case than that,a jewish boyfriend told me bout william,bet u cant find earlier!
The years 1861 or 1144? wtf?
They were draconian times, medieval where life meant virtually nothing.
I thought British society had moved on a bit from those days.
We are talking about a crime that is so horrific committed by children against children...in 2010!
Or are you saying that peoples attitudes and ways they treat their human counterparts has not changed at all in what 100 or 500 years? That is rubbish and you know it.
We have evolved a tad since 1164 fgs, in our values and the way we treat others.
Still you have your views and thankfully every single person that I know has the same views as me....
Still I suppose someone has to oppose the obvious!
They were draconian times, medieval where life meant virtually nothing.
I thought British society had moved on a bit from those days.
We are talking about a crime that is so horrific committed by children against children...in 2010!
Or are you saying that peoples attitudes and ways they treat their human counterparts has not changed at all in what 100 or 500 years? That is rubbish and you know it.
We have evolved a tad since 1164 fgs, in our values and the way we treat others.
Still you have your views and thankfully every single person that I know has the same views as me....
Still I suppose someone has to oppose the obvious!
Sex God
Just idle curiosity...but when was this government liberal or left-wing? ....I must have been away that day
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Just idle curiosity...but when was this government liberal or left-wing? ....I must have been away that day
:laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove:
Sex God
Quote by Kaznkev
Just wanted to express the views of my 6 yr old,who out of the blue brought up this case over dinner.
mum do you know those boys who strangled other boys,?
yes darling
Are they still in prison?
reassure little un yes they are,
Why did they strangle the boys?
ok hes 6 .....explain some people arent taught right from wrong
thinking from little un
then there not really bad mummy,just no one taught them how to be good,its sad really maybe theyd have been better with a different mummy and daddy
right now im so proud i could burst.
:thumbup::thumbup:
Wonderful. Bet I know who little 'un was thinking about as good examples of Mum and Dad.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
The years 1861 or 1144? wtf?
They were draconian times, medieval where life meant virtually nothing.
I thought British society had moved on a bit from those days.
................
Well we try to, but some sections of society don't want to accept that there may be more than one way of looking at and dealing with a problem.
Say, for the sake of example, incarceration and rehabilitation.
Quote by kentswingers777
The years 1861 or 1144? wtf?
They were draconian times, medieval where life meant virtually nothing.
I thought British society had moved on a bit from those days.
We are talking about a crime that is so horrific committed by children against children...in 2010!
Or are you saying that peoples attitudes and ways they treat their human counterparts has not changed at all in what 100 or 500 years? That is rubbish and you know it.
We have evolved a tad since 1164 fgs, in our values and the way we treat others.
Still you have your views and thankfully every single person that I know has the same views as me....
Still I suppose someone has to oppose the obvious!
Have you ever wondered if the breadth of your circle of friends is restricted by the blinkers you so obviously wear?
Quote by awayman
The years 1861 or 1144? wtf?
They were draconian times, medieval where life meant virtually nothing.
I thought British society had moved on a bit from those days.
We are talking about a crime that is so horrific committed by children against children...in 2010!
Or are you saying that peoples attitudes and ways they treat their human counterparts has not changed at all in what 100 or 500 years? That is rubbish and you know it.
We have evolved a tad since 1164 fgs, in our values and the way we treat others.
Still you have your views and thankfully every single person that I know has the same views as me....
Still I suppose someone has to oppose the obvious!
Have you ever wondered if the breadth of your circle of friends is restricted by the blinkers you so obviously wear?
Of course your not blinkered though are you? Oh no...
Of course you would be screaming REHABILITATION if it was one of your kids attacked like that. Yeah right.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
Just idle curiosity...but when was this government liberal or left-wing? ....I must have been away that day
:laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove:
Cos you see just because they call themselves "the Labour party" doesn't mean they are by default either.....and if they are the "left" god help us if the "right" ever come to power
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
The years 1861 or 1144? wtf?
They were draconian times, medieval where life meant virtually nothing.
I thought British society had moved on a bit from those days.
We are talking about a crime that is so horrific committed by children against children...in 2010!
Or are you saying that peoples attitudes and ways they treat their human counterparts has not changed at all in what 100 or 500 years? That is rubbish and you know it.
We have evolved a tad since 1164 fgs, in our values and the way we treat others.
Still you have your views and thankfully every single person that I know has the same views as me....
Still I suppose someone has to oppose the obvious!
Have you ever wondered if the breadth of your circle of friends is restricted by the blinkers you so obviously wear?
Of course your not blinkered though are you? Oh no...
Of course you would be screaming REHABILITATION if it was one of your kids attacked like that. Yeah right.
Which just goes to show that the best people to dispassionately judge these things are not those related to the victims
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Just idle curiosity...but when was this government liberal or left-wing? ....I must have been away that day
:laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove:
Cos you see just because they call themselves "the Labour party" doesn't mean they are by default either.....and if they are the "left" god help us if the "right" ever come to power
I think it is " new Labour " now....or is it not?
A socialist party that is considered by most to be left wing..Google it..I did but thought I would let others find out if it is true or not.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
Just idle curiosity...but when was this government liberal or left-wing? ....I must have been away that day
:laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove:
Cos you see just because they call themselves "the Labour party" doesn't mean they are by default either.....and if they are the "left" god help us if the "right" ever come to power
I think it is " new Labour " now....or is it not?
A socialist party that is considered by most to be left wing..Google it..I did but thought I would let others find out if it is true or not.
No they dropped the new when they'd used it for long enough to drop the socialism...you do know what socialism is don't you ??
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
No Staggs...I have not got a clue...
ahh king arthurs little vanity project
Quote by kentswingers777
The years 1861 or 1144? wtf?
They were draconian times, medieval where life meant virtually nothing.
I thought British society had moved on a bit from those days.
We are talking about a crime that is so horrific committed by children against children...in 2010!
Or are you saying that peoples attitudes and ways they treat their human counterparts has not changed at all in what 100 or 500 years? That is rubbish and you know it.
We have evolved a tad since 1164 fgs, in our values and the way we treat others.
Still you have your views and thankfully every single person that I know has the same views as me....
Still I suppose someone has to oppose the obvious!
Have you ever wondered if the breadth of your circle of friends is restricted by the blinkers you so obviously wear?
Of course your not blinkered though are you? Oh no...
Of course you would be screaming REHABILITATION if it was one of your kids attacked like that. Yeah right.
Yay.... That's closed that argument out then...
