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Scape Goat???

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Human error, then backed up by cowardice, or is the captain just being made a scape goat?
The Italian coast guard orders in vain the captain of the capsized Italian cruise ship to return on board to oversee the evacuation, according to a recording of the conversation released by a leading Italian newspaper.
Corriere della Sera published the tape, which it said was recorded by the coast guard, on its website.
Captain Francesco Schettino was arrested on Saturday accused of manslaughter and of abandoning the ship before all people were evacuated

He's the captain - one of his responsibilities is to be the last living person to leave the ship. Also to oversee the evacuation of all passengers and crew. And the main one is not to deviate from the planned route into shallow water with known rock outcrops to wave at a retired colleague.
We don't have all the info yet, but it looks as if he treated the ship as his personal ego-trip.
Although the immediate leaking of the transcripts of the interrogation by the investigating judge is deplorable and doesn't offer much confidence of a proper investigation since the information must have come from the office of the judiciary.
i would say before we all judge and listen to the media, let us wait for the outcome of the inquiry eh? :thumbup:
we have an inquiry going on right now about the press and the reports it makes.
The ship's owners have said that the change of course had not been authorised but this morning Lloyds Maritime stated that the ship had actually sailed much closer to the shore last August and that the company must have known this.
I think it's pretty clear that the Captain has made a catastrophic error but his employers have been very quick to hang him out to dry.
The Captain should have been on the ship co-ordinating the exit and making sure that the lifeboats on the seaward side were unlocked and partially released to prevent what ultimately happened (they becoming stuck). First rule on a listing ship that is at risk of sinking is to unlock the lifeboats on both sides and release the lifeboats on the side away from the list (tilt) otherwise friction on the side of the ship overcomes gravity and the boats wont fall. This is critically important as lifeboats on the tilting side are at risk of being swamped by the ships superstructure and failing to release the other boats would result in none being available to use safely.
The Coastguard recording is appalling and completely damning because it was clear that he was off his ship whilst crew, passengers and seemingly rescuers were on it and strugging to get off. Prior to that time, I am sure that we will eventually see from radar recordings where the ship actually was but to be honest even if he was not on the Bridge and a junior officer was on watch it is still ultimately the Captains responsibility.
It is inconceivable that there would be uncharted reefs/submerged rocks anywhere where a ship of that size should be safely navigating.
I would have a reasonable bet that this Captain is in for a very hard time and from early indications he deserves everything that is coming at him. The only thing he did right was steer the ship towards land and allow momentum to get him close to shore. Before and after that he cocked it up monumentally and then followed the comically observed and ironic Italian propency to run. No doubt the WW2 jokes about Italians will be being revisited as we speak.
Quote by Too Hot
It is inconceivable that there would be uncharted reefs/submerged rocks anywhere where a ship of that size should be safely navigating.

"Meanwhile, the UK Hydrographic Office has issued a statement, declining to comment on whether Costa Concordia was using one of its charts.
However, UKHO has confirmed that Italian charts of the area around Giglio are available on a larger scale than the 1:300,000 charts it issues.
Although this might seem to be a technical matter, the master of the vessel, who is under investigation for suspected manslaughter, has blamed the casualty on the cruiseship hitting an uncharted rock. This could make charts critical to the case for the defence, should the master face a criminal prosecution.
No rock is shown on the UKHO chart at the position in which Costa Concordia sank."
Full article can be found here
Quote by Max777
The ship's owners have said that the change of course had not been authorised but this morning Lloyds Maritime stated that the ship had actually sailed much closer to the shore last August and that the company must have known this.
I think it's pretty clear that the Captain has made a catastrophic error but his employers have been very quick to hang him out to dry.

:thumbup:
This is all very true, it would also seam that the maneuvers made by the captain after the damage occurred may have saved many live.
But for me, even if the owners turned a blind eye to these kind of close in sail-by for previous colleges, this does not diminish his responsibility to his passengers and crew.
I must also say I have almost equal contempt for the coastguards release of this tapped recording and its timing
Fess up time....
This was a profession (ships) of mine in a former life and the Captain (and Bridge crew) will have been very familiar with that coastline AND they would have access to local Pilot guides, charts of various scales as well as modern electronic gadgetry that simply did not exist in my era. That said, whether the old style paper charts had been prepared for the planned course AND the island detour is open to question. I would have thought these days though that electronic charts would be available at the push of a button?
You would have to be a knob of the worst possible kind to put any kind of ship anywhere within about 10 miles of underwater obstructions let alone a cruise liner with 4,000+ people on it. The news is suggesting that the ship did not pass mid channel between the island and mainland as it should have but instead passed very close to the island - the suggestion being that it had done this before therefore it would be ok this time?
Sorry but this guy is wrong on every level but even if it was some kind of submerged uncharted rock he put himself, his crew and his passengers at great risk by deviating from what would be the "insured" routing. Then leaving the ship and leaving everyone to themselves - simply criminal.
Quote by Too Hot
Then leaving the ship and leaving everyone to themselves - simply criminal.

Did I hear correctly yesterday that the Captain now suggests that he stumbled when the ship struck the underwater object and became momentarily unconscious. His first recollection thereafter was of being carried along in the flow of people to one of the lifeboats where he mysteriously found himself on shore.
Yeah, right.
Whatever the cause of the crash the captain should NOT have left the ship, end of story. For that alone he is rightly condemned.smackbottom
At the inquiry of the sinking of the Titanic the most senior Officer alive was asked when did he leave the ship. He answered that he didn't, the ship left him............times have changed
Dave_Notts
Quote by Too Hot
Before and after that he cocked it up monumentally and then followed the comically observed and ironic Italian propency to run. No doubt the WW2 jokes about Italians will be being revisited as we speak.

Quote by Too Hot
I believe that the following terms and conditions of this Site have been breached in this thread:
"Refrain from all expressions of bigotry, racism, and homophobia."
The N word is not acceptable in this country and any attempt to justify its use is racist.
What started in this thread as a debate about the actions of a football Club has descended into people questioning the context and use of a word that is universally accepted as a racist and unacceptable to use in this country. I feel sickened and disgusted that anyone could even think that it is any way acceptable.
Starlight - your last post was the final straw for me. I ignored your comments about the black footballers and (the clues being there) but making up stories to justify the continued use of a word that will never again in history be acceptable is outrageous. Neil (who I don't normally agree with) posted a rational and factual reason why the word is universally agreed to be unacceptable.
Not sure where this thread can go now. Hopefully nowhere.

but to poor scorn on the Italians and their bravery is within the aup
:doh:
Being Italian isn't a race, they are a nation. And history acknowledges too-hots sentiments.
Quote by Too Hot
Before and after that he cocked it up monumentally and then followed the comically observed and ironic Italian propency to run. No doubt the WW2 jokes about Italians will be being revisited as we speak.

:thumbup:
Quote by Rogue_trader
Being Italian isn't a race, they are a nation. And history acknowledges too-hots sentiments.

:thumbup:
Quote by Rogue_trader
And history acknowledges too-hots sentiments.

Possibly not ancient history.
Haha love it.
Quote by northwest-cpl
And history acknowledges too-hots sentiments.

Possibly not ancient history.
Quote by Lizaleanrob
Before and after that he cocked it up monumentally and then followed the comically observed and ironic Italian propency to run. No doubt the WW2 jokes about Italians will be being revisited as we speak.

Quote by Too Hot
I believe that the following terms and conditions of this Site have been breached in this thread:
"Refrain from all expressions of bigotry, racism, and homophobia."
The N word is not acceptable in this country and any attempt to justify its use is racist.
What started in this thread as a debate about the actions of a football Club has descended into people questioning the context and use of a word that is universally accepted as a racist and unacceptable to use in this country. I feel sickened and disgusted that anyone could even think that it is any way acceptable.
Starlight - your last post was the final straw for me. I ignored your comments about the black footballers and (the clues being there) but making up stories to justify the continued use of a word that will never again in history be acceptable is outrageous. Neil (who I don't normally agree with) posted a rational and factual reason why the word is universally agreed to be unacceptable.
Not sure where this thread can go now. Hopefully nowhere.

but to poor scorn on the Italians and their bravery is within the aup
:doh:
Quote by Rogue_trader
Being Italian isn't a race, they are a nation. And history acknowledges too-hots sentiments.

Rob never mentioned race, as highlighted above.
Quote by northwest-cpl
And history acknowledges too-hots sentiments.

Possibly not ancient history.
now now northwest lets not let facts get in the way of a good debate
rotflmao:rotflmao:
anyway what have the romans ever done for us wink
No one in their right mind can surely compare people on this forum trying to justify a word that is highly offensive and very racist with the actions of a cowardly Ships Captain? An Italian man with the deaths of many people on his hands who, like Italian armies of recent history he ran as fast as he could from danger.
I just hope this isn't the beginning of a stalking campaign but then again we are talking about a football fan here - not known for their sensibilities when they feel that one of their beloved has been scorned.
Quote by Too Hot
No one in their right mind can surely compare people on this forum trying to justify a word that is highly offensive and very racist with the actions of a cowardly Ships Captain? An Italian man with the deaths of many people on his hands who, like Italian armies of recent history he ran as fast as he could from danger.
I just hope this isn't the beginning of a stalking campaign but then again we are talking about a football fan here - not known for their sensibilities when they feel that one of their beloved has been scorned.

I high lighted what rob said above
I am not a football fan and I am not stalking anyone
In fact, I generally find my self agreeing with about 98% of your views, but not all, and when I do not agree, I say so.
I do not agree with your view of that word and I think I said so at the time. I can also see what rob done above.
He has only highlighted where you used an unnecessary stereotypical interpretation of a nation.
I could be wrong of coarse and sure Rob will answer for himself
Quote by Too Hot
No one in their right mind can surely compare people on this forum trying to justify a word that is highly offensive and very racist with the actions of a cowardly Ships Captain? An Italian man with the deaths of many people on his hands who, like Italian armies of recent history he ran as fast as he could from danger.
I just hope this isn't the beginning of a stalking campaign but then again we are talking about a football fan here - not known for their sensibilities when they feel that one of their beloved has been scorned.

stalking!!! hardly too hot just pointing out your obvious double standards "he is an Italian therefore a coward" not sure this is within the aup anymore than what you accuse starlight of :huh:
I'm quite sure that the allied armies who where evacuated at Dunkirk could not also be accused of running as you so kindly put it
the fact that he no longer followed protocol and run for his life was indeed a cowardly act
the fact that he was Italian has little of no bearing on that fact


im sure by the time you`ve read these easily obtained FACTUAL links you`ll realise you know the same about recent history as you do about football
which is very little and plenty off it
as said i do hate it when facts get in the way of a good debate dunno
Whilst I am sure too-hots remark was a barbed jibe, as used by many passionate orators when putting their point across. The fact that that you proceed to pull that one point apart and prove it to the point of absurdity surely negates your own signature regarding political correctness?
You are going to great lengths to be prove someone to be un-pc so as to disprove their argument. But it doesn't matter as the current evidence alleges
in this instance the captain acted cowardly and therefore the argument stands.
Quote by Rogue_trader
Whilst I am sure too-hots remark was a barbed jibe, as used by many passionate orators when putting their point across. The fact that that you proceed to pull that one point apart and prove it to the point of absurdity surely negates your own signature regarding political correctness?
You are going to great lengths to be prove someone to be un-pc so as to disprove their argument. But it doesn't matter as the current evidence alleges
in this instance the captain acted cowardly and therefore the argument stands.

are you saying then that we shouldn't venture on anything with an Italian in charge
i would also point out self preservation is one of humans strongest instincts and not exclusive to Italian's
and my point was to highlight others willingness and speed to point out the aup to others when even a barbed jibe could fall fowl of the aup, but somehow also have the arrogance to believe they are above such rules
im also sure that others on here of italian decent could and some probably do find the remarks offencive but hey they dont count do they ?????
you might wanna google sterotype but comming from devon i would imagine you sit around all day drinking cider eating clotted cream and singing along to the wurzles greatest hits
Haha I say don't be jealous of our cider and cream teas....though the Worzels are from Somerset!
But back on topic, the captain didn't behave in the way that was appropriate for his position. His actions speak volumes about his character and he should receive the full penalty of the law!
Quote by Lizaleanrob
Whilst I am sure too-hots remark was a barbed jibe, as used by many passionate orators when putting their point across. The fact that that you proceed to pull that one point apart and prove it to the point of absurdity surely negates your own signature regarding political correctness?
You are going to great lengths to be prove someone to be un-pc so as to disprove their argument. But it doesn't matter as the current evidence alleges
in this instance the captain acted cowardly and therefore the argument stands.

are you saying then that we shouldn't venture on anything with an Italian in charge
i would also point out self preservation is one of humans strongest instincts and not exclusive to Italian's
and my point was to highlight others willingness and speed to point out the aup to others when even a barbed jibe could fall fowl of the aup, but somehow also have the arrogance to believe they are above such rules
im also sure that others on here of italian decent could and some probably do find the remarks offencive but hey they dont count do they ?????
you might wanna google sterotype but comming from devon i would imagine you sit around all day drinking cider eating clotted cream and singing along to the wurzles greatest hits
My wife has rode a few Italians without any problem lol :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote by Bluefish2009
Whilst I am sure too-hots remark was a barbed jibe, as used by many passionate orators when putting their point across. The fact that that you proceed to pull that one point apart and prove it to the point of absurdity surely negates your own signature regarding political correctness?
You are going to great lengths to be prove someone to be un-pc so as to disprove their argument. But it doesn't matter as the current evidence alleges
in this instance the captain acted cowardly and therefore the argument stands.

are you saying then that we shouldn't venture on anything with an Italian in charge
i would also point out self preservation is one of humans strongest instincts and not exclusive to Italian's
and my point was to highlight others willingness and speed to point out the aup to others when even a barbed jibe could fall fowl of the aup, but somehow also have the arrogance to believe they are above such rules
im also sure that others on here of italian decent could and some probably do find the remarks offencive but hey they dont count do they ?????
you might wanna google sterotype but comming from devon i would imagine you sit around all day drinking cider eating clotted cream and singing along to the wurzles greatest hits
My wife has rode a few Italians without any problem lol :lol: :lol: :lol:
Clearly she was in charge if she was doing the riding. biggrin
Quote by Bluefish2009
Whilst I am sure too-hots remark was a barbed jibe, as used by many passionate orators when putting their point across. The fact that that you proceed to pull that one point apart and prove it to the point of absurdity surely negates your own signature regarding political correctness?
You are going to great lengths to be prove someone to be un-pc so as to disprove their argument. But it doesn't matter as the current evidence alleges
in this instance the captain acted cowardly and therefore the argument stands.

are you saying then that we shouldn't venture on anything with an Italian in charge
i would also point out self preservation is one of humans strongest instincts and not exclusive to Italian's
and my point was to highlight others willingness and speed to point out the aup to others when even a barbed jibe could fall fowl of the aup, but somehow also have the arrogance to believe they are above such rules
im also sure that others on here of italian decent could and some probably do find the remarks offencive but hey they dont count do they ?????
you might wanna google sterotype but comming from devon i would imagine you sit around all day drinking cider eating clotted cream and singing along to the wurzles greatest hits
My wife has rode a few Italians without any problem lol :lol: :lol: :lol:
Did any of them offer her a cabinet post ???
There is not the slightest doubt that this guy has fucked up, even if he just didn't know what was going on, but I wouldn't be rushing to hang him based on newspaper allegations.
Quote by foxylady2209
Whilst I am sure too-hots remark was a barbed jibe, as used by many passionate orators when putting their point across. The fact that that you proceed to pull that one point apart and prove it to the point of absurdity surely negates your own signature regarding political correctness?
You are going to great lengths to be prove someone to be un-pc so as to disprove their argument. But it doesn't matter as the current evidence alleges
in this instance the captain acted cowardly and therefore the argument stands.

are you saying then that we shouldn't venture on anything with an Italian in charge
i would also point out self preservation is one of humans strongest instincts and not exclusive to Italian's
and my point was to highlight others willingness and speed to point out the aup to others when even a barbed jibe could fall fowl of the aup, but somehow also have the arrogance to believe they are above such rules
im also sure that others on here of italian decent could and some probably do find the remarks offencive but hey they dont count do they ?????
you might wanna google sterotype but comming from devon i would imagine you sit around all day drinking cider eating clotted cream and singing along to the wurzles greatest hits
My wife has rode a few Italians without any problem lol :lol: :lol: :lol:
Clearly she was in charge if she was doing the riding. biggrin
Point taken :lol: