And here are some memories of the dead by the dead
"Anthem for a Doomed Youth"
What passing-bells for these who die as cattle?
--Only the monstrous anger of the guns.
Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle
Can patter out their hasty orisons.
No mockeries for them from prayers or bells,
Nor any voice of mourning save the choirs,-
The shrill, demented choirs of wailing shells;
And bugles calling for them from sad shires.
What candles may be held to speed them all?
Not in the hands of boys, but in their eyes
Shall shine the holy glimmers of goodbyes.
The pallor of girls' brows shall be their pall;
Their flowers the tenderness of silent minds,
And each slow dusk a drawing-down of blinds.
Wilfred Owen
"Back"
They ask me where I've been,
And what I've done and seen.
But what can I reply
Who know it wasn't I,
But someone just like me,
Who went across the sea
And with my head and hands
Killed men in foreign lands...
Though I must bear the blame,
Because he bore my name.
Wilfred Gibson
And to finish a really famous one again by Wilfred Owen
"Dulce et Decorum Est "
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.
Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! -- An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . . .
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under I green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, --
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
For the casualties of war, regardless of state.
They went with songs to the battle, they were young.
Straight of limb, true of eyes, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,
They fell with their faces to the foe.
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them
For me the poppy reminds me of the men and women who died in war and conflict - nothing more nothing less, I don't care about the politics the history or the outcome of the wars, what changes they made or didnt make I care only for the memory of those that died, I care nothing for what other people think the poppy represents or does not represent, it is not I, that have had the poppys representation tainted and I believe that there are many others that think the same.
I think some would have the poppy banned while shouting for the rights of people who wish to burn it or dishonour it, I think some need to look at themselves more closely.
And if anyone wants my address to "stand by me and disrespect it I will message it to them, they can then send me a postcard which will I return to them to show it to be genuine before they come to visit and air the views to me in person"
Some of the bloodiest fighting of World War One took place in the Flanders and Picardy regions of Belgium and Northern France. The poppy was the only thing which grew in the aftermath of the complete devastation. McCrae, a doctor serving there with the Canadian Armed Forces, deeply inspired and moved by what he saw, wrote these verses:
In Flanders' Fields
John McCrae, 1915
In Flanders' fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place: and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders' fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe;
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high,
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders' Fields.
On the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month in 1918, the First World War ended.
Civilians wanted to remember the people who had given their lives for peace and freedom.
An American War Secretary, Moina Michael, inspired by John McCrae's poem, began selling poppies to friends to raise money for the ex-Service community. And so the tradition began.
In 1922, Major George Howson, a young infantry officer, formed the Disabled Society, to help disabled ex-Service men and women from the First World War. Howson suggested to the British Legion that members of the Disabled Society could make poppies and the Poppy Factory was subsequently founded in Richmond in 1922. The original poppy was designed so that workers with a disability could easily assemble it and this principle remains today. Visit their website for more information.
For nearly 90 years, The Poppy Factory has been making poppies, crosses and wreaths for the Royal Family and the Royal British Legion’s annual Remembrance Day appeal. Since 2007, The Poppy Factory has also been placing wounded, injured or sick veterans of all ages into jobs beyond the Factory and all around the UK. Focusing on boosting employment prospects, The Poppy Factory has found and matched employers with clients, and in many cases, part-funded their clients’ first year’s salary, to allow for training into their new role. Join us in our drive to get wounded, sick and injured ex-Service men and women back to work.
Now I don't know about the rest, some who seem to think that the annual Poppy Appeal is a uniquely British thing, as you can see the original inspiration was Canadian, and the money raising aspect was an American idea later picked up on and adopted by the British (amongst others).
Whilst there will always be opposing viewpoints about the rights or wrongs of any war/conflict and the old saying that the victor gets to right the history, there is one fundamental point about the Poppy Appeal, in which ever Nation it is commerated, all too often the populations of many countries have been conscripted or volunteered to fight the political battles of their country for whatever reason. However whilst they have been paid when serving, the injuries inflicted on those that have survived has often been appalling.
However in many instances the really appalling aspect has often been the after care and support for these people by their Country's leaders. Whilst much has been done, and continues to be (sadly war/conflict seems to speed development in medical care and 'better' ways of killing people in equal care), the inescapeable fact is that it is and always has been insufficient, hence the annual Poppy Appeal, Help for Heroes, etc. in fund raising to pay "for the ex-Service community".
Whilst some chose to remember our fallen and injured by buying a poppy, some will attend an annual parade/ceremony, whilst others chose a few moments silence and solitude. One of the forgotten aspects is that we are all individuals, from many different backgrounds, religious beliefs (or not), however one thing you all have expressed is the sad loss of life by others on a frankly un-imaginable scale, whilst dis-agreeing on the why and wherefore.
Let us not forget, for most of human history war memorials were erected to commemorate great victories. Remembering the dead was a secondary concern. Indeed in Napoleon's day the dead were shoveled into mass, unmarked graves. The Arc de Triomphe in Paris or Nelson's Column in London contain no names of those killed.
Remembrance Day (also known as Poppy Day, Armistice Day) is a memorial day observed in Commonwealth countries since the end of World War I to remember the members of their armed forces who have died in the line of duty. This day, or alternative dates, are also recognized as special days for war remembrances in many non-Commonwealth countries. In France and Belgium the 11th is a Public Holiday, the German national day of mourning is the secular public holiday of Volkstrauertag, which since 1952 has been observed two Sundays before the first Sunday of Advent; in practice this is the Sunday closest to 16 November, in Italy, soldiers who died for the nation are remembered on 4 November; in the Netherlands, Remembrance Day is commemorated annually on 4 May, 11 November is a public holiday in Poland called Independence Day, and Veterans Day is commemorated in the United States on 11 November, and is both a federal holiday and a state holiday in all states. However, the function of the observance elsewhere is more closely matched by Memorial Day in May.
Execellent, though provoking, informative and something that those who disrespect the poppy and what it stands for should read 7 times
So here (bearing in mind the context of the original question)is the point you seem to be unable to grasp
This
is NOT a dead soldier
It is foolish to conflate the 'symbol' with that that it represents ..... people get killed or jailed for it, the people doing the killing and jailing are fucking idiots.
Apparently the British legion this year expects to sell 40 million poppies,how many of those 40 million observed a silence on Friday do you think ? (cos for all your cant about the eve of remembrance day star it was on Friday)....The poppy is devalued coinage,so here's a thought,what if instead of raking in the pennies and counting the proceeds the British Legion were to ask people to THINK about the nature of sacrifice,it's cost,and rewards,perhaps then we would have some true acts of remembrance rather than the hackneyed lip-service we in actual fact get
Oh and midscouple I will PM you my address if you want .... I don't travel
Let the hundreds and thousands start turning
The group was banned because it has already been stated on this thread that it was already banned but under a different name
Nobody has been banned on this site for freespeech. Breach of the AUP , yes, but freespeech no.
If you have found something offensive then use the report button.
Dave_Notts
Star it is your right to be offended by anything I've written in this thread ..... BUT I would suggest that if you are you haven't understood what it is that I've said,I haven't insulted or threatened anyone,I haven't been racist,sexist or homophobic....if it is my opinion you find offensive then that is your right,it is not however your right to try and prevent me from expressing it .... there are at times opinions expressed in this forum that I find deeply offensive,I have never tried to get these opinions censored it is not my right to stop people from expressing a point of view,it is not my right to expect people to agree with me, nor is it yours
