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ODD ( that''s Oppositional Defiance Disorder )
Quote by benrums0n
I think people deserve respect. The history of your forum posts Kent, indicates to me that you do not. I could ignore your constant hate inspired posts but I prefer to challenge them.
Then may I suggest Benny that you do not send me anymore pm's stating the opposite.
I have more pm's than I can remember from people agreeing with me, but for some strange reason they don't want to say it on the forum.
I think I have been there before on this one and am not going there again.
You challenge me as much as you like, but as always you will be wrong.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
<snip>
For a child psychologist has diagnosed him with some fantasy condition called Oppositional Defiance Disorder, which means he does the opposite of what anyone tells him to do. Maybe it should be renamed....ALBS, which is Awkward Little Bugger Syndrome.
You spelt "excuse" wrong!
I've not read the article or the whole thread... I just read your post and it made me roll my eyes. For two reasons! :shock:
The first being that I actually agree with you Kenty! :giggle:
The second... I mean come on... are we just going to make up some random name for bad behaviour? This 'new' disorder has appeared how? Why? Because someone thinks it's a breakthrough? Save blaming the parents for their poor parenting skills? Or is there no such thing? The parents are probably my age and don't know any better because they missed out on the sort of upbringing I had? I think I'll just get off my soap box and be a snob in silence.
(And I'm cross now because I'm having one of those 'oh my god I sound like an old person giving it the "when I were a lass" sort of speeches' but whatever will they think of next?! )
All it gives me is another bloody fine reason not to have kids!
Sex God
Quote by benrums0n
Read the thread DG.
The press report and the OP are misinformed.
Having read the rest of the thread, it seems there is such a condition so I'm not sure it is entirely misinformed.
Anyway... that's beside the point, my rant remains! :thumbup:
Sex God
Quote by benrums0n
My point is that its not a new thing nor is anybody using it to excuse anti social behaviour other than the childs mother.
A simple web search will show that the term was in widespread use amongst professionals back in the 90s.
Hmmm... it's not looking like there's a lot of point to your point by way of adding to the discussion on the actual topic other than to point out that the OP was misinformed.
Did you have something to contribute other than scoring a point?
Quote by benrums0n
Im not scoring a point at all.
What I try to do is try to balance some of the outrageous prejudice on here and in the media.
Benny I think that everyone here can see that is exactly what you are trying to do.
Bottom line Benny is you ALWAYS seem to find things to dig at, especially where I am concerned, and I fail to notice that whilst you have tons to say about everything, the point I made about YOUR pm to me has been ignored, or come to it....your " flounce ". :shock:
I asked you earlier to move on, but you will not.
So on that basis I will ignore you in this thread, and hopefully you will ignore mine. Though I doubt it as you think you are the superior knowledge here am sure that is called something.
Sex God
Did someone ask for examples of ODD then?! :giggle:
Quote by flower411
I think people deserve respect. The history of your forum posts Kent, indicates to me that you do not. I could ignore your constant hate inspired posts but I prefer to challenge them.
Then may I suggest Benny that you do not send me anymore pm's stating the opposite.
I have more pm's than I can remember from people agreeing with me, but for some strange reason they don't want to say it on the forum.I think I have been there before on this one and am not going there again.
You challenge me as much as you like, but as always you will be wrong.
That is, indeed bizarre !! It`s not the first time that you have claimed people PM you to agree because they don`t want to post their agreement in public. Do you really expect us to believe you ??
I do not care what YOU think at all.
The last time I said this it was Losty who had the courage of his convictions to come forward and say he had pm'd me.
Am suprised you do not remember, as it was YOU that asked that same question last time.....I have a good memory, you onviously do not, and another one that knocks me at every opportunity.
Still bovvered? I think not.
Lets just stick to the title of the thread eh?
From what I can see, there are a few different issues going on here.
1) Does ODD exist? IMO, possibly- look past the headlines. It doesn't just mean kids opposing discipline. It works the other way too. I've seen an inteligent teenager give up on something they loved- just because one of their parents was happy with them doing it.
2) Will people use it as an excuse? Absolutely. I believe ADHD exists- but the label is slapped on all too often for the sake of convenience.
3) Have the papers exaggerated/ scandalised a situation? No idea. I've not read it.
4) Has Kenty done what Kenty does best? Jumped to a conclusion/ onto a bandwagon? Rhetorical.
5) Feral. It's Feral. Not Ferel. And while were at it, your other favourite word is spelt "article."
1) Does ODD exist? IMO, possibly- look past the headlines. It doesn't just mean kids opposing discipline. It works the other way too. I've seen an inteligent teenager give up on something they loved- just because one of their parents was happy with them doing it.
2) Will people use it as an excuse? Absolutely. I believe ADHD exists- but the label is slapped on all too often for the sake of convenience.
3) Have the papers exaggerated/ scandalised a situation? No idea. I've not read it.
4) Has Kenty done what Kenty does best? Jumped to a conclusion/ onto a bandwagon? Rhetorical.
5) Feral. It's Feral. Not Ferel. And while were at it, your other favourite word is spelt "article."
Sex God
Quote by Witchy
5) Feral. It's Feral. Not Ferel. And while were at it, your other favourite word is spelt "article."
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: And yes, before anyone jumps, it does matter.
Quote by kentswingers777
The problem is Kent you always comment without finding out about the subject you have taken to heart.
If you took the trouble to know things before making prejudicial assumptions you wouldnt casue quite so much offence so often. I tir eof pointing you in the right direction since once your prejudice is established you seem incapable of taking on board any new information.
Benny....I did research this " new " illness. In my day it was just called being a little git, but of course nowadays anyone that is ever so slightly off the middle of the road, is labelled with some disorder or another.
Most people just have bad habits but of course people like yourself always see it as something else. Another disorder they think up.
Disorders are just like reading your stars. If I was to read one that is not mine, something in that is always relevant to me. Just like these so called disorders. I can link most of them to me in some way. I can do the opposite to what I am told, or be naughty as a kid or even I think I am superior to some people.
So what disorder do I fall into? I would say most of them in some way.
Trouble is Benny people like yourself that knock me always seem to have an answer, but it is not always a sensible one. Why do people continue to blame others or something, when in reality it is mainly just because the person is naughty, or just purely has been brought up by parent or parents that would not know a parent if it appeared out of their arses.
My opinion is that things like ODD are just an excuse, that goes away from the real issues, which are quite simply no boundaries and bad parents.
And how the hell can you say that "Disorders are just like reading your stars".
In your day there wasnt disorders like ADHD or ASS and the children would have just been classed as naught children. And yet now we can offer these children who have these disorders the help that they really need.
Quote by lois
The problem is Kent you always comment without finding out about the subject you have taken to heart.
If you took the trouble to know things before making prejudicial assumptions you wouldnt casue quite so much offence so often. I tir eof pointing you in the right direction since once your prejudice is established you seem incapable of taking on board any new information.
Benny....I did research this " new " illness. In my day it was just called being a little git, but of course nowadays anyone that is ever so slightly off the middle of the road, is labelled with some disorder or another.
Most people just have bad habits but of course people like yourself always see it as something else. Another disorder they think up.
Disorders are just like reading your stars. If I was to read one that is not mine, something in that is always relevant to me. Just like these so called disorders. I can link most of them to me in some way. I can do the opposite to what I am told, or be naughty as a kid or even I think I am superior to some people.
So what disorder do I fall into? I would say most of them in some way.
Trouble is Benny people like yourself that knock me always seem to have an answer, but it is not always a sensible one. Why do people continue to blame others or something, when in reality it is mainly just because the person is naughty, or just purely has been brought up by parent or parents that would not know a parent if it appeared out of their arses.
My opinion is that things like ODD are just an excuse, that goes away from the real issues, which are quite simply no boundaries and bad parents.
And how the hell can you say that "Disorders are just like reading your stars".
In your day there wasnt disorders like ADHD or ASS and the children would have just been classed as naught children. And yet now we can offer these children who have these disorders the help that they really need.
I thought I made a good comparrison betwen the two, which obviously I did not do well enough.
In my book they still ARE naughty children but nowadays it is labelled with a " disorder ". Are you really saying that these kids are really ill, as these " disorders " are by many labelled an illness.
Could it not be that kids being quite clever now and very good at ducking out of responsibilities, just use it as an excuse to be naughty?
At one of my local schools a couple of years back they deemed it acceptable to " reward " unruly kids with sweeterners IF they behaved in class, and went to school and basically became better kids. The results were very good and bad behaviour was then rewarded with prizes for the best turned around kid.
Well what about the kids that were doing those things already? They got bugger all so, the next batch of naughty kids saw that bad behavour was rewarded with little prezzies but, good behavour was not. That is a great example to good kids I think not.
I am not saying that these " disorders " do not exist for the extremes in bad behavour but.....a child that is just generally naughty is just that....naughty.
Yes it is true " in my day " these things did not exist and yes there were bad kids in my South London tough school that were bad but....it had nothing to do with anything other than the fact they were pushing the boundaries.
Now pushing those same boundaries has brought us all sorts of issues, and yes they do get extra help but, to the detriment of the good kids out there, who just see bad behavour excused and sometimes rewarded, which is not right for the good kids.
This then leads to a spiraling of bad behavour, as the good kids just think it is unfair.
Quote by Witchy
I can see what you're saying Kenty- quite clearly. Just as any non dyslexic can. Dyslexia, you know it, it's that now widley recognised and accepted condition. The one that if you had it as little at 20, 30 years ago- you'd have been labelled as thick.
Yes Witchy that point I do agree with. I have known friends who fell into that bracket.
But let's be honest here every single bad kid out there can now feel it has a " disorder ~" when you and I know that most are just plain naughty.
I actually agreed with that point earlier- when a label is made, it's often misappropriated. Some people will bandy it about as an excuse- it's inevitable.
I fully agree with you that most naughty kids are a product of nurture rather than nature. Be that nurturing poor parenting, or the influence of wider society.
However, my point with the dyslexia goes to show that just because something is "new" it shouldn't automatically be dismissed, should it?
Just because a label may be handed out inappropriately, does it really mean that the condition doesn't exist?
I fully agree with you that most naughty kids are a product of nurture rather than nature. Be that nurturing poor parenting, or the influence of wider society.
However, my point with the dyslexia goes to show that just because something is "new" it shouldn't automatically be dismissed, should it?
Just because a label may be handed out inappropriately, does it really mean that the condition doesn't exist?
Quote by Witchy
I actually agreed with that point earlier- when a label is made, it's often misappropriated. Some people will bandy it about as an excuse- it's inevitable.
I fully agree with you that most naughty kids are a product of nurture rather than nature. Be that nurturing poor parenting, or the influence of wider society.
However, my point with the dyslexia goes to show that just because something is "new" it shouldn't automatically be dismissed, should it?
Just because a label may be handed out inappropriately, does it really mean that the condition doesn't exist?
Not at all Witchy.
Of course these " disorders " exist for some kids but....it labels most nowadays with these titles, when in fact most of them are just plain naughty.
The same as in " my day ".
The trouble is that nowadays good kids see the bad kids get the help and massive support, and they get nothing. That just makes a good kid feel sometimes that being naughty can be a good thing. That then snowballs to a point where those same good kids get labelled and so it goes on, until we have a situation where the bad outweigh the good.
Of course there are extremes in everything, and yes no doubt some kids have mental disorders, but do all naughty kids now fall into this catagory?, just because they misbehave ?
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
I actually agreed with that point earlier- when a label is made, it's often misappropriated. Some people will bandy it about as an excuse- it's inevitable.
I fully agree with you that most naughty kids are a product of nurture rather than nature. Be that nurturing poor parenting, or the influence of wider society.
However, my point with the dyslexia goes to show that just because something is "new" it shouldn't automatically be dismissed, should it?
Just because a label may be handed out inappropriately, does it really mean that the condition doesn't exist?
Not at all Witchy.
Of course these " disorders " exist for some kids but....it labels most nowadays with these titles, when in fact most of them are just plain naughty.
The same as in " my day ".
The trouble is that nowadays good kids see the bad kids get the help and massive support, and they get nothing. That just makes a good kid feel sometimes that being naughty can be a good thing. That then snowballs to a point where those same good kids get labelled and so it goes on, until we have a situation where the bad outweigh the good.
Of course there are extremes in everything, and yes no doubt some kids have mental disorders, but do all naughty kids now fall into this catagory?, just because they misbehave ?
Nah Kenty, "bad" kids don't outnumber the good ones.
Ask any teacher about their class, you will find that the vast majority of children in their classes are normal happy kids, a handful may be problematic, if that.
What does happen is that these children get reported on more and more in the media so it seems as of they are more prevalent and a real menace.
Whenever anything good about children is reported in the press, such as improvement in exam grades, it is always with the proviso "But that is because the test is much easier now..." Why? Because we are not happy with the positive. We don't want good news according to the media. We only want to know how bad things are. And why is that?
Could it be that the media seek to fuel their own politically driven agenda?
What is wrong is that children like this lad from Hull are held up by newspapers as symbols of "all the ills" in society. They are portrayed as being typical of children nowadays, not a-typical. This then makes people believe this is the norm, that there is a problem, that children are wild and dangerous and that the Government is bloody useless. All utter nonsense.
It's sensationalism.
This kid may have an illness, he may be just a vile, obnoxious young child. However he is not representative of the thousands of children across this country. It is that distortion which is the true tragedy. You want to know how to make good kids feel better about themselves? Get rubbish like these stories out the media would be a good starting point, and instead print stories about the good kids are doing.
But then again, that wouldn't promote the political agenda that the paper is pushing would it?
As Witchy said, if he has an illness, we are doing him a great disservice by smacking him across the back of the head and saying don't do it again. Because if he does have this illness, what is he going to do?
Regardless of whether he has an illness or not, he and his parents, need help, not continual punishment that is only likely to serve to fuel his anger more and see him repeat the behaviour still further. You can't beat children into submission anymore, that's called abuse nowadays.
You can try to understand why and change the behaviour. It's time-consuming, frustrating and not guaranteed to work.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
Quote by kentswingers777
Of course there are extremes in everything, and yes no doubt some kids have mental disorders, but do all naughty kids now fall into this catagory?, just because they misbehave ?
The word disorder is used by psychologists to describe the extremes you refer to. It doesnt excuse "naughty children" however one defines that, nor does it excuse the kids who are given the label. The reason the label exists is to try to find out how to stop the anti social behaviour that we dont like when clipping them round the ear doesnt work.
To summarise.
At one extreme ther are no naughty kids, only kids with disorders. At the other extreme there are no such things as disorders only naughty kids. In the middle is the real world where we have a whole range of naughty kids and nice kids and kids who's behaviour is so extreme it might be a good idea to find out why and do something about it. (Im not sure if there is a disorder for kids who are too nice but I suspect there is)
I also ought to mention that ODD is not a defence against criminal prosecution and neither is the adult equivalent.
My problem with the original post and the daily mail article (apart from wondering why this CHILD is in a national paper at all) is that it takes a minority (the kids with the disorder) and makes them out to be taking the piss, having an easy life and being excused and that makes me very cross. The dyslexia example used earlier is very good because had this thread been in the same tone and been about dyslexia the whole community would have been up in arms.
