Pregnant Briton and the death penalty?

6 May 2009

I don't read the newspapers (the link below is the first on google) but I have been watching the news tonight and I'm absolutely astounded by the comments made by the official from Lao saying that it was impossible that she got pregnant in prison. confused

Well it wasn't impossible because she wasn't pregnant when she was locked up so what exactly is he suggesting? rolleyes

News Article
Anyway... thought it might be a good topic to discuss. I can't say that I agree with the death penalty. I'm not convinced by the justice system in this country never mind over there and I do think that their system is probably less advanced than ours. Considering they were planning on sticking her in front of a firing squad having given her no opportunity to see a lawyer, that's probably the understatement of the day! :?
I think if someone is found guilty, beyond reasonable doubt, for a crime they have committed then I believe they should be convicted and sentenced appropriately. I do not think that the death penalty is an appropriate sentence for smuggling drugs of the quantities that were found on her, should she be found guilty.
Does it make a difference that she's pregnant (by the means she appears to have found herself pregnant) or should that have no bearing?
So... your thoughts?
I realise this has the potential to be quite a heated debate, but a debate it should be. :thumbup:

Taken from the Oxford dictionary:
debate:
a formal discussion in a public meeting or legislature, in which opposing arguments are presented. :mrgreen:

6 May 2009

That IS the law of the land. She knew what would happen, or could happen if she was caught.
Drugs cause misery for millions, and lives too.
Yes in OUR world it is harsh...but in their world, it is fair.
No easy solution other than...DONT smuggle drugs.

6 May 2009

Quote by Dirtygirly

Well it wasn't impossible because she wasn't pregnant when she was locked up so what exactly is he suggesting?

its quite possible that she got her pregnant...just to escape the death penalty!

6 May 2009

Quote by Mr-Powers

Well it wasn't impossible because she wasn't pregnant when she was locked up so what exactly is he suggesting?

its quite possible that she got her pregnant...just to escape the death penalty!
lol

Yes, I realise that, but the way he said it on the news sounded like it was a physical impossibility for her to have gotten pregnant while she was locked up. I don't think we can question the reasons behind it because I don't suppose anyone knows what they are apart from her but we can question the physical reasons... how does one get pregnant in prison other than shagging a prison officer/member of staff?
And Kenty, I totally agree that if you do the crime you do the time but do you really think the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for the crime?
Whilst I appreciate their laws (although I find them somewhat harsh) and she should have been aware of that risk before she embarked on her journey with of heroin hidden on her person, is it perhaps a little harsh not to allow her any legal representation?
How do you know that she knew the implications Kenty?

6 May 2009

how far along her pregnancy is she ... would it be the same as an early termination or would it be classed as a second 'victim' (wrong word but cannt think right now of the right 1) of the death penality ... my thoughts are wait till she gives birth then carry out the sentence or will this be a greater strain on the resourses of the country when they have to find the child foster/adoptive parents or perhaps keep the child in care costing even more money than it would have to kill it while it is still inside mum... contraversal i am sure great thread dg

6 May 2009

Quote by Dirtygirly

Well it wasn't impossible because she wasn't pregnant when she was locked up so what exactly is he suggesting?

its quite possible that she got her pregnant...just to escape the death penalty!
lol

Yes, I realise that, but the way he said it on the news sounded like it was a physical impossibility for her to have gotten pregnant while she was locked up. I don't think we can question the reasons behind it because I don't suppose anyone knows what they are apart from her but we can question the physical reasons... how does one get pregnant in prison other than shagging a prison officer/member of staff?
God did it,the dirty bastard! :lol:

6 May 2009

Quote by Sara_2006
how far along her pregnancy is she ... would it be the same as an early termination or would it be classed as a second 'victim' (wrong word but cannt think right now of the right 1) of the death penality ... my thoughts are wait till she gives birth then carry out the sentence or will this be a greater strain on the resourses of the country when they have to find the child foster/adoptive parents or perhaps keep the child in care costing even more money than it would have to kill it while it is still inside mum... contraversal i am sure great thread dg

Blimey!! That's fairly clinical!! :shock: lol

I hadn't thought about it like that at all! I have no idea what they'll do, I don't know enough about it, only that she got pregnant whilst in prison so I dare say that's the responsibility of the authorities but good point!
*goes to ponder some more*

6 May 2009

lets look at some "evidence"
a) she has been in custody for since august according to the authorities in laos, which is 9 months....
b) she is apparently 5 months pregnant... according to the british consulate
so unless it is the 2nd coming of the "virgin birth"...that offical really needs a lesson in human biology 101
"something" must of happened... which is strange since they were claiming she was originally in an all woman jail.... confused

:?

6 May 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
That IS the law of the land. She knew what would happen, or could happen if she was caught.
Drugs cause misery for millions, and lives too.
Yes in OUR world it is harsh...but in their world, it is fair.
No easy solution other than...DONT smuggle drugs.

I'm with kentswingers777 on this one ... its harsh and not to our sensibilities but people KNOW how tough the drug laws are over there and the possible consequences if you get caught smuggling drugs.
Saying that, given the publicity etc about this case, I don't think she'll be executed over this.

Quote by Dirtygirly
... Or are we assuming that she did this all by herself without any pressure from someone else?
And she's guilty?

Honest answer? Probably a little coaxing and the promise of a big payoff swayed it ... belief there was little risk in being caught ... can't speak for anyone else but imo, yeah, I think guilty.

6 May 2009

Doesn't anyone wonder if someone forced her to do this?
Maybe put the drugs in her bag?
dunno

Or are we assuming that she did this all by herself without any pressure from someone else?
And she's guilty?

6 May 2009

Quote by Dirtygirly
Doesn't anyone wonder if someone forced her to do this?
Maybe put the drugs in her bag?

Or are we assuming that she did this all by herself without any pressure from someone else?
And she's guilty?

yep!
the only thing anyone would have to use against her,would be her children...and they were obviously quite safe somewhere else...she more than likely saw a quick way of earning money...and just like many others who get caught...expect their own governments to bail them out.

7 May 2009

Quote by Dirtygirly

Well it wasn't impossible because she wasn't pregnant when she was locked up so what exactly is he suggesting?

its quite possible that she got her pregnant...just to escape the death penalty!
lol

Yes, I realise that, but the way he said it on the news sounded like it was a physical impossibility for her to have gotten pregnant while she was locked up. I don't think we can question the reasons behind it because I don't suppose anyone knows what they are apart from her but we can question the physical reasons... how does one get pregnant in prison other than shagging a prison officer/member of staff?
And Kenty, I totally agree that if you do the crime you do the time but do you really think the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for the crime?
Whilst I appreciate their laws (although I find them somewhat harsh) and she should have been aware of that risk before she embarked on her journey with of heroin hidden on her person, is it perhaps a little harsh not to allow her any legal representation?
How do you know that she knew the implications Kenty?
Firstly yes it does seem a harsh punishment but....If that is the law then she should be executed. Sorry a tough stance but how many people could have died through the drugs she was carrying?
Secondly... did she know the implications? Of course she bloody did. When people like her are caught, they always bleat on about some shite excuse or another.
In my view she did the crime now if that is the law, she should do the crime. Don't see too many people bleat on about people in Saudi getting their hands hacked off because they steal something.....always some kind of excuse somewhere along the line.

7 May 2009

Quote by Dirtygirly
Doesn't anyone wonder if someone forced her to do this?
Maybe put the drugs in her bag?

Or are we assuming that she did this all by herself without any pressure from someone else?
And she's guilty?

Sorry that sounds like a social workers excuse for when somebody does something over here.
" it was not their fault....they were forced to stab that old lady ". wink

Sorry but even if somebody else did get her to carry the drugs, she is still as guilty as hell. I agree with another poster on this, some politician will get her extradited back to the UK. Where no doubt she will get a nice cosy open prison, with weekend out shopping trips. No doubt serve 6 months and then let her out.
Sorry but her punishment should serve as a lesson to all those who peddle misery to millions of others through drug smuggling.
I know she is a young girl, and I know the death penalty is harsh but....sorry but their law should not be interfered with by the Uk.

7 May 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Firstly yes it does seem a harsh punishment but....If that is the law then she should be executed. Sorry a tough stance but how many people could have died through the drugs she was carrying?
Secondly... did she know the implications? Of course she bloody did. When people like her are caught, they always bleat on about some shite excuse or another.
In my view she did the crime now if that is the law, she should do the crime. Don't see too many people bleat on about people in Saudi getting their hands hacked off because they steal something.....always some kind of excuse somewhere along the line.

And you know that to be fact? How? dunno

I'm not giving any sort of social work excuses... I'm just asking that we discuss it. Asking questions is good in my view. Nothing is ever black and white and based on the details we have via the media I'm not sure it's so easy to make a clear cut decision on her guilt.
However, it appears you've made up your mind, had the trial, seen the conviction and passed the sentence in your head already. confused

Is that fair? Is that how you'd like to see a foreign visitor to our country treated? You don't think people deserve fair legal representation just because it's possible that they knew the implications before they did the crime?
I'm not condoning drug smuggling, far from it. If you do the crime then by all means you should do the time.
I just don't agree that the death penalty should be enforced on a 20 year old girl, who finds herself pregnant in prison without any legal advice regardless of what country or crime. That's barbaric. She should be given a fair trial with proper legal representation. Or do you not think she deserves that because she (according to your facts) knew the risks?

7 May 2009

Seems like she will be getting a fair trial?

7 May 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Seems like she will be getting a fair trial?

If you consider an "appropriate" lawyer to be someone the authorities choose for her fair then I dare say you're correct.
It would appear she doesn't have many rights and for them to be insisting that she was pregnant when she arrived in prison just shows that they're really not very bright! wink

7 May 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
In my view she did the crime now if that is the law, she should do the crime. Don't see too many people bleat on about people in Saudi getting their hands hacked off because they steal something.....always some kind of excuse somewhere along the line.

Hmmmmm. Under Sharia law women who are caught having sex outside of marriage are routinely buried up to their necks, and then have concrete blocks hurled at them til they're dead. Quite a lot of people do bleat on about that actually, as far as it goes. ;)
I'm not mithered about the ins and outs of Heroin traficking, or what she did or didn't know. I'm bothered that she's been in prison 8 months, was due to go on trial next week where she would more than likely have been sentenced on the quiet, and only now has she been allowed anything like access to legal representation and Foreign Office officials. I'm also bothered that in becoming pregnant in prison, no matter how that came about, the Lao prison authorites have failed in what I'd see as their duty of care for this woman. It does not bode well for any future prison sentence they may, in their mercy, hand down to her. confused

For those who want to add to the pressure on the Lao authorities, most seem to be using the following contact details to make representations to them:
HE General Choummaly Sayasone
President of Lao and Leader of the Lao People's Revolutionary Party
c/o HE Ambassador Phiane Philakone
Embassy of the Lao Peopleâ€™s Democratic Republic
2222 S St. NW
Washington, DC 20008

Neil x x x ;)

7 May 2009

:thumbup:
Does that make you a tree hugger too then Nellie?! :giggle:

7 May 2009

Quote by flower411
The really scary thing in this thread is the fact that people are assuming that this girl is guilty !!!! :shock:
How can you possibly know ?
The whole point of a trial is to find out.

First thought through my head was imagine jury service. :scared:

7 May 2009

Quote by flower411
The really scary thing in this thread is the fact that people are assuming that this girl is guilty !!!! :shock:
How can you possibly know ?
The whole point of a trial is to find out.

They are guilty there until proven innocent I think..
A somewhat different purpose to a trial in Britain where there is a presumption of innocence and the prosecution have to prove their case (beyond reasonable doubt).

7 May 2009

I wouldn't be so sure about that, the whole DNA database thing is a shift towards the notion that we're all potential perps ...
Bring on the Dark Judges wink

7 May 2009

Why was I not suprised when I saw the girl on the telly.
Thier country, thier laws, simple.

7 May 2009

Killing people as a punishment is simply wrong whether they are pregnant or not.
The prohibition of recreational drugs causes more harm than good.

7 May 2009

Cannabis maybe ... but I'm none too sure that heroin could be classed as a recreational drug, myself ...
(... though I maybe misread that bit, was it a general comment, not referrring to the fact she was caught smuggling heroin? ...)

7 May 2009

what sickens me is how this is all over the news yet the twenty thousand remaining Hmong that are hiding in the jungles and being chemically murdered in that shit hole of a country Laos are hidden in the depths of the internet..
ooops forgot they arent westerners and we are worth twenty thousand times as much per person as they are..sic
another CIA mess up.

7 May 2009

Quote by wild rose and the stag
what sickens me is how this is all over the news yet the twenty thousand remaining Hmong that are hiding in the jungles and being chemically murdered in that shit hole of a country Laos are hidden in the depths of the internet..
ooops forgot they arent westerners and we are worth twenty thousand times as much per person as they are..sic
another CIA mess up.

We could all bleat on about the worlds troubles and the people that suffer but....this is about a girl who allegedly was caught smuggling you know what, in a country where the death penalty for being caught is in force.
As has already been said, I dont know if under the rules we should be discussing this subject?
Maybe a Mod can verify this?

7 May 2009

Just to clarify that this topic is fine to discuss. The topic which is against the AUP is the pros/cons of illegal drugs. The main topic in this thread is the penalty and not about the drugs
Dave_Notts

7 May 2009

Quote by flower411
Just to clarify that this topic is fine to discuss. The topic which is against the AUP is the pros/cons of illegal drugs. The main topic in this thread is the penalty and not about the drugs
Dave_Notts

Yeah !! that`s what I said lol

I know....thats why I copied you wink

Dave_Notts

7 May 2009

Quote by flower411
If we are going to start shooting people just for being stupid ....we are going to run out of people to fire the shots long before we run out of people to shoot !

250m Americans who covet the constitutions right to bear arms would be in two minds over that quote lol

7 May 2009

Quote by flower411

If we are going to start shooting people just for being stupid ....we are going to run out of people to fire the shots long before we run out of people to shoot !

250m Americans who covet the constitutions right to bear arms would be in two minds over that quote lol
Yeah !! and being in two minds ....I was rather hoping they`d start shooting each other lol

:lol:
Or did you not "get" the point of my post ??? wink

Clearly not, thank you for pointing it out to me.