I know you didnt want any facts but.................
If you have a look in the guardian you will find an article by the researchers from UCL (Jill Dando Crime Prevention Unit ).
“Brayley and Cockbaine, whose six-month study was cited as evidence, said they were worried that limited data had been extended ‘to characterise an entire crime type, in particular of race and gender’. They challenged claims that white girls were deliberately sought out by offenders. ‘Though the majority … were white so too were the majority of local inhabitants.’ Comparing the percentage of white people in the areas with black and ethnic minorities, their data, they said, showed ‘black and ethnic minority girls over-represented among the victims’.”
As a gut reaction:
I think the right wing tabloid coverage says far more about the agenda of these media than any tidal waves of organised crime.
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Racism or simply facing facts ?
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Sex God
I think we have to be clear about what is a racial 'thing' (can't drum up the exact word I want) and what is a cultural 'thing'.
A century ago there was a prevailing attitude in this country that not only should women not have the vote but that most of them were intellectually incapable of making that kind of decision. There were many women who campaigned AGAINST women's suffrage.
We would never consider this to be a racial thing in the context of UK history, but purely cultural. But when we see the same attitude in a modern, foreign country or amongst non-UK/non-white people in this country we start worrying about the racial thing. Surely it is still culture, not race that holds and carries on these attitudes?
Some cultures include acceptance of attitudes or behaviours that we (because of our upbringing) consider to be unacceptable. They don't. And I'm sure that we could find behaviours (hmm, like swinging perhaps?) that are considered to be appalling, not just a bit off but totally unacceptable, in other current cultures.
In this I am defining race as something you are born with, it's in your DNA. And culture is what you are brought up with, and the experiences you have in and outside the home. TBH I think race is undefinable, and only genetic origin, childhhod upbringing and adult experiences are what define us and we should be specific which we are talking about.
A century ago there was a prevailing attitude in this country that not only should women not have the vote but that most of them were intellectually incapable of making that kind of decision. There were many women who campaigned AGAINST women's suffrage.
We would never consider this to be a racial thing in the context of UK history, but purely cultural. But when we see the same attitude in a modern, foreign country or amongst non-UK/non-white people in this country we start worrying about the racial thing. Surely it is still culture, not race that holds and carries on these attitudes?
Some cultures include acceptance of attitudes or behaviours that we (because of our upbringing) consider to be unacceptable. They don't. And I'm sure that we could find behaviours (hmm, like swinging perhaps?) that are considered to be appalling, not just a bit off but totally unacceptable, in other current cultures.
In this I am defining race as something you are born with, it's in your DNA. And culture is what you are brought up with, and the experiences you have in and outside the home. TBH I think race is undefinable, and only genetic origin, childhhod upbringing and adult experiences are what define us and we should be specific which we are talking about.
Sex God
Quote by flower411
What problem?
The problem that young girls are being "groomed" and ...
Is it a clear issue of young white girls being groomed by Pakistani muslims or isn`t it ?
It`s a fairly simple question .....it`s the answer that I`m grappling with !!
A major concern I would have is that focussing on the details of who was doing the grooming in this one case will mask the cases where the groomers are white, African, Eskimo (insert religion of your choice) etc etc etc
It's like the whole Catholic priest thing. They weren't the whole problem, nor even the majority, but when you read some reports you'd be forgiven for having the impression that if we can just stop the priests doing the abusing everything would be alright.
Sex God
Quote by foxylady2209
I think we have to be clear about what is a racial 'thing' (can't drum up the exact word I want) and what is a cultural 'thing'.
A century ago there was a prevailing attitude in this country that not only should women not have the vote but that most of them were intellectually incapable of making that kind of decision. There were many women who campaigned AGAINST women's suffrage.
We would never consider this to be a racial thing in the context of UK history, but purely cultural. But when we see the same attitude in a modern, foreign country or amongst non-UK/non-white people in this country we start worrying about the racial thing. Surely it is still culture, not race that holds and carries on these attitudes?
Some cultures include acceptance of attitudes or behaviours that we (because of our upbringing) consider to be unacceptable. They don't. And I'm sure that we could find behaviours (hmm, like swinging perhaps?) that are considered to be appalling, not just a bit off but totally unacceptable, in other current cultures.
In this I am defining race as something you are born with, it's in your DNA. And culture is what you are brought up with, and the experiences you have in and outside the home. TBH I think race is undefinable, and only genetic origin, childhhod upbringing and adult experiences are what define us and we should be specific which we are talking about.
:thumbup:
We are all one race, the human race
Sex God
Not tracked down any statistics, but see little point in it anyway.
Mr Vaz, who said he represented many men of Pakistani origin in his Leicester East constituency, told BBC Radio 4's Today: "What I don't think we can do is say that this is a cultural problem. One can accept the evidence which is put before us about patterns and networks but to go that step further I think is pretty dangerous.
"We can't ignore the facts of individual cases, but against what Jack says is what the judge said in the Derby case. don't think you can stereotype an entire community."
Mr Vaz, who said he represented many men of Pakistani origin in his Leicester East constituency, told BBC Radio 4's Today: "What I don't think we can do is say that this is a cultural problem. One can accept the evidence which is put before us about patterns and networks but to go that step further I think is pretty dangerous.
"We can't ignore the facts of individual cases, but against what Jack says is what the judge said in the Derby case. don't think you can stereotype an entire community."
Sex God
There is a high correlation between the incidence of alcoholism and the degree of forestation of an area.....should we all buy agent orange?
Quote by browning
So are people saying it does'nt happen?
Not at all.
It is a criminal activity and should be dealt with by the police within the law of this land. The grooming of children or vulnerable adults for criminal activities should be investigated and charges brought against the perpetrators.
Dave_Notts
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
There is a high correlation between the incidence of alcoholism and the degree of forestation of an area.....should we all buy agent orange?
I believe agent orange carries it own health risks
Sex God
The only cultural issue as i see is that Asian girls retain their virtue and chastity and adhere to a moral code of behaviour meaning that hot and lusting Asian males find their own kind off limits. They instead turn to white girls or women who have a more liberal outlook and where they perceive they will have a better chance to score.
Ask any Egyptian, Turkish or Spanish Waiter who they tend to look out for when their libido rises in the summer months - English female tourists.
Some pretty broad generalisations here but the cultural issue is that we have perhaps allowed our children to become to promiscuous and maybe there are lessons to be learned from the Asian community.
As far as the two guys are concerned, they are simply predatory criminals of which there is no racial stereotyping.
Ask any Egyptian, Turkish or Spanish Waiter who they tend to look out for when their libido rises in the summer months - English female tourists.
Some pretty broad generalisations here but the cultural issue is that we have perhaps allowed our children to become to promiscuous and maybe there are lessons to be learned from the Asian community.
As far as the two guys are concerned, they are simply predatory criminals of which there is no racial stereotyping.
Quote by flower411
So are people saying it does'nt happen?
Not at all.
It is a criminal activity and should be dealt with by the police within the law of this land. The grooming of children or vulnerable adults for criminal activities should be investigated and charges brought against the perpetrators.
Dave_Notts
Yeah but is it happening in the way that has been suggested ?
Are there more cases involving people with certain racial origins or aren`t there ?
Should the police take every crime and start from square one or should they look at the type of crime and look in the places that this crime is rife ?
If a particular type of crime is more evident in certain areas ...be they racial, financial or whatever .....aren`t the police duty bound to take the quickest route to solving the crime ?
Are you saying they aren't because it involves asian men?
Quote by Dave__Notts
I reckon theres a good chance of the police being worried about taking action because of the racial element.
Then why are they always being criticised for being prejudice for arresting minorities. We can't have it both ways.
Are they or aren't they?
Dave_Notts
Because dave, it seems to me that whenever a minority gets arrested, its because of thier race.
Sex God
Quote by browning
I reckon theres a good chance of the police being worried about taking action because of the racial element.
Then why are they always being criticised for being prejudice for arresting minorities. We can't have it both ways.
Are they or aren't they?
Dave_Notts
Because dave, it seems to me that whenever a minority gets arrested, its because of thier race.
Quote by Ben_welshminx
From what extensive experience of the criminal justice system do you make that slightly bonkers assertion?
I feel I should point out that I have no experience of the criminal Justice system
I feel that all to often we hear the cry of racism, above, why is it happening, how can we stop it, or how can we protect the victims.
I remember once while riding my motorbike to a bike meet, we were all pulled in, upon having a chat with the officers there reason was they were trying to catch bikers form Somerset, as they had had a glut of bikers from that area who were no insuring there motorbikes
Clearly they felt a particular crime was happening in a particular area, why was it happening, who knows, but clearly it was. Was what the police were doing racist, I don't think so. But what if the targets had a different skin colour?
Quote by Ben_welshminx
From what extensive experience of the criminal justice system do you make that slightly bonkers assertion?
From my general experience of life.
A simular thing happens when i'm driving my bus, if I refuse to let a black person on for free, the 1st thing they say is "it's because i'm black".
You only have to watch traffic cops/cops on camera/road wars etc etc to see it, an ethnic always seems to blame to fact that they are stopped on thier colour.
Sex God
Quote by browning
From what extensive experience of the criminal justice system do you make that slightly bonkers assertion?
From my general experience of life.
A simular thing happens when i'm driving my bus, if I refuse to let a black person on for free, the 1st thing they say is "it's because i'm black".
You only have to watch traffic cops/cops on camera/road wars etc etc to see it, an ethnic always seems to blame to fact that they are stopped on thier colour.
And why would they not? If I had one leg I don't doubt if I were stopped by the law that it's one of the first things I'd mention....It's human nature to look for a way out of any bad situation....The problem with the police is that when given powers to stop and search,they just happen to stop a much higher percentage of black youth...Ask a black man who drives a nice car how often they get stopped/followed by the police...there's ample evidence should you choose to look to support the idea that the police have in the past at least shown a disproportionate interest in the activities of young black men,I don't doubt that in recent times that interest has been extended to asian youth
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
The problem with the police is that when given powers to stop and search,they just happen to stop a much higher percentage of black youth...Ask a black man who drives a nice car how often they get stopped/followed by the police
Maybe the police stop those who are more likely to have commited a crime?
The police are not stupid, IMO, they deal with criminals everyday and know who to stop.
Sex God
I watched a police program, probably about a year ago or so now, They were stopping cars on a main road through a town/city. They were using there ANPC automatic numberplate recognition and stopping all cars with either no tax, insurance or MOT, it just so happened that all the persons stopped had dark skin, a dark skinned young lady passing by on the pavement pushing a push chair was almost arrested as she caused such a fuss about the police being racist as they had only stopped dark skinned persons. The only reasons these people were stopped was because they had not abide by the laws. Not the fault of the police
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
From what extensive experience of the criminal justice system do you make that slightly bonkers assertion?
From my general experience of life.
A simular thing happens when i'm driving my bus, if I refuse to let a black person on for free, the 1st thing they say is "it's because i'm black".
You only have to watch traffic cops/cops on camera/road wars etc etc to see it, an ethnic always seems to blame to fact that they are stopped on thier colour.
And why would they not? If I had one leg I don't doubt if I were stopped by the law that it's one of the first things I'd mention....It's human nature to look for a way out of any bad situation....The problem with the police is that when given powers to stop and search,they just happen to stop a much higher percentage of black youth...Ask a black man who drives a nice car how often they get stopped/followed by the police...there's ample evidence should you choose to look to support the idea that the police have in the past at least shown a disproportionate interest in the activities of young black men,I don't doubt that in recent times that interest has been extended to asian youth
I suspect it could depend very much on how the car looks. I get stopped more often while on my motorbike than in my car.
Dorset Police
Between April and December 2009, officers used stop and search powers on 4,735 people. This included 4,172 white people and 228 black people.
This year just over half of all stop and searches on black people occurred in just 3 of Dorset's 166 beat areas.
This relates to 125 searches conducted in three adjoining beats in the Boscombe area. This is a specific local issue and it is believed that where searches take place in these beat areas that there is a higher proportion of minority groups among the street population.
From here
If they live in a high crime area, I would suspect they get stopped more often
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
From what extensive experience of the criminal justice system do you make that slightly bonkers assertion?
From my general experience of life.
A simular thing happens when i'm driving my bus, if I refuse to let a black person on for free, the 1st thing they say is "it's because i'm black".
You only have to watch traffic cops/cops on camera/road wars etc etc to see it, an ethnic always seems to blame to fact that they are stopped on thier colour.
And why would they not? If I had one leg I don't doubt if I were stopped by the law that it's one of the first things I'd mention....It's human nature to look for a way out of any bad situation....The problem with the police is that when given powers to stop and search,they just happen to stop a much higher percentage of black youth...Ask a black man who drives a nice car how often they get stopped/followed by the police...there's ample evidence should you choose to look to support the idea that the police have in the past at least shown a disproportionate interest in the activities of young black men,I don't doubt that in recent times that interest has been extended to asian youth
I suspect it could depend very much on how the car looks. I get stopped more often while on my motorbike than in my car.
Dorset Police
Between April and December 2009, officers used stop and search powers on 4,735 people. This included 4,172 white people and 228 black people.
This year just over half of all stop and searches on black people occurred in just 3 of Dorset's 166 beat areas.
This relates to 125 searches conducted in three adjoining beats in the Boscombe area. This is a specific local issue and it is believed that where searches take place in these beat areas that there is a higher proportion of minority groups among the street population.
From here
If they live in a high crime area, I would suspect they get stopped more often
What I wonder are the percentages of the populations ethnicity when compared to the percentage of searches.... ...apparently ethnic minorities make up approx 3% of Dorsets population and account for nearly 5% of searches...not hugely disproportionate agreed but the national figures according to say that a black person is 7 times more likely to be stopped than a white person...that I would suggest is a figure that suggests the police are not quite as even handed and colour blind as they would like us to believe...
Sex God
I think this could help
But they do indicate that in 54 per cent of street crimes where police catch their suspect, that suspect is black.
Some will say that this merely shows the prevalence of racism within the Met. But officers are required to provide evidence before they charge anyone with a crime.
Street crimes and crimes of violence are “contact crimes”: the victims usually get to look at the person attacking them, and so are able to point out some distinguishing features of the assailant -- such as gender, size, and skin colour.
That evidence is the starting point of any police investigation
When a disproportionate number of victims identify their attackers as black males, it is not easy to see what the Met can do to investigate those crimes without being criticised for “disproportionately targeting black men
In the 21st century, the principal grounds on which the Met is accused of racism is that black men make up a much higher proportion of the people stopped and searched by police officers than any other ethnic group.
The Equality Commission assumes that such a practice shows that officers must be covertly racist.
But the disproportionate number of black men identified by victims as perpetrators demonstrates that racism need not have anything to do with it: when the victim identifies the assailant as a black male, it is logical, indeed necessary, for officers to start investigating black suspects.
That may lead them to stop and search black males who are in the vicinity and who have other characteristics identified by the victim.
Officers from the Met could, of course, stop and search old white women or middle-aged Asian mothers instead.
That might end the “disproportionality”. It would also be totally useless as a way of identifying and catching the people responsible for street crime.
When a disproportionate number of victims identify their attackers as black males, it is not easy to see what the Met can do to investigate those crimes without being criticised for “disproportionately targeting black men”.
From here;
But they do indicate that in 54 per cent of street crimes where police catch their suspect, that suspect is black.
Some will say that this merely shows the prevalence of racism within the Met. But officers are required to provide evidence before they charge anyone with a crime.
Street crimes and crimes of violence are “contact crimes”: the victims usually get to look at the person attacking them, and so are able to point out some distinguishing features of the assailant -- such as gender, size, and skin colour.
That evidence is the starting point of any police investigation
When a disproportionate number of victims identify their attackers as black males, it is not easy to see what the Met can do to investigate those crimes without being criticised for “disproportionately targeting black men
In the 21st century, the principal grounds on which the Met is accused of racism is that black men make up a much higher proportion of the people stopped and searched by police officers than any other ethnic group.
The Equality Commission assumes that such a practice shows that officers must be covertly racist.
But the disproportionate number of black men identified by victims as perpetrators demonstrates that racism need not have anything to do with it: when the victim identifies the assailant as a black male, it is logical, indeed necessary, for officers to start investigating black suspects.
That may lead them to stop and search black males who are in the vicinity and who have other characteristics identified by the victim.
Officers from the Met could, of course, stop and search old white women or middle-aged Asian mothers instead.
That might end the “disproportionality”. It would also be totally useless as a way of identifying and catching the people responsible for street crime.
When a disproportionate number of victims identify their attackers as black males, it is not easy to see what the Met can do to investigate those crimes without being criticised for “disproportionately targeting black men”.
From here;
Sex God
Sex God
I will freely admit that I am not a big fan of stop and search, I see it as one of the many tools used by Labour to remove a little more of our liberty.
However, we currently have it, I believe in a limited form now. Our current/biggest terrorist threat is not from white mums. Any statistics will reflect that
Photographers suffer also
However, we currently have it, I believe in a limited form now. Our current/biggest terrorist threat is not from white mums. Any statistics will reflect that
Photographers suffer also
Quote by Too Hot
The only cultural issue as i see is that Asian girls retain their virtue and chastity and adhere to a moral code of behaviour meaning that hot and lusting Asian males find their own kind off limits. They instead turn to white girls or women who have a more liberal outlook and where they perceive they will have a better chance to score.
Ask any Egyptian, Turkish or Spanish Waiter who they tend to look out for when their libido rises in the summer months - English female tourists.
Some pretty broad generalisations here but the cultural issue is that we have perhaps allowed our children to become to promiscuous and maybe there are lessons to be learned from the Asian far as the two guys are concerned, they are simply predatory criminals of which there is no racial stereotyping.
Really? so maybe we should also use threats of violence and so called honour killings to keep our daughters in check! The Asian community isn't perfect no more than we are, so i'd rather not take tips from them.
