is right this ban this group without banning groups like the EDL ??
i`ll have to read a little more before i have my own opinion but i do lean a little towards whats good for the goose etc
more here
Sex God
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Muslims Against Crusades banned
Sex God
The home secretary said MAC was "simply another name" for an already-banned group
If the above is true then she was correct to do so
If the above is true then she was correct to do so
how can the burning of a symbol like the poppy do anything other than stir even more hatred.
there is no room at all, ever, never, for peeple such as this.
the poppy symbolises so much to this country. not just in recent conflicts but the two great wars that enabled peeple free speech but free speech only goes so far. this group are obscene and the ban is right and proper and sundays rememberance day will be much better without this group plotting and circulating its obvius hatred for us.
sunday should be a day of reflection for those lost in wars both past and present, this group have no right at all to disrupt any of it and no place in our society. :thumbup:
there is no room at all, ever, never, for peeple such as this.
the poppy symbolises so much to this country. not just in recent conflicts but the two great wars that enabled peeple free speech but free speech only goes so far. this group are obscene and the ban is right and proper and sundays rememberance day will be much better without this group plotting and circulating its obvius hatred for us.
sunday should be a day of reflection for those lost in wars both past and present, this group have no right at all to disrupt any of it and no place in our society. :thumbup:
how can the burning of a symbol like the poppy do anything other than stir even more hatred.
there is no room at all, ever, never, for peeple such as this.
:sad: Burning any symbol whether poppy or flags ,and it doesnt matter whether its a national symbol or a minority group in my view is a show of total hatred and therefore will only cause further discord
so spend sundays in bed make love not war
there is no room at all, ever, never, for peeple such as this.
:sad: Burning any symbol whether poppy or flags ,and it doesnt matter whether its a national symbol or a minority group in my view is a show of total hatred and therefore will only cause further discord
so spend sundays in bed make love not war
Sex God
The UK Home office list of proscribed groups and organisations can be found at
(dated 11 November 2011)
Currently there are :
47 international terrorist organisations are proscribed under the Terrorism Act 2000.
Of these, two organisations are proscribed under powers introduced in the Terrorism Act 2006, as glorifying terrorism.
14 organisations in Northern Ireland are proscribed under previous legislation.
(dated 11 November 2011)
Currently there are :
47 international terrorist organisations are proscribed under the Terrorism Act 2000.
Of these, two organisations are proscribed under powers introduced in the Terrorism Act 2006, as glorifying terrorism.
14 organisations in Northern Ireland are proscribed under previous legislation.
WHAT does the Poppy stand for, it started it's life by symbolising those who fell in what is termed the Great War or World War I, it has gone on to symbolise and help us remember those lost in all wars and conflicts.
WHO does is represent, those that died in wars and conflicts fighting for this Country, those Countries we protect and those that we chose to help and fight alongside.
Many of those who died fighting for what the Poppy symbolises were Muslims, many of those Countries we fought to protect or fought alongside are deemed "Muslim Countries" thousands of muslims have died fighting for this Country because they believed that it was the right thing to do, there are over 500 muslims currently serving in the British Army today some in Afghanistan. To disrespect the Poppy is to disrespect Christians and Muslims alike, simple proof that some people haven't a clue what they are doing and just follow the teachings of extremist hell bent on obtaining power, a story the world has heard from the start of mankind.
WHO does is represent, those that died in wars and conflicts fighting for this Country, those Countries we protect and those that we chose to help and fight alongside.
Many of those who died fighting for what the Poppy symbolises were Muslims, many of those Countries we fought to protect or fought alongside are deemed "Muslim Countries" thousands of muslims have died fighting for this Country because they believed that it was the right thing to do, there are over 500 muslims currently serving in the British Army today some in Afghanistan. To disrespect the Poppy is to disrespect Christians and Muslims alike, simple proof that some people haven't a clue what they are doing and just follow the teachings of extremist hell bent on obtaining power, a story the world has heard from the start of mankind.
Quote by MidsCouple24
WHAT does the Poppy stand for, it started it's life by symbolising those who fell in what is termed the Great War or World War I, it has gone on to symbolise and help us remember those lost in all wars and conflicts.
WHO does is represent, those that died in wars and conflicts fighting for this Country, those Countries we protect and those that we chose to help and fight alongside.
Many of those who died fighting for what the Poppy symbolises were Muslims, many of those Countries we fought to protect or fought alongside are deemed "Muslim Countries" thousands of muslims have died fighting for this Country because they believed that it was the right thing to do, there are over 500 muslims currently serving in the British Army today some in Afghanistan. To disrespect the Poppy is to disrespect Christians and Muslims alike, simple proof that some people haven't a clue what they are doing and just follow the teachings of extremist hell bent on obtaining power, a story the world has heard from the start of mankind.
Bravo :thumbup: and we shouldn't forget the fallen in WWII; an extension of the original intent to remember those of the Great War symbolised by the poppy fields of Flanders.
And also include those for whom no religion predominates.
The whole 'poppy' thing has been hijacked in recent times. I used to support the campaign but no longer do because of the 'politically correct extension' that has become so predominate of late and its commercialisation.
The Royal British Legion should be commended for the incredible work they do for ex-servicemen. I think that some of their funding relies on poppy sales.
But, inasmuch as in health terms, I believe the cancer research charity should be funded centrally, the RBL too should be funded by a grateful nation.
It is time for Government to put its money where its mouth is.
Sex God
What the cheap bits of plastic and paper mean to you and what they mean to anyone else may well be entirely different,I doubt very much that the poppy means anything more to this group than a means of gaining publicity for their cause .... well done them they got their publicity and didn't even have to bother protesting.
As to the original question ..... I think Rob that there is a good argument to be made for banning the EDL if this and similar groups are to be banned.I tend to believe that neither should be banned myself ... but then again I'm an old bleeding heart liberal who thinks the only way irrational hatred can be defeated is to give it space to show itself up for the idiocy that it is
As to the original question ..... I think Rob that there is a good argument to be made for banning the EDL if this and similar groups are to be banned.I tend to believe that neither should be banned myself ... but then again I'm an old bleeding heart liberal who thinks the only way irrational hatred can be defeated is to give it space to show itself up for the idiocy that it is
Sex God
Quote by GnV
What the cheap bits of plastic and paper mean to you and what they mean to anyone else may well be entirely different,
It seems they have more expensive alternatives - as seen on the lapels of the hoi polloi on TV Staggs; but I get your point.
They're not more expensive... they nick 'em out of a field , the cheap bastards
Does it matter what it is made of ? do people have plastic Christmas trees and plastic wreaths, plastic crosses and plastic crucifix to represent Christ ? do we wear cheap ribbons for cancer awareness ? Do people cover thier houses in every kind of light the manufacturers can sell us ? do we buy inordanate amounts of chocolate easter eggs because it shows we like the same food as Jesus, or wave plastic flags to support our favourite sports people ?
Surely it is all about what it symbolises and what it means to each individual.
As for banning groups, if a group is inciting racial hatred then that is breaking the law, don't ban the group just charge and try the members in a court of law and if found guilty of breaking any laws then jail them.
There is a fine line between free speech and inciting people to commit crime, a fine line but a definate line.
It is wrong for the BNP to incite racial and religious hatred and it is wrong for members of races and religious followings to do the same.
Surely it is all about what it symbolises and what it means to each individual.
As for banning groups, if a group is inciting racial hatred then that is breaking the law, don't ban the group just charge and try the members in a court of law and if found guilty of breaking any laws then jail them.
There is a fine line between free speech and inciting people to commit crime, a fine line but a definate line.
It is wrong for the BNP to incite racial and religious hatred and it is wrong for members of races and religious followings to do the same.
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
What the cheap bits of plastic and paper mean to you and what they mean to anyone else may well be entirely different,
It seems they have more expensive alternatives - as seen on the lapels of the hoi polloi on TV Staggs; but I get your point.
They're not more expensive... they nick 'em out of a field , the cheap bastards
but they're tiny and seem to be ceramic...
Sex God
Quote by GnV
What the cheap bits of plastic and paper mean to you and what they mean to anyone else may well be entirely different,
It seems they have more expensive alternatives - as seen on the lapels of the hoi polloi on TV Staggs; but I get your point.
They're not more expensive... they nick 'em out of a field , the cheap bastards
but they're tiny and seem to be ceramic...
Now those I haven't seen .... I shall take a walk in the country this weekend and look round the pottery fields
Sex God
Quote by GnV
WHAT does the Poppy stand for, it started it's life by symbolising those who fell in what is termed the Great War or World War I, it has gone on to symbolise and help us remember those lost in all wars and conflicts.
WHO does is represent, those that died in wars and conflicts fighting for this Country, those Countries we protect and those that we chose to help and fight alongside.
Many of those who died fighting for what the Poppy symbolises were Muslims, many of those Countries we fought to protect or fought alongside are deemed "Muslim Countries" thousands of muslims have died fighting for this Country because they believed that it was the right thing to do, there are over 500 muslims currently serving in the British Army today some in Afghanistan. To disrespect the Poppy is to disrespect Christians and Muslims alike, simple proof that some people haven't a clue what they are doing and just follow the teachings of extremist hell bent on obtaining power, a story the world has heard from the start of mankind.
Bravo :thumbup: and we shouldn't forget the fallen in WWII; an extension of the original intent to remember those of the Great War symbolised by the poppy fields of Flanders.
And also include those for whom no religion predominates.
The whole 'poppy' thing has been hijacked in recent times. I used to support the campaign but no longer do because of the 'politically correct extension' that has become so predominate of late and its commercialisation.
The Royal British Legion should be commended for the incredible work they do for ex-servicemen. I think that some of their funding relies on poppy sales.
But, inasmuch as in health terms, I believe the cancer research charity should be funded centrally, the RBL too should be funded by a grateful nation.
It is time for Government to put its money where its mouth is.
:thumbup:
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
Does it matter what it is made of ? do people have plastic Christmas trees and plastic wreaths, plastic crosses and plastic crucifix to represent Christ ? do we wear cheap ribbons for cancer awareness ? Do people cover thier houses in every kind of light the manufacturers can sell us ? do we buy inordanate amounts of chocolate easter eggs because it shows we like the same food as Jesus, or wave plastic flags to support our favourite sports people ?
Surely it is all about what it symbolises and what it means to each individual.
As for banning groups, if a group is inciting racial hatred then that is breaking the law, don't ban the group just charge and try the members in a court of law and if found guilty of breaking any laws then jail them.
There is a fine line between free speech and inciting people to commit crime, a fine line but a definate line.
It is wrong for the BNP to incite racial and religious hatred and it is wrong for members of races and religious followings to do the same.
:thumbup:
I think it is important that it is cheaply made, that way more of the money raised goes to the cause.
Sex God
Quote by browning
I don't think they should be banned, give 'em enough rope............
And
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I tend to believe that neither should be banned myself ... but then again I'm an old bleeding heart liberal who thinks the only way irrational hatred can be defeated is to give it space to show itself up for the idiocy that it is
I am not sure about this, can not make my mind up, logic says yes you are right, but that logic never prevailed in Germany in the thirty's. (you will note have deliberately avoided the naming of the man in question, to avoid the wrath of Godwins law...)
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
Does it matter what it is made of ? do people have plastic Christmas trees and plastic wreaths, plastic crosses and plastic crucifix to represent Christ ? do we wear cheap ribbons for cancer awareness ? Do people cover thier houses in every kind of light the manufacturers can sell us ? do we buy inordanate amounts of chocolate easter eggs because it shows we like the same food as Jesus, or wave plastic flags to support our favourite sports people ?
It is a foolish man who reveres the cross above the man on it
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
Surely it is all about what it symbolises and what it means to each individual.
:thumbup:
For me, this is the important part of Mids post
“Their name liveth for evermore” ....... “Lest we forget”
I see the poppy as a way to help us not forget, and help others at the same time.
Of coarse it is not the only way to remember and we must respect how others may wish to do this
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
Surely it is all about what it symbolises and what it means to each individual.
:thumbup:
For me, this is the important part of Mids post
“Their name liveth for evermore” ....... “Lest we forget”
I see the poppy as a way to help us not forget, and help others at the same time.
Of coarse it is not the only way to remember and we must respect how others may wish to do this
What do they REALLY symbolise Blue ???? The millions of men sold an imperialistic lie, fed into the machine of war and spat out as so much dead meat ?? What we learned from their deaths ??
We may pretend to revere the dead of the two world wars all we like,but we learned nothing from the millions dead..."a war to end all wars" that was the have we learned?? nothing,how many more million must you buy poppies for before we learn that peace cannot be found at the end of a gun?? your poppies are not symbols they are insults to the memory of those who died that we should have peace
You simply don't understand what the poppy means to some of us and for that reason you question us, even judge us and think us to be wrong, you don't have to agree with us, you don't have to support what we believe in, that is your right, a right preserved for you by those that died and those that the poppy represents.
The Poppy and this day is about those that gave thier lives for what we believe in, they did not fight for world peace, for economic success, for rich rewards or the things you seem to think they fought for, they fought and died for those at thier side, thier commrades, thier loved ones at home and for this Country, they fought for what they believed in and for that I respect them, it is thier sacrifice that allows you the freedom to say what you say without fear of imprisonment and torture, not everyone in the world can do that.
Believe what you believe, think what you think that is the right they gave you but do not stand in my presence and disrespect them
If you cannot stand behind our troops in thier conflict then please feel free to stand in front of them
The Poppy and this day is about those that gave thier lives for what we believe in, they did not fight for world peace, for economic success, for rich rewards or the things you seem to think they fought for, they fought and died for those at thier side, thier commrades, thier loved ones at home and for this Country, they fought for what they believed in and for that I respect them, it is thier sacrifice that allows you the freedom to say what you say without fear of imprisonment and torture, not everyone in the world can do that.
Believe what you believe, think what you think that is the right they gave you but do not stand in my presence and disrespect them
If you cannot stand behind our troops in thier conflict then please feel free to stand in front of them
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Surely it is all about what it symbolises and what it means to each individual.
:thumbup:
For me, this is the important part of Mids post
“Their name liveth for evermore” ....... “Lest we forget”
I see the poppy as a way to help us not forget, and help others at the same time.
Of coarse it is not the only way to remember and we must respect how others may wish to do this
What do they REALLY symbolise Blue ???? The millions of men sold an imperialistic lie, fed into the machine of war and spat out as so much dead meat ?? What we learned from their deaths ??
We may pretend to revere the dead of the two world wars all we like,but we learned nothing from the millions dead..."a war to end all wars" that was the have we learned?? nothing,how many more million must you buy poppies for before we learn that peace cannot be found at the end of a gun?? your poppies are not symbols they are insults to the memory of those who died that we should have peace
That's somewhat disingenuous Staggs and you know it.
I know you like controversy, but the two arguments are at opposite ends to each other. The poppy is a symbol of the memory of those who died. The opposite argument, which regrettably those who died cannot answer for, is that the Politicians who continue to warmonger are the ones who insult the memory of those brave men and women who died for a cause which provides us all with the right to freely state our views.
The more recent conflicts/skirmishes in places where we have no place to be are the ones that taint the bigger picture.
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
You simply don't understand what the poppy means to some of us and for that reason you question us, even judge us and think us to be wrong, you don't have to agree with us, you don't have to support what we believe in, that is your right, a right preserved for you by those that died and those that the poppy represents.
The Poppy and this day is about those that gave thier lives for what we believe in, they did not fight for world peace, for economic success, for rich rewards or the things you seem to think they fought for, they fought and died for those at thier side, thier commrades, thier loved ones at home and for this Country, they fought for what they believed in and for that I respect them, it is thier sacrifice that allows you the freedom to say what you say without fear of imprisonment and torture, not everyone in the world can do that.
Believe what you believe, think what you think that is the right they gave you but do not stand in my presence and disrespect them
If you cannot stand behind our troops in thier conflict then please feel free to stand in front of them
I do not disrespect the dead but the use their memory is put to .... If you really believe in the idea of the first war as anything other than a slaughterhouse for imperialism then you should read your history
And I shall stand in anybodies presence and say whatever I please ... it was what the war was for don't you know
oh deer. some peeple simply are so offensive purely for the sake of upsetting peeple.
the symbol of the poppy represents something, but none as blind as those who do not want to see !
purely for effect are some peeples comments and on that basis do not warrant any answer at all. :notes:
maybe the old soldiers for all there sacrifises should have allowed hitler to walk into this country at that time, to have simply said let us give up. i wonder what kind of world we would live in now? i wonder where the peeple who knock what the poppy represents would be saying now? for all the millions who gave the ultimate sacrifice to have it scoffed at by a few is downright disresectful!
the symbol of the poppy represents something, but none as blind as those who do not want to see !
purely for effect are some peeples comments and on that basis do not warrant any answer at all. :notes:
maybe the old soldiers for all there sacrifises should have allowed hitler to walk into this country at that time, to have simply said let us give up. i wonder what kind of world we would live in now? i wonder where the peeple who knock what the poppy represents would be saying now? for all the millions who gave the ultimate sacrifice to have it scoffed at by a few is downright disresectful!
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
What do they REALLY symbolise Blue ???? The millions of men sold an imperialistic lie, fed into the machine of war and spat out as so much dead meat ?? What we learned from their deaths ??
We may pretend to revere the dead of the two world wars all we like,but we learned nothing from the millions dead..."a war to end all wars" that was the have we learned?? nothing,how many more million must you buy poppies for before we learn that peace cannot be found at the end of a gun?? your poppies are not symbols they are insults to the memory of those who died that we should have peace
Clearly they symbolise some thing very different for me than they do for you
I would guess the reason I view the symbol of the poppy the way I do is probably rubbed off from my father, sadly no longer with us. He fought in the second world war and at this time of year always wore his poppy to show he remembered those who fell alongside him.
He had political views as we all do, but the poppy was about the men he stood alongside.
Has man kind has learnt anything from war? This clearly up for debate, but has little to do with the poppy in my view.
Again the "War to end all wars", why was it not? Just short sighted words really, and wishful thinking, but nothing to do with the poppy. More likely some thing to do with the the Treaty of Versailles, among many other things.
Sex God
Quote by GnV
Surely it is all about what it symbolises and what it means to each individual.
:thumbup:
For me, this is the important part of Mids post
“Their name liveth for evermore” ....... “Lest we forget”
I see the poppy as a way to help us not forget, and help others at the same time.
Of coarse it is not the only way to remember and we must respect how others may wish to do this
What do they REALLY symbolise Blue ???? The millions of men sold an imperialistic lie, fed into the machine of war and spat out as so much dead meat ?? What we learned from their deaths ??
We may pretend to revere the dead of the two world wars all we like,but we learned nothing from the millions dead..."a war to end all wars" that was the have we learned?? nothing,how many more million must you buy poppies for before we learn that peace cannot be found at the end of a gun?? your poppies are not symbols they are insults to the memory of those who died that we should have peace
That's somewhat disingenuous Staggs and you know it.
I know you like controversy, but the two arguments are at opposite ends to each other. The poppy is a symbol of the memory of those who died. The opposite argument, which regrettably those who died cannot answer for, is that the Politicians who continue to warmonger are the ones who insult the memory of those brave men and women who died for a cause which provides us all with the right to freely state our views.
The more recent conflicts/skirmishes in places where we have no place to be are the ones that taint the bigger picture.
Sorry G I don't agree that the arguments are different at all ... I do not hold to symbols or badges because they muddy the water ... look at the pathetic manufactured outrage in the media and amongst the political classes about the England football team being allowed to wear a picture and look for the outrage in the same places about the people of all creeds dieing around the world in different conflicts
The poppy as a symbol is smoke and mirrors,you may if you wish hold to some belief that ACTUALLY represents something of respect, but I would contend it has (in the modern world) as much to do with respect for the war dead as the cross has to do with what Jesus actually taught.
P.S. are you sure it's JUST the politicians who warmonger ??
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
oh deer. some peeple simply are so offensive purely for the sake of upsetting peeple.
the symbol of the poppy represents something, but none as blind as those who do not want to see !
purely for effect are some peeples comments and on that basis do not warrant any answer at all. :notes:
maybe the old soldiers for all there sacrifises should have allowed hitler to walk into this country at that time, to have simply said let us give up. i wonder what kind of world we would live in now? i wonder where the peeple who knock what the poppy represents would be saying now? for all the millions who gave the ultimate sacrifice to have it scoffed at by a few is downright disresectful!
but you thought you'd chip in anyway
I don't think I've criticised what the poppy represents ... I have suggested that it is as a symbol increasingly tainted by short sighted idiot jingoists,and as such no longer has the same meaning as it once had .... it was once a symbol of remembrance for ALL war dead not just those on our side ... that idea seems to have got lost in the fog doesn't it
you say things for effect mr staggers period.
i am not reely sure if you actualy beleeve what you write, but i beleeve that you say it purely for effect on here. it is i belleve a deliberate attempt to make yourself oh so important.
i maybe wrong but the things you say you know full well what effect it will have on here, just like this thred the day before rememberance sunday and you say the things you have.
purely for effect and you do it very well i must say. :notes::notes:
for me my feelings tomorrow will be towards our soldiers who have died forour cause. i will not remember others who were there to change our way of life to suit theres.
i am not reely sure if you actualy beleeve what you write, but i beleeve that you say it purely for effect on here. it is i belleve a deliberate attempt to make yourself oh so important.
i maybe wrong but the things you say you know full well what effect it will have on here, just like this thred the day before rememberance sunday and you say the things you have.
purely for effect and you do it very well i must say. :notes::notes:
for me my feelings tomorrow will be towards our soldiers who have died forour cause. i will not remember others who were there to change our way of life to suit theres.
