Shame on you Liverpool FC

24 Dec 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
Have you bothered to actually look Star, or as usual do you simply cling to your beliefs without letting inconvenient things like actual facts get in the way of them?
Two whole seconds on Google, black man convicted of racist offence towards whites:

Just to mix things up, black woman convicted of racist offence towards Asian woman:

Sure there are more if you look for them. Seems you can be racist if you're black after all according to the law? Who'd have thunk it?
Neil

yes i did look neil but wanted ben to look. he did but came up with a daily mail thingy.
i still stand by my view that on the whole with a few exceptions which i thank you for finding, that on the whole whites are more racist than blacks/asians. in the eyes of the law and the courts who are under huge pressure to convict.
the law is there to protect one section of the community over another. if i walked into a police station and stated i had been racially abused by a black person, after they had stopped sniggering i am sure, no in fact positive, that no action would be taken, but if the role was reversed it would be a different thing altogether.i would be arrested and charged and convicted in about a week.
i will not be swayed at all in anyone trying to convince me any different.:notes: in my opinion the reaction to the liverpool players comments are so overboard and the reesons he gave for his comments in his native country, should have just given him a sharp warning. a 40 thousand pound fine and a 8 match ban? for what exactly? terry if found guilty by all means give him that fine and punishment but what happens if terry is convicted and say fined 2500 pounds? will that be also unjust as terrys comments if proven were far worse, and he is englands captain so should know better. but would the same punishment have happened if anton ferdinand had said similar things to terry? no they would not have been. that is what i am trying to say, not the same rules and laws.

24 Dec 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
would the other player have been charged had he racially abused Luis Suarez ?
would anton ferdinand be charged had he racially abused john terry?
no no and no again i beleeve.
sorry but that is how i see things.

That may be so (and I fear it is) But 2 wrongs don't make a right, by what you say we should scrap all racism law in this country :sad:
never said about 2 wrongs, what i did say is that you can only be a racist or say something racially ofensive if you are indeed white.
i have never seen a case come to court of a black man accused of racist coments towards a white person. on that basis it is one sided and unjust that either terry or the liverpool player have been/were charged and convicted.
i have never seen so much one sided nonsence in my life. for the record whilst i am no lover of liverpool fc, i agree 100% with the actions that there manager and the players took the other night :thumbup:
You are missing 2 points people are trying to make Star
1. Would Anton Ferdinand be found guilty of racially abusing John Terry ...
Yes if proven guilty. All the cases of racism by Non Whites given in
evidence prove
2. Would Anton Ferdinand racially abuse John Terry
No, it isn't seen as offensive therefore not done .. i'm struggling to find an
offensive word for a white person, unfortunatley i can find loads for a non - white.
There are plenty of otherways to abuse John Terry by the way ! Are they illegal, no as they question his character and not the colour of his skin

24 Dec 2011

One would have thought his employer would have also taken action.
After all he has, through his own actions, robbed them of his services.
I cant think of any job I have had in my entire life where calling a colleague or customer, rather than a friend, any race based name, in public, would have been acceptable.
One then has to question his motivations. He used the term in order to hurt and offend. It obviously worked. That to my mind is deliberate racial abuse.
Ism's are endemic in footbal. Racism is pretty obvious but lets face it there aint many openly gay footballers are there? Didin't Max Clifford opine recently that any professional footballer who came out could expect his career to end?
The filth being posted on Collymores twitter only serves to show that football cannot afford to take the easy path.

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
One would have thought his employer would have also taken action.
After all he has, through his own actions, robbed them of his services.
I cant think of any job I have had in my entire life where calling a colleague or customer, rather than a friend, any race based name, in public, would have been acceptable.
One then has to question his motivations. He used the term in order to hurt and offend. It obviously worked. That to my mind is deliberate racial abuse.
Ism's are endemic in footbal. Racism is pretty obvious but lets face it there aint many openly gay footballers are there? Didin't Max Clifford opine recently that any professional footballer who came out could expect his career to end?
The filth being posted on Collymores twitter only serves to show that football cannot afford to take the easy path.

His employers obviously don't see things as you do Ben and are supporting their employee.
I wonder in how many of your past employments, people have deliberately kicked you in order to prevent you doing your job and had they done so, what your reaction may have been?

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Max777
One would have thought his employer would have also taken action.
After all he has, through his own actions, robbed them of his services.
I cant think of any job I have had in my entire life where calling a colleague or customer, rather than a friend, any race based name, in public, would have been acceptable.
One then has to question his motivations. He used the term in order to hurt and offend. It obviously worked. That to my mind is deliberate racial abuse.
Ism's are endemic in footbal. Racism is pretty obvious but lets face it there aint many openly gay footballers are there? Didin't Max Clifford opine recently that any professional footballer who came out could expect his career to end?
The filth being posted on Collymores twitter only serves to show that football cannot afford to take the easy path.

His employers obviously don't see things as you do Ben and are supporting their employee.
I wonder in how many of your past employments, people have deliberately kicked you in order to prevent you doing your job and had they done so, what your reaction may have been?
i see in the case of Suarez that all though a racist comment has allegedly been made that the police are taking no action
does this mean that footballers are beyond the law or just maybe there is not really a case and Suarez is nothing more than a pawn hung out to dry to make the English FA look tough on racism
if that's the case then i doubt Europe is ready for the Ukrainian supporters at the next euro cup
maybe we should just hang him or give him the elecric chair aye ben

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Max777
His employers obviously don't see things as you do Ben and are supporting their employee.
I wonder in how many of your past employments, people have deliberately kicked you in order to prevent you doing your job and had they done so, what your reaction may have been?

No, his employers need to join the 21st Century. I have suffered much worse than a kick in the course of my employment.

Quote by Lizaleanrob
maybe we should just hang him or give him the elecric chair aye ben

Don't be ridiculous.

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx

His employers obviously don't see things as you do Ben and are supporting their employee.
I wonder in how many of your past employments, people have deliberately kicked you in order to prevent you doing your job and had they done so, what your reaction may have been?

No, his employers need to join the 21st Century. I have suffered much worse than a kick in the course of my employment.
in what context and what was your reaction?

24 Dec 2011

Its all a bit personal and Id rather not disclose it.

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
Its all a bit personal and Id rather not disclose it.

then send a pm away from the forum and then maybe he will understand your comments a bit better?

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
Its all a bit personal and Id rather not disclose it.

OK, I was just curious, having in the past been a recipient of an abusive pm just for having the effrontery to disagree with you in these forums, I can't imagine that you would have turned the other cheek in such circumstances.

24 Dec 2011

i have just realised what this whole sorry affair has been about :doh:
how could i have been so blind. none as blind and all that eh? lol

the fa and the government have decided to make blatter look a pratt also because of this.

so blatter the head of fifa states there is no racism in football to massive reactions from the english fa and black players in particular like stan collymoore who would have suaez hung up by his feet and whipped or something as horrid. then to teach blatter a lesson for us not getting the world cup, we prove him wrong about racism in football and come down hard on a player who we now know was the one who admitted to the fa what he had said, when he could have admitted nothing.
so this is all about paying back blatter. got it now. it makes so much sense from a very angry and irate english fa who are openly against blatter and his alleged corruption practices. let us also remember who also went out there for the world cup bidding eh? david cameron the PM and the heir to our throne william. maybe that is where terry became involved with the police by interferance from the government. far fetched?
maybe a bit fabricated but i wonder if indeed there is an ounce of truth in any of it ?

24 Dec 2011

I never asked a question, I stated my own opinion, which is that the form of support they showed was a shamefull act of support for racism by him and within the game of football, I said I would have supported other forms of action to show that they thought he had made some sort of mistake or error of judgement.

24 Dec 2011

Quote by MidsCouple24
snip
I said I would have supported other forms of action to show that they thought he had made some sort of mistake or error of judgement.

Did you?

24 Dec 2011

Yet again a thread degenerates into petty personal allegations eh, plus ca change.
I have notice this last outpost of the rapscallion normally comes to the fore when there isn't a leg left to stand on in terms of the debate.

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
Yet again a thread degenerates into petty personal allegations eh, plus ca change.
I have notice this last outpost of the rapscallion normally comes to the fore when there isn't a leg left to stand on in terms of the debate.

Or perhaps when people that continuously try to claim the moral high ground are shown in their true colours?
Oh and btw, it was you that ceased the debate, you wouldn't answer my question. The point I was making was one of provocation and reaction to that provocation.

24 Dec 2011

Quote by MidsCouple24
I never asked a question, I stated my own opinion, which is that the form of support they showed was a shamefull act of support for racism by him and within the game of football, I said I would have supported other forms of action to show that they thought he had made some sort of mistake or error of judgement.

i think that the show of support undermines the FA but given the evidence which was, in his own country is not considered racist word and the letter published by his team mates add to this the support the club is showing speaks volumes as to the fact it wasn't considered a racist slur by those that know him and work with him
but it's laughable as some now baying for blood and screaming sack him would happily argue about embracing other cultures (should the wrong people post their thoughts)
as all it came down to was a word normally accepted in his own country/culture dunno

is a man not allowed to forget his native language now in the heat of the moment
there is a problem with racism in football and it needs to be stamped out but this wasn't one of them
anyway thanks for your opinion mids although i disagree i respect it all the same
merry xmas to you and yours

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Max777
Yet again a thread degenerates into petty personal allegations eh, plus ca change.
I have notice this last outpost of the rapscallion normally comes to the fore when there isn't a leg left to stand on in terms of the debate.

Or perhaps when people that continuously try to claim the moral high ground are shown in their true colours?
Oh and btw, it was you that ceased the debate, you wouldn't answer my question. The point I was making was one of provocation.
It usually is Max... he's a past master (or is that being racially abusive as it's a term used by Masons) at taking his bat home when the game goes against him...

24 Dec 2011

Here we go. All i ever wish for is a forum where everybody can express opinions without fear of personal attack.
So back to the debate. The details of the provocations I have suffered are irrelevant. My point stands. I don't see why football should be any different from any other occupation. In fact thinking about it, given the public nature of that employment perhaps we should expect the highest possible standards of behaviour.
I am sure the individual would have had the sense not to walk into a pub or cafe and call one of the mixed race patrons that name eh? TBH if he did it round any of the places I have lived he would be lookin for his teeth.

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
I am sure the individual would have had the sense not to walk into a pub or cafe and call one of the mixed race patrons that name eh? TBH if he did it round any of the places I have lived he would be lookin for his teeth.

What a charmed life you have led Ben.

24 Dec 2011

kenny dalish's take on the matter

kenny is a very very genuine guy and a much better judge of character than most on this forun

24 Dec 2011

"The Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish declared last night that football required specific guidelines about what language was considered racist"
Has he been asleep for the last 40 years?

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
I am sure the individual would have had the sense not to walk into a pub or cafe and call one of the mixed race patrons that name eh? TBH if he did it round any of the places I have lived he would be lookin for his teeth.

Or sat on a tram with a child on their lap.

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
"The Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish declared last night that football required specific guidelines about what language was considered racist"
Has he been asleep for the last 40 years?

of course it does we have people of all nations playing football here' how are they expected to know what is acceptable when most don't even speak our language let alone others
give the debate some thought at least

24 Dec 2011

You are aware of the FA guidelines?
Oh and this popped up and I thought i would share.
"Dixie Dean was leaving the pitch after a game in 1938 when a spectator called out: "We will get you yet, you black bastard." Dean went over to him and punched him in the face. A policeman came running over but instead of arresting him, shook him by the hand."

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Max777
snip
I said I would have supported other forms of action to show that they thought he had made some sort of mistake or error of judgement.

Did you?
Yes I did
quote
He was tried by an organisation he and his fellow Liverpool players, management and shareholders have signed up to abide by therefore there can be no "yes but no but yes but no", I would have to abide by the ruling of a Magistrates or County Courts judgement and I haven't even signed up to thier laws I am simply a resident of the UK by birth, I got no choice in the matter, they did get a choice, if they didn't agree with it then they should be appealing or going on strike or anything but not showing support in this manner, there were other options available to them to show support, the media love to talk to them why not just issue a statement to say that they as one all thought him innocent despite the ruling ? what they did was wear his shirt with his name and his number which says to me, "he is racist and I am the same as him".

24 Dec 2011

Quote by MidsCouple24
what they did was wear his shirt with his name and his number which says to me, "he is racist and I am the same as him".

So if any fan has a replica Suarez or Terry football shirt, are they then racist if they do not dispose of it?

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
You are aware of the FA guidelines?

do you mean the rules and regulations
the rules and regulations are 500+ pages
we could try an exercise Ben get GNV to send you the french version and you can memorise it in time for boxing day and understand it in french
then in august you can do the same exercise in Portuguese
i fear im just repeating myself for your benefit and not the benefit of a debate dunno

24 Dec 2011

He is a professional footballer. No excuse for not knowing the rules of the game ya play. Here's a bit from the rules that may enlighten.
GENERAL BEHAVIOUR
3 (1) A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any
one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive,
indecent or insulting words or behaviour.
(2) In the event of any breach of Rule E 3(1) including a reference to any one or more
of a person’s ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender, sexual orientation
or disability (an “aggravating factor”), a Regulatory Commission shall consider
the imposition of an increased sanction, taking into account the following entry
points:
How much clearer does it need to be?

Quote by Lizaleanrob
You are aware of the FA guidelines?

do you mean the rules and regulations
the rules and regulations are 500+ pages
we could try an exercise Ben get GNV to send you the french version and you can memorise it in time for boxing day and understand it in french
i fear im just repeating myself for your benefit and not the benifit of a debate dunno

24 Dec 2011

He is a professional footballer. No excuse for not knowing the rules of the game ya play. Here's a bit from the rules that may enlighten.
GENERAL BEHAVIOUR
3 (1) A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any
one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive,
indecent or insulting words or behaviour.
(2) In the event of any breach of Rule E 3(1) including a reference to any one or more
of a person’s ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender, sexual orientation
or disability (an “aggravating factor”), a Regulatory Commission shall consider
the imposition of an increased sanction, taking into account the following entry
points:
How much clearer does it need to be?
what to me or someone that doesnt speak our language let alone read it banghead

do you keep driving round and round roundabouts by any chance :huh:
reminds me of a freind who went to america down south way, when a guy asked him what he thought of his wife he repied "shes a cracker" only to wake up in hospital with some nasty head injuries
go figure dunno

24 Dec 2011

Quote by Lizaleanrob
what to me or someone that doesnt speak our language let alone read it
go figure

So you feel a language barrier excuses him from understanding the rules of the game he is employed to play?
I think you are being a bit silly.