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public sector pensions

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Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
i know the government has changed the goal post`s, (boo hoo ) but as a tax payer, if i`m paying taxes to help someone in retirement,then i`d rather it go to someone who cant afford to turn the gas on ,and not the likes of you who will probably sun your arse for 6 months in spain whilst its cold

You do know the difference between Public Sector pensions and Local Authority pensions?
If not, then have a read about the difference then you will see why your statement is so wrong.
Dave_Notts
GnV
Sex God
Quote by Dave__Notts
i know the government has changed the goal post`s, (boo hoo ) but as a tax payer, if i`m paying taxes to help someone in retirement,then i`d rather it go to someone who cant afford to turn the gas on ,and not the likes of you who will probably sun your arse for 6 months in spain whilst its cold

You do know the difference between Public Sector pensions and Local Authority pensions?
If not, then have a read about the difference then you will see why your statement is so wrong.
Dave_Notts
Are local Authority workers not public sector workers then dunno
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by GnV
i know the government has changed the goal post`s, (boo hoo ) but as a tax payer, if i`m paying taxes to help someone in retirement,then i`d rather it go to someone who cant afford to turn the gas on ,and not the likes of you who will probably sun your arse for 6 months in spain whilst its cold

You do know the difference between Public Sector pensions and Local Authority pensions?
If not, then have a read about the difference then you will see why your statement is so wrong.
Dave_Notts
Are local Authority workers not public sector workers then dunno
Different pensions, so talking apples and pears here. Doctors/nurses/police/teachers are on a different type of pension to a LA bod.
A LA bod pays their own pension. This black hole that I keep reading about is not to do with LA pensions as their pot is sat there. The money is available and can be used to cover their members who have contributed. So they do not need the taxpayer to pay their pension as the pot covers it.
Dave_Notts
GnV
Sex God
Quote by Dave__Notts
Different pensions, so talking apples and pears here. Doctors/nurses/police/teachers are on a different type of pension to a LA bod.
A LA bod pays their own pension. This black hole that I keep reading about is not to do with LA pensions as their pot is sat there. The money is available and can be used to cover their members who have contributed. So they do not need the taxpayer to pay their pension as the pot covers it.
Dave_Notts

Hmmmm :rubs chin:
So LA's increasing Council Tax to fund a "black hole" in their pension fund is a load of bilge then dunno
Max777
Sex God
Quote by GnV
Different pensions, so talking apples and pears here. Doctors/nurses/police/teachers are on a different type of pension to a LA bod.
A LA bod pays their own pension. This black hole that I keep reading about is not to do with LA pensions as their pot is sat there. The money is available and can be used to cover their members who have contributed. So they do not need the taxpayer to pay their pension as the pot covers it.
Dave_Notts

Hmmmm :rubs chin:
So LA's increasing Council Tax to fund a "black hole" in their pension fund is a load of bilge then dunno
Not quite
Max777
Sex God
Quote by GnV
Different pensions, so talking apples and pears here. Doctors/nurses/police/teachers are on a different type of pension to a LA bod.
A LA bod pays their own pension. This black hole that I keep reading about is not to do with LA pensions as their pot is sat there. The money is available and can be used to cover their members who have contributed. So they do not need the taxpayer to pay their pension as the pot covers it.
Dave_Notts

Hmmmm :rubs chin:
So LA's increasing Council Tax to fund a "black hole" in their pension fund is a load of bilge then dunno
Not quite
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by GnV
Different pensions, so talking apples and pears here. Doctors/nurses/police/teachers are on a different type of pension to a LA bod.
A LA bod pays their own pension. This black hole that I keep reading about is not to do with LA pensions as their pot is sat there. The money is available and can be used to cover their members who have contributed. So they do not need the taxpayer to pay their pension as the pot covers it.
Dave_Notts

Hmmmm :rubs chin:
So LA's increasing Council Tax to fund a "black hole" in their pension fund is a load of bilge then dunno
Yes

Dave_Notts
GnV
Sex God
Quote by Dave__Notts
Different pensions, so talking apples and pears here. Doctors/nurses/police/teachers are on a different type of pension to a LA bod.
A LA bod pays their own pension. This black hole that I keep reading about is not to do with LA pensions as their pot is sat there. The money is available and can be used to cover their members who have contributed. So they do not need the taxpayer to pay their pension as the pot covers it.
Dave_Notts

Hmmmm :rubs chin:
So LA's increasing Council Tax to fund a "black hole" in their pension fund is a load of bilge then dunno
Yes

Dave_Notts
So, Secretary of State Pickles has not been lying to the Country then... Town Halls up and down the Country when setting their rates and printing off their "justifications" have been misleading the tax paying public into a belief that the need for rises arises from a need to fill a pensions gap...
When do the embezzlement and false accounting court cases begin then?
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by Dave__Notts
i know the government has changed the goal post`s, (boo hoo ) but as a tax payer, if i`m paying taxes to help someone in retirement,then i`d rather it go to someone who cant afford to turn the gas on ,and not the likes of you who will probably sun your arse for 6 months in spain whilst its cold

You do know the difference between Public Sector pensions and Local Authority pensions?
If not, then have a read about the difference then you will see why your statement is so wrong.
Dave_Notts
Are local Authority workers not public sector workers then dunno
Different pensions, so talking apples and pears here. Doctors/nurses/police/teachers are on a different type of pension to a LA bod.
A LA bod pays their own pension. This black hole that I keep reading about is not to do with LA pensions as their pot is sat there. The money is available and can be used to cover their members who have contributed. So they do not need the taxpayer to pay their pension as the pot covers it.
Dave_Notts
so its not council tax anymore ??? now known as : non voluntary council contributions (hey will you look at that its no longer a tax) :doh:
it would be just like the councils to make up a new name for something, as they did it long enough to create pointless jobs
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by GnV
So, Secretary of State Pickles has not been lying to the Country then... Town Halls up and down the Country when setting their rates and printing off their "justifications" have been misleading the tax paying public into a belief that the need for rises arises from a need to fill a pensions gap...
When do the embezzlement and false accounting court cases begin then?

Not lying GnV, just putting spin on it and hope that people that are easily led take the bait. Looks like he achieved his aim.
His "Blackhole" theory is correct if all 4 million Local Authority workers retired on the same day and drew their pension. Now, do you really think that will happen?
In reality the funds are sustainable for the foreseeable future.
Dave_Notts
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
so its not council tax anymore ??? now known as : non voluntary council contributions (hey will you look at that its no longer a tax) :doh:
it would be just like the councils to make up a new name for something, as they did it long enough to create pointless jobs

Have a read on employer contributions Rob........are LA workers not employees?
You need to stop hitting your head.........it may hurt you
Dave_Notts
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by Dave__Notts
So, Secretary of State Pickles has not been lying to the Country then... Town Halls up and down the Country when setting their rates and printing off their "justifications" have been misleading the tax paying public into a belief that the need for rises arises from a need to fill a pensions gap...
When do the embezzlement and false accounting court cases begin then?

Not lying GnV, just putting spin on it and hope that people that are easily led take the bait. Looks like he achieved his aim.
His "Blackhole" theory is correct if all 4 million Local Authority workers retired on the same day and drew their pension. Now, do you really think that will happen?
In reality the funds are sustainable for the foreseeable future.
Dave_Notts
This is all according to the people who stand to loose the most then dave
i think your foreseeable future is 10 years max
and if LA are not public sector workers how do they get the perks of public sector workers surly this should be removed, if it`s the case
on the basis of final salary pensions being sustainable in the LA then pyramid saving is also viable and sensible savings plan rolleyes
what council do you work for dave .........just out of interest innocent
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
This is all according to the people who stand to loose the most then dave

The private sector that the LA pension funds would lose a great deal as the investment would stop.
Quote by Lizaleanrob
i think your foreseeable future is 10 years max

You think? Or can show that it will only last 10 years? Or is it just a fancyful guess-timate? The fund stands in credit and made more than was paid out if you look at the last accounts.
Quote by Lizaleanrob
and if LA are not public sector workers how do they get the perks of public sector workers surly this should be removed, if it`s the case

Perks? Do they? Like what? Not being funny, but can't remember any perks in LA employment
Quote by Lizaleanrob
on the basis of final salary pensions being sustainable in the LA then pyramid saving is also viable and sensible savings plan rolleyes

Not quite understand pensions then Rob? Here you go bud
Quote by Lizaleanrob
what council do you work for dave .........just out of interest innocent

I work for/with/against councils Rob. It depends on who pays me that week, I don't care who pays me as long as I get paid.
Dave_Notts
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by Dave__Notts
This is all according to the people who stand to loose the most then dave

The private sector that the LA pension funds would lose a great deal as the investment would stop.
Quote by Lizaleanrob
i think your foreseeable future is 10 years max

You think? Or can show that it will only last 10 years? Or is it just a fancyful guess-timate? The fund stands in credit and made more than was paid out if you look at the last accounts.
Quote by Lizaleanrob
and if LA are not public sector workers how do they get the perks of public sector workers surly this should be removed, if it`s the case

Perks? Do they? Like what? Not being funny, but can't remember any perks in LA employment
Quote by Lizaleanrob
on the basis of final salary pensions being sustainable in the LA then pyramid saving is also viable and sensible savings plan rolleyes

Not quite understand pensions then Rob? Here you go bud
Quote by Lizaleanrob
what council do you work for dave .........just out of interest innocent

I work for/with/against councils Rob. It depends on who pays me that week, I don't care who pays me as long as I get paid.
Dave_Notts
there you go dave a balanced view
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
there you go dave a balanced view

Thanks Rob. It states everything in there what I have said on here.
Dave_Notts
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by Dave__Notts
there you go dave a balanced view

Thanks Rob. It states everything in there what I have said on here.
Dave_Notts
so you didn`t read it then dave innocent
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
there you go dave a balanced view

Thanks Rob. It states everything in there what I have said on here.
Dave_Notts
so you didn`t read it then dave innocent
Read what I wrote then quote me where what I said was wrong Rob.
Quite simple really. My thoughts are within this thread. The report is on the thread. Compare the two and show what I said is not within the report.
Dave_Notts
Unknown User
Only just seen this but must add I've been a public sector worker now for nearly 20 years and in that time I've had many chances to move to the private sector but felt for many reasons the public sector may be more stable and the pension was one of these reasons.
Some people may be interested to know some of the fact that go along with the pension debate that's going on at the moment.
1. The extra we are being asked to pay will not go into the pensions. it will go to help pay off the sorry state that we fine this country in at the moment caused by greedy public sector workers and their gold plated pensions ...........I think not.
2. the '' tax payer'' contributed over £35 billion last year towards private sector pensions in tax relief. so to everyone in the private sector that thinks we should all be in this together ........come join us.
3. working longer for public sector workers will have an impact on us all. who wants to be dragged from a burning building by a 66 year old fireman???? and how will a 66 year old binman walk the 20 or so miles a day that they do now?? a 66 year old teacher trying to control a class of 15 year olds and so on.
To end my rant this government came into power with the promise to cut the number of MPs, whom we pay for, it will be another 2 years before the report is out on that and another 1 to 2 years before they actually do cut the numbers, hey ho just before the next elections. Shame it only took them 12 months to cut thousands of public sector jobs and there are only 600 or so of them........ you do the maths.
Max777
Sex God
Quote by Nokno
Only just seen this but must add I've been a public sector worker now for nearly 20 years and in that time I've had many chances to move to the private sector but felt for many reasons the public sector may be more stable and the pension was one of these reasons.
Some people may be interested to know some of the fact that go along with the pension debate that's going on at the moment.
1. The extra we are being asked to pay will not go into the pensions. it will go to help pay off the sorry state that we fine this country in at the moment caused by greedy public sector workers and their gold plated pensions ...........I think not.
2. the '' tax payer'' contributed over £35 billion last year towards private sector pensions in tax relief. so to everyone in the private sector that thinks we should all be in this together ........come join us.
3. working longer for public sector workers will have an impact on us all. who wants to be dragged from a burning building by a 66 year old fireman???? and how will a 66 year old binman walk the 20 or so miles a day that they do now?? a 66 year old teacher trying to control a class of 15 year olds and so on.
To end my rant this government came into power with the promise to cut the number of MPs, whom we pay for, it will be another 2 years before the report is out on that and another 1 to 2 years before they actually do cut the numbers, hey ho just before the next elections. Shame it only took them 12 months to cut thousands of public sector jobs and there are only 600 or so of them........ you do the maths.

Depending where you work in the public sector, your pension payments do not go into a pension pot now. So there will be no difference there, although I'm sure the contributions of those in funded schemes will.
I think you need to check your figures re the £35 billion you claim taxpayers contribute in tax relief. The figure is nearer £20 billion, see chart:

I believe that the current cost of public sector pensions is in excess of £30 billion. Quite some difference. Your "employer" will no doubt be paying contributions of 14% of your salary towards your pension, unless you're a civil servant then it could well be 19% of your salary.
You may be right about 66 year old firemen, not so sure about schoolteachers but why shouldn't public service "pen pushers" retire later as those in the private sector will have to?
Onthebeach_1
Sexlightened
Quote by Max777
Only just seen this but must add I've been a public sector worker now for nearly 20 years and in that time I've had many chances to move to the private sector but felt for many reasons the public sector may be more stable and the pension was one of these reasons.
Some people may be interested to know some of the fact that go along with the pension debate that's going on at the moment.
1. The extra we are being asked to pay will not go into the pensions. it will go to help pay off the sorry state that we fine this country in at the moment caused by greedy public sector workers and their gold plated pensions ...........I think not.
2. the '' tax payer'' contributed over £35 billion last year towards private sector pensions in tax relief. so to everyone in the private sector that thinks we should all be in this together ........come join us.
3. working longer for public sector workers will have an impact on us all. who wants to be dragged from a burning building by a 66 year old fireman???? and how will a 66 year old binman walk the 20 or so miles a day that they do now?? a 66 year old teacher trying to control a class of 15 year olds and so on.
To end my rant this government came into power with the promise to cut the number of MPs, whom we pay for, it will be another 2 years before the report is out on that and another 1 to 2 years before they actually do cut the numbers, hey ho just before the next elections. Shame it only took them 12 months to cut thousands of public sector jobs and there are only 600 or so of them........ you do the maths.

Depending where you work in the public sector, your pension payments do not go into a pension pot now. So there will be no difference there, although I'm sure the contributions of those in funded schemes will.
I think you need to check your figures re the £35 billion you claim taxpayers contribute in tax relief. The figure is nearer £20 billion, see chart:

I believe that the current cost of public sector pensions is in excess of £30 billion. Quite some difference. Your "employer" will no doubt be paying contributions of 14% of your salary towards your pension, unless you're a civil servant then it could well be 19% of your salary.
You may be right about 66 year old firemen, not so sure about schoolteachers but why shouldn't public service "pen pushers" retire later as those in the private sector will have to?
So your assumption is that public sector workers "pen pushers" should retire later than the private sector?
It never ceases to amaze me the perception that the private sector has of the public sector, so naive.
Who do you ring when your bins are not collected, when you have an accident,when you want housing,When you get food poisoining from an dodgy restaurant, when theres a fire, or a noise nuisance,when you need an ambulance or dare i say the police, all those pen pushers!
Max777
Sex God
Why don't you try Reading what I've actually written....then try taking your foot out of your mouth!
Bluefish2009
Sex God
Quote by Max777
but why shouldn't public service "pen pushers" retire later as those in the private sector will have to?

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Bluefish2009
Sex God
Quote by Onthebeach_1
So your assumption is that public sector workers "pen pushers" should retire later than the private sector?
It never ceases to amaze me the perception that the private sector has of the public sector, so naive.
Who do you ring when your bins are not collected, when you have an accident,when you want housing,When you get food poisoining from an dodgy restaurant, when theres a fire, or a noise nuisance,when you need an ambulance or dare i say the police, all those pen pushers!

I shall ring the those paid a wage to do whichever respective trade I require, who would you ring then? dunno
Unless they are on strike of course lol
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Unilever (private sector) go on strike when the employer tries to mess about with their pension
Public Servants (public sector) go on strike when the employer tries to mess about with their pension
Looks like it is across the board. I hope the workers get a fair deal
Dave_Notts
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Onthebeach_1
It never ceases to amaze me the perception that the private sector has of the public sector, so naive.

A teacher does not have to work down the pits............so why can't they stand or sit in front of a class and teach?
A 66 year old can walk for miles and roll a bin out.......so why can't they work till 66?
An EHO does nothing physical.............so can't they look in kitchens or witness nuisance at 66? By the way, EHO's are pen pushers........they do not make things except reports.
There will always be those that are unable to work. And thats where the welfare system comes into play. But if they are able to.........why not?
This is a totally different argument to pension strikes. They are entitled to strike as it is their right.
Dave_Notts
Bluefish2009
Sex God
Quote by Dave__Notts
Unilever (private sector) go on strike when the employer tries to mess about with their pension
Public Servants (public sector) go on strike when the employer tries to mess about with their pension
Looks like it is across the board. I hope the workers get a fair deal
Dave_Notts

Can not imagine that workers will ever get what some see as a fare deal, I think it is a simple fact that people will have to pay more and work longer to get the same pension
Can not see that any amount of strikes will change that fact
Max777
Sex God
Anyone who doubts just how deep in the shit the UK is, watch "The Party's Over: How the West went bust" on BBC IPlayer ( Originally screened yesterday at 7PM on BBC2). It's the second in a two part series by Robert Peston.
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
Can not imagine that workers will ever get what some see as a fare deal, I think it is a simple fact that people will have to pay more and work longer to get the same pension

It sounds a simple fact that people should have to pay more and work longer to get the same pension...............if the pension fund was in trouble.
The pension fund is not in trouble. It has more paying in than out. If nobody paid in from today onwards then the fund can pay its existing members for 20 years.
The extra money is to pay off the national debt with nothing of the extra going into the pension pot.
Dave_Notts
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by Max777
Anyone who doubts just how deep in the shit the UK is, watch "The Party's Over: How the West went bust" on BBC IPlayer ( Originally screened yesterday at 7PM on BBC2). It's the second in a two part series by Robert Peston.

i watched it and came to the conclusion
there is absolutely no hope for the divided Britain blink
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
funny in the 80's endowments promised the world ,when it was realised that they wouldn't make the fund i didn't see strikes
the problem with pensions and such like is they preform based on stock markets and investments so its no surprise that something sold as a golden egg turns out not to be what everyone thought it was dunno
dave notts i don't really see any evidence in the news that the government are artificially raising pensions just so they can steal from them ,would a 1p rise in tax not be more effective :dunno:
now I'm not sure on this but cant the public sector workers not pull out of the current pension fund and not move it else where if they are not happy with the way its performing