should all drugs be classifed class A

29 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
snip ...
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?

If its legalised, won't it then be legal? dunno

Only if they pay taxes, do health and safety checks, have a testing and quality programme, pay VAT and taxes....
You can see why organized crime would choose to stay illegal....
So how have we managed to sort this dilemma with alcohol?
We haven't.
Illegal alcohol sales are a commonplace, and police and Customs and Excise already have to raid corner shops selling unlicensed / non duty paid alcohol. And that's with there being an indigenous legal brewing / distilling industry for over a hundred years.
With drugs on the other hand, the only players are illegal. And they're not going to go away just because we wish they will...

29 Aug 2010

Ok not pot then, I'll call it cannabis! Well done for pulling me up on that point!

29 Aug 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
snip ...
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?

If its legalised, won't it then be legal? dunno

Only if they pay taxes, do health and safety checks, have a testing and quality programme, pay VAT and taxes....
You can see why organized crime would choose to stay illegal....
So how have we managed to sort this dilemma with alcohol?
We havnt,sadly,the prisons and hospitals are full of the casualties of alcohlo.
i havnt really read more than the opening post here,has anyone mentioned Californias plans to clear their deficit by legalising cannabis?
Its an interesting option.
Well that is a slightly different issue to what I commented on, but a valid point. I feel that is down to peoples own inability to police/limit them selves to consuming a sensible quantity.

29 Aug 2010

Quote by awayman
snip ...
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?

If its legalised, won't it then be legal? dunno

Only if they pay taxes, do health and safety checks, have a testing and quality programme, pay VAT and taxes....
You can see why organized crime would choose to stay illegal....
So how have we managed to sort this dilemma with alcohol?
We haven't.
Illegal alcohol sales are a commonplace, and police and Customs and Excise already have to raid corner shops selling unlicensed / non duty paid alcohol. And that's with there being an indigenous legal brewing / distilling industry for over a hundred years.
With drugs on the other hand, the only players are illegal. And they're not going to go away just because we wish they will...
But that surely is very small and more down to illegal imports than back street brewers. It is not like you could buy a bottle of beer/rum/whiskey only to discover it is not what was written on the label but a concoction of dangerous chemicals.
Only once can I remember some anti freeze in some foreign wine.
The current system is not helping as things are only getting worse so some thing needs to be changed

29 Aug 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
snip ...
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?

If its legalised, won't it then be legal? dunno

Only if they pay taxes, do health and safety checks, have a testing and quality programme, pay VAT and taxes....
You can see why organized crime would choose to stay illegal....
So how have we managed to sort this dilemma with alcohol?
We havnt,sadly,the prisons and hospitals are full of the casualties of alcohlo.
i havnt really read more than the opening post here,has anyone mentioned Californias plans to clear their deficit by legalising cannabis?
Its an interesting option.
Well that is a slightly different issue to what I commented on, but a valid point. I feel that is down to peoples own inability to police/limit them selves to consuming a sensible quantity.
Freedom of choice has to include the freedom to cock up,i agree but as i said i do think we are not told the truth harshly and bluntly enough.
Even if we were, would it change our habits? Look at cigarette packets, harsh facts yet it changes very few peoples smoking habits

29 Aug 2010

We're not told the truth about drugs full stop....legalise them all give people the facility to make an informed decision about what they choose to put in their bodies

29 Aug 2010

More information should be more widely available with or without legalisation. It's better than it was 10 years ago but there's a long way to go.

29 Aug 2010

Quote by vampanya
More information should be more widely available with or without legalisation. It's better than it was 10 years ago but there's a long way to go.

Trouble is when the scientist's try to tell us the truth about drugs they are attacked and sacked by the Government.
Remember this

29 Aug 2010

here's something that by coincidence I just stumbled upon....

30 Aug 2010

quite an entertaining thought
when your kids get on a bus for school where the driver took an informed decision to smoke his super skunk before he came to work
or the train driver who wanted to find his inner self last night and popped a lsd tab
or the copper that,s to lethargic to go and arrest the manic with a gun as he had a joint before he came to work
then there is the mechanic who just did your brakes on your car who was rushing out of his nut on amphetamines and forgot to put the pins back
yes legalising drugs does sort of make sense.................if your on em loon

30 Aug 2010

would it be simpler overall if we legalised criminals?

30 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
snip ...
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?

If its legalised, won't it then be legal? dunno

Only if they pay taxes, do health and safety checks, have a testing and quality programme, pay VAT and taxes....
You can see why organized crime would choose to stay illegal....
So how have we managed to sort this dilemma with alcohol?
We haven't.
Illegal alcohol sales are a commonplace, and police and Customs and Excise already have to raid corner shops selling unlicensed / non duty paid alcohol. And that's with there being an indigenous legal brewing / distilling industry for over a hundred years.
With drugs on the other hand, the only players are illegal. And they're not going to go away just because we wish they will...
But that surely is very small and more down to illegal imports than back street brewers. It is not like you could buy a bottle of beer/rum/whiskey only to discover it is not what was written on the label but a concoction of dangerous chemicals.
Only once can I remember some anti freeze in some foreign wine.
The current system is not helping as things are only getting worse so some thing needs to be changed
You should read more widely.
I remembere a story told to me by a local Trading Standards Officer about a local shop selling illegal vodka contaminated with ethanol. SO I googled 'illegal vodka ethanol'. That produced this story;
Five lines down was this story from the Daily Mail, a favourite of Ken and the other molehill mountaineers on here;
I rest my case, m'lud....

30 Aug 2010

Quote by Lizaleanrob
quite an entertaining thought
when your kids get on a bus for school where the driver took an informed decision to DRINK his SPECIAL BREW before he came to work
or the copper that,s too HUNGOVER FROM DRINKING ALCOHOL THE NIGHT BEFORE to go and arrest the manic with a gun...
then there is the mechanic who just did your brakes on your car who HAD A COUPLE OF DRINKS AT LUNCHTIME and forgot to put the pins back
yes legalising drugs does sort of make sense.................if your on em

nuff said - most of society does use alcohol, hence why it's accepted but mass hysteria looms at the mention of legalising other drugs.
It's this double standards that I don't like.

30 Aug 2010

Quote by darkest_desires
quite an entertaining thought
when your kids get on a bus for school where the driver took an informed decision to DRINK his SPECIAL BREW before he came to work
or the copper that,s too HUNGOVER FROM DRINKING ALCOHOL THE NIGHT BEFORE to go and arrest the manic with a gun...
then there is the mechanic who just did your brakes on your car who HAD A COUPLE OF DRINKS AT LUNCHTIME and forgot to put the pins back
yes legalising drugs does sort of make sense.................if your on em

nuff said - most of society does use alcohol, hence why it's accepted but mass hysteria looms at the mention of legalising other drugs.
It's this double standards that I don't like.
a few interesting facts here the link is a little old but pretty damming all the same

a little cut for those who don't want to look at the link
The Facts
In 1989, random samples from a number of road traffic accident fatalities showed that only 3% of the drivers involved in accidents were known to have been driving with drugs in their systems. The figure taken in 2003 was 18% - 6 times the figure taken in 1989.
The RAC foundation said in 2003, that they believed that drug driving may become more prevalent than drink driving. Over six months of that year, Durham police took blood samples from all of the 23 people killed in road accidents and the results were shocking: - 50% of them had traces of either cannabis, cocaine, ecstasy or a prescription drug. :sad:

30 Aug 2010

Quote by Lizaleanrob
The Facts
In 1989, random samples from a number of road traffic accident fatalities showed that only 3% of the drivers involved in accidents were known to have been driving with drugs in their systems. The figure taken in 2003 was 18% - 6 times the figure taken in 1989.
The RAC foundation said in 2003, that they believed that drug driving may become more prevalent than drink driving. Over six months of that year, Durham police took blood samples from all of the 23 people killed in road accidents and the results were shocking: - 50% of them had traces of either cannabis, cocaine, ecstasy or a prescription drug. :sad:

I'd be interested in the percentage of the whole where there were traces of a prescription drug. Some stuff is prone to have a soporific effect and without appropriate warnings could lead drivers into a false sense of security about their ability to retain cognisance whilst at the wheel.

30 Aug 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
A very good point,i remember when my father did his knee in being very worried about the pain meds he was prescribed because he had cut enough people out of cars who he later found out had thought they were safe to drive because the doctor had prescribed the medication.
Its true it usually says something in the small print but people often do not read or understand it.

but were the warnings as clear in 2003 when the evidence was gathered?

30 Aug 2010

Quote by awayman
snip ...
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?

If its legalised, won't it then be legal? dunno

Only if they pay taxes, do health and safety checks, have a testing and quality programme, pay VAT and taxes....
You can see why organized crime would choose to stay illegal....
So how have we managed to sort this dilemma with alcohol?
We haven't.
Illegal alcohol sales are a commonplace, and police and Customs and Excise already have to raid corner shops selling unlicensed / non duty paid alcohol. And that's with there being an indigenous legal brewing / distilling industry for over a hundred years.
With drugs on the other hand, the only players are illegal. And they're not going to go away just because we wish they will...
But that surely is very small and more down to illegal imports than back street brewers. It is not like you could buy a bottle of beer/rum/whiskey only to discover it is not what was written on the label but a concoction of dangerous chemicals.
Only once can I remember some anti freeze in some foreign wine.
The current system is not helping as things are only getting worse so some thing needs to be changed
You should read more widely.
I remembere a story told to me by a local Trading Standards Officer about a local shop selling illegal vodka contaminated with ethanol. SO I googled 'illegal vodka ethanol'. That produced this story;
Five lines down was this story from the Daily Mail, a favourite of Ken and the other molehill mountaineers on here;
I rest my case, m'lud....
Read more widely, or google more widely wink

Like I said not wide spread at all then, and they were found out, which as it stands poisonous drugs are not found out until several have died from them. So that is more evidence, IMO, for legalisation not probation.
Bit of an own goal :wink:

30 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
snip ...
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?

If its legalised, won't it then be legal? dunno

Only if they pay taxes, do health and safety checks, have a testing and quality programme, pay VAT and taxes....
You can see why organized crime would choose to stay illegal....
So how have we managed to sort this dilemma with alcohol?
We haven't.
Illegal alcohol sales are a commonplace, and police and Customs and Excise already have to raid corner shops selling unlicensed / non duty paid alcohol. And that's with there being an indigenous legal brewing / distilling industry for over a hundred years.
With drugs on the other hand, the only players are illegal. And they're not going to go away just because we wish they will...
But that surely is very small and more down to illegal imports than back street brewers. It is not like you could buy a bottle of beer/rum/whiskey only to discover it is not what was written on the label but a concoction of dangerous chemicals.
Only once can I remember some anti freeze in some foreign wine.
The current system is not helping as things are only getting worse so some thing needs to be changed
You should read more widely.
I remembere a story told to me by a local Trading Standards Officer about a local shop selling illegal vodka contaminated with ethanol. SO I googled 'illegal vodka ethanol'. That produced this story;
Five lines down was this story from the Daily Mail, a favourite of Ken and the other molehill mountaineers on here;
I rest my case, m'lud....
Read more widely, or google more widely wink

Like I said not wide spread at all then, and they were found out, which as it stands poisonous drugs are not found out until several have died from them. So that is more evidence, IMO, for legalisation not probation.
Bit of an own goal :wink:
Ya learning Blue....ya learning. lol

30 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
snip ...
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?

If its legalised, won't it then be legal? dunno

Only if they pay taxes, do health and safety checks, have a testing and quality programme, pay VAT and taxes....
You can see why organized crime would choose to stay illegal....
So how have we managed to sort this dilemma with alcohol?
We haven't.
Illegal alcohol sales are a commonplace, and police and Customs and Excise already have to raid corner shops selling unlicensed / non duty paid alcohol. And that's with there being an indigenous legal brewing / distilling industry for over a hundred years.
With drugs on the other hand, the only players are illegal. And they're not going to go away just because we wish they will...
But that surely is very small and more down to illegal imports than back street brewers. It is not like you could buy a bottle of beer/rum/whiskey only to discover it is not what was written on the label but a concoction of dangerous chemicals.
Only once can I remember some anti freeze in some foreign wine.
The current system is not helping as things are only getting worse so some thing needs to be changed
You should read more widely.
I remembere a story told to me by a local Trading Standards Officer about a local shop selling illegal vodka contaminated with ethanol. SO I googled 'The fillegal vodka ethanol'. That produced this story;
Five lines down was this story from the Daily Mail, a favourite of Ken and the other molehill mountaineers on here;
I rest my case, m'lud....
Read more widely, or google more widely wink

Like I said not wide spread at all then, and they were found out, which as it stands poisonous drugs are not found out until several have died from them. So that is more evidence, IMO, for legalisation not probation.
Bit of an own goal :wink:
People who can't work out the difference between prohibition and probation are ill-placed to sneer about own goals.
You seem to have signed up to Ken's sneering school of ignorance that asserts that the ability to find information with Google is somehow less meritorious than the desire to swallow, unquestioned, anything the Daily Heil says.
According to Customs and Excise the figure for duty lost on spirits was somewhere up to £200 million pounds - that's a lot of spirits. The figure for tobacco is up to £1.8 billion. That's duty evasion on legalized drugs, that have been legalized for a long time. The fantasy that says legalization means the criminals will go away and hand over to the likes of BAT is just that - a fantasy.

30 Aug 2010

Quote by awayman
snip ...
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?

If its legalised, won't it then be legal? dunno

Only if they pay taxes, do health and safety checks, have a testing and quality programme, pay VAT and taxes....
You can see why organized crime would choose to stay illegal....
So how have we managed to sort this dilemma with alcohol?
We haven't.
Illegal alcohol sales are a commonplace, and police and Customs and Excise already have to raid corner shops selling unlicensed / non duty paid alcohol. And that's with there being an indigenous legal brewing / distilling industry for over a hundred years.
With drugs on the other hand, the only players are illegal. And they're not going to go away just because we wish they will...
But that surely is very small and more down to illegal imports than back street brewers. It is not like you could buy a bottle of beer/rum/whiskey only to discover it is not what was written on the label but a concoction of dangerous chemicals.
Only once can I remember some anti freeze in some foreign wine.
The current system is not helping as things are only getting worse so some thing needs to be changed
You should read more widely.
I remembere a story told to me by a local Trading Standards Officer about a local shop selling illegal vodka contaminated with ethanol. SO I googled 'The fillegal vodka ethanol'. That produced this story;
Five lines down was this story from the Daily Mail, a favourite of Ken and the other molehill mountaineers on here;
I rest my case, m'lud....
Read more widely, or google more widely wink

Like I said not wide spread at all then, and they were found out, which as it stands poisonous drugs are not found out until several have died from them. So that is more evidence, IMO, for legalisation not probation.
Bit of an own goal :wink:
People who can't work out the difference between prohibition and probation are ill-placed to sneer about own goals.
You seem to have signed up to Ken's sneering school of ignorance that asserts that the ability to find information with Google is somehow less meritorious than the desire to swallow, unquestioned, anything the Daily Heil says.
According to Customs and Excise the figure for duty lost on spirits was somewhere up to £200 million pounds - that's a lot of spirits. The figure for tobacco is up to £1.8 billion. That's duty evasion on legalized drugs, that have been legalized for a long time. The fantasy that says legalization means the criminals will go away and hand over to the likes of BAT is just that - a fantasy.
Slightly different circumstances. We all know that cigarettes actually cost around 20p a packet and the other is all tax. Same with spirits really. The evasion of duty on cigs and booze is simply a reaction to being ripped off by HMRC.
Legalizing all drugs and giving people a place to go to get their fix begins to address the issue of drugs misuse because you can identify the scale of the problem. The issue is making current illegal drugs available for people to get and NOT have to resort to street dealers.
Big difference.

30 Aug 2010

Quote by awayman
You seem to have signed up to Ken's sneering school of ignorance that asserts that the ability to find information with Google is somehow less meritorious than the desire to swallow, unquestioned, anything the Daily Heil says.

Do you have any other records than the same one you play day after day?? I think Blues comments are valid and you always when pushed have to resort to snidey remarks. I would have thought with your education you would have been above that............obviously not.

Quote by Google
According to Customs and Excise the figure for duty lost on spirits was somewhere up to £200 million pounds - that's a lot of spirits. The figure for tobacco is up to £1.8 billion. That's duty evasion on legalized drugs, that have been legalized for a long time. The fantasy that says legalization means the criminals will go away and hand over to the likes of BAT is just that - a fantasy.

It is an S and not a Z...I hate the bastardisation of the English language.

30 Aug 2010

Quote by awayman
People who can't work out the difference between prohibition and probation are ill-placed to sneer about own goals.
You seem to have signed up to Ken's sneering school of ignorance that asserts that the ability to find information with Google is somehow less meritorious than the desire to swallow, unquestioned, anything the Daily Heil says.
According to Customs and Excise the figure for duty lost on spirits was somewhere up to £200 million pounds - that's a lot of spirits. The figure for tobacco is up to £1.8 billion. That's duty evasion on legalized drugs, that have been legalized for a long time. The fantasy that says legalization means the criminals will go away and hand over to the likes of BAT is just that - a fantasy.

I did not realise I would be marked on my spelling mistakes dunno

If you don't mind I will stick with debating rather than personal attacks

30 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
You seem to have signed up to Ken's sneering school of ignorance that asserts that the ability to find information with Google is somehow less meritorious than the desire to swallow, unquestioned, anything the Daily Heil says.

Do you have any other records than the same one you play day after day?? I think Blues comments are valid and you always when pushed have to resort to snidey remarks. I would have thought with your education you would have been above that............obviously not.

Quote by Google
According to Customs and Excise the figure for duty lost on spirits was somewhere up to £200 million pounds - that's a lot of spirits. The figure for tobacco is up to £1.8 billion. That's duty evasion on legalized drugs, that have been legalized for a long time. The fantasy that says legalization means the criminals will go away and hand over to the likes of BAT is just that - a fantasy.

It is an S and not a Z...I hate the bastardisation of the English language.
I hate the bastardisation of our language I'm not keen on it's americanisation either...I can't begin to count the AMOUNT of times I've thought that..there is an old saying about glass houses...would someone be kind enough to remind me how it goes??

30 Aug 2010

Staggs I am sure that Google is more than capable of coming to his own aid, without the need for his Brother to come to his aid every five minutes.
He is a grown man now ya know.
Let him speak for himself ffs.

30 Aug 2010

It is I fear my solemn and bound duty to point out hypocrisy wherever it may be lol

30 Aug 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It is I fear my solemn and bound duty to point out hypocrisy wherever it may be

Did you have to put your left hand on the bible when you took up the post
(In case read wrong, this is bluefish humer)

30 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
It is I fear my solemn and bound duty to point out hypocrisy wherever it may be

Did you have to put your left hand on the bible when you took up the post
(In case read wrong, this is bluefish humer)
I haven't touched a bible in years blue....nasssssssty thing it burnssssss usssss

30 Aug 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It is I fear my solemn and bound duty to point out hypocrisy wherever it may be

Did you have to put your left hand on the bible when you took up the post
(In case read wrong, this is bluefish humer)
I haven't touched a bible in years blue....nasssssssty thing it burnssssss usssss

30 Aug 2010

Actually Gollum reminds me of someone, but just cannot put my finger on it.

30 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
Actually Gollum reminds me of someone, but just cannot put my finger on it.

One word ......mirror