NUM | Swinging Heaven

31 Aug 2010

The working class at BMW, did they loose out, at least some still have jobs, where as we have no car indutry left at all :sad:
Surely the lessen is, we did it the wrong way, they did it the right way dunno

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
The working class at BMW, did they loose out, at least some still have jobs, where as we have no car indutry left at all :sad:
Surely the lessen is, we did it the wrong way, they did it the right way

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
The working class at BMW, did they loose out, at least some still have jobs, where as we have no car indutry left at all :sad:
Surely the lessen is, we did it the wrong way, they did it the right way

To my simple logic, some is surely better than none :dunno:

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
The working class at BMW, did they loose out, at least some still have jobs, where as we have no car indutry left at all :sad:
Surely the lessen is, we did it the wrong way, they did it the right way

To my simple logic, some is surely better than none :dunno:
And to mine it depends on wether you're one of those 'some' or not

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
The working class at BMW, did they loose out, at least some still have jobs, where as we have no car indutry left at all :sad:
Surely the lessen is, we did it the wrong way, they did it the right way

To my simple logic, some is surely better than none :dunno:
And to mine it depends on wether you're one of those 'some' or not
To my mind that logic is flawed, as you would sacrifice the chance of the some with the end result that everybody looses :dunno:

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
The working class at BMW, did they loose out, at least some still have jobs, where as we have no car indutry left at all :sad:
Surely the lessen is, we did it the wrong way, they did it the right way

To my simple logic, some is surely better than none :dunno:
And to mine it depends on wether you're one of those 'some' or not
To my mind that logic is flawed, as you would sacrifice the chance of the some with the end result that everybody looses :dunno:
I would say that not one worker has to lose...it is the boardroom and shareholders of a company that require competition...the workers don't...they require a livelihood..it's the same in all companies in all countries....why then should they suffer to line the pockets of their 'masters' ?

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
The working class at BMW, did they loose out, at least some still have jobs, where as we have no car indutry left at all :sad:
Surely the lessen is, we did it the wrong way, they did it the right way

To my simple logic, some is surely better than none :dunno:
And to mine it depends on wether you're one of those 'some' or not
To my mind that logic is flawed, as you would sacrifice the chance of the some with the end result that everybody looses :dunno:
I would say that not one worker has to lose...it is the boardroom and shareholders of a company that require competition...the workers don't...they require a livelihood..it's the same in all companies in all countries....why then should they suffer to line the pockets of their 'masters' ?
I know this very knoble sentiment, but its not happening, it will never happen, so we have to make it work the best way we can so the least amount of people suffer

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Too Hot
In many countries you starve if you don't work

I find it unfortunate that we in the western world seem to accept this as an unchangeable fact...it isn't and the answer doesn't lie in us eroding our standard of living...people starving in this country will not allieviante the suffering of those in others,the only way to do this is to enable them to improve their standard of living.

Quote by Too Hot
we must still feel some pain when people more hungry than we are go into direct competition with us. This is the harsh reality of the global economy and the way that the majority in the world truly have to fight to feed themselves.

This is indeed the reality of our world...not the inevitable reality but just the present conditions existed in this country at one time...WE the working classes changed that,and again the answer is not to give up what the unions and their members have fought for, but to assist and enable others to achieve the same.

Quote by Too Hot
This is not about accepting a downward spiral of wages - but what happened in this country four or five years with the massive influx of plumbers and electricians from the Czech Republic, Poland and Slovakia? These people were prepared to work longer hours and for less money than the UK nationals - something had to give in that equation - what was it?

Why did those plumbers,electricians etc. Flock here ?Higher wages and better conditions...what then if similar wages and conditions were available in their own countries ? Would they still have come?would some of us make the opposite journey?
The answer isn't and never will be to erode our standard of living in the name of competition.
The answer is to raise the standard of living worldwide in the name of brotherhood and freedom.
There is an old slogan..."workers of the world unite,you have nothing to lose but your chains." it was and still is true.

Quote by Bluefish2009
I know this very knoble sentiment, but its not happening, it will never happen, so we have to make it work the best way we can so the least amount of people suffer

I think the above serves as answer to your point too blue.

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Why did those plumers,electricians etc. Flock here ?Higher wages and better conditions...what then if similar wages and conditions were available in their own countries ? Would they still have come?would some of us make the opposite journey?
The answer isn't and never will be to erode our standard of living in the name of answer is to raise the standard of living worldwide in the name of brotherhood and freedom.
There is an old slogan..."workers of the world unite,you have nothing to lose but your chains." it was and still is true.

It is in my view this sentiment of all for one and one for all that is eroding the standard of living.
Just because another business/country under cuts you, does not mean, in my view, that you have to under cut them. You do what BMW did, you make a better product, you make it more desirable and put your price up

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009

Why did those plumers,electricians etc. Flock here ?Higher wages and better conditions...what then if similar wages and conditions were available in their own countries ? Would they still have come?would some of us make the opposite journey?
The answer isn't and never will be to erode our standard of living in the name of answer is to raise the standard of living worldwide in the name of brotherhood and freedom.
There is an old slogan..."workers of the world unite,you have nothing to lose but your chains." it was and still is true.

It is in my view this sentiment of all for one and one for all that is eroding the standard of living.
Just because another business/country under cuts you, does not mean, in my view, that you have to under cut them. You do what BMW did, you make a better product, you make it more desirable and put your price up
How blue? ......how does that work?...because I am honestly mystified by this

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB

Why did those plumers,electricians etc. Flock here ?Higher wages and better conditions...what then if similar wages and conditions were available in their own countries ? Would they still have come?would some of us make the opposite journey?
The answer isn't and never will be to erode our standard of living in the name of answer is to raise the standard of living worldwide in the name of brotherhood and freedom.
There is an old slogan..."workers of the world unite,you have nothing to lose but your chains." it was and still is true.

It is in my view this sentiment of all for one and one for all that is eroding the standard of living.
Just because another business/country under cuts you, does not mean, in my view, that you have to under cut them. You do what BMW did, you make a better product, you make it more desirable and put your price up
How blue? ......how does that work?...because I am honestly mystified by this
Well it has not worked has it Stags, in the vain attempts to keep everybody job, in so many industry's here in the UK, we lost all the jobs in those industry's

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009

Why did those plumers,electricians etc. Flock here ?Higher wages and better conditions...what then if similar wages and conditions were available in their own countries ? Would they still have come?would some of us make the opposite journey?
The answer isn't and never will be to erode our standard of living in the name of answer is to raise the standard of living worldwide in the name of brotherhood and freedom.
There is an old slogan..."workers of the world unite,you have nothing to lose but your chains." it was and still is true.

It is in my view this sentiment of all for one and one for all that is eroding the standard of living.
Just because another business/country under cuts you, does not mean, in my view, that you have to under cut them. You do what BMW did, you make a better product, you make it more desirable and put your price up
How blue? ......how does that work?...because I am honestly mystified by this
Well it has not worked has it Stags, in the vain attempts to keep everybodys in so many indutry's here in the UK we lost all the jobs
It didn't work not because of the fight but the opposition blue.......If you have government that is only interested in their own short term profit...then the result of de-industrialisation is unimportant to them....we are living with the long term effects of this not of an organised working class...the fact that they persuaded you and so many others that they're innocent is their true victory....we are sinking blue,and I promise you the answer doesn't lie those who would separate people but those who would unite them

31 Aug 2010

I have my opinions, not that of any Government/s
Industry's need to look forward, not backwards.
Improve what you do or be left behind
I look at thing like this, Instead of looking for people to blame, I am looking at how I can improve mine and my family's lot, and my hope is, that will help improve other peoples circumstances
I worked for some time with a man who had worked for British Leyland, he did my head in. The constant quietening of what was required of him, we cant do this because we should not do this because. Forever trying to disrupt. And that, IMO, is why BL is no more.

1 Sep 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009

Why did those plumers,electricians etc. Flock here ?Higher wages and better conditions...what then if similar wages and conditions were available in their own countries ? Would they still have come?would some of us make the opposite journey?
The answer isn't and never will be to erode our standard of living in the name of answer is to raise the standard of living worldwide in the name of brotherhood and freedom.
There is an old slogan..."workers of the world unite,you have nothing to lose but your chains." it was and still is true.

It is in my view this sentiment of all for one and one for all that is eroding the standard of living.
Just because another business/country under cuts you, does not mean, in my view, that you have to under cut them. You do what BMW did, you make a better product, you make it more desirable and put your price up
How blue? ......how does that work?...because I am honestly mystified by this
Well it has not worked has it Stags, in the vain attempts to keep everybody job, in so many industry's here in the UK, we lost all the jobs in those industry's
I've reconsidered my answer to this one blue...it may be just re-phrasing it slightly but ....... we lost jobs because the only people fighting to save them were the unions and their members..we lost jobs because the management and the government didn't care if they went....the only people who were fighting for the rights of the working classes were outnumbered and outgunnned.......you're a fan of Churchill...the 80's were our Gallipoli or Dunkirk...battles are sometimes lost...the answer isn't to surrender

1 Sep 2010

Clap clap clap..............
Carry on Staggs, you are almost believing the drivel you write.
" .the 80's were our Gallipoli or Dunkirk...battles are sometimes lost...the answer isn't to surrender ".
That kind of attitude and you wonder why Thatcher wanted the unions smashed.
If I heard one of my employees utter such nonsense I would tell them to fuck right off out of my business.
The trouble is you make it seem like some kind of war.........employees versus employer.
Anybody who wants a lesson in union history and the demise of British industry, look no further than your complete distorted views, and most certainly your statement above!
I have seen people saying things like that just before the whole company went out on strike. British Leyland had hundreds of people like you there....no wonder it went down the toilet.
You my old Son are living in the past, this is not the 80's now........do you really understand how pathetic some of your comments sound?
Can anyone imagine for a second what it must be like to run a business and have people like yourself stirring the shit on a daily basis?
You and your attitudes would not last five minutes in most companies today........this is just so for YOU....

You really need to bring yourself up to date, the 80's are gone now, and thank fuck for that.
Any employer who is not a member or who even is on here , must have their faces in their hands reading this thread, and thanking their lucky stars that attitudes like yours are mainly confined to the dustbin of union history.

1 Sep 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
Clap clap clap..............
Carry on Staggs, you are almost believing the drivel you write.
" .the 80's were our Gallipoli or Dunkirk...battles are sometimes lost...the answer isn't to surrender ".
That kind of attitude and you wonder why Thatcher wanted the unions smashed.
If I heard one of my employees utter such nonsense I would tell them to fuck right off out of my business.
The trouble is you make it seem like some kind of war.........employees versus employer.
Anybody who wants a lesson in union history and the demise of British industry, look no further than your complete distorted views, and most certainly your statement above!
I have seen people saying things like that just before the whole company went out on strike. British Leyland had hundreds of people like you there....no wonder it went down the toilet.
You my old Son are living in the past, this is not the 80's now........do you really understand how pathetic some of your comments sound?
Can anyone imagine for a second what it must be like to run a business and have people like yourself stirring the shit on a daily basis?
You and your attitudes would not last five minutes in most companies today........this is just so for YOU....

You really need to bring yourself up to date, the 80's are gone now, and thank fuck for that.
Any employer who is not a member or who even is on here , must have their faces in their hands reading this thread, and thanking their lucky stars that attitudes like yours are mainly confined to the dustbin of union history.

No Ken I'm not living in the past..just learning from it
My employer fucking loves me...I'm a good worker I get things done...I've worked there for 20 years with an 18 month hiatus..he took me back no questions asked..I must be an awful employee...I've never been sacked in my life.
See the thing is Ken I don't (as you obviously do)see a war between employer and employee I see a war between those who's self interest overrides the common good and those who believe the common good comes first....not all employers see there workforce as the enemy some believe there is a process of co-operation required for an efficient war is between as I've already said those who would divide us and those who would unite us.
The Gallipoli/Dunkirk analogy works thus....both Gallipoli and Dunkirk were disastrous, as was the 80's for the unions and the working classes....neither Gallipoli or Dunkirk were decisive in the final outcome....I hope this clarifies it for you

1 Sep 2010

Oh and btw ......Jethro fucking Tull ?????!!!!! and I'm supposed to be living in the past....looks once more for the 'more in sorrow than anger' emote :facepalm:

1 Sep 2010

pops head in
narrowly avoids flying cutlery and ornaments
makes a hasty retreat back to the current affairs forum home page
lol

:lol:

1 Sep 2010

I am sure somewhere it was mentioned someone was pushed out from their job.........maybe that's why the attitude.
Will have to have more of a gander.

1 Sep 2010

I jumped before I was pushed old boy ....we reached an equitable agreement ....I have as I said never been sacked in my life...and if you'd like to include my explanation of the circumstances in any quote you care to find...I think my peers here will feel I was justified in the actions that lead to me leaving

1 Sep 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I jumped before I was pushed old boy ....we reached an equitable agreement ....I have as I said never been sacked in my life...and if you'd like to include my explanation of the circumstances in any quote you care to find...I think my peers here will feel I was justified in the actions that lead to me leaving

Ah right so you was obviously going to be pushed then? :twisted:
See that is the fantastic thing about the internet....you just do not know when people are telling fibs or actually telling the truth old boy.

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
we reached an equitable agreement

Yes of course you did.....before you was pushed of course. flipa

Next.

1 Sep 2010

I'd say five grand in the bank was fairly equitable.....they may have been pushing but I would have got more at the tribunal.
Would you like to return to the topic, or are you still intent on getting this thread removed ??
Or even a reasoned response to any point I raise would be nice

1 Sep 2010

No I have heard enough for one day ta. lol

I certainly want the thread to stay open, as it may well beat the record of 19 pages, cannot remember who the thread was by now.
Next.

1 Sep 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
See that is the fantastic thing about the internet....you just do not know when people are telling fibs or actually telling the truth old boy.

Have you ever heard of a little add-on to firefox called TinEye ??..it's a marvellous little thing that searches the internet for all other instances of any given image...it can reveal some surprising things

1 Sep 2010

No prefer IE to be honest.

1 Sep 2010

You should try firefox ...you're missing out so much in adaptability....admittedly it can be a little complicated for some to make the switch but once you get used to it,it's sooooooo much better ..faster too

1 Sep 2010

I will bare in mind the advice......firefix you say?
Cannot seem to find anything like that on the www.