Royal Family to be proud of

13 Sep 2012

Quote by flower411
About my post ... I didnt mean to offend anyone but typed what I felt at the time after having served up close to know what im talking about. I dont particularly agree with the reasons why we are still their these days but why we entered in both 1991 and after 9/11 seems to be forgotten with some responses to my post.
I dont usually rant at all, but one of the things I have to defend is when I read things that completely ignore the work I and our forces have/are doing to keep all as safe in bed every night as is possible. Someone has to do the dirty work to ensure that happens.
I could have been clearer in my meaning of "3rd world" and "cowards", although it would still be a 3rd world country without any war going on.
When I said "cowards" i simply meant by blowing innocents up, shooting from mosques, using women and children as cover etc etc
But moving on ... I think its fantastic that someone with the position and comforts Harry has at his beckon is man enough to serve .. and also the Queen for sending her grandchild to carry out his duty;.
My attitude has its moments but I am man enough to either explain them and if wrong amend any, I realise that type doesnt always convey the nature of things too.
But hey ... it'd be boring if everyone were the same surely.
Have a good weekend everyone and stay safe
J

I don`t think anybody who has not been involved first hand can imagine what it is like to be up front and personal in the so called "war on terrorism"
But I can and will argue that the danger we are facing in this country is nothing compared to the dangers faced by those people whose country has been invaded by foreign troops who are well trained and heavily armed.
The idea that people standing up to the invaders, when they are hopelessly outgunned, are cowards is abhorrent.
Maybe somebody should provide them with Apache helicopters to even the odds and then see who the cowards are !
Give whoever you want whatever you like, even up all the scores and on a 1-1 basis I'll back the UK armed forces everytime.

13 Sep 2012

Hey Flower,
I have many (mostly wrong) opinions but my post was to clarify my earlier post. When I was there I didnt think once about why or oil or anything other than me and my team returning in one piece.
How on earth could you possibly know one way or the other if they are cowards or not! From an armchair making your decision after watching sky news!
They dont have electricity half the day how on earth could they have apache attack helicopters!
I was scared shitless going into my first fire fight! I know im not a coward, back our troops they are doing a fantastic job in a shithole..
Bold statement in bold .... do you have the balls for a firefight! Takes more than typing in bold to cope in one of those!
If we didn't invade wrong doers! Then it becomes acceptable and mayhem ensues! The taliban are a clever and resourceful enemy ....
Its un winnable, pull out and let them kill one another!!
You should be proud of our forces and what they do!
I am
J

14 Sep 2012

Quote by VoyeurJ
Bold statement in bold .... do you have the balls for a firefight! Takes more than typing in bold to cope in one of those!

Just a little moot point, flower never typed that in bold, it was quoted and emphasised in bold within the quote.

16 Sep 2012

Quote by tweeky
Give whoever you want whatever you like, even up all the scores and on a 1-1 basis I'll back the UK armed forces everytime.

Everytime? We, the yanks and Dutch fucked up in 1941. That was a war with no margin of superiority. We had the defense, which is an advantage, and still threw it away. The Japanese simply out-thought and out-fought all three.
After 41 & 42 there was dispute they would lose as the allies out supplied them which made the final outcome inevitable.
Dave_Notts

21 Sep 2012

well i would say that the Taliban who creep out in the dead of night to plant IEd's to blow up and kill and maim our troops are cowards indeed. and without a shadow of a doubt a 3rd world country.
but saying that i do believe we should never have invaded and believe that we should pull all troops out tomorrow, and let them fight amongst themselves. the country and it's people are not worth the loss of british life.
oh and btw, Harry for king asap. :thumbup:

21 Sep 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
well i would say that the Taliban who creep out in the dead of night to plant IEd's to blow up and kill and maim our troops are cowards indeed.

Rubbish. For an IED to be effective it needs to be in an area where coalition forces are operating else it's completely pointless. These are areas patrolled and monitored by regular infantry and special forces sniper teams, supported by mobile armour and occasional air cover from AC-130s and Apaches. You seen what a 30mm chain gun round fired from an Apache equipped with FLIR night vision up to 3 miles out does to a human being? There's a video on the internet of Iraqi journalists being tossed around like rag dolls if you're interested. A man who braves a death like that in what he believes is defence of his country is in no way a coward. That may be an unpopular view cos we do like to have these nice, easy, little boxes to put the 'bad guys' in, don't we, but the man's got balls, plain and simple. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

22 Sep 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
oh and btw, Harry for king asap. :thumbup:

Treason!
Ya gotta kill off the present Monarch, the Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cambridge first star :lol2:

22 Sep 2012

Quote by GnV
oh and btw, Harry for king asap. :thumbup:

Treason!
Ya gotta kill off the present Monarch, the Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cambridge first star :lol2:
was that not the hewitt master plan bolt

22 Sep 2012

Quote by GnV
oh and btw, Harry for king asap. :thumbup:

Treason!
Ya gotta kill off the present Monarch, the Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cambridge first star :lol2:
was that not the hewitt master plan bolt

22 Sep 2012

Quote by Lizaleanrob
oh and btw, Harry for king asap. :thumbup:

Treason!
Ya gotta kill off the present Monarch, the Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cambridge first star :lol2:
was that not the hewitt master plan bolt

Good grief people commenting on the current affairs forum at 7:30 in the morning. OK they may be republicans but never mind smile

.

22 Sep 2012

Quote by neilinleeds
Rubbish. For an IED to be effective it needs to be in an area where coalition forces are operating else it's completely pointless. These are areas patrolled and monitored by regular infantry and special forces sniper teams, supported by mobile armour and occasional air cover from AC-130s and Apaches. You seen what a 30mm chain gun round fired from an Apache equipped with FLIR night vision up to 3 miles out does to a human being? There's a video on the internet of Iraqi journalists being tossed around like rag dolls if you're interested. A man who braves a death like that in what he believes is defence of his country is in no way a coward. That may be an unpopular view cos we do like to have these nice, easy, little boxes to put the 'bad guys' in, don't we, but the man's got balls, plain and simple. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

:thumbup: Spot on!

22 Sep 2012

Quote by I
well i would say that the Taliban who creep out in the dead of night to plant IEd's to blow up and kill and maim our troops are cowards indeed.

Quote by neilinleeds
Rubbish. For an IED to be effective it needs to be in an area where coalition forces are operating else it's completely pointless. These are areas patrolled and monitored by regular infantry and special forces sniper teams, supported by mobile armour and occasional air cover from AC-130s and Apaches. You seen what a 30mm chain gun round fired from an Apache equipped with FLIR night vision up to 3 miles out does to a human being?

You been reading to many newspapers neil. i know a person who has returned from the front line only last month, who wished what you say was true, but he stated to me your comments are rubbish and typical of someone with zero knowledge of how things work out there. he asks can you supply any real evidence of the factual content of your comment? not a newspaper clip but actual facts from real sources.

Quote by neilinleeds
There's a video on the internet of Iraqi journalists being tossed around like rag dolls if you're interested.

Really?

Quote by neilinleeds
A man who braves a death like that in what he believes is defence of his country is in no way a coward. That may be an unpopular view cos we do like to have these nice, easy, little boxes to put the 'bad guys' in, don't we, but the man's got balls, plain and simple. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

to suggest what you suggest above, is typical of people who sit on their leather chairs at home, writing what can only be described as 100% bullshite. it shows without doubt neil that you neither know how the army works, and obviously spends to much of their time on their computer. :doh:
as an aside, i still want Harry for king.

22 Sep 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
You been reading to many newspapers neil. i know a person who has returned from the front line only last month, who wished what you say was true, but he stated to me your comments are rubbish and typical of someone with zero knowledge of how things work out there. he asks can you supply any real evidence of the factual content of your comment? not a newspaper clip but actual facts from real sources.

Oh dear. I'm not gonna link directly to the stuff Starlight, cos some people maybe won't appreciate me putting up videos that once seen cannot be unseen while they eat their breakfast. How about you try Googling 'afghanistan apache gun video ied' Starlight, see what you come up with. Lots of videos of exactly the kind of attack I'm talking about taken from an Apache gun cam and released by the ( mostly American ) army no less. Theyr'e not fake mate.

to suggest what you suggest above, is typical of people who sit on their leather chairs at home, writing what can only be described as 100% bullshite.

And your post demonstrates a failure to properly apply the imagination and empathise even a tiny bit with what must be going through a man's mind as he prosecutes what he believes is the defence of his country with the only weapons he has available, in a completely one-sided conflict he has not a hope in hell's chance of winning outright militarily. Only little wit can excuse your complete failure to comprehend the realities of the situation.

22 Sep 2012

Quote by neilinleeds
You been reading to many newspapers neil. i know a person who has returned from the front line only last month, who wished what you say was true, but he stated to me your comments are rubbish and typical of someone with zero knowledge of how things work out there. he asks can you supply any real evidence of the factual content of your comment? not a newspaper clip but actual facts from real sources.

Oh dear. I'm not gonna link directly to the stuff Starlight, cos some people maybe won't appreciate me putting up videos that once seen cannot be unseen while they eat their breakfast. How about you try Googling 'afghanistan apache gun video ied' Starlight, see what you come up with. Lots of videos of exactly the kind of attack I'm talking about taken from an Apache gun cam and released by the ( mostly American ) army no less. Theyr'e not fake mate.

to suggest what you suggest above, is typical of people who sit on their leather chairs at home, writing what can only be described as 100% bullshite.

And your post demonstrates a failure to properly apply the imagination and empathise even a tiny bit with what must be going through a man's mind as he prosecutes what he believes is the defence of his country with the only weapons he has available, in a completely one-sided conflict he has not a hope in hell's chance of winning outright militarily. Only little wit can excuse your complete failure to comprehend the realities of the situation.
oh dear Neil. a person that knows nothing of the history of this conflict, also knows nothing about the people of this country, and certainly very little about how the military goes about it's business.
I am sure though that the families of the soldiers who have been killed and lost limbs through IED's will take comfort from your words. I will not repeat on here what my soldier friend said to me when he read your words, other than to say he thought you had been reading too many fantasy war books. Your comments have been proved to be without any factual evidence and zero knowledge about how the military operates in Afghanistan. Until you do some proper research, my friend suggests a monthly subscription to an action man series.

rolleyes

22 Sep 2012

Starlight, I'm sure the conversation you had with "your mate" discussing the content of my previous posts over breakfast this morning was positively fascinating, but leaving that aside for the moment, is it the case that US and UK armed forces have Apaches operating in Afghanistan? I'll give you a clue, just in case you're not properly up to speed: Prince Harry's out there right now, possibly flying one even as we speak. What is the role of an aerial weapons platform like the Apache gunship? There's another clue for you. Is it close air support / seek and destroy? I think we can both agree that the answer to both my questions can only be an emphatic yes!
Now, I'm not stupid enough to imagine for even a moment that every single foot patrol in Helmand province goes out with an Apache on station overhead, and nowhere have I suggested as much. Nevertheless, whatever you may think of the enemy, there must exist in the mind of an Afghan engaged in operations against coalition forces the sure and certain knowledge that, no matter how much he's got away with before, today might just not be his lucky day, accompanied by the very real fear that unbeknown to him a wall of 30mm rounds or a Hellfire missile with his name on it could be incoming at any given moment. Put yourself in that man's head for even a moment, and then explain to me how you have the neck to call that man a coward. And you call me an armchair warrior? rolleyes

BTW, nothing I have said in any way demeans the sacrifice of those maimed and killed in the prosecution of this war. As someone who's family members have served in just about every major conflict UK armed forces have engaged in from WW2 and on I have nothing but respect for the troops on the ground. I'll thank you not to try twisting my words in the way you've just attempted again. I don't appreciate it mate.

22 Sep 2012

Quote by neilinleeds
Starlight, I'm sure the conversation you had with "your mate" discussing the content of my previous posts over breakfast this morning was positively fascinating, but leaving that aside for the moment, is it the case that US and UK armed forces have Apaches operating in Afghanistan? I'll give you a clue, just in case you're not properly up to speed: Prince Harry's out there right now, possibly flying one even as we speak. What is the role of an aerial weapons platform like the Apache gunship? There's another clue for you. Is it close air support / seek and destroy? I think we can both agree that the answer to both my questions can only be an emphatic yes!
Now, I'm not stupid enough to imagine for even a moment that every single foot patrol in Helmand province goes out with an Apache on station overhead, and nowhere have I suggested as much. Nevertheless, whatever you may think of the enemy, there must exist in the mind of an Afghan engaged in operations against coalition forces the sure and certain knowledge that, no matter how much he's got away with before, today might just not be his lucky day, accompanied by the very real fear that unbeknown to him a wall of 30mm rounds or a Hellfire missile with his name on it could be incoming at any given moment. Put yourself in that man's head for even a moment, and then explain to me how you have the neck to call that man a coward. And you call me an armchair warrior?
BTW, nothing I have said in any way demeans the sacrifice of those maimed and killed in the prosecution of this war. As someone who's family members have served in just about every major conflict UK armed forces have engaged in from WW2 and on I have nothing but respect for the troops on the ground.

I have already explained in some detail that you know nothing of the Afghan people, and more importantly very little of operations currently ongoing in Afghanistan. I will believe "! my mate " on the operational procedures out there, over your comments.

Quote by neilinleeds
I'll thank you not to try twisting my words in the way you've just attempted again. I don't appreciate it mate.

Have not twisted your words at all, it is what you wrote. I am sure many people would not appreciate you making excuses for Taliban foot soldiers planting IED's to kill our troops, and then try to make people understand why they do it. We all know why they do it, and the reasons behind that. I think though you are certainly a bit confused over the difference between the Afghan people, and the Taliban.
Still I stand by what I have already written, and have found a good Action Man web site if you at all interested? innocent

22 Sep 2012

Thank you Flower. You saved me . . . oh, the absolutely minimal amount of typing such a response warranted, if any! Exactly. lol

:lol: :lol:
;)

22 Sep 2012

???

22 Sep 2012

How about people with no idea about what its like out there stop shouting off about their mates experiences, or the experiences of anonymous people on you-tube?

23 Sep 2012

sometimes i think people loose site of who the taliban are what they do/did outside of afganistan and why its so impotant to defete them and hand afganistan to the people of afganistan
and well done harry for going out there to do his bit

23 Sep 2012

Quote by flower411
Dunno what anybody else thinks but from where I`m sitting it appears to be you that`s confused.

maybe you should try standing up, it helps to circulate the blood better. :doh:
from reading some of your past posts, it is even clearer that you know 85% less about the war in Afghanistan than Neil does.

23 Sep 2012

Quote by neilinleeds
Thank you Flower. You saved me . . . oh, the absolutely minimal amount of typing such a response warranted, if any! Exactly. :lol: :lol:
;)

I shall ask you a final time to supply me with FACTS and proper intelligence information on your ridiculous comment of...

Quote by neilinleeds
Rubbish. For an IED to be effective it needs to be in an area where coalition forces are operating else it's completely pointless. These are areas patrolled and monitored by regular infantry and special forces sniper teams, supported by mobile armour and occasional air cover from AC-130s and Apaches.

Also what are your comments on Boys as young as 12 are being used by the Taliban to plant bombs designed to kill and maim British troops in Afghanistan.
Army commanders say insurgents are forcing children to lay improvised explosive devices (IEDs) because they know they will not be shot by British snipers.
I am intrigued as to what your answers will be. I would like factual evidence please Neil, from someone who obviously has first hand experience of the operations of the British army out there.

23 Sep 2012

Who knew we had so many experts in military warfare, history and politics on this site...? dunno

23 Sep 2012

Quote by flower411
sometimes i think people loose site of who the taliban are what they do/did outside of afganistan and why its so impotant to defete them and hand afganistan to the people of afganistan
and well done harry for going out there to do his bit

Now I`m interested !!
What exactly did the taliban do outside of Afghanistan ?
they fund and train terrorism which as you know circles the globe with bombings and such like flower
or did you have other ideas of where the money or training came from dunno

23 Sep 2012

Quote by Lilith
Who knew we had so many experts in military warfare, history and politics on this site...?

That's it done it now Lilith :scared:
Que Dave Notts bolt

23 Sep 2012

Quote by Lizaleanrob
Who knew we had so many experts in military warfare, history and politics on this site...?

That's it done it now Lilith :scared:
Que Dave Notts bolt

Lol - it's fun to hit the hornets' nest from a safe distance...!! ;-)

23 Sep 2012

Quote by flower411
Hang on ....
You want somebody else to provide you with factual evidence of their views when all you`ve come up with is hearsay from your "mate" who has served in Afghanistan ?
Really ?

as usual mr flower, you have trouble understanding the basics.
" hearsay " from a person who has done 3 tours out there. Who has served in the army now for 17 years, and holds a rather high rank. You and your fellow debater probably have not gone further afield in your lives than Spain.
YOU know even less about Afghanistan than Neil does, yet reading your past laughable posts, your knowledge of this war on terror, you could put on the back of a first class stamp.
Do you know the difference between fact and fiction, or would you also like the web site of Action man? :notes:

23 Sep 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
" hearsay " from a person who has done 3 tours out there. Who has served in the army now for 17 years, and holds a rather high rank.

I think that flower's point was that when YOU tell the stories, it is hearsay... As in "I hear say that...". You don't have personal experience, so all you can do is repeat information you have heard from others (not that I'm commenting on how good your source of information may be...)
Now, I've not double checked the definition of "hearsay" before writing this, but I'm pretty confident that what you've been doing in your posts (other than writing insulting comments in response to others' comments) is writing hearsay...

23 Sep 2012

Raaaaaargh. OK, yes, I got bogged down with a TL;DR discussion of the role of the Apache which was largely a by way of example aside to the more salient point I was trying to make which was . . . . ah, bollox, never mind. Those who got it, got it, those who didn't . . . well there's no point wasting any more of my time and energy trying to expand further on it is there? They'll refuse to hear it anyways, as already demonstrated.
It does strike me though that this is precisely what is wrong with the world. The refusal to put yourself in the other guy's head for just a second, and acknowledge that there may just be other ways of looking at things. Much easier to parcel things up with convenient little labels on so we don't have to actually bother to think. sad

23 Sep 2012

Quote by flower411
sometimes i think people loose site of who the taliban are what they do/did outside of afganistan and why its so impotant to defete them and hand afganistan to the people of afganistan
and well done harry for going out there to do his bit

Now I`m interested !!
What exactly did the taliban do outside of Afghanistan ?
they fund and train terrorism which as you know circles the globe with bombings and such like flower
or did you have other ideas of where the money or training came from dunno

As it happens I had thought the money and training came from Al Qaeda who in turn had been funded and armed by the CIA during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.
I had previously understood that the Taliban allowed terrorist training camps to be set up and also used the facilities to train their own forces in the war against the Northern factions in their own country.
Thanks for putting me right on that one....just goes to show how wrong one can be !
im intrested to know how you think al Qaeda funds its operations ?