My local council

9 Aug 2010

so did you bother to read this bit at the bottom

The councils are "concerned" about the findings and will investigate.
They say they use licensed UK contractors to sort rubbish, which is then sold to recycling factories.
Another 46 British councils admit they do not know what happens to waste after it goes to sorting plants.

hardly responsible recycling yet you can track waste oil and whole lot more industrial wastes from collection to disposal
yet the councils are unable (or are they just unwilling ) wink

9 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
NO--my point is that the "gawdhelpus" amongst us would have us believe that waste sorted at home inevitably ends up in landfill. The truth is that some does, for pretty simple and obvious reasons, and lots doesnt.

Ben
For gods sake man.........have you not learnt by now that a plausible reason is not allowed when links are being posted lol

After reading the links, and seeing that some recyclables get contaminated and they are no use to sell on and the rubbish has to go to landfill..........it seems reasonable to me. Thank feck some contributers are not running the scheme or what they would produce would be worthless. Now that would be a waste of money.
Dave_Notts

9 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
The first link is how old? And refers to a specific seasonal event concerned with christmas refuse. The second is a general commentary and explains what can happen to stop sorted waste being recyclable. Hardly a case of recycling wagons heading off to the nearest landfill.

You have to understand the special 'logic' which is being applied.
The way it works is this:
1: Read about a case of a council/government department making a mistake (usually in a right wing tabloid)
2: Post a link to it on this forum
3: Present it as absolute proof that most of the public sector is incompetent/wasting taxpayers money
4: Resist any urge to put it into context (ie: the many millions of people who receive a decent service from the public sector every day)
5: Apply this 'logic' to all of your thinking and reasoning

9 Aug 2010

Quote by Lizaleanrob
so did you bother to read this bit at the bottom
The councils are "concerned" about the findings and will investigate.
They say they use licensed UK contractors to sort rubbish, which is then sold to recycling factories.
Another 46 British councils admit they do not know what happens to waste after it goes to sorting plants.

hardly responsible recycling yet you can track waste oil and whole lot more industrial wastes from collection to disposal
yet the councils are unable (or are they just unwilling ) wink

After it is sold as a commodity then their responsibilty ends. Do any other manufacturer knows what happens to their products dunno

Dave_Notts

9 Aug 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts
NO--my point is that the "gawdhelpus" amongst us would have us believe that waste sorted at home inevitably ends up in landfill. The truth is that some does, for pretty simple and obvious reasons, and lots doesnt.

Ben
For gods sake man.........have you not learnt by now that a plausible reason is not allowed when links are being posted lol

After reading the links, and seeing that some recyclables get contaminated and they are no use to sell on and the rubbish has to go to landfill..........it seems reasonable to me. Thank feck some contributers are not running the scheme or what they would produce would be worthless. Now that would be a waste of money.
Dave_Notts
that right dave so just dump it abroad aye wink

so whats wrong with our land fill ????

9 Aug 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts
so did you bother to read this bit at the bottom
The councils are "concerned" about the findings and will investigate.
They say they use licensed UK contractors to sort rubbish, which is then sold to recycling factories.
Another 46 British councils admit they do not know what happens to waste after it goes to sorting plants.

hardly responsible recycling yet you can track waste oil and whole lot more industrial wastes from collection to disposal
yet the councils are unable (or are they just unwilling ) wink

After it is sold as a commodity then their responsibilty ends. Do any other manufacturer knows what happens to their products dunno

Dave_Notts
im afraid so dave industrial waste if recycled can be tracked up and where it was disposed and what it was recycled into if it was recycled

9 Aug 2010

Quote by Lizaleanrob
NO--my point is that the "gawdhelpus" amongst us would have us believe that waste sorted at home inevitably ends up in landfill. The truth is that some does, for pretty simple and obvious reasons, and lots doesnt.

Ben
For gods sake man.........have you not learnt by now that a plausible reason is not allowed when links are being posted lol

After reading the links, and seeing that some recyclables get contaminated and they are no use to sell on and the rubbish has to go to landfill..........it seems reasonable to me. Thank feck some contributers are not running the scheme or what they would produce would be worthless. Now that would be a waste of money.
Dave_Notts
that right dave so just dump it abroad aye wink

so whats wrong with our land fill ????
You need to slow your typing down their Bobby.
I was answering your link that said that recyclables that get contaminated goes to landfill. Of course it will because it is ermmmmm......contaminated. It is now worthless in this condition and those that would buy it no longer want it. So to find some 0-10% goes to landfill is a reasonable expectation as some people cannot follow simple rules on how to recycle.
Now dumping abroad is definately wrong. The Germans used to do this so they could meet the EU quota. Looks like the UK is doing it now then. This is a problem and should be addressed.
dave_Notts

9 Aug 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts
NO--my point is that the "gawdhelpus" amongst us would have us believe that waste sorted at home inevitably ends up in landfill. The truth is that some does, for pretty simple and obvious reasons, and lots doesnt.

Ben
For gods sake man.........have you not learnt by now that a plausible reason is not allowed when links are being posted lol

After reading the links, and seeing that some recyclables get contaminated and they are no use to sell on and the rubbish has to go to landfill..........it seems reasonable to me. Thank feck some contributers are not running the scheme or what they would produce would be worthless. Now that would be a waste of money.
Dave_Notts
that right dave so just dump it abroad aye wink

so whats wrong with our land fill ????
You need to slow your typing down their Bobby.
I was answering your link that said that recyclables that get contaminated goes to landfill. Of course it will because it is ermmmmm......contaminated. It is now worthless in this condition and those that would buy it no longer want it. So to find some 0-10% goes to landfill is a reasonable expectation as some people cannot follow simple rules on how to recycle.
Now dumping abroad is definately wrong. The Germans used to do this so they could meet the EU quota. Looks like the UK is doing it now then. This is a problem and should be addressed.
dave_Notts
this was more the point i was making dave i hardly see a problem with 10% loss rate in fact that's a credit to recyclers up and down the country

9 Aug 2010

Quote by Lizaleanrob
so did you bother to read this bit at the bottom
The councils are "concerned" about the findings and will investigate.
They say they use licensed UK contractors to sort rubbish, which is then sold to recycling factories.
Another 46 British councils admit they do not know what happens to waste after it goes to sorting plants.

hardly responsible recycling yet you can track waste oil and whole lot more industrial wastes from collection to disposal
yet the councils are unable (or are they just unwilling ) wink

After it is sold as a commodity then their responsibilty ends. Do any other manufacturer knows what happens to their products dunno

Dave_Notts
im afraid so dave industrial waste if recycled can be tracked up and where it was disposed and what it was recycled into if it was recycled
You run a business and create waste. Do you know what that has turned into? Of course you do not. You have bought product and have the paperwork for it. When it becomes waste and you get rid of it you will have a waste transfer docket. This is the one up and one down principle.
The people who took your rubbish will have the copy of your docket and when they pass it on to someone else then they will give the waste carrier a receipt. Now they have a one up and one down traceability.
Do you know what has happened to your rubbish? Of course not. Should you care? Should you hell as like, as you have done it all correctly and can hold your head up high. As far as I am concerned you have done it all correct and now you concentrate on running your business and don't give a hoots what happens next down the line as it is not your responsibility.........
.........or do you actually know where your waste is?
Dave_Notts

9 Aug 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts
You run a business and create waste. Do you know what that has turned into? Of course you do not. You have bought product and have the paperwork for it. When it becomes waste and you get rid of it you will have a waste transfer docket. This is the one up and one down principle.
The people who took your rubbish will have the copy of your docket and when they pass it on to someone else then they will give the waste carrier a receipt. Now they have a one up and one down traceability.
Do you know what has happened to your rubbish? Of course not. Should you care? Should you hell as like, as you have done it all correctly and can hold your head up high. As afr as I am concerned you have done it all correct and now you concentrate on running your business and don't give a hoots what happens next down the line as it is not your responsibility.........
.........or do you actually know where your waste is?
Dave_Notts

out of idle curiosity yes we did track a consignment of waste oil at my brothers garage
some ended back into the motor trade other was used for lubrication product and so on it wasn't all his oil but it was very comprehensive
a bit geeky i know but i am a bit of a wink

cynic

9 Aug 2010

Quote by Lizaleanrob

You run a business and create waste. Do you know what that has turned into? Of course you do not. You have bought product and have the paperwork for it. When it becomes waste and you get rid of it you will have a waste transfer docket. This is the one up and one down principle.
The people who took your rubbish will have the copy of your docket and when they pass it on to someone else then they will give the waste carrier a receipt. Now they have a one up and one down traceability.
Do you know what has happened to your rubbish? Of course not. Should you care? Should you hell as like, as you have done it all correctly and can hold your head up high. As afr as I am concerned you have done it all correct and now you concentrate on running your business and don't give a hoots what happens next down the line as it is not your responsibility.........
.........or do you actually know where your waste is?
Dave_Notts

out of idle curiosity yes we did track a consignment of waste oil at my brothers garage
some ended back into the motor trade other was used for lubrication product and so on it wasn't all his oil but it was very comprehensive
a bit geeky i know but i am a bit of a wink

cynic
It is possible and some do it, but why? Apart from idle curiosity.
The main reason the traceability is there is so the Environment Agency can ask any business in the link to see if the waste is being disposed of correctly. This I agree with.
As a taxpayer, I would be more pissed off that the council is wasting my money by tracing it all the way to the end product, for what reason? Idle curiosity. That is a waste of money in my eyes.
Dave_Notts

9 Aug 2010

i dont think they need to trace every consignment but for the sake of a slip of paper then maybe dumping stuff abroad/or anywhere would be discouraged
as thing's stand recycling companies may well be taking the cream (papers etc)and dumping the rest in land fill .who would know dunno

I'm sure the council would be fined and ultimately pass it onto the tax payer who did their part :sad:

9 Aug 2010

Fuck I am confused as I must be missing something.
Councils make a massive fucking thing out of TELLING us to recycle, plus get paid a subsidy for the ammount they recycle from National Government.
They then provide more fecking bins that make gardens look horrific.
People carefully put their recyclables into the correct coloured bin.
Three big massive gas guzzling waste trucks appear each week, to take the recyclables to I presume somewhere where they get recycled?
Then after all that we find that some gets put into landfills along with all the other rubbish.
Have I got this right or is all this the blame of the right wing shit press, or are people being mugged?

9 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
Fuck I am confused as I must be missing something.
Councils make a massive fucking thing out of TELLING us to recycle, plus get paid a subsidy for the ammount they recycle from National Government.
They then provide more fecking bins that make gardens look horrific.
People carefully put their recyclables into the correct coloured bin.
Three big massive gas guzzling waste trucks appear each week, to take the recyclables to I presume somewhere where they get recycled?
Then after all that we find that some gets put into landfills along with all the other rubbish.
Have I got this right or is all this the blame of the right wing shit press, or are people being mugged?

or fortnightly wink

I would trust anything I read in a paper about as much as I trust what I read in many threads here :sad:

10 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
Fuck I am confused as I must be missing something.
Yes, you haven't read what people have wrote.........or understood it.
Have I got this right or is all this the blame of the right wing shit press, or are people being mugged?
No, you don't seem to grasp the fact that some recyclables get contaminated and become worthless. This is then taken to landfill as it is contaminated. It makes perfect business sense that a business does not throw money after a worthless cause.
Thankfully the private sector business who run the councils recyclables know about business sense and it isn't run by people who think they know.

Dave_Notts

10 Aug 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
The first link is how old? And refers to a specific seasonal event concerned with christmas refuse. The second is a general commentary and explains what can happen to stop sorted waste being recyclable. Hardly a case of recycling wagons heading off to the nearest landfill.

You have to understand the special 'logic' which is being applied.
The way it works is this:
1: Read about a case of a council/government department making a mistake (usually in a right wing tabloid)
2: Post a link to it on this forum
3: Present it as absolute proof that most of the public sector is incompetent/wasting taxpayers money
4: Resist any urge to put it into context (ie: the many millions of people who receive a decent service from the public sector every day)
5: Apply this 'logic' to all of your thinking and reasoning
shhhhhhhhh,dont let them know we are onto them!
its always good to get an in site into peoples true colours aye kas wink

:wink:

10 Aug 2010

Quote by Lizaleanrob
Well if they are coming anyway, why not kill two birds with one stone, and collect the bloody lot??
Or is that too complicated for the muppets at town halls?

Because they'd need to run twice as many trucks, one for waste going to land-fill, one for recycling? confused

N x x x ;)
Rumour has it that it all ends up in the same hole Neil. wink

Rumour?
Rumour?
Go on, you can do better than that, find a link :-)
if you insist

or this

i wonder if they could be fined for failing to recycle lol

Ah well, Nipper has heard his master's voice, gone looking and found what exactly?
He's found an article in the Scotsman that explains how some waste that is collected for recycling is contaminated, and therefore has to be landfilled because it can;t be recycled.
The same article has a reference tot he way a private contractor in Durham screwed up and couldn;t deliver high uality waste to the market. Well done, Nipper, you good and faithful servant.
For everyone else, the gist of the article, as opposed to the headline that got Nipper's tail wagging and his master applauding, is here;

However, Edinburgh comes out well when compared with other local authorities. The 232 tonnes a year discarded in the city account for just 0.5 per cent of the materials collected.
When a stray tin of paint whose lid works loose can wreck a truck full of recycling, it is inevitable that some will be unusable. Last year, the company collected 45,331 tonnes from 125,000 households.
East and West Lothian are painted as two of the main culprits by the SEPA statistics, with 16 per cent and ten per cent respectively of materials earmarked for recycling rejected as poor quality. Both councils, though, justifiably point to forward-thinking initiatives as the reason for their poor rating. Unlike Edinburgh, they send the contents of household rubbish bins to recycling depots, rather than straight to landfill, in an effort to fish out extra recyclable materials.

So even in East Lothian, the worst performer in Scotland, 84% of recyclable waste is uncontaminated and doesn't go into landfill. Thank you Nipper for identifying that, and the fact that in the best performing authority in Scotland, Edinburgh, 99.5% of collected recyclable waste is indeed recycled.
It's another cartoon moment; Ken threw the stick of dynamite (the demand for some evidence) away from him, and Nipper, like a good dog, retrieved it and dropped it at Ken's feet just in time for it to explode. What a cracking start to my day.

10 Aug 2010

Well, all this talk of ken and Scotland reminds me of
With sincere apologies to kentswingers777 for poking fun at him...

10 Aug 2010

Quote by GnV
Well, all this talk of ken and Scotland reminds me of this
With sincere apologies to kentswingers777 for poking fun at him...

I don't get it. Must be too early morning for me. PM box <<<<< that way to explain to this dumb git please redface

Dave_Notts

10 Aug 2010

Dya ken John Peel is the music Dave.. it's a Scottish ballad
I think its awayman who always refers to kentswingers777 as "ken" and there is a Scottish slant now to the thread...
Hope that helps wink

10 Aug 2010

Quote by awayman
Well if they are coming anyway, why not kill two birds with one stone, and collect the bloody lot??
Or is that too complicated for the muppets at town halls?

Because they'd need to run twice as many trucks, one for waste going to land-fill, one for recycling? confused

N x x x ;)
Rumour has it that it all ends up in the same hole Neil. wink

Rumour?
Rumour?
Go on, you can do better than that, find a link :-)
if you insist

or this

i wonder if they could be fined for failing to recycle lol

Ah well, Nipper has heard his master's voice, gone looking and found what exactly?
He's found an article in the Scotsman that explains how some waste that is collected for recycling is contaminated, and therefore has to be landfilled because it can;t be recycled.
The same article has a reference tot he way a private contractor in Durham screwed up and couldn;t deliver high uality waste to the market. Well done, Nipper, you good and faithful servant.
For everyone else, the gist of the article, as opposed to the headline that got Nipper's tail wagging and his master applauding, is here;

However, Edinburgh comes out well when compared with other local authorities. The 232 tonnes a year discarded in the city account for just 0.5 per cent of the materials collected.
When a stray tin of paint whose lid works loose can wreck a truck full of recycling, it is inevitable that some will be unusable. Last year, the company collected 45,331 tonnes from 125,000 households.
East and West Lothian are painted as two of the main culprits by the SEPA statistics, with 16 per cent and ten per cent respectively of materials earmarked for recycling rejected as poor quality. Both councils, though, justifiably point to forward-thinking initiatives as the reason for their poor rating. Unlike Edinburgh, they send the contents of household rubbish bins to recycling depots, rather than straight to landfill, in an effort to fish out extra recyclable materials.

So even in East Lothian, the worst performer in Scotland, 84% of recyclable waste is uncontaminated and doesn't go into landfill. Thank you Nipper for identifying that, and the fact that in the best performing authority in Scotland, Edinburgh, 99.5% of collected recyclable waste is indeed recycled.
It's another cartoon moment; Ken threw the stick of dynamite (the demand for some evidence) away from him, and Nipper, like a good dog, retrieved it and dropped it at Ken's feet just in time for it to explode. What a cracking start to my day.
probably a better one than yesterday aye :wink:
again a snippet of a link
try to read back i think the problem was and has been dumping earmarked recycled rubbish in other countries
something i enjoyed debateing with dave last night (with no sarky remarks or personal attacks you ought to try it )
again you avoid the point to make your own brash and worthless point
if you also read back i stated that the average 10% wast was a credit to those who recycle (but again that point has been missed)
so another awayman wooden spoon award winging its way to you
you`ll need another house soon for your collection

10 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
Fuck I am confused as I must be missing something.

Ooh this is an open goal, but I'll resist the urge!

Quote by kentswingers777
Councils make a massive fucking thing out of TELLING us to recycle, plus get paid a subsidy for the ammount they recycle from National Government.

Councils tell us to recycle because it's good for the environment and you'll have to pay more council tax unless they can reduce the amount that goes into landfill. Dead simple!

Quote by kentswingers777
People carefully put their recyclables into the correct coloured bin.

Unfortunately, people very often do no put the recyclables into the correct coloured bin. Hence why councils have staff encouraging people to make sure they get it right. If they persistently offend by not following the simple instructions, it can lead to them being prosecuted.

Quote by kentswingers777
Three big massive gas guzzling waste trucks appear each week, to take the recyclables to I presume somewhere where they get recycled?

If you are on what is confusingly termed a "fortnightly collection" (even though you get a collection every week), you will not get three gas guzzling waste trucks. It will be one truck a week as it always has been - one week it's your non recyclable and the next it's your recycling. That's certainly the way it works in my area.

Quote by kentswingers777
Then after all that we find that some gets put into landfills along with all the other rubbish.

As has already been explained, when it gets to the recycling plant they do a search and weed out the small proportion that isn't suitable to be recycled because it is contaminated. This then goes into landfill or some other form of waste disposal plant. But the vast, vast, vast majority of what goes into your recycling bin is recycled. You seem to be arguing that because a small percentage goes into landfill because it's not suitable for recycling, it's all pointless. The clues are in the words:not suitable for recycling!

Quote by kentswingers777
Have I got this right or is all this the blame of the right wing shit press, or are people being mugged?

The right wing media highlight a relatively small number of cases because it suits their agenda, which is to campaign against the nanny state telling people what to do. You read this drip feed of stories, and are convinced it is happening everywhere and that the whole system must be flawed.
Where I live there was a real kick off when they changed the system to an alternate week collection. This was simply because people don't like change. But residents gradually got used to it and as a result the recycling rate has rocketed. This is because people are making sure they separate out their waste properly because they know each type of waste only gets collected every other week. As a result the council is meeting its recycling targets. Now, if the council had caved in following the initial complaints, we would have gone back to the old system, there would have been no incentive to separate out waste properly because you know each bin is being emptied weekly, and the recycling rate would have remained static.

10 Aug 2010

Quote by Stevie J
Three big massive gas guzzling waste trucks appear each week, to take the recyclables to I presume somewhere where they get recycled?

If you are on what is confusingly termed a "fortnightly collection" (even though you get a collection every week), you will not get three gas guzzling waste trucks. It will be one truck a week as it always has been - one week it's your non recyclable and the next it's your recycling. That's certainly the way it works in my area.
Sorry ol' bean but you are not right to criticise kent there. I think he is quoting from my earlier posting about my personal observation whilst staying in the UK for 7 weeks earlier in the year when the same gas guzzling truck makes 3 visits on the same day to collect recyclables.

10 Aug 2010

Quote by Lizaleanrob
probably a better one than yesterday aye
again a snippet of a link
try to read back i think the problem was and has been dumping earmarked recycled rubbish in other countries
something i enjoyed debateing with dave last night (with no sarky remarks or personal attacks you ought to try it )
again you avoid the point to make your own brash and worthless point
if you also read back i stated that the average 10% wast was a credit to those who recycle (but again that point has been missed)
so another awayman wooden spoon award winging its way to you
you`ll need another house soon for your collection

Hang on a mo...........that wooden spoon is mine because I did not get what you were talking about at first.
You were talking about one thing and I was talking about another. People coming on to the forum for the first time must have looked at the posts, shook their heads and uttered "It is like a mad house. They are having a conversation and not about the same thing" rotflmao

Dave_Notts

10 Aug 2010

Quote by GnV

Three big massive gas guzzling waste trucks appear each week, to take the recyclables to I presume somewhere where they get recycled?

If you are on what is confusingly termed a "fortnightly collection" (even though you get a collection every week), you will not get three gas guzzling waste trucks. It will be one truck a week as it always has been - one week it's your non recyclable and the next it's your recycling. That's certainly the way it works in my area.
Sorry ol' bean but you are not right to criticise kent there. I think he is quoting from my earlier posting about my personal observation whilst staying in the UK for 7 weeks earlier in the year when the same gas guzzling truck makes 3 visits on the same day to collect recyclables.
its the old council issue rose tinted glasses GNV wink

but then how would they see this from a council office its a long way up there on that self appointed pedestal lol

10 Aug 2010

Quote by GnV

Three big massive gas guzzling waste trucks appear each week, to take the recyclables to I presume somewhere where they get recycled?

If you are on what is confusingly termed a "fortnightly collection" (even though you get a collection every week), you will not get three gas guzzling waste trucks. It will be one truck a week as it always has been - one week it's your non recyclable and the next it's your recycling. That's certainly the way it works in my area.
Sorry ol' bean but you are not right to criticise kent there. I think he is quoting from my earlier posting about my personal observation whilst staying in the UK for 7 weeks earlier in the year when the same gas guzzling truck makes 3 visits on the same day to collect recyclables.
Two here. One does the green and one does the recycling. Thinking about it, in the alternative weeks the household is picked up by one but I have no idea who takes the food waste that is left. I suspect the fecking big dog next door jumps over the fence and eats it............but as long as it is empty I don't care
Dave_Notts

10 Aug 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
Well, all this talk of ken and Scotland reminds me of this
With sincere apologies to kentswingers777 for poking fun at him...

omg thats painfull to listen too,u cruel man!
I've been called worse Kazzie wink

10 Aug 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts

probably a better one than yesterday aye
again a snippet of a link
try to read back i think the problem was and has been dumping earmarked recycled rubbish in other countries
something i enjoyed debateing with dave last night (with no sarky remarks or personal attacks you ought to try it )
again you avoid the point to make your own brash and worthless point
if you also read back i stated that the average 10% wast was a credit to those who recycle (but again that point has been missed)
so another awayman wooden spoon award winging its way to you
you`ll need another house soon for your collection

Hang on a mo...........that wooden spoon is mine because I did not get what you were talking about at first.
You were talking about one thing and I was talking about another. People coming on to the forum for the first time must have looked at the posts, shook their heads and uttered "It is like a mad house. They are having a conversation and not about the same thing" rotflmao

Dave_Notts
odd dave if they read the whole thing then it would be clear what i was debating in the end (one of the down falls of written debate )
and dave you only get a wooden spoon for being last not for being slow :wink:

10 Aug 2010

Quote by awayman
It's another cartoon moment; Ken threw the stick of dynamite (the demand for some evidence) away from him, and Nipper, like a good dog, retrieved it and dropped it at Ken's feet just in time for it to explode. What a cracking start to my day.

You have such a away with words.
In your day that is no doubt about as exciting as it gets.
I am so depressed now I will have to pick the phone up and make that appointment with my therapist I was talking about the other day.:cry:
Still I hope I can resist the urge as I am so much stronger than that.....well I hope so anyWAY.
You can arf ramble on at times, and as has been mentioned already....the issue has been raised before you came along with your attitude problems.
I really think you need to look at the whole thread and not just what I write....I am beginning to feel I have a stalker on here.
I really do not know what your days would be like without looking for my posts every morning.:grin:
I think I may really have to not post for a couple of days and send you into meltdown. wink

10 Aug 2010

Quote by GnV
Well, all this talk of ken and Scotland reminds me of this
With sincere apologies to kentswingers777 for poking fun at him...

No worrys GNV I know you are not a Troll...now where are they all?
There they are hiding behind the sofa...........look over there---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*