Quote by flower411
Interesting to see that those that claim to know use terms such as "hadjis" ....not speaking from first hand experience, I had understood that this was a racist term.
And your point is ?
Glad your not a politician. :sleeping:
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Quote by starlightcouple
Interesting to see that those that claim to know use terms such as "hadjis" ....not speaking from first hand experience, I had understood that this was a racist term.
And your point is ?
Glad your not a politician. :sleeping:
Not wishing to second guess what flowers point was, but a racist term used in a derogatory manner is against the rules of the forum.
Maybe the poster who used the term would like to keep it to himself until he was back in theatre.
Quote by Rogue_trader
Interesting to see that those that claim to know use terms such as "hadjis" ....not speaking from first hand experience, I had understood that this was a racist term.
And your point is ?
Glad your not a politician. :sleeping:
Not wishing to second guess what flowers point was, but a racist term used in a derogatory manner is against the rules of the forum.
Maybe the poster who used the term would like to keep it to himself until he was back in theatre.
When I Googled the word as I was not even sure what it meant it said " an Arabic term of respect for someone who has made the pilgrimage to Mecca "
Quote by starlightcouple
When I Googled the word as I was not even sure what it meant it said " an Arabic term of respect for someone who has made the pilgrimage to Mecca "
Funny as the urban dictionary gives it as an offensive term used by troops. So whilst I can see your point that it maybe used as a term of respect by someone to a pilgrim of mecca or Jerusalem, I think in the way the original poster had used it was squaddie slang. But I shall let him come back on that matter as I may be incorrect.
Quote by Rogue_trader
When I Googled the word as I was not even sure what it meant it said " an Arabic term of respect for someone who has made the pilgrimage to Mecca "
Funny as the urban dictionary gives it as an offensive term used by troops. So whilst I can see your point that it maybe used as a term of respect by someone to a pilgrim of mecca or Jerusalem, I think in the way the original poster had used it was squaddie slang. But I shall let him come back on that matter as I may be incorrect.
A very good idea Rogue, as I had never even heard the word. A word is to one person something completely different to another person. A word is just a word, a punch in the face is what really hurts, not a silly word.
Quote by starlightcouple
And it is a derogatory because? I am unsure what you are trying to say Flower.
It is derogatory because it is disrespectful.
Somewhat akin to calling black people 'sambo', Liverpudlians 'scarse gits' and the French 'frogs'.
Not that I subscribe in any way to such abuses myself, you understand. The examples given are purely for guidance purposes.
Quote by GnV
And it is a derogatory because? I am unsure what you are trying to say Flower.
It is derogatory because it is disrespectful.
Somewhat akin to calling black people 'sambo', Liverpudlians 'scarse gits' and the French 'frogs'.
Not that I subscribe in any way to such abuses myself, you understand. The examples given are purely for guidance purposes.
Words GnV just words.
Almost all the examples of that word do not give that as a derogatory word. One web site does and it is a term to describe Arabs or dark skinned people, used by the Americans. When were words used by the Americans used in a disrespectful way, now applied to the UK as well? Are people really that bothered by a word, used by American soldiers but used by a member on a swingers site, and another member indicating racism? Well I would have thought people were a bit bigger than that GnV to be honest.
Quote by starlightcouple
Words GnV just words.
Surely you don't genuinely believe that words are "just words" and have no potentially damaging effect? Words are one of the key ways in which we communicate, and are particularly important in a forum (such as this) where there are no other methods in which to convey meaning (e.g. body language, tone of voice, etc.)
Quote by starlightcouple
Are people really that bothered by a word, used by American soldiers but used by a member on a swingers site, and another member indicating racism?
Given the context in which the term was used, and the subsequent post by the member in question, it was clearly intended as an abusive, derogatory term. It is irrelevant how many people know of the term or the context in which it became a term of abuse. The point is that if there is a risk that using a term may offend someone because it is used in a derogatory manner, and if there is a risk that people may view a comment as racist, then it should not be made. It contravenes the AUP and it lowers the tone of what should be a sensible, adult debate.
Quote by Lilith
Surely you don't genuinely believe that words are "just words" and have no potentially damaging effect? Words are one of the key ways in which we communicate, and are particularly important in a forum (such as this) where there are no other methods in which to convey meaning (e.g. body language, tone of voice, etc.)
Yes I do believe that Lilith. Does that make me wrong because I do not agree with you? Are people really that shallow as to be offended by a mere word? It is what I believe and some people seem to get offended much easier than others so how can you tell from one person to another what their reaction is going to be?
I am sure that if any member is slightly offended by that term., then there is a report button to use. I did not know it is offensive in the slightest and I wonder how many Arabs find it offensive, do we know?
Quote by starlightcouple
I am sure that if any member is slightly offended by that term., then there is a report button to use. I did not know it is offensive in the slightest and I wonder how many Arabs find it offensive, do we know?
It is irrespective of whether the intended group find it offensive or not! If it is used in a derogatory way then it is wrong,.
Quote by starlightcouple
Does that make me wrong because I do not agree with you?
It has nothing to do with whether or not you agree with me. You are just wrong if you think that words can never have a damaging effect.
I've noticed that you often like to ask people for facts and evidence to back up what they say. Well <flexes muscles>, how about the fact that it is a criminal offence in this country to incite racial hatred? That offence is committed when a person says something which is abusive or insulting, where they intend to stir up racial hatred or make it likely that racial hatred will be stirred up. Why do you think that law exists? It is because words can be incredibly powerful and the things that we say matter just as much as the things that we do.
The Equality Act also includes a category of discrimination known as harassment. This is where are person violates another person's dignity or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading or offensive environment. Claims have been brought under this legislation for the use of terms like "gay boy" in the workplace.
If you're still not convinced that words can hurt people, try speaking to a child who is verbally bullied at school. Then come back here and tell me that words can't hurt.
Quote by starlightcouple
Are people really that shallow as to be offended by a mere word? It is what I believe and some people seem to get offended much easier than others so how can you tell from one person to another what their reaction is going to be?
It's not remotely shallow to be offended by a term of racial abuse. The reason that a lot of those words are offensive is because of the history of violence and discrimination against a particular race with which the words are associated. What is shallow is a failure to recognise that and understand that it is important to treat people with dignity and respect. If you are not sure how a person will react to any given term, then that provides even more reason to be sensitive and avoid using it altogether.
Quote by starlightcouple
I did not know it is offensive in the slightest and I wonder how many Arabs find it offensive, do we know?
That is irrelevant. I find a lot of terms offensive, even when they are nothing to do with my own race/background/social status, etc. The key point here, which you seem to be missing, is that it is wrong for someone to intentionally use a term in a derogatory way, because it may be offensive to other users of the forum. It is also against the AUP, regardless of whether it is reported.
Quote by Lilith
It has nothing to do with whether or not you agree with me. You are just wrong if you think that words can never have a damaging effect.
Your opinion and am sorry but I do not agree. Of course on occasion words aimed directly at a person can have a damaging effect, but where is the person here who has been offended? Taken out of all context as is usually the case now in the UK.
Quote by Lilith
I've noticed that you often like to ask people for facts and evidence to back up what they say. Well <flexes muscles>, how about the fact that it is a criminal offence in this country to incite racial hatred? That offence is committed when a person says something which is abusive or insulting, where they intend to stir up racial hatred or make it likely that racial hatred will be stirred up. Why do you think that law exists? It is because words can be incredibly powerful and the things that we say matter just as much as the things that we do.
The courts decide what is against the law and what is racial hatred, not individuals on a forum on the internet. The case of Terry the footballer is a case that springs to mind recently. He admitted calling him those words of which I am sure you do not need reminding of what they were,yet the law stated that it was not racist. What he said was not meant in the way that some people interpreted it. There were many that stated what he said was racist and there to stir racist problems but the law did not agree even though he did admit using the words. So you see sometimes the law is not always as it seems even when they admit to it.
Quote by Lilith
The Equality Act also includes a category of discrimination known as harassment. This is where are person violates another person's dignity or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading or offensive environment. Claims have been brought under this legislation for the use of terms like "gay boy" in the workplace.
Once again the law decides on cases, and not always do cases come to court let alone get convictions.
Quote by Lilith
If you're still not convinced that words can hurt people, try speaking to a child who is verbally bullied at school. Then come back here and tell me that words can't hurt.
My parents would have used the " sticks and stones argument ". That seems to be a thing of the past now.
Quote by Lilith
It's not remotely shallow to be offended by a term of racial abuse. The reason that a lot of those words are offensive is because of the history of violence and discrimination against a particular race with which the words are associated. What is shallow is a failure to recognise that and understand that it is important to treat people with dignity and respect. If you are not sure how a person will react to any given term, then that provides even more reason to be sensitive and avoid using it altogether.
Best not to say anything for fear of upsetting or causing offense. I do not agree with your way of thinking no more than you agree with mine. I do on most occasions treat people in the way I want to be treated, but that is not always the case. It's called life and best to deal with it as best that I can. Obviously I have a very shallow attitude towards what is offensive. Guilty as charged. I am not walking on egg shells in the remote chance that I may well deal with a person who gets offended very easily, and there are people out there like that. I shall try my hardest to live within the laws of this country and if my thoughts do not sit well with some people then I can do no more than that.
Quote by Lilith
I find a lot of terms offensive, even when they are nothing to do with my own race/background/social status, etc. The key point here, which you seem to be missing, is that it is wrong for someone to intentionally use a term in a derogatory way, because it may be offensive to other users of the forum. It is also against the AUP, regardless of whether it is reported.
I am not missing anything here at all. A word was used in a way that we still do not know in which way it was meant, a word that I had not heard of at all. A word that like many others can be taken one of many ways and yet the liberals interpret it as they want to. I shall wait for the poster to answer ( if they do ) what they meant by their comment.
I agree in part of what you are saying, but a bigger part of me believes in many cases it is others who interpret another's words and maybe those people do not need nor want others fighting their cause. If and it is a big if this members words were deemed offensive or racist, which would be against the AUP, I shall await any action from the owners of the site. I shall see whether they agree or do not agree about the comment being taken out of context.
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
A word was used in a way that we still do not know in which way it was meant,
Sorry, but you are not correct there.
Quote by VoyeurJ
I use it as a derogatory term there
Quote by VoyeurJ
I only have derogatory terms and feelings for Hadjis!
Quote by Trevaunance
A word was used in a way that we still do not know in which way it was meant,
Sorry, but you are not correct there.
Quote by VoyeurJ
I use it as a derogatory term there
Quote by VoyeurJ
I only have derogatory terms and feelings for Hadjis!
Then I stand corrected Trev and await what the owners say.
I did not use the word used. I did not know what the word meant as I have stated, I have said nothing offensive. So I wonder why I am bothering to comment. I suppose that I think that some people cause problems that are not there nor wanted in the first place. That applies to so many things out there in the real world, every second of every day.
I did not see the poster use those words Trev, I should have looked a bit closer at the thread.
Star - My comments were all directed at your sweeping statement that words are "just words" and then your subsequent statement that you believe that words can never do any damage. My examples of the law were intended to provide factual examples to back up my assertion that words can be damaging to people. They would not make laws about this sort of thing otherwise. It is not just racially offensive words or discriminatory words that can hurt people either. Slander and libel are all about using words to convey a story that is unfounded and damaging to a person's reputation. I am merely using the law to provide you with concrete examples to show that it is universally acknowledged that words can hurt people! Of course, words can also be damaging without constituting any sort of offence. If I told my wife that I didn't love her any more, that would hurt her infinitely more than if I punched her in the face (not, I hasten to add, that I would ever do such a thing!)
You made the statement that words cannot hurt people. I was merely explaining to you why you are wrong about that. It is not a matter of opinion! People can be, have been, and will be hurt/offended/humiliated/degraded/intimidated by things that other people say. It is a fact; it is not an opinion.
You now appear to have changed your mind and accepted that words can be damaging. If I have understood you correctly, what you are now saying is that you don't care if you offend others by what you say and that people are "too sensitive" and you're not willing to temper your opinions in order to avoid insulting or upsetting others. Is that about the size of it?
I must say, it is very difficult to discuss things with you when you change your point so often and seem to overlook the point that I'm making.
You made the statement that words cannot hurt people. I was merely explaining to you why you are wrong about that. It is not a matter of opinion! People can be, have been, and will be hurt/offended/humiliated/degraded/intimidated by things that other people say. It is a fact; it is not an opinion.
You now appear to have changed your mind and accepted that words can be damaging. If I have understood you correctly, what you are now saying is that you don't care if you offend others by what you say and that people are "too sensitive" and you're not willing to temper your opinions in order to avoid insulting or upsetting others. Is that about the size of it?
I must say, it is very difficult to discuss things with you when you change your point so often and seem to overlook the point that I'm making.
Quote by Lilith
You now appear to have changed your mind and accepted that words can be damaging. If I have understood you correctly, what you are now saying is that you don't care if you offend others by what you say and that people are "too sensitive" and you're not willing to temper your opinions in order to avoid insulting or upsetting others. Is that about the size of it?
I accepted that some of what you say have valid points, but not all. I think some people are way too sensitive in what they find offensive. I do not go out of my way to offend anyone, but I will certainly not stop and think about everything I am about to say, in the event that I may be speaking to someone who finds the slightest thing offensive. It is not about tempering my opinions just that I believe that some people get offended way too easily, and I feel if that is the case then that is their problem and not mine. I try and act within the confines of what the law says I should do/say, but I cannot help it if people get offended at the slightest little thing...and some do. Guardian readers always do.
Quote by Lilith
I must say, it is very difficult to discuss things with you when you change your point so often and seem to overlook the point that I'm making.
Surely if I change my original opinion on a certain point that another poster has put forward, surely that is a good thing. Yes?
Quote by flower411
Perhaps you should read the posts in a thread before trying to blow things out of all proportion.
Who has blown what exactly out of proportion? YOU made a comment and others made comments about that. It is what happens on an internet forum.
So tell me Flower seeing as you made the original point, have you reported the poster at all?
From reading some of the long standing posts on here, I could also accuse you of doing exactly what you are accusing me of. Seems you have a long history too. :happy:
Hadji, is more recently used as a term by military personnel as a comprehensive term for Iraqis, Arabs, Afghans, or Middle Eastern and South Asian people in general.
I left what I believe to be the offensive, per cursors used in theatre out so as not to offend. Apologies if I have anyone but its down to context.
John
I left what I believe to be the offensive, per cursors used in theatre out so as not to offend. Apologies if I have anyone but its down to context.
John
Quote by flower411
Ok - this is all getting abut silly now. I wonder whether a Mod will come along and lock the thread soon. We're in a different time zone to the original topic now, having gone off on so many tangents...!!!
Shush !!! Ya spoilsport :razz:
Honestly! Every time I turn around you boys are bickering!! It's like being a primary school teacher in here... :roll:
:giggle:
Sex God
Quote by Lilith
Ok - this is all getting abut silly now. I wonder whether a Mod will come along and lock the thread soon. We're in a different time zone to the original topic now, having gone off on so many tangents...!!!
this would now be an appropriate time to say
Welcome to the CA forum
Sex God
Debating - I'm winning the argument
Bickering - you're winning the argument
:giggle:
Bickering - you're winning the argument
:giggle:
Quote by Lilith
Ok - this is all getting abut silly now. I wonder whether a Mod will come along and lock the thread soon. We're in a different time zone to the original topic now, having gone off on so many tangents...!!!
We try to avoid locking threads wherever possible because the people contributing to them are trusted to be adult enough to keep to the topic, avoid personal attacks, and to refrain from breaching the AUP. In this case it does seem to be heading the wrong way but let's hope it can be brought back on track to avoid further action/reaction.
Just to clarify: The perceived racist slur has been noted but - due to the differing definitions of the word in use - is being overlooked. However, if it continues to be proposed as part of the debate then that view may have to change. ;)
Quote by Cubes
Ok - this is all getting abut silly now. I wonder whether a Mod will come along and lock the thread soon. We're in a different time zone to the original topic now, having gone off on so many tangents...!!!
We try to avoid locking threads wherever possible because the people contributing to them are trusted to be adult enough to keep to the topic, avoid personal attacks, and to refrain from breaching the AUP. In this case it does seem to be heading the wrong way but let's hope it can be brought back on track to avoid further action/reaction.
Just to clarify: The perceived racist slur has been noted but - due to the differing definitions of the word in use - is being overlooked. However, if it continues to be proposed as part of the debate then that view may have to change. ;)
Oooh, Cubey... I love it when you take charge!
