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Right to slap women?

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Quote by essex34m

thats 1 in 5 adults wink

Point taken, my mistake. I told you I talk pants most of the time anyway! ;-)
I'd be interested to know the proportion of women who think it is acceptable compared to men... but I shall remain unfulfilled... again! :-(
not a problem,even Kent got it wrong in his opening post!
And yet you call for less points scoring???
yes your right in this instance...and i will put my hands up and except that...i'll even let you have the last word if you wish! :wink:
Quote by Mr-Powers

thats 1 in 5 adults wink

Point taken, my mistake. I told you I talk pants most of the time anyway! ;-)
I'd be interested to know the proportion of women who think it is acceptable compared to men... but I shall remain unfulfilled... again! :-(
not a problem,even Kent got it wrong in his opening post!
And yet you call for less points scoring???
yes your right in this instance...and i will put my hands up and except that...i'll even let you have the last word if you wish! :wink:
Do I look like a woman to you?
Quote by DeeCee
What about if the women hits them first?? lol

very good point there Tan. I think this is one that many people overlook, and I am sure that more than one on five men would and do react with a blow when confronted by a woman who is flailing her arms and becoming violent.
Reasnonable self-defence surely has to be appropriate in such circumstances?
I think that it shouldnt be discounted just because one of the combatants is a woman.
I think the law itself in this country makes no-such distinction... although, wrongly, in my view, it pre-suposes that all male/female violence is domestic violence where the male has no "right" to raise his hand.
There is , I believe, only one surefire way to end a violent confrontation quickly, and that is to subdue ones opponent.
I feel that it is wrong to set an example or a benchmark to say that " you should never hit a woman!because it was and has been going on for generations in situations where it has been the ONLY solution.
Does it not give women some indication that they can do what they like to a man because there wont be any physical response... come off it.... that isnt equality is it? nor is it realistic, practical or the way of the world in general.
I say however, that If a man does react and he does effectively beat his female counterpart and injury then he only has himself to blame... because there are ways to prevent and control a person without losing control to the extent where there are real injury or numerous blows.
And before i get flamed... i just wish to point out that im simply saying there shouldnt be an out and out rule that male on female physical is improper... we all know of situations where it might have been appropriate.
Men who beat up their partners ( sometimes regularly), often infront of kids are lowlife scum who deserve and often do get their comeuppance for it.... I am not talking about them now...btw.
But if women strive for equality, and have in some way recieved it, they should be aware that if they wanna trade blows with a man, they will often come out second best.
Good points there but..... I have picked up on something you said earlier on another thread.... " Maybe some will get the message that this site is predominantly for Swingers to have enjoyment and share a common bond.... ".
Does that statement not include a violence towards women thread, or only the ones you do not want to comment on? Sorry just a question.
surely thats a question for the thread in question...
the same one that has another member accuse you of posting just to wind people up.....
There are good points in my post because it is a clear well thought out piece of intelligent prose.
your post here completely illustrates the point he made and one which i recently made about you mis-using the forum.
touche.
sorry, 2 nil to moi.
Your opinion of course. :shock:
Well if I " mis-use " the forum, I will wait for admin to tell me so, not somebody that always seems to have secret agendas!
If YOU feel I am doing that, then by all means put in a support ticket.
I will wait with baited breath. confused:
Quote by Dirtygirly

Good points there but..... I have picked up on something you said earlier on another thread.... " Maybe some will get the message that this site is predominantly for Swingers to have enjoyment and share a common bond.... ".
Does that statement not include a violence towards women thread, or only the ones you do not want to comment on? Sorry just a question.

I'd say violence towards women is a whole lot more relevant on a swinging site than the IRA! :mrgreen:
I would agree so....take it up with the op as to the IRA subject. wink
The total lack of respect shown here to women and men who have suffered abuse makes me quite sad when it seems the best some of you can do is point score on what promised to be an interesting and informative thread. Adult site? Well you'd think so.
Shame on you.
Quote by Dirtygirly
The total lack of respect shown here to women and men who have suffered abuse makes me quite sad when it seems the best some of you can do is point score on what promised to be an interesting and informative thread. Adult site? Well you'd think so.
Shame on you.

:thumbup:
Can we stay on topic please guys and gals? I, for one would like to read other people's views on this subject
Quote by Tan--Kinky
What about if the women hits them first?? lol
Violence is not an answer though in any case be it men or women or both
For most women (and probably men in the same situation), its not just violence its mental abuse to, they can escape the physical abuse by leaving or phoning the police, but mental abuse goes much deeper so they actually think they can't cope without the man and they are kinda brainwashed and programmed to go back.
If the women leaves with her kids sometimes the kids can follow in the man's footsteps and lash out at their mother - the women go back so the men will discipline the children, as the man in these cases is usually the disciplinarian. I've known men who break into a women's refuge just to slit his wrists in front of his wife, not a serious suicide attempt but an attempt to brainwash the women into going home "he needs me/can't live without me" confused
It is not always as black & white as people make it out to be :cry:

Couldn't agree more Tan.
Quote by jaymar
What about if the women hits them first?? lol
Violence is not an answer though in any case be it men or women or both
For most women (and probably men in the same situation), its not just violence its mental abuse to, they can escape the physical abuse by leaving or phoning the police, but mental abuse goes much deeper so they actually think they can't cope without the man and they are kinda brainwashed and programmed to go back.
If the women leaves with her kids sometimes the kids can follow in the man's footsteps and lash out at their mother - the women go back so the men will discipline the children, as the man in these cases is usually the disciplinarian. I've known men who break into a women's refuge just to slit his wrists in front of his wife, not a serious suicide attempt but an attempt to brainwash the women into going home "he needs me/can't live without me" confused
It is not always as black & white as people make it out to be :cry:

Couldn't agree more Tan.
Nor me. Well said babes worship
If you want to get some inkling of the mindset of the abused woman it might be worth watching a program on Channel 5 catch up or whatever it's called. Sex Slave I think it's called. An American girl was kidnapped whilst hitching by a married couple and the male then subjected her to torture for months. In the end he broke her and she was there for 9 years? even though there were ample opportunities to get away. He even took her to visit her family posing as her fiancee. Why didn't she just walk away? Well the program told the reasons why. I was sceptacle at the start but more understanding at the end.
ps excuse spelling mistakes as I can't be arsed trying to find the dictionary as everything hurts rolleyes
Quote by Resonance
I wish it were that simple Dirty Girly, if it was then this terrible thing would not happen.
I have a friend going through this right at the moment. I have two others who have done so in the past. It is never a case of just growing up and "pulling themselves together".
It is also wrong to think of these women as stupid or ineffectual. None of my friends who have gone through this are either.
What you don't perhaps understand is that men who do this have often set a pattern in place which just escalates over time. It seldom happens that one day a mild mannered man flips his lid and lashes out. What happens is weeks, months, years even of conditioning. A cutting remark there, a gentle slap becomes a bit harder, a shove, a push, a kick up the arse, a punch... it is a slow escalation over time that breeds the acceptance of the violence that follows. This is all supported by callous manipulation and the destruction of a womans self-esteem and self-worth so in the end she feels entirely reliant on her abuser. He twists the love and trust she has in him to his own sadistic ends. Once he has achieved this, he can do what he likes.
Stick a frog in some hot water and he'll jump out immediately. Put him in cold water and slowly heat it up and he will remain in it until he dies. That is the difference.
Add into that a lot of women see what happens as somehow "their" fault. Their partner is only doing it for their benefit. This is slowly put to them time and time again so that when the abuse starts the person receiving the abuse actually believes it is their fault and what is happening is somehow natural. It sounds ludicrous but this is what happens. These women are not stupid, or victims. What they are is conditioned and manipulated and then abused.

I'm sorry I had to cut your post down Res, but I had to say IMHO that is one of the most understanding, insightful and thoughtful posts I have ever seen on this forum and one I agree with wholeheartedly.
You, again only IMHO, are a credit to this forum.
Thank you.
Quote by buckingfabe
If you want to get some inkling of the mindset of the abused woman it might be worth watching a program on Channel 5 catch up or whatever it's called. Sex Slave I think it's called. An American girl was kidnapped whilst hitching by a married couple and the male then subjected her to torture for months. In the end he broke her and she was there for 9 years? even though there were ample opportunities to get away. He even took her to visit her family posing as her fiancee. Why didn't she just walk away? Well the program told the reasons why. I was sceptacle at the start but more understanding at the end.
ps excuse spelling mistakes as I can't be arsed trying to find the dictionary as everything hurts rolleyes

The program was called The Girl in the Box.
The book gives you a much better understanding. It's called Perfect Victim by Christine McGuire and Carla Norton.
When I was working as a doorman many years ago, a lady punched me in the eye because I would not let her take a drink outside(club had no off licence), she punched me in the eye very hard!
I went to punch her back, but the other doormen stopped me.
Quote by browning
When I was working as a doorman many years ago, a lady punched me in the eye because I would not let her take a drink outside(club had no off licence), she punched me in the eye very hard!
I went to punch her back, but the other doormen stopped me.

That was no lady.
Quote by Witchy
When I was working as a doorman many years ago, a lady punched me in the eye because I would not let her take a drink outside(club had no off licence), she punched me in the eye very hard!
I went to punch her back, but the other doormen stopped me.

That was no lady.
It was Witchy in disguise :lol2:
Quote by Tan--Kinky
When I was working as a doorman many years ago, a lady punched me in the eye because I would not let her take a drink outside(club had no off licence), she punched me in the eye very hard!
I went to punch her back, but the other doormen stopped me.

That was no lady.
It was Witchy in disguise :lol2:
:dry:
I was reading something on another forum just a few weeks ago. It was from a guy, who's wife was incredibly violent. He was in fear of his life, and utterly confused as to where to turn. The stigma attached to being a bloke beaten up by a woman is sickening. And I think it's on the rise too, sadly. It seems to be mainly alcohol fuelled.
I'm also close to a bloke who had a violent ex-girlfriend. She would lay into him because she knew he wouldn't raise a hand back.
I don't think a register will help. That said, I don't know what will. Male violence seems (in my experience) to be mainly a result of frustration. That frustration needs to be tackled- violent people can change. I've had a couple of people (one of whom was a woman in her 60's) try to hit me- both times as a result of frustration because I out argued them.
That is a very worrying statistic. At a typical social/munch you get maybe 50-100 people? In that room, 10 to 20 people would consider it fine to see your partner welt you across the face in the car-park and would do nothing about it?
Jeez, no wonder, people just walk by a mugging. The whole idea makes me fume.
I would say it's no better to hit a man than a woman, but there is a size/strength difference. And you can be very sure that a man who feels the need to overpower his partner wouldn't pick one he felt might be strong. Bullies find your weakness, even choose you for it, then work on it. Mental abuse is as damaging as physical, and it can kill you.
A register may help. But a nice big, deep tattoo across the forehead would be more use when you meet someone in the pub and get chatting.
Quote by varca
In court we heard that he had many convictions and cautions for beating women. If only she had let people really know what was going on, had told more than the one friend who listened but didn't alert anyone else to her plight so that they could help her. Maybe if there had been a register of habitual wife/partner beaters then, she might be alive today.

I don't agree with a register for this type of thing at all. Who assesses it? How would it be maintained?
I'm a survivor of "relationship violence" (we never lived together). I'm recently in touch with him, it's been a painful process of becoming "friends" and luckily he is one of those who has grown up since and has no intention of ever repeating his temper or violence towards anyone else.
Had he gone on a register, then it would have hampered his moving on, he holds a very responsible job (saving lives), which he would never have been able to do on such a register.
He reached his potential after we split, I'm positive he can't be the only one. Is it wrong to remove that potential? Once you are on a register, it is unlikely you will be removed, so what happens if you never offend again?
How would you access such a register to check potential partners? Is that not a civil liberties issue?
I understand that with habitual offenders it may be a solution, however I'm more inclined to want better resources and education for partners affected by relationship violence. Male or female!!
More understanding, more shelters, more support, more ways to reach out, better laws of protection.
A register does little to deter offenders, the sex offenders register, whilst having thousands of names on does not prevent sexual offences!
Ummm I don't think that a behaviour is inherent. I believe that violence is a learned behaviour and is as able to be unlearned just as it was learned.
Quote by splendid_
Ummm I don't think that a behaviour is inherent. I believe that violence is a learned behaviour and is as able to be unlearned just as it was learned.

:thumbup:
Quote by varca
Ummm I don't think that a behaviour is inherent. I believe that violence is a learned behaviour and is as able to be unlearned just as it was learned.

It is not always a learned behaviour but I do agree it can be in a lot of cases. My father had nothing but love and affection showered on him as a child and into adulthood and yet he still sadistically took pleasure in beating my mother.
Surely though if that behaviour was inherant, your father would have been violent during childhood despite being showered with love and affection?
Quote by varca
Ummm I don't think that a behaviour is inherent. I believe that violence is a learned behaviour and is as able to be unlearned just as it was learned.

It is not always a learned behaviour but I do agree it can be in a lot of cases. My father had nothing but love and affection showered on him as a child and into adulthood and yet he still sadistically took pleasure in beating my mother.
learned isn't always 'monkey see, monkey do'. Behaviour is much more complex than that. If it were simple we would be the behavioural twin of our parents. That is obviously not the case.
When I was extremely young (I was possibly 3 or 4 years old - and yes, I remember so don't tell me I don't), my older sister (by 3 years) would take to prodding, poking, jabbing and eventually hitting me. Each time I reported, it was laughed off as "young pups play-fighting", except I always knew it took two pups to play fight, not one to hit and the other to receive.
Eventually several months later (the rugrat I was then) I was running round the house with no shirt on, and my sister (the darling young princess she was) was worried I'd embarass her infront of her "friends" (alas, the barbie doll generation), so she resorted to peeling the spine off a dry palm tree and whipping me with it. Considering the toughness of the material, and my age (I was only 5) it left cuts on my back which were bleeding (thankfully there's no scarring).
No matter how many times I begged and pleaded, she would not stop, even after I had stopped running round the house and sat quietly - she had gotten the taste and would not desist. Now she was never the best at "interacting and getting on with people" but this was ridiculous - that was when I saw red mist.
All I recall is turning towards her whilst I felt my little hand close. The result was a seemingly planted blow from a 5 yr old to the tummy of his older sister. My parents were called and my sister taken to hospital, where she spent 3 days supervision. I was scared, really scared I had done her serious damage, even then I understood I had a temper and must never let it get the best of me.
I've never gotten into a situation that resulted in blows since thankfully - I somehow manage to walkaway. However that day my father made sure he instilled his own idea of punishment, just to make sure I remember the consequences of my actions.
His points however I disagree with:
1) You're the man, you should no better (at 5 ffs?)
2) Never disrespect your elders (even when they resort to unwarranted violence, cause they can?)
3) If there's a disagreement between you both, report it (sure - and get laughed off again, like you always do, and then cuddle her and call her daddy's special girl?)
Unlike conventional couples, this was a "relationship" that I had no choice to walk away from, was not taken seriously (by my own parents) when reported, yet made the scape goat if I reacted, even verbally as it was deemed "disrespect", so for years I took it.
Over 25 years later, and she's still a spoilt brat (I've recently had to write cancel a mobile phone line and write off the bills as she's refused to pay a penny for the last 5 years she's had the phone as her parting words were "Leave me alone and go bother someone else". PS: She works, has a 3 bedroom house, 2 cars and has a bigger salary than I do - so money is not her problem.)
For me its not as simple as "Men shouldn't hit women", in my opinion, NO ONE should hit another (ideal world) however saying that, I do feel any woman that raises her hand to hit ANY man in the hope she can yell "You can't hit me - I'm a woman" risks losing her right to that claim. Moral: Don't start what you can't finish. As some would say, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
However, to re-pose the original questions:
1) As the male, was I wrong to hit her?
2) As a 5 year old, was I wrong to hit her?
3) Considering she hit first (and kept on hitting) was I wrong to hit her?
4) Considering, years later, her behaviour has not changed... was I still wrong, all those years ago, to hit her?
I still can't answer these.
Quote by splendid_
Ummm I don't think that a behaviour is inherent. I believe that violence is a learned behaviour and is as able to be unlearned just as it was learned.

It is not always a learned behaviour but I do agree it can be in a lot of cases. My father had nothing but love and affection showered on him as a child and into adulthood and yet he still sadistically took pleasure in beating my mother.
learned isn't always 'monkey see, monkey do'. Behaviour is much more complex than that. If it were simple we would be the behavioural twin of our parents. That is obviously not the is about what gets you what you want, what you can get away with. Perhaps some do really enjoy beating others, but many do it because once they hit someone, got what they wanted and there was no penalty. So they did it again and again got away with it. They got the pleasure of what they wanted, and associated the beating with pleasure, the beating becomes ingrained, part of there personalty.
In a way it can become part of the victims personalty as well. A beating, then love a shower of flowers and affection. If you know nothing but that would you look anywhere else.
I know simplistic, but true. There are many variations on the theme, perhaps as many as there are victims, and there are many who do not fit the above, but a lot do.
I sometimes think a good beating to a kid when he/she starts is not a bad thing, but then a more measured part of me steps in and reminds me to do something else to offset the reward he/she gained by turning to violence.
I knew an inspector once. He said if a child offended did not leave his office crying when he had cautioned him/her, he had failed and the child would re-offended.
Travis
believe me I do not know the whole answer.
I think its wrong for people to hit each other.
I think its wrong for people to judge each other.
I think people involved in violent and abusive relationships need an awful lot of help that simply isn't available.
I think its wrong for people to hit each other.
I think its wrong for people to judge each other.
I think people involved in violent and abusive relationships need an awful lot of help that simply isn't available.quote]
I agree up to a point.
There is help available, but in so many cases, the person who is being abused does not seek the help, that is there.
For it is there, but to get that help they have to do something to either stop the abuse or get out of that situation.
The statistics of domestic violence is awful, and people stay with their abusive partners for many reasons, and I would never judge anyone for staying in that situation. But it must be a horrific situation to find oneself in.
I do not know if some kind of register would work, but I feel it is worth trying. For if it helps the abused person, and goes against the abuser, than for me that would be a good thing.
PMSL who was these 1 in 5 people? did they only ask men lol
Quote by Dirtygirly
I don't understand women who stay. Whilst I appreciate there are perhaps financial/security issues given as reasons to stay I don't get it. Why would you stay with a man who beats you? Same goes for men who stay with abusive women.

i can actually answer that, having lived 5 years with a man who was very violant and put me in hospital many times, you stay thro fear, simple as, if they can do this to you while they live with you what would they do to you if you left them and they found you? and that was the only thing that kept me with him for 5 years the fear of him finding me, and please dont say theres help out there because there isnt, in reality noone wants to know, i went to the police a couple of times and i was told to go home and sort it out, they didnt get involved in domestic etc and that only got me more beating when the police came out to the house on both occasions and let him know i had been to see them about it, hostels for 'battered wife' dont want to know unless you have kids, which i did'nt so i was left with noone to help me, and many women are in the same situation, i did'nt stay cause i was a fool, or cause i loved him or cause i though it was ok i stayed cause i was to scared to go, and unless you have been in that situation you have no idea how you would react smile
From the Times online today:
Perhaps most depressing of all, a survey of 1,300 schoolchildren found that one in three boys thought violence against women was acceptable.
What message are our children receiving?
Quote by naughtynymphos1

I don't understand women who stay. Whilst I appreciate there are perhaps financial/security issues given as reasons to stay I don't get it. Why would you stay with a man who beats you? Same goes for men who stay with abusive women.

i can actually answer that, having lived 5 years with a man who was very violant and put me in hospital many times, you stay thro fear, simple as, if they can do this to you while they live with you what would they do to you if you left them and they found you? and that was the only thing that kept me with him for 5 years the fear of him finding me, and please dont say theres help out there because there isnt, in reality noone wants to know, i went to the police a couple of times and i was told to go home and sort it out, they didnt get involved in domestic etc and that only got me more beating when the police came out to the house on both occasions and let him know i had been to see them about it, hostels for 'battered wife' dont want to know unless you have kids, which i did'nt so i was left with noone to help me, and many women are in the same situation, i did'nt stay cause i was a fool, or cause i loved him or cause i though it was ok i stayed cause i was to scared to go, and unless you have been in that situation you have no idea how you would react smile
Thank you for sharing. :thumbup:
Quote by fluff_n_stuff
From the Times online today:
Perhaps most depressing of all, a survey of 1,300 schoolchildren found that one in three boys thought violence against women was acceptable.
What message are our children receiving?

Obviously the wrong messages.
It does make you wonder....does it not?