Quote by kentswingers777
I have supplied two very good links, it is you I feel that is only looking at this through great big rose tinted glasses my friend.
Quote by GnV
1600 members ffs?
:laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove:
That many eh?:shock:
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
under the yoke of mass unemployment,above average drug use and social decay.
Quote by s3xyl3xy
It was nothing to do with cost it was about a political war and a governments desire to kill off one of the strongest sections of the working classes, the ones Thatcher termed "the enemy within" and in doing so also kill off the unions.
Using a cost argument is not viable as taking into account fuel, operating and maintenance costs, regulatory fees, pensions, taxes, insurance, property taxes, capital, admin and overheads and not forgetting decommissioning and waste costs in relation to nuclear, figures from for example 2005 show that the difference in costs for coal and nuclear power are negligable.
Nuclear 30.0 million
Coal 29.1 million
Quote by kentswingers777
I include Wales and Scotland together with England and say Britain's coal-fields, sadly, were not profitable. Prior to Mrs T the coal industry was subsidised by the government owning it. The major coal customers eg the power stations were also nationalised and everyone paid a subsidy to the coal industry through their electricity bill. This fed though into prices and the UK was a country with relatively high inflation.
The pits were subsidised to no where near the 80% that the cheap imported coal was,it's the classic half truth we always hear about the British mining industry...if the pits weren't profitable it was because of lack of investment...the newer pits and those that had received investment in modern technology were more than able to compete....but Thatcher refused to level the playing field
Mining is a horrible, dangerous and dirty industry which was artificially kept going as a sort of branch of the social services. I know in the 'romance of coal' all those Welsh miners go off to the pits happily singing but in reality few would have liked their sons to follow them down there. The industry was recognised as having no significant future in the UK.
By who??
The correct thing to have done would have been to run down the industry in a controlled way as was done in Europe but Thatcher inherited an industry which was far too big because of over-dependence on coal as a primary fuel for power generation and earlier coal strikes where the NUM (national union of mineworkers) had asserted that mines should only close when the last tonne of coal had been extracted. That led to the situation of men traveling miles underground to work seams only a few inches thick - no matter what the price of oil might be there was no way that could be profitable.
Agreements were in place in many coal fields to allow for the staged closure of pits...one of the reasons for the strike was that the government reneged on them and were threatening early closures
Foreign fuel was being purchased by the then CEGB (central electricity generating board) prior to the strike as an insurance policy in the event of a strike being called. The technology of coal transport had advanced since the war and very large bulk carriers could bring bring 50 thousand tonnes plus in a single cargo from any country in the world where steam coal was cheap because of lower cost operations which were really just like quarrying such as Australia, South Africa and Colombia. While all this was going on gas and oil were at historically low prices and the problem is that burning coal in a clean and efficient way is always more expensive than burning other fuels. The technology for burning coal has not developed very quickly despite the recurrent talk of new technologies on the horizon and there has not really been a huge influx of steam coal into the UK for power generation and cement-making.
That would government refusal to invest in new technology again
The other major sort of traded coal - coking coal for steel making - had for a long time been sourced from overseas such as the USA on quality grounds as there is just not enough good quality coking coal left in the UK.
I live quite close to what is reputed to be a fucking huge seam of top quality anthracite
My view is that the industry had to be reduced because of its cost which was holding back other areas of the economy but that a less confrontational resolution should have been found but of course you had a belligerent president of the NUM (Arthur Scargill) who wanted to bring class war onto the streets and a prime minister who was determined not to be brushed aside as had been done to her Tory predecessor Edward Heath some years previously.
Again we have this myth that it was all down to is a flawed man in many ways the one thing he was right about was the governments intentions towards his industry he was not and still isn't capable of mass hypnosis,if the miners went on strike it was because they believed it was the right and only thing to do ...this talk of class war is fine but it was being fought by two sides and by one side at least on many fronts...The history of this country from the late seventies onwards is of the ascendency of the middle the late 70's it became apparent that social position was no longer a good enough demarcation for the middle classes, our political history from that point onwards is that of the middle classes battle to replace this with economic muscle with little or no care for who suffered in the attempt....you deride my and others socialism I/we have no desire to bring anyone down but would rather raise those at the bottom up...this appals you and the rest of your class....after all what can you brag about if a miner earns as much or more than that is what the miners strike was really about
We have had new labour governments for some years now and to the best of my knowledge there has been no attempt to revive any of the closed mines. Sorry but coal mining in this country apart from some very specific mines dedicated to power stations is now history.
This is perhaps the only part of this post that doesn't smack of a quote...and has nothing to do with anything other than your preoccupation with new labour...closed mines are prohibitively expensive to re-open you see whilst they lie fallow they flood and collapse (ever heard of subsidence)the only effective way to work a previously mined seam is to open a new shaft...a very expensive new labour old labour coalition old tory new libdem new tory whatever the colour of the following governments the Thatcher government effectively killed the British mining industry
Fill ya boots.
Sort of makes what is known as perfect sense and I think more than answers any questions.
Quote by kentswingers777
under the yoke of mass unemployment,above average drug use and social decay.
Quote by Bluefish2009
Well perhaps if one has to be from a mining area to understand why miners went on strikes then perhaps you needed to be from a none mining area to understand how fed up most of the country was with Scargill and his antics
If it works one way must work the other
Quote by GnV
snip ....
The miners strike was 1984-1985, your age is 44 apparently cos I had a little gander. Now that in my book would make you a very young man when the strike started.
I find it strange how a young man would go the width and breadth of England, to support the miners. An odd one for a young man to do who is not a miner. Still you were probably at the Poll tax riots too. See what higher education can do?
Quote by kentswingers777
I have never seeen such hatred expressed towards a group of human beings in my life based solely on what they end up doing to earn a living.
Quote by Benny
Were some members of our community scared by the coal man as a child or summat? or is there a wish to get a rise out of other community members?
Quote by Benny
For our younger readers, I should point out that the mining industry was systematically destroyed by a government with vested interests in its destruction and no concern for the misery caused.
Quote by Benny
The death of British mining was a tragedy. To dance on its grave is incredibly distasteful. But then like I said one presumes the thread is done for effect.
Quote by awayman
snip ....
The miners strike was 1984-1985, your age is 44 apparently cos I had a little gander. Now that in my book would make you a very young man when the strike started.
I find it strange how a young man would go the width and breadth of England, to support the miners. An odd one for a young man to do who is not a miner. Still you were probably at the Poll tax riots too. See what higher education can do?
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Well perhaps if one has to be from a mining area to understand why miners went on strikes then perhaps you needed to be from a none mining area to understand how fed up most of the country was with Scargill and his antics
If it works one way must work the other
Quote by awayman
I have never seeen such hatred expressed towards a group of human beings in my life based solely on what they end up doing to earn a living.
Quote by Benny
Were some members of our community scared by the coal man as a child or summat? or is there a wish to get a rise out of other community members?
Quote by Benny
For our younger readers, I should point out that the mining industry was systematically destroyed by a government with vested interests in its destruction and no concern for the misery caused.
Quote by Benny
The death of British mining was a tragedy. To dance on its grave is incredibly distasteful. But then like I said one presumes the thread is done for effect.
Quote by GnV
The membership of the N.U.M. declined because the Thatcher government closed all the pits .....we've done this before you were wrong then you remain wrong..Scargill and the N.U.M. didn't close one single pit....we're now dependant on foreign energy supplies for one reason and she also nicked the school milk...as I said your understanding of recent British history leaves a lot to be desired.
You will never understand the miners strike because as I said you don't come from a mining area....and you will never get past your idea of the miners as a bunch of thick northern sheep who followed where Scargill lead.
Quote by Bluefish2009
Well perhaps if one has to be from a mining area to understand why miners went on strikes then perhaps you needed to be from a none mining area to understand how fed up most of the country was with Scargill and his antics
If it works one way must work the other
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Well perhaps if one has to be from a mining area to understand why miners went on strikes then perhaps you needed to be from a none mining area to understand how fed up most of the country was with Scargill and his antics
If it works one way must work the other
Quote by kentswingers777
It was nothing to do with cost it was about a political war and a governments desire to kill off one of the strongest sections of the working classes, the ones Thatcher termed "the enemy within" and in doing so also kill off the unions.
Using a cost argument is not viable as taking into account fuel, operating and maintenance costs, regulatory fees, pensions, taxes, insurance, property taxes, capital, admin and overheads and not forgetting decommissioning and waste costs in relation to nuclear, figures from for example 2005 show that the difference in costs for coal and nuclear power are negligable.
Nuclear 30.0 million
Coal 29.1 million
Quote by Bluefish2009
Well perhaps if one has to be from a mining area to understand why miners went on strikes then perhaps you needed to be from a none mining area to understand how fed up most of the country was with Scargill and his antics
If it works one way must work the other
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Well perhaps if one has to be from a mining area to understand why miners went on strikes then perhaps you needed to be from a none mining area to understand how fed up most of the country was with Scargill and his antics
If it works one way must work the other
Quote by Bluefish2009
Well perhaps if one has to be from a mining area to understand why miners went on strikes then perhaps you needed to be from a none mining area to understand how fed up most of the country was with Scargill and his antics
If it works one way must work the other
Quote by Bluefish2009
Not everyone has the same view point as you Staggs, many of us in the rest of the country only saw Scargills loathing for Thatcher and the Tory's.
You can not attempt to hold a country to ransom and expect to get away with it, the truckers tried that kind of thing with the fuel crisis and just like the miners, very quickly lost any support they may have previously had.
A large percentage of mines were already on their knees with only a handful being profitable.
Quote by awayman
Well perhaps if one has to be from a mining area to understand why miners went on strikes then perhaps you needed to be from a none mining area to understand how fed up most of the country was with Scargill and his antics
If it works one way must work the other
Quote by Lizaleanrob
not forgetting scargill's Hench men and the flying pickets and the fact that scargill ignored a ballot against
after researching it last time it came up ,i could only come up with the conclusion that neither scargill or thatcher did what was best by the miners
scargill does however seem to have managed quite nicely compared with the people he represented
and i would add from an outsider and a little research he looks as much a socialist as branson looks a marxist
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
1600 members ffs?
:laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove:
That many eh?:shock:
