Politics of envy or good sense?

27 Jan 2012

Quote by Max777

I remember discussing this with the then Tory chancellor. He held views similar to your own. Nice fella mind. He also didn't like the idea of removing income tax altogether in favour of purchase taxes.
I fundamentally believe that the burden of taxes should fall fairly. I think it is fair that those with the most to spend on anything other than the necessities of life pay the most tax.

That's probably because he knew it wouldn't work Ben. We already have a sales tax and any increase in its rate is always met with the argument that it has a more detrimental affect on the poorer in society.
What would the rate of VAT have to be to fully replace Income Tax?
Max/Ben,
Was watching some politico spouting on earlier around local Sales Tax as a replacement for centrally distributed local government funding, so that that way Income Tax could be significantly reduced.
When some one pointed out the situation in Northern Ireland with 'cross-border' shopping, the point was lost on him completely.
Bring it on and watch armageddon in the high streets as people in one town/borough/council area drive a few miles and shop 'next door', granted it would be fun to see Chris Huhne's reaction when CO2 goes up.
Just have to wonder where some of the 'Westminster village' come from, especially as slightly later there was another one saying that fundamentally the Poll Tax was fair and it just wasn't 'sold' right to the public.

27 Jan 2012

Quote by HnS
Just have to wonder where some of the 'Westminster village' come from, especially as slightly later there was another one saying that fundamentally the Poll Tax was fair and it just wasn't 'sold' right to the public.

The poll Tax was fair

27 Jan 2012

Never really been much in favour of local taxation either. I hold the view that local authorities just end up doing the less sexy jobs that central government dont want to sully their hands with. But aye H I can see that being a bit of a laff. Mind you if the Scots go indy we might find Northumbrian's doing border s/hopping.
I can see what you mean max in terms of purchase taxes hitting the poor yet it cannot be beyond the wit of man to devise a system that doesn't tax essential goods n services, much as VAT tries to.

28 Jan 2012

Quote by Rogue_trader
I don't fight Bluefish...I'm a lover not a fighter
But I'll exchange a bit of banter now and then if the opponent is worthy of such...
I did notice how quickly the banter became personal...with suggestions of having to seek help due to alleged mental impairment, lol.
If that's the best that ones opponents can come up with then, the worthiness of any retort is sadly lost.
I shall continue to sit up this here hill and survey my land below and the fluffy bunnies in the
field...

Oh damn and there was me hoping a little light hearted ribbing would draw you out
So to those fallacious assumptions......

Quote by Rogue_trader
So the harder you work the more you earn....

you mention in a later post that you believe the majority of people to be on some kind of incentivised pay....I would dearly love to see your evidence for this.... a large proportion of working people in this country are in low paid (often part time ) jobs their only incentive being that if they don't work they don't get related pay and bonuses are (on the whole) the preserve of certain professions,and even then for the most part only for those above a certain level

Quote by Rogue_trader
the ones who earn the most spend the most thereby keeping people employed!

This may well be true in the short term ... but once those yachts and mansions are bought??... when these limited revenue streams are exhausted what's left ??? all those expensive designer clothes...from Paris and Milan ?? those holidays in the sun??? not in this country,Fine wines and spirits ,from France .... sounds like good news for our continental friends.

Quote by Rogue_trader
The country would be better off and you (Joe public) wouldn't get unfairly penalized for being a high earner!

Nobody is 'punished' for being a high earner ,either unfairly or otherwise

Quote by Rogue_trader
In fact it would attract more businessmen to the ...creating more jobs and more wealth....everyone ones a winner baby!!

I doubt we'd tempt many from the Caymans,and of those few I suspect most would be taking advantage of any left over loopholes in our tax not many and those in the fields of banking and accounting ... something I think we've got more than enough of already.... soooo only a small number of winners and those pissing down the backs of hard working ordinary average earners ..... loving your vision of a fairer society ... keep up the good work,we'll have a revolution before you can say 'more champers vassal'

28 Jan 2012

whatever your day job is, keep doing it. loon

some peeple are not happy even with a minimum wage introduced to help protect the low wage earners out there. innocent

as i have pointed out already and did not get an answer to previusly, these " peeple " that are on low paid work also get tax credits or childrens tax credits, and in most cases BOTH. it is an additional amount of money on top of the wages of a low earner.
this applies to anyone who earns as a household up to 43 thousand pounds a year. why do peeple such as yourself always fail to mention the additional monies peeple get who are on low wages?
you need to find out how much extra a family household on say a year gets who have two children as well. i think even you would be amazed as to the extra amount. i would tell you myself but will let you do a search and see how good you are with google. when using figures to calculate someones earnings it is always best to give the whole story, and not just bits of that story. it makes no sense otherwise :thumbup:
would you like the link that i supplied ben with who also failed to mention the working tax credits a person would get who is on a low wage confused

28 Jan 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
whatever your day job is, keep doing it.
some peeple are not happy even with a minimum wage introduced to help protect the low wage earners out there.
as i have pointed out already and did not get an answer to previusly, these " peeple " that are on low paid work also get tax credits or childrens tax credits, and in most cases BOTH. it is an additional amount of money on top of the wages of a low earner.
this applies to anyone who earns as a household up to 43 thousand pounds a year. why do peeple such as yourself always fail to mention the additional monies peeple get who are on low wages?
you need to find out how much extra a family household on say a year gets who have two children as well. i think even you would be amazed as to the extra amount. i would tell you myself but will let you do a search and see how good you are with google. when using figures to calculate someones earnings it is always best to give the whole story, and not just bits of that story. it makes no sense otherwise :thumbup:
would you like the link that i supplied ben with who also failed to mention the working tax credits a person would get who is on a low wage :

Not everyone on low wages gets tax credits,not everyone on low wages has children,why is it up to the nation to support those employers who will not pay their employees a living wage ?? as you say it's a good idea to look at the whole picture

28 Jan 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Not everyone on low wages gets tax credits,not everyone on low wages has children,why is it up to the nation to support those employers who will not pay their employees a living wage ??

:thumbup: i like the scaremongering tactic mr staggers, highly not recommend :thumbup:
you see that is why i asked if you wanted the link :doh:
you look up who is entitled to working tax credits. er i think peeple who are working on low wages :doh:. also peeple would obviusly get more money if they had children, and of course you are correct that not everyone on low wages has children, but they still get working tax credits.
i know it is very difficult for someone like yourself who has this perfect ideology of what society should be like, but had you ever ( well everyone else has )thought that an employer just cannot pay anymore than the minimum wage? had you also at anytime thought about the fact that every employer who genuinely can only pay that low wage to pay anymore would force them out of business? then what? no business owner paying tax, and then no employee being paid. what circle of madness would that lead us into?
stop looking at every employer being a scrooge and look at it with the same eyes that i have ( open ones ) and look at the consequences of higher wages from employers. not every employer is a money grabbing arsehole. maybe your past and present employers are, which is why you look at things this way dunno

there are many fantastic employers who pay low wages simply because that is all they can afford, and the other option is to just not employ anyone :notes::notes:

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
as you say it's a good idea to look at the whole picture

maybe to practise what one preaches might be a jolly good starting point in debate :dunno:

28 Jan 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
This may well be true in the short term ... but once those yachts and mansions are bought??... when these limited revenue streams are exhausted what's left ??? all those expensive designer clothes...from Paris and Milan ?? those holidays in the sun??? not in this country,Fine wines and spirits ,from France .... sounds like good news for our continental friends.

Pleased to see that you are in agreement that a sales tax instead of income tax wouldn't work.

28 Jan 2012

Quote by Max777

This may well be true in the short term ... but once those yachts and mansions are bought??... when these limited revenue streams are exhausted what's left ??? all those expensive designer clothes...from Paris and Milan ?? those holidays in the sun??? not in this country,Fine wines and spirits ,from France .... sounds like good news for our continental friends.

Pleased to see that you are in agreement that a sales tax instead of income tax wouldn't work.
I do agree Max .... I'm in two minds about a variable rate sales tax though (I know nobody mentioned it ,just thought I'd throw it into the mix lol

)

28 Jan 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB

This may well be true in the short term ... but once those yachts and mansions are bought??... when these limited revenue streams are exhausted what's left ??? all those expensive designer clothes...from Paris and Milan ?? those holidays in the sun??? not in this country,Fine wines and spirits ,from France .... sounds like good news for our continental friends.

)
You mean one where you would have to produce your P60 to the shop assistant in order that she could ascertain which button to press on the till?

28 Jan 2012

Quote by starlightcouple

Not everyone on low wages gets tax credits,not everyone on low wages has children,why is it up to the nation to support those employers who will not pay their employees a living wage ??

:thumbup: i like the scaremongering tactic mr staggers, highly not recommend :thumbup:Scaremongering ???
you see that is why i asked if you wanted the link :doh:
you look up who is entitled to working tax credits. er i think peeple who are working on low wages :doh:. also peeple would obviusly get more money if they had children, and of course you are correct that not everyone on low wages has children, but they still get working tax credits.
Really ?? .... Gosh I must re-apply After all I'm in receipt of much less than the average wage I must be eligible
i know it is very difficult for someone like yourself who has this perfect ideology of what society should be like, but had you ever ( well everyone else has )thought that an employer just cannot pay anymore than the minimum wage? had you also at anytime thought about the fact that every employer who genuinely can only pay that low wage to pay anymore would force them out of business? then what? no business owner paying tax, and then no employee being paid. what circle of madness would that lead us into?
I had actually. It's nice to see you supporting the payment of benefits...makes a pleasant change
stop looking at every employer being a scrooge and look at it with the same eyes that i have ( open ones ) and look at the consequences of higher wages from employers. not every employer is a money grabbing arsehole. maybe your past and present employers are, which is why you look at things this way dunno

Actually you'll be surprised to learn that I have a very good relationship with my current employer..and that any problems I may or may not have had in previous jobs haven't (on the whole) been with my employer
there are many fantastic employers who pay low wages simply because that is all they can afford, and the other option is to just not employ anyone :notes::notes:
Yes and there are those who exploit the system in order to pay lower wages...have you never seen the adverts ?? you know those that advertise a certain wage with the addendum that this can be increased with tax credits .. I have. Either way not an ideal state of affairs eh?

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
as you say it's a good idea to look at the whole picture

maybe to practise what one preaches might be a jolly good starting point in debate :dunno:

28 Jan 2012

Quote by Max777

This may well be true in the short term ... but once those yachts and mansions are bought??... when these limited revenue streams are exhausted what's left ??? all those expensive designer clothes...from Paris and Milan ?? those holidays in the sun??? not in this country,Fine wines and spirits ,from France .... sounds like good news for our continental friends.

)
You mean one where you would have to produce your P60 to the shop assistant in order that she could ascertain which button to press on the till?
Well you could go that way .... I was thinking more based on the value of the goods ....I know double edged sword prices the poor out of some markets, but it was just a thought

29 Jan 2012

I'm fed up with people keep saying the rich should pay more, just jealousy if you ask me.

29 Jan 2012

Quote by browning
I'm fed up with people keep saying the rich should pay more, just jealousy if you ask me.

i am amazed as to how there are these so called poor peeple out there?
if you have been following this thred browning, can you answer any of the questions i have asked regarding peeple on low wages being entitled to tax credits, and why this is never mentioned on here?
the government is talking about a maximum amount of 26 grand a yeer. how much is it at the moment if the amounts are higher than this?

29 Jan 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
I'm fed up with people keep saying the rich should pay more, just jealousy if you ask me.

i am amazed as to how there are these so called poor peeple out there?
Prepare to be astounded bemused befuddled and dare I say it staggered .... from just one page ago ... the net used has a very large mesh many many people fall through .... I believe I hinted quite strongly at this not so long ago
if you have been following this thred browning, can you answer any of the questions i have asked regarding peeple on low wages being entitled to tax credits, and why this is never mentioned on here?
If you'd been following this thread starlight I think you might find that they had
the government is talking about a maximum amount of 26 grand a yeer. how much is it at the moment if the amounts are higher than this?

29 Jan 2012

Quote by browning
I'm fed up with people keep saying the rich should pay more, just jealousy if you ask me.

Answered so many times it's becoming a bore ..... are you of some obscure faith that has an unusual mantra you're required to chant at regular and public intervals ????

29 Jan 2012

there you go mr staggers. you may be able to top up your pittance of a salary :thumbup:

29 Jan 2012

Quote by starlightcouple

there you go mr staggers. you may be able to top up your pittance of a salary :thumbup:

I have, I think you'll find, mentioned that for some reason not readily explained in your link,I'm not eligible... strange isn't it, I mean after all if you read the link you'd expect anyone on a salary of less than £20,000 per annum to be eligible .... my God !! you don't think they're lying do you ??

30 Jan 2012

Earnings from work and some state benefits count as income. 'Other' income also counts. This can include interest on savings, pensions or income from property

30 Jan 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009
Earnings from work and some state benefits count as income. 'Other' income also counts. This can include interest on savings, pensions or income from property

:thumbup:
maybe the smoke and mirrors is working in mr staggers favour :giggle:
he probably owns four houses and rents them at at double the market value. he sits on the board of RBS and capitlist is his middle name. what ya think bluefish?

:rotflmao:
if someone earns less than 43 grand a yeer as a household and does not have savings above i think 16 grand, they would be entitled to working tax credits. its the law bluefish. that is the wonder of the internet, you reely do not know anybody at all. wave

if anybody is earning less than that with below those savings amounts and still not getting working tax credits, i have supplied two links now and a person should pop down there and see what is going wrong? passionkiss

some peeple i know did not know they were actualy entitled to any money. it is worth a quick call or visit to find out the facts and not to second guess :thumbup:

30 Jan 2012

if someone earns less than 43 grand a yeer as a household and does not have savings above i think 16 grand, they would be entitled to working tax credits. its the law bluefish.
if anybody is earning less than that with below those savings amounts and still not getting working tax credits, i have supplied two links now and a person should pop down there and see what is going wrong?

Oh dear.
/Facepalms
Did you miss the bit where it says you need kids to qualify for credits at anything like that sort of salary Star? For a working couple without children the cut off is 18 grand, isn't it? For a single person even less. Did you not bother reading that far?

30 Jan 2012

Awww neil I had this down as running til Easter in the sweep.

30 Jan 2012

Aw shit, sorry Ben. Always last in the loop though me you see. Didn't even know there was a bleedin' sweepstake? Set of twats! mad

30 Jan 2012

Quote by neilinleeds
Oh dear.
/Facepalms
Did you miss the bit where it says you need kids to qualify for credits at anything like that sort of salary Star? For a working couple without children the cut off is 18 grand, isn't it? For a single person even less. Did you not bother reading that far?

dont worry about a facepalm neil i am sure you have been wrong before, and in fact no doubt will be again my friend.

have a little peep at the last paragraph.
to qualify you have to fill out a form and tell them what one earns or not. having no children obviously meens no childrens tax credits :doh: that is an easy one to see.
peeple qualify for different amounts based on many things. last year when i was unfortunate enough to be out of work the only way i could find out what / if anything i was entitled to. looking at a website can only second guess. you need to fill out forms neil.
i can tell you now neil that mrs star earns the average wage and yet i still got £104 a week. so how your figures work out i do not know.
i can always send you a breakdown of my benefits neil if that makes things a bit cleerer, but for obvious reesons am not prepared to put in on the public table. :thumbup:
anyone who only earns 10 grand as a figure would get working tax credits. though some would still say that they do not :twisted:
i have done my best to help peeple who may not know about tax credits. if in any doubt surely it is worth filling out the form on line dunno

did you see how much someone would possibly get if they only earned 10 grand a year and had a partner?

30 Jan 2012

Ah, and now comes the backpedalling. This last post of yours is somewhat more qualified than the rather bold, sweeping statements contained in the one previous where you said that, and I quote, 'anybody' earning less than 43 grand would be eligible to working tax credit, isn't it Star? So there are special circumstances which may apply in some cases. I see. Thanks for the enlightment. rolleyes

30 Jan 2012

:sigh: .... The thing is you see .... and this time I'll type it in English .... I have applied and I'm not eligible ... I am not the only one...is that clear enough for you star ??? shall I underline and embolden it ??? do you want it to come round and sing on your doorstep banghead

for fucks sake

Quote by starlightcouple
though some would still say that they do not :twisted:

Really and who might they be ???

30 Jan 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I'm fed up with people keep saying the rich should pay more, just jealousy if you ask me.

Answered so many times it's becoming a bore ..... are you of some obscure faith that has an unusual mantra you're required to chant at regular and public intervals ????
Only when i'm not taking my pills.......................

30 Jan 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
:sigh: .... The thing is you see .... and this time I'll type it in English .... I have applied and I'm not eligible ... I am not the only one...is that clear enough for you star ??? shall I underline and embolden it ??? do you want it to come round and sing on your doorstep for fucks sake

aye cheers mr staggers. it is very clear as to why you do not receive any tax credits. two wages coming in a lot of the time makes a big difference you see. :thumbup::thumbup:

Quote by starlightcouple
though some would still say that they do not :twisted:

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Really and who might they be ???

are you not paying attention mr staggers dunno

a fellow member on here insinuated that there partner earned a very low wage and i then decided to make tax credits know to them. if i would have known it would have caused this much fuss, i would have kept the information to myself.
blimey you try to do someone a favour and sometimes it can backfire on a person. :sad:

30 Jan 2012

a fellow member on here insinuated that there partner earned a very low wage and i then decided to make tax credits know to them. if i would have known it would have caused this much fuss, i would have kept the information to myself.
blimey you try to do someone a favour and sometimes it can backfire on a person.

Oh Starlight, it must be awful being you. To be so constantly misunderstood, all your motives questioned.
:therethere: petal, :therethere:

30 Jan 2012

Quote by neilinleeds
a fellow member on here insinuated that there partner earned a very low wage and i then decided to make tax credits know to them. if i would have known it would have caused this much fuss, i would have kept the information to myself.
blimey you try to do someone a favour and sometimes it can backfire on a person.

Oh Starlight, it must be awful being you. To be so constantly misunderstood, all your motives questioned.
:therethere: petal, :therethere:
It is nice to see the caring side of S/H members