ODD ( that''s Oppositional Defiance Disorder )

3 Jul 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
I actually agreed with that point earlier- when a label is made, it's often misappropriated. Some people will bandy it about as an excuse- it's inevitable.
I fully agree with you that most naughty kids are a product of nurture rather than nature. Be that nurturing poor parenting, or the influence of wider society.
However, my point with the dyslexia goes to show that just because something is "new" it shouldn't automatically be dismissed, should it?
Just because a label may be handed out inappropriately, does it really mean that the condition doesn't exist?

Not at all Witchy.
Of course these " disorders " exist for some kids but....it labels most nowadays with these titles, when in fact most of them are just plain naughty.
The same as in " my day ".
The trouble is that nowadays good kids see the bad kids get the help and massive support, and they get nothing. That just makes a good kid feel sometimes that being naughty can be a good thing.That then snowballs to a point where those same good kids get labelled and so it goes on, until we have a situation where the bad outweigh the good.
Of course there are extremes in everything, and yes no doubt some kids have mental disorders, but do all naughty kids now fall into this catagory?, just because they misbehave ?
The part I highlighted is what young people have said to me and other staff for years and I part agree with your next sentence. Although they are many reasons why that can happen.
It got to a point that the youth centres in the (small) area I worked in were full of the kids whose behaviour was bad (many were diagnosed with disorders - some were just plain little bugga's) and the good uns were frightened to come in or felt intimidated by them.
It was a hard one to overcome for the youth centres as part of their set governmental targets was to work with this particular group.
For the staff - its stressful when you have a grouping like this under one roof. You have to have eyes in the back of ya head. One club was trashed at least once a month!
We did manage to work with the good uns keeping hold of them was hard work though because of the above. At my project we were lucky enough to have a variety of funding that enabled us to work with a wider group. Enabling us to be proactive rather than reactive to certain area issues.
Yet - some of the hard ones to work with could really shine and achieved a lot if they had the right support an were involved in something that motivated them.
Good on the Gov and local authority for cutting the majority of funding for places like this!! confused

:? :? In a few years time they'll reinvent the wheel again :dry:
Interesting thread Mr K :smile:

3 Jul 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
I can see what you're saying Kenty- quite clearly. Just as any non dyslexic can. Dyslexia, you know it, it's that now widley recognised and accepted condition. The one that if you had it as little at 20, 30 years ago- you'd have been labelled as thick.

3 Jul 2009

Quote by lois
I can see what you're saying Kenty- quite clearly. Just as any non dyslexic can. Dyslexia, you know it, it's that now widley recognised and accepted condition. The one that if you had it as little at 20, 30 years ago- you'd have been labelled as thick.

Yes Witchy that point I do agree with. I have known friends who fell into that bracket.
But let's be honest here every single bad kid out there can now feel it has a " disorder ~" when you and I know that most are just plain naughty.
But some of these children do not get the help they need until it is too late. Government funding is limited and for a child to be assessed for some conditions can take years.
My son has autism spectrum Disorder and it was picked up when he was at pre-school, now a year he will be getting his final assessment at the end of July for proper confirmation of his condition. However a child in my daughter class who is 10 has been "classed" as a naught child has been on a waiting list for 3 years to be assessed for autism.
And a few weeks ago on one of those day time shows a 19 year who was classed as Britains naughties child at the age of 5 years old has just had it confirmed he has ADHD.
If the Government pulled their finger out and gave more funding then perhaps we wouldnt have so many children who seem to have missed out on getting the help they need.
There lies a massive social problem.
The money for everything is just not available, so somethings have to suffer. That is not a good thing obviously if you have a child that does need that help.
There as always are never easy answers. Not enough money and if there was, then not enough people to help. Catch 22 I think.
Kids do get much more help than when I was at school, and the ammount of kids that I have heard of through mrs777's kids that are or have been on " anger management schemes " you would not believe.
Society in general has to bear a big brunt of this. Most kids want the latest designer goodies and a lot of parents just cannot afford them. So the " no " word has to be used and knowing what I have seen there lies where the child gets angry. Kids today just do not like that word.
It as Anais has said, must be a nightmare trying to balance between good kids and bad ones. Usually though not always, bad kids come from homes that simply do not give a damn.
Yes there are disorders but not every child belongs to one purely because they are little sods.
Good parenting with boundaries is the answer in many cases.

4 Jul 2009

I don't think that there's anything wrong with me so I must have Deficiency Deficient Disorder.

6 Jul 2009

According to Wiki it does exist.
When the media start printing NEWS instead of VIEWS that might help people who read that trash gain more perspective.
3 years for an assessment?!?! I didn't know it was taking that long :cry:
My Sister's son has adhd and was in fact diagnosed in primary school. She however did not want him labelled so did not go on and start with the special support that they could have given him and also did not tell him that he had been given this diagnosis. He obviously has not used it as an excuse to be naughty as he didn't know he had it. Now it is too late for the support and both she and he regret her decision.
There is an idea that this may well run in families, the autism spectrum thing. My cousin is autistic, my nephew I have just told you about and I am awaiting further information on my daughter (who is not running amok and being ferel by the way) who has issues that she needs help with.
It makes me feel sick when I read in here about OTHER PEOPLE'S kids being refered to as ferel thugs just because of things printed for sensationalism in the media.
I say if you want to post about stuff...make it stuff you KNOW about so you have a little experience to quote from instead of all the crap you're being forced to read in the rags.

6 Jul 2009

Quote by Firelizard
According to Wiki it does exist.
When the media start printing NEWS instead of VIEWS that might help people who read that trash gain more perspective.
3 years for an assessment?!?! I didn't know it was taking that long :cry:
My Sister's son has adhd and was in fact diagnosed in primary school. She however did not want him labelled so did not go on and start with the special support that they could have given him and also did not tell him that he had been given this diagnosis. He obviously has not used it as an excuse to be naughty as he didn't know he had it. Now it is too late for the support and both she and he regret her decision.
There is an idea that this may well run in families, the autism spectrum thing. My cousin is autistic, my nephew I have just told you about and I am awaiting further information on my daughter (who is not running amok and being ferel by the way) who has issues that she needs help with.
It makes me feel sick when I read in here about OTHER PEOPLE'S kids being refered to as ferel thugs just because of things printed for sensationalism in the media.
I say if you want to post about stuff...make it stuff you KNOW about so you have a little experience to quote from instead of all the crap you're being forced to read in the rags.

It annoys me greatly when people bury their heads in the sand, just because they either cannot or will not face the hard facts.
Do you or others never read actual Government reports on crime, especially teenage crime?
I get sick and tired of people blaming everything on the media or the newspapers.
Ya know a lot of it is true. Believe it.
Btw.....there are ferel thugs out there. Check ya local housing estate after 9 at night.
Liberalism and what it represents clouds peoples judgements, to such a degree that some people believe all the rubbish the elected tree huggers say. Well sorry I do not.

Of course ferel kids and youth crime do not exist do they? A figment of peoples imaginations. Oh well back to me newspaper I guess. wink

6 Jul 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
According to Wiki it does exist.
When the media start printing NEWS instead of VIEWS that might help people who read that trash gain more perspective.
3 years for an assessment?!?! I didn't know it was taking that long :cry:
My Sister's son has adhd and was in fact diagnosed in primary school. She however did not want him labelled so did not go on and start with the special support that they could have given him and also did not tell him that he had been given this diagnosis. He obviously has not used it as an excuse to be naughty as he didn't know he had it. Now it is too late for the support and both she and he regret her decision.
There is an idea that this may well run in families, the autism spectrum thing. My cousin is autistic, my nephew I have just told you about and I am awaiting further information on my daughter (who is not running amok and being ferel by the way) who has issues that she needs help with.
It makes me feel sick when I read in here about OTHER PEOPLE'S kids being refered to as ferel thugs just because of things printed for sensationalism in the media.
I say if you want to post about stuff...make it stuff you KNOW about so you have a little experience to quote from instead of all the crap you're being forced to read in the rags.

But Mr K, examine the article again. What are the "hard facts"?
The hard facts I can see are that there is one young lad in Hull who is being a right little buggerlugs. However there may be a reason for this, a disorder, or there may not as some people question whether this disorder exists at all.
That's it.
However from that we have extrapolated that the streets are teeming with wild feral (not Will Ferrell) youths who are basically ransacking towns and cities the length and breadth of the country. That after 9pm you can't walk the streets for fear of being accosted by hoards of young thugs. This is the "view" part Firelizards is on about and is rightly questioning, that and the notion that the child is not ill at all, but that it is just a convenient excuse for the mother to pass off her childs behaviour as someone else's problem and nothing to do with her.
You say go on any housing estate after 9pm, I am sure a great many people do, continue to do and do so in complete safety. I have on a great many occasions. I lived on one for nearly 20 years.
What does make me angry is the very reason many children do behave like this is to bring any form of attention, good or bad, upon themselves. So what do the press give them? A page to themselves in a national newspaper! If an ASBO is a badge of dishonour then surely Page 5 of the Sun, Star or Mail is worth ten times that? You can bet your backside that the peers of misbehaving Michael are going to be well impressed that he's in the Mail for his obnoxious actions. It'll be hilarious for them and inspire a whole new output of vile behaviour.
Then think of why the article was written Mr K. Who was it written for? The child and mother to highlight their plight? Nope. Not how it was written, it merely berates them. To inform the world of this Earth shatteringly vital news? Call me daft, but I think most towns and cities have their own problems without being alerted to more. It was written so the vast majority of right wing Mail readership can tut, shake their heads while getting a blue rinse and then moan about how society has gone to the dogs under this Labour government. (Just don't mention Brixton and Toxteth in the 1980's, or the Miners strike, or indeed James Bulger)
The reason it was written was simply to sensationalise and inflame. It isn't a news article, it is an inflammatory one. It takes one fact "A child in Hull is misbehaving" and from that portrays a Britain that is living under siege from a wave of crime-driven youths who have claimed the streets from under us because mainly of political failings in government. This is mythology, it requires no evidence, just abeyance from a lazy readership, who find it fits in with their somewhat blinkered view of the world.
Don't get me wrong Mr K, there are kids and teenagers out there who are absolutely vile and who need to be held to account for what they do, rather than treated with kid gloves. Their parents need a kick up the arse too. There are also many who are misbehaving for reasons that are not the strictly fault of the child. Illness, a poor home life for example. It is they who need help, not vilification by the masses and glorification in a scandal-mag.
You remove the badge of honour of appearing in the newspaper for being a little sh*t, then you remove one of the reasons to do it. You report good stories about kids doing well and achieving, you can create role models and change perceptions. It's a slow process, it's bloody hard work (and my hat is off to ANYONE involved in it) but the press in this country has no interest in fostering that. They want to sell papers, make money and pander to the political leanings of their owners regardless of what they do or say affects their readers and the wider community.
In essence, many newspapers are a national disgrace far more so, than the subjects of the stories they bring to us.
I can see why you get frustrated Mr K, that when some little toe-rag misbehaves, every bleeding heart liberal likes to leap to his defence. But could it not be that people on here feel it is better to judge every case individually, rather than simply take one small incident and then generalise across the whole population? Which is what the newspapers love to do.
Now this lad in Hull, he needs to be looked at to see if he does have this illness. If he does, then give him the treatment and support necessary to help manage the illness at home and in school. If he doesn't, then give him and his parents the support and motivation to resolve his problem behaviour in other ways.
Compare that with the sicko's who were responsible for the death of Rhys Jones, who not only committed the act, tried to cover it up, lied for each other, but then proceeded to find the entire process of trial in court hilarious, often laughing or swearing contemptibly in the face of witnesses and grieving relatives. Now, in circumstances like that, life to me, means life. No chance of parole, throw away the key and let him rot. Same with James Bulgers killers.
Many kids can be helped to achieve, if people invest the time and effort and don't condemn them to the wastebin of life with the rest of these scumbags. All you do, if you do that, is create a bigger problem.
I don't think anyone would reasonably argue that some kids are vile and need to be made to account for their deeds. It just isn't as many as the gutter press would like you to believe. It's worth remembering that children are a product of nature and nurture. Parents and society. If they are failing then it is not automatically the parents fault, in some cases there may be an illness, or in some cases it may well be societies fault.
But we don't like to look at ourselves for the blame do we? So the press will happily keep pointing the finger in any direction, other than their own.

6 Jul 2009

Yes Res...your points are valid.
My main gripe here is that the bloody lefty Liberals ALWAYS have an excuse for this BUT always use the same old bollox as an excuse.
They call it ODD now as an excuse to try and catagorise everything. This child does not have this. It is a new wave excuse to try and justify little shits and their behavour.
The Mother is a disgrace and then trys to palm her failings off as some sort of medical thingy.
She wails " he does not need punishment, he needs medical help ". Sorry that is a old cop out and an excuse to try and justify his behavour and her lack of parenting skills.
The bleeding heart Liberals are oh so quick to jump on this bandwagon and then blame the press for everything, when in effect it is THIER attitudes over many years that have helped to create this " don't give a toss society ".
I blame the weak Liberals and they blame the press. I think at times it can be a bit of both but....Is this kind of behaviour really such in the minority that it is not worth reporting?
Ask any teacher how many kids are little shits in school, whilst it is certainly NOT the majority, there are a few more than the isolated one or two.
ODD? It exists only in the minds of the people, who choose to make an excuse, instead of just addressing the real reasons, that the child for whatever reason is just pure and simple....a little shit.

6 Jul 2009

:cry: I have just put the phone down after a convo with my son who is 21. He has had his ups and downs through his teenage years and is coming out the other side a mature, intelligent person (if a little nuts at times) I'm proud of him anyway.
He has just told me about a "ferel thug" he was just playing battleships with 4 days ago. His mother died when he was young and his father for whatever reason buggered off and left him and his brother to fend for themselves. That lad has had a less than ideal life.
He threw himself in front of a bus yesterday. So thats one less we'll all have to worry about eh?
Oh and by the way..I grew up on a council estate 22 floors up in a tower block in the East End of London. I've also lived on many housing estates and been out after 9pm the only time in my life I had cause for concern was when a man much much older than myself tried to force himself on me in a lift.
I know "some" estates are rough and I know "some" kids are a pain and go way over the top of just messing about so then lets give them something to do and something to be interested in.
Liberalism means nothing to me Kenty...it's politics which automatically means bollox in my mind. I make my mind up from the experiences I live and the things that I see with my own eyes, not what I'm told whilst sitting in my comfy armchair passing judgement on everyone else.
I'm not sorry about slagging off the media one little bit. It's just a huge money making machine that cares nothing for the Country it reports on as long as it keeps paying up.

6 Jul 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Yes Res...your points are valid.
My main gripe here is that the bloody lefty Liberals ALWAYS have an excuse for this BUT always use the same old bollox as an excuse.
They call it ODD now as an excuse to try and catagorise everything. This child does not have this. It is a new wave excuse to try and justify little shits and their behavour.
The Mother is a disgrace and then trys to palm her failings off as some sort of medical thingy.
She wails " he does not need punishment, he needs medical help ". Sorry that is a old cop out and an excuse to try and justify his behavour and her lack of parenting skills.
The bleeding heart Liberals are oh so quick to jump on this bandwagon and then blame the press for everything, when in effect it is THIER attitudes over many years that have helped to create this " don't give a toss society ".
I blame the weak Liberals and they blame the press. I think at times it can be a bit of both but....Is this kind of behaviour really such in the minority that it is not worth reporting?
Ask any teacher how many kids are little shits in school, whilst it is certainly NOT the majority, there are a few more than the isolated one or two.
ODD? It exists only in the minds of the people, who choose to make an excuse, instead of just addressing the real reasons, that the child for whatever reason is just pure and simple....a little shit.

But Mr K, that is your opinion and it is, as always, tainted with the view that "lefty liberalism" is the root cause.
It isn't a fact. Many medical people, psychologists as well as people on here would disagree regardless of their political persuasion. I'm no lefty liberal, I loathe all politicians equally.
You are of course free to choose what you believe, but that does not make it fact. That childs behaviour has been appalling behaving as a little shit would, as you said. However that doesn't mean we should give up on him, tar and feather him and condemn him to a life of waste because we couldn't be arsed to find out what his problem was. Nor does it mean that powder-puff "lefty liberalism" is the reason for it.
Like Firelizard, I don't take my views on any issue from the media, as a long long time ago, I think I was three, I realised that they are only out for themselves. Experience is what counts and sharing that with others. We all have different experiences and different views. That is what makes a society.
It is when one view tries to dominate, regardless of others or the facts, that problems tend to occur.
Every child's problems can't be solved by a quick slap around the ear and being controlled fastidiously by their parents. There are too many other influences on children these days for that to begin to work. It may solve a problem or two, but will create a whole load of others.
You win a child by earning their respect and engaging their interests, promoting their achievements, in the same way you would an adult. Not by beating them into submission, or holding them up for national ridicule, making them feel a failure and worthless unless they toe the line as prescribed by the Daily Mail/Star/Sun/Mirror etc.
Thing is Kenty, I understand your frustration, I see stories like this and it makes me sigh. However it's never as cut and dried as the press want to make it. I hope you will at least consider that. A lot of children are failed by their parents, society and the system we have in place to care for them. We have also created a society where open rebellion, two fingers to authority, violence, gang mentality and the notion of having to "defend" oneself is on the increase.
Now, where have we seen all that reported of late? It's youth culture now, of course it is, but it is the media that helps define that culture. If we hadn't seen the misogynistic, homophobic, violent videos, violent reports of gang clashes, "cool" videos posted of people being happy slapped etc and then them all reported on time and time again, would they have had the same influence?
Think of the "happy slapping" incident. One kid does something daft like this, puts it on You Tube. No great fuss. Had the video been removed and the offenders effectively sanctioned by their parents or authority, that would have been the end of it. But then a news outlet gets hold of it, it is front page news for days on end. Many kids who see this think "Ah! This is funny and a chance to cause trouble" and it spreads, suddenly we are gripped in a "happy slapping" pandemic... And who created it?
Seriously Kenty, spend a week without the news on TV, You tube or any of your daily papers. Most of the time the real world isn't really as bad as they'd like you to believe. There are grotbags, horrors, monkeys and worse, but there are a damn sight more good kids whose voices and opinions we don't hear, who make a valid contribution. Whatsmore with a bit of effort with many of the "troubled" others, their numbers could easily swell.
The problem with this, it is too damned hard for some who want a quick fix and to find a scapegoat. Essentially complex problems seldom have inordinately simplistic answers.

6 Jul 2009

I worked in a place that the police and local residents called *the front line* its was bluddy rough, hard and stressful to be in day in, day out! Luckily I went home at night for a few hours peace....for the residents, they lived with it 24/7.
I eventually became complacent with the crime, the violence and the everyday abuse we got as workers (we were paid well for it so young people told us). If it was a quiet day outside my window - something was up! You made sure when you left the office you had ya wits about you!
Little kids roamed the streets late night - tough as old boots some of them and damn scary sometimes even at 6 yrs old. Gangs made there home in any hangout they could, even forcing themselves into our premises quite a number of times. Why? Because it was raining or cold! Other gangs (some adult) from outside the city visited to deliver just punishment - maybe a shooting, a machete attack or perhaps a good old street fight!
Yet, in what seemed like a war zone at times (I haven't even mentioned some of the actions of adults)they were bunches of young people who did or didn't go to school, were victims of their community, or had previously offended, who achieved and experienced more than some adults will in their lifetime.
Why? Because they were people within that community who believed in them, supported and advised, listened to them, gave them opportunities, gave them second chances, were positive role models, patted them on the back when they did achieve and best of all made it news and film worthy when they did - turning it into an event that people wanted to come and see for themselves and give support.
They always will be the ones who you cant help turn their lives around and will end up in prison or dead. Sometimes you had to move onto the ones who wanted and needed support to do that - even tho it was with sadness that that decision was made..it just wasn't the right time for them.
Creating change in any community is a lengthy process and some of the work you see happening in communities now - the results will now show until at least 5 plus years later... you might not even see how those young people or adults have changed and doing something positive in their lives as you cant put it in hard figures.
And that is the problem with funding available - the funders want hard figures now not later, they want value for money, they want things happening now and you have to tell them how they are going to get it - now!! You can with some things but so much of it is unseen and hard to collect....
They must be such a paper mountain somewhere in a little government office!

8 Jul 2009

Oh My F*****g God :shock:
I have read some bollox in my life but this thread really does take the biscuit.
FFS people can we all just get real a minute here?
OK OK who the fk am I to make such a statement? Ok Iâ€™ll tell you.
For one, Iâ€™m the father of three sons, all grown up now.
For two, I have worked as a tutor in a â€œlast chance hotelâ€ non Council run childrenâ€™s home for young offenders, Iâ€™m an ex Prison Officer, and used to be a youth supervisor in the probation service.
For three, I have been whiteness to all kinds of so called â€˜disordersâ€™ and have had to deal with them face on. ( I hasten to add, that I myself have been diagnosed with â€˜disordersâ€™ so please donâ€™t misunderstand my stance here).
OK enough of the self justification, just seems like this thread requires it.
In my working and private life I have encountered almost every form of misbehaviour you could possibly imagine. From the mischievous right down to the criminal insane. I can quite honestly put my hand to my heart and say that in at least 90% of the cases I have had to deal with, the lack of â€˜properâ€™ parental control has been the major contributory factor, no question.
Now, before you all go off half cocked, no I do not blame most of the parents, parents these days are under so many constraints Iâ€™m actually surprised that anyone still wants to be a mum or a dad. I actually found many many cases where the kids sneered at any parental control with the threat â€œtouch me and Iâ€™ll have you arrestedâ€ :shock:
Bollox, beat the little bastards within an inch of their lives I say, see how quickly all these imaginary â€˜syndromesâ€™ disappear and we get back to a civilised society. Children need boundaries, they need praise when they have done well, and they need punishment when they have done wrong. To me as a front line worker it has been proven time and time again that the â€œall carrot and no stickâ€ system simply does not work with some kids, they can be wilful little fuckers with no respect for anything but the rod, historically that has always been the way and in my opinion, always will be.
Now before you all go running off to your nearest CPA here, let me reiterate that Iâ€™m talking about the worst offenders here, not your run of the mill normal child, having said all I have, as a father of three sons, all of whom have had their fair share of problems, they have all grown up into respectable and valued members of society, I have to say that I have only ever needed to raise my hand twice in 30 years so please donâ€™t think Iâ€™m some Victorian in favour of child abuse.
Yes, there is bad parenting, bad parenting (imo) is not setting boundaries, not giving out deserved praises or punishments, not giving your child borders or rules to live by. Itâ€™s laziness in the extreme and deserves punishment for the parent in itself. For some parents, fighting the tantrums, dealing out the punishment when its required is just too much to be bothered with. Well if thatâ€™s the case, donâ€™t be a f*****g parent. rolleyes

It brings responsibilities to your kids, and to society that maybe you are just not strong enough to handle? No shame in that, some can, some canâ€™t. The shame comes in having them anyway and expecting society to pick up the pieces just because you are not strong enough to handle the justice part yourself.
Whenever you read crap like this in the papers, have a good look in the mirror and ask yourself, â€œDid I really get it right? Or was I just a little shit who passed my hatred for authority on to my kids?â€
My god the 60â€™s 70â€™s generation still have so much to answer for.
bolt

now where did I put that old helmet :bolt:

8 Jul 2009

Pete....a brilliant insight from somebody that knows.
Most of us know what you say is true, but the Liberals are always there to meter out the excuses. Excuse for this and excuses for that.
My youngest Daughter has a friend who started work helping younsters that had got into trouble. These kids were forced into attending this course, or go to prison. So most of them did not want to be there, so that is not a good start.
I said to her at the time that most would be shits, but she had just graduated fron University and still a bit green around the ears. She has the typical lefty approach and her attitude was different from mine.
Well she lasted three months there, actually it was less than that. She realised that these " young offenders ",were just like I said....little shits with no respect and were only there as an alternative to prison.
How her attitude has now changed and her eyes have been firmly left open by this.
Kids like the one highlighted don't have anything wrong with them other than in most cases, wanker parents, or in most cases....parent. The Father has long since fucked off into the distance to start another brood with another woman, who no doubt has x ammount of kids already.
They need to stop pussy footing around the issue by making limp lefty excuses, and deal with the real issues, which are usually tosser parents who cannot control their kids, and those kids know it and then just become worse.
My own Sister falls into this wanker parent catagory. She does not know how to say no to her kids and her son who is now 14, treats her like shit and only last April threatened to hit her which left my Sister scared of him, as in her words " he is a big lad now ".
Maybe had she of given him some proper boundaries and told him the no word more often things may well of been different. Funnily enough he never gives me any bollox as he knows I would not tolerate it, and he is always polite when I go around there.
A very good post Pete, but don't expect too many to agree with you.

8 Jul 2009

I agree there is a problem with parenting. I agree there is a cross section of society that are highly problematic and that the root cause of that can, in many cases,be attributed to poor parenting.
I take issue with the notion that the simple answer to rectify this is to beat children on a regular basis.
Why not lock them up in cages at home? Send them to work up chimneys too?
Why is it a "lefty" problem Mr K? Political persuasion has nothing to do with this issue. When your good chum Mr C takes over at number 10, do you think these problems are going to magically disappear.
What are they going to do? Reintroduce Corporal punishment in schools and deliver a free baseball bat to each home complete with legal indemnity should any local authority wish to prosecute?
Once again Mr K, Pete may well have credentials working with many of the really poorly behaved children and many of whom have real problems and show no inclination to improve. But because his idea of "beat the little shits until they behave" fits in with your idea, he is suddenly "in the know?" What nonsense. Pete's opinions are fine. he has experience of a great many issues I am sure. However I disagree that beating children will answer the problem.
"It worked in the past..." Yes, so did stoning, crucifixion and being flayed alive. Shall we bring these back too?
As for getting a grip, I see people having opinions, churlish as it is for some to understand, they are equally valid regardless of where you've worked, who with and for how long. Experience doesn't give you the definitive say on what is right and wrong. It informs your opinion only and is influence by your own view and experiences.
That does not make it right and does not lessen anyone elses opinions on the matter.
I fully agree that parenting skills are on the sharp decline and that parents are to blame for the mess.
Why the hell then punish and beat the children?

8 Jul 2009

Res as has already been said...punish people when they have done wrong, and praise and reward them when things are done right.
Is it just a coincidence that since corporal punishment was abolished from schools, there is no punishment available now? Hence no fear at all.
Kids of today KNOW their rights but....when I was a kid there were no rights. If you did not behave at school you would be punished, be it by the cane or slipper or detention. It was a fact that kids were scared of their teachers then but....there is a fine line between fear and respect. Respect is what is lacking today and that my friend is where the lefty's have doen their job.
Kids would wail " touch me and I will call the police ". :shock: and I know what that means. The police will be knocking on your door quicker than you can say " bollox ".
Respect has to be earned the same as trust has too. The lefty's are forever telling people their rights especially kids. I agree that beating kids is not the answer, I have only ever smacked my two kids a couple of times but.....nowadays you CAN smack a child but only if you do not leave a red mark. How the heck does that work? It is then not a smack but a tap and what does that do?
Sorry but the lefty's liberal approach has caused much of this problem, a bit like teachers have left the proffession in droves because they are sick and tired of meddling people and kids that just do not care.
IF you give someone no boundaries and no punishments then where do we go? I would not break into someones house or stab someone or many other things, because I would be fearful of getting caught. But a lot of kids nowadays do not have that fear. Their attitudes sometimes prove they have no fear or respect for society.
Typical example of todays punishments are the Bulger killers. Two ferel murderers who had the social services bend over backwards for them, even though they murdered a young child. Their punishment was a joke and even now are laughing at the fact their identities can never be revealed. Plus I bet they had one to one teaching in wherever they were held. Other kids see that kind of thing and it does not bode well for kids who carry out further crimes like this.
Think the subject of disorders and their excistance are at best a means of labelling bad kids who have zero respect for their parents or their teachers or the Police or authority in general. How we change that outlook I do not know but Mr C may well do something regarding the crap Human rights laws which have also fuelled this bollox.

8 Jul 2009

Quote by Firelizard
:cry: I have just put the phone down after a convo with my son who is 21. He has had his ups and downs through his teenage years and is coming out the other side a mature, intelligent person (if a little nuts at times) I'm proud of him anyway.
He has just told me about a "ferel thug" he was just playing battleships with 4 days ago. His mother died when he was young and his father for whatever reason buggered off and left him and his brother to fend for themselves. That lad has had a less than ideal life.
He threw himself in front of a bus yesterday. So thats one less we'll all have to worry about eh?
Oh and by the way..I grew up on a council estate 22 floors up in a tower block in the East End of London. I've also lived on many housing estates and been out after 9pm the only time in my life I had cause for concern was when a man much much older than myself tried to force himself on me in a lift.
I know "some" estates are rough and I know "some" kids are a pain and go way over the top of just messing about so then lets give them something to do and something to be interested in.
Liberalism means nothing to me Kenty...it's politics which automatically means bollox in my mind. I make my mind up from the experiences I live and the things that I see with my own eyes, not what I'm told whilst sitting in my comfy armchair passing judgement on everyone else.
I'm not sorry about slagging off the media one little bit. It's just a huge money making machine that cares nothing for the Country it reports on as long as it keeps paying up.

An excellent post, short and concise.
We live in a world where billions of pounds, dollars, and Euros are being spent killing people who refuse to be "democratic". Politicians are the biggest bunch of hypocrites that ever crawled the earth. If an individual has the ability to think outside the box he or she is branded a lunatic, this is so that the brainwashed masses can dismiss them and continue towing the line. The press are vermin who can hound a princess to death and even decide which political party wins at election time.
Swinging is a good way to escape the reality of a world that truly stinks.