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should all drugs be classifed class A

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vampanya
Orgasminator
Quote by awayman
OK...
Deep breath...
If we're going to talk about the risk involved in consuming a substance, don't talk about total number of deaths. On any given Saturday night one person might die from Ecstasy, three from alcohol. If you don't know the number of people who have consumed those substances in total, you can't calculate the risk involved. One death from 100,000 people who have taken E makes it much riskier that three people dying of the ten million who have taken alcohol.
Prohibition isn't working, claim some. What are the objectives of prohibition? I'm not sure I know. I'm pretty sure I know that legalization of drugs won't reduce the rate at which they're taken, and it won't persuade the drug sellers to go legit either. So what's the objective of legalization? Tell me the answer and we might know what data we need to assess the proposition.
As for medical marijuana, tell me where the peer reviewed evidence is and I'll start to agree or consider the argument.

I agree too, and for all the reasons above would question what would be gained by classifying all drugs as class A. It wont make the problem any smaller.
Bluefish2009
Sex God
Quote by Ben_welshminx
There are peer reviewed scientific journal articles that explore the medicinal use of marijuana and conclude that on balance it can be pretty effective depending on circumstance.
Abandonment of the prohibition approach to hard drugs will of course stop the dealers in their tracks. Most recreational drugs cost pennies to manufacture and only attract a high premium because of prohibition. Many of the problems with recreational drugs arise because of their high price and variable quality.
I can accept that it is difficult to prove that alcohol carries more or less risk than other recreational drugs. I worry more about my kids hurting themselves with alcohol than other drugs simply because alcohol is cheap, easily obtained, socially acceptable and its associated risks are not widely understood.

I agree with most of what you say Ben
All we can do with alcohol is try to teach our children how to respect it as an aid to socialising, just as I was as a young man by my parents
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by vampanya
OK...
Deep breath...
If we're going to talk about the risk involved in consuming a substance, don't talk about total number of deaths. On any given Saturday night one person might die from Ecstasy, three from alcohol. If you don't know the number of people who have consumed those substances in total, you can't calculate the risk involved. One death from 100,000 people who have taken E makes it much riskier that three people dying of the ten million who have taken alcohol.
Prohibition isn't working, claim some. What are the objectives of prohibition? I'm not sure I know. I'm pretty sure I know that legalization of drugs won't reduce the rate at which they're taken, and it won't persuade the drug sellers to go legit either. So what's the objective of legalization? Tell me the answer and we might know what data we need to assess the proposition.
As for medical marijuana, tell me where the peer reviewed evidence is and I'll start to agree or consider the argument.

I agree too, and for all the reasons above would question what would be gained by classifying all drugs as class A. It wont make the problem any smaller.
You’re never going to stop the problem
My point really is not how to stop the problem and more about how different smoked substances have become
With current THC levels the drugs are creating a psychotic and schizophrenic culture with added mental problems as the users continue to use it
A lot of the people I grew up with who smoke dope have become slow in responding during conversation some serious lack of logical and lateral thinking
And any sort of reasoned argument is lost
a couple we know sold up went to India to party for six months then came back and blamed everyone body but then selves for the position they was now in. i.e.: homeless ,no money ,and no furniture,
Given they are in their forties with grand kids etc in the end I couldn't have a conversation with them without them getting angry at me dunno
Yet if you say to them cut the puff out they go into a frenzy about how good it for them against something like alcohol
I now find myself distancing myself from some very old friends because of this sort of behavior and tend to avoid their company
Which is a great shame really
Bluefish2009
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
OK...
Deep breath...
If we're going to talk about the risk involved in consuming a substance, don't talk about total number of deaths. On any given Saturday night one person might die from Ecstasy, three from alcohol. If you don't know the number of people who have consumed those substances in total, you can't calculate the risk involved. One death from 100,000 people who have taken E makes it much riskier that three people dying of the ten million who have taken alcohol.
Prohibition isn't working, claim some. What are the objectives of prohibition? I'm not sure I know. I'm pretty sure I know that legalization of drugs won't reduce the rate at which they're taken, and it won't persuade the drug sellers to go legit either. So what's the objective of legalization? Tell me the answer and we might know what data we need to assess the proposition.
As for medical marijuana, tell me where the peer reviewed evidence is and I'll start to agree or consider the argument.

I agree too, and for all the reasons above would question what would be gained by classifying all drugs as class A. It wont make the problem any smaller.
You’re never going to stop the problem
My point really is not how to stop the problem and more about how different smoked substances have become
With current THC levels the drugs are creating a psychotic and schizophrenic culture with added mental problems as the users continue to use it
A lot of the people I grew up with who smoke dope have become slow in responding during conversation some serious lack of logical and lateral thinking
And any sort of reasoned argument is lost
a couple we know sold up went to India to party for six months then came back and blamed everyone body but then selves for the position they was now in. i.e.: homeless ,no money ,and no furniture,
Given they are in their forties with grand kids etc in the end I couldn't have a conversation with them without them getting angry at me dunno
Yet if you say to them cut the puff out they go into a frenzy about how good it for them against something like alcohol
I now find myself distancing myself from some very old friends because of this sort of behavior and tend to avoid their company
Which is a great shame really
:giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle:
Are they on the SH forum?
duncanlondon
Sex God
i think the main thing to think about whether things are legal or not, is how much control is achieved. drugs, drink, crimes etc haven't been eradicated, just undergone various conditions of control.
without these thing we all like, we would have less economic turnover and subsequently a poorer lifestyle. stuff keeps us not only buzzing when its consumed, but keeps us out and about striving to maintain its supply.
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by duncanlondon
i think the main thing to think about whether things are legal or not, is how much control is achieved. drugs, drink, crimes etc haven't been eradicated, just undergone various conditions of control.
without these thing we all like, we would have less economic turnover and subsequently a poorer lifestyle. stuff keeps us not only buzzing when its consumed, but keeps us out and about striving to maintain its supply.

commonly burglary ,theft, shoplifting and mugging where drugs are involved
vampanya
Orgasminator
I might suggest then that the thread is not about reclassifying all drugs but specifically cannabis?
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by darkest_desires
Personally - I'd go the other way and completely legalise all drugs.
Prohibition doesn't work, and never has. Criminalising drug users / addicts only compounds the problem - like with your friend, used to be switched on/pro active chap, now the drugs have taken hold but our only response is to criminalise the addicts making them unemployable and pigeon holing them.
I have to wonder if it really achieves anything by giving youngsters criminal records for having cannabis on them, or any other drug for that matter. I believe it should be illegal to supply people under the age of 21 with any drug but after 21 we should be able to make our own choices.
The intention behind the drugs laws are good on paper, ie try to stop people from harming themselves, however it's been shown that it doesn't work. You can't make everything illegal because someone might die from it. Bubble was legal up to this year, kids were using it as a high, so the Government made it illegal. It's still being used, however now a drug called NRG is also coming in to the fore which is currently legal. The government's response will be to make this illegal as well - where does it stop ? Are we going to make climbing trees illegal because kids fall out of them and injure themselves.
I haven't got statistics to hand, but far more illnesses, deaths and violent disorder can be attributed to alcohol - so why is this drug legal but others aren't ? My view is that alcohol has become an accepted drug by society, so it is tolerated but the public's fear on other drugs is largely unsubstantiated, largely due to a lack of knowledge.
The drugs problem will not be solved by the criminal justice system but by the health system in providing support, and the education system by providing er, education.

probably due to the fact that some one driving down the motor way in 40 tonne truck goofing out at the wheel on heroin
is a scary thought indeed
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by vampanya
I might suggest then that the thread is not about reclassifying all drugs but specifically cannabis?

my points and experiences are mainly with cannabis users
but pretty much all illicit drugs should be classified the same
vampanya
Orgasminator
Even though all illicit drugs have massivly varying effects on society (crime levels etc), and individuals health?
Taking two of the extremes I would say that it's barmy to have the same classification for unprescribed prescription sleeping tablets as crack cocaine. They're both illicit drugs, both just as illegal. The both have VERY different impacts so why would they be classed the same?
vampanya
Orgasminator
Quote by Lizaleanrob
I might suggest then that the thread is not about reclassifying all drugs but specifically cannabis?

my points and experiences are mainly with cannabis users
but pretty much all illicit drugs should be classified the same
That was why I suggested the thread was specific to cannabis.
There are different arguments for different substances. Cannabis is perhaps the most contraversial of them all as its seen by many as harmless and non addictive. The medicinal arguement I belive should be looked at totally separately.
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by vampanya
Even though all illicit drugs have massivly varying effects on society (crime levels etc), and individuals health?
Taking two of the extremes I would say that it's barmy to have the same classification for unprescribed prescription sleeping tablets as crack cocaine. They're both illicit drugs, both just as illegal. The both have VERY different impacts so why would they be classed the same?

agreed
my op really was to the classification of already banned substances and not prescription drugs (my bad redface)
as you rightly say whats wrong with the cultivation of cannabis for medicinal purpose if prescribed
added the fact the thc levels don't need to be high the cannabis would be relatively safe in comparison to whats on the street
Unknown User
I need to make a point about prescription sleeping tablets.
I have done a lot of work with rehab groups. Most (about 8 out of 10) of the people who come to rehab are addicted to alcohol or have an alcohol dependency. Of these the vast majority have an associated dependence on sleeping tablets or tranquillisers provided on prescription by their GP.
Its very rare to come across anybody with a marijuana addiction or dependency. Whether this is because the substance is less "addictive" or its because stoners cant be arseed to go to rehab or dont get the same social or health problems as boozers I dont know.
vampanya
Orgasminator
Quote by Lizaleanrob
Even though all illicit drugs have massivly varying effects on society (crime levels etc), and individuals health?
Taking two of the extremes I would say that it's barmy to have the same classification for unprescribed prescription sleeping tablets as crack cocaine. They're both illicit drugs, both just as illegal. The both have VERY different impacts so why would they be classed the same?

agreed
my op really was to the classification of already banned substances and not prescription drugs (my bad redface)
as you rightly say whats wrong with the cultivation of cannabis for medicinal purpose if prescribed
added the fact the thc levels don't need to be high the cannabis would be relatively safe in comparison to whats on the street
My point about prescription drugs though is this, if they're not prescribed - ie bought on the black market, they are illegal and currently subject to the same classification system as other illegal drugs.
Ben, you're absolutely right, sleeping pills and tranquillisers are far more addictive than cannabis. Prescription addiction is another huge problem.
Cannabis is said to not be addictive. That only means that it has no chemical addictive properties though. I know plenty of people who cant go without a joint. They are well and truely addicted and have been for years. Perhaps to the feeling of smoking weed or being stoned rather than any chemical addiction, but addicted they are nevertheless. It's possible to be addicted to anything at all. Some people are addicted to chocolate.
I think the biggest danger of cannabis is the misconception that its a safe drug. I remember in my teens learning that a lethal dose of cannabis was a 20kg block dropped on your head from a great height, in other words there is no lethal dose. I learned that you cant get addicted to it, and that it's so much better for you than drinking. It's herbal, its natural, its harmless.
ANY drug used long term and/or in large quantities has long term effects. The long term use of cannabis is only fairly recently being seen in terms of damage it does. And I'm as sad as Rob is to say that I've seen it first hand in friends.
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by vampanya
Even though all illicit drugs have massivly varying effects on society (crime levels etc), and individuals health?
Taking two of the extremes I would say that it's barmy to have the same classification for unprescribed prescription sleeping tablets as crack cocaine. They're both illicit drugs, both just as illegal. The both have VERY different impacts so why would they be classed the same?

agreed
my op really was to the classification of already banned substances and not prescription drugs (my bad redface)
as you rightly say whats wrong with the cultivation of cannabis for medicinal purpose if prescribed
added the fact the thc levels don't need to be high the cannabis would be relatively safe in comparison to whats on the street
My point about prescription drugs though is this, if they're not prescribed - ie bought on the black market, they are illegal and currently subject to the same classification system as other illegal drugs.
Ben, you're absolutely right, sleeping pills and tranquillisers are far more addictive than cannabis. Prescription addiction is another huge problem.
Cannabis is said to not be addictive. That only means that it has no chemical addictive properties though. I know plenty of people who cant go without a joint. They are well and truely addicted and have been for years. Perhaps to the feeling of smoking weed or being stoned rather than any chemical addiction, but addicted they are nevertheless. It's possible to be addicted to anything at all. Some people are addicted to chocolate.
I think the biggest danger of cannabis is the misconception that its a safe drug. I remember in my teens learning that a lethal dose of cannabis was a 20kg block dropped on your head from a great height, in other words there is no lethal dose. I learned that you cant get addicted to it, and that it's so much better for you than drinking. It's herbal, its natural, its harmless.
ANY drug used long term and/or in large quantities has long term effects. The long term use of cannabis is only fairly recently being seen in terms of damage it does. And I'm as sad as Rob is to say that I've seen it first hand in friends.
:thumbup::thumbup:
Unknown User
I am sorry to labour the point but I know far more folk who are alcohol dependent than marijuana dependant in any of the social groups I belong to.
I see no reason to worry about one drug more simply because it is a less popular and less socially entrenched choice.
GnV
Sex God
Quote by Ben_welshminx
I am sorry to labour the point but I know far more folk who are alcohol dependent than marijuana dependant in any of the social groups I belong to.
I see no reason to worry about one drug more simply because it is a less popular and less socially entrenched choice.

There are none of either in any of the social groups I belong to...
Am I missing something or just mixing with the wrong sort of people?
vampanya
Orgasminator
There is a massive alcohol problem also, that's not in dispute. But this thread was about illegal drugs and as all to often happens the cannabis debate always ends up being compromised with comparrison to alcohol.
Pot smokers ALWAYS say its better and safer than alcohol, they might well be right but the point isn't how good it is compared to alcohol, it's how safe/dangerous it is compared to nothing.
Unknown User
Quote by GnV
Am I missing something or just mixing with the wrong sort of people?

No Gnv.......you are mixing with the right sort of people.
Bluefish2009
Sex God
Quote by Ben_welshminx
I am sorry to labour the point but I know far more folk who are alcohol dependent than marijuana dependant in any of the social groups I belong to.
I see no reason to worry about one drug more simply because it is a less popular and less socially entrenched choice.

I have known lots of people who smoke marijuana, not one of them became dependant. They all grew out of it, so to speak.
Equally though, I know many more who drink alcohol and as best I can tell none of them are dependant either. But it is not some thing they are going to grow out of though
Unknown User
Quote by Ben_welshminx
I am sorry to labour the point but I know far more folk who are alcohol dependent than marijuana dependant in any of the social groups I belong to.
I see no reason to worry about one drug more simply because it is a less popular and less socially entrenched choice.

And I agree.
I just don't see enough evidence being offered that a change will achieve anything.
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?
BAT or someone will launch a properly regulated and safety tested product. It'll be consistent, effective and the price will reflect the safety and quality processes required to sell the drug on the open market.
Organized Crime PLC will, on the other hand, carry on growing unregulated cannabis in vacant houses or industrial units, and will market it as 'the real thing'. So we'll still have to police those producers, and users who prefer the slightly cheaper unlicensed product to the safe, sanitized, taxed and regulated product.
So can anyone tell me how we'll be any better off?
Unknown User
Fair points but whta if we allow home grown just as we allow home brew.
Bluefish2009
Sex God
Quote by Ben_welshminx
Fair points but whta if we allow home grown just as we allow home brew.


Nice idea, but how does one regulate it? how much is for your own use and when could it become comercial?
GnV
Sex God
Quote by awayman
snip ...
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?

If its legalised, won't it then be legal? dunno
Bluefish2009
Sex God
Quote by GnV
snip ...
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?

If its legalised, won't it then be legal? dunno
Oh yea :doh:
Unknown User
Quote by Bluefish2009
Fair points but whta if we allow home grown just as we allow home brew.


Nice idea, but how does one regulate it? how much is for your own use and when could it become comercial?
In the Netherlands, and some other countries and US states, citizens are allowed to grow a maximum of 10 plants per person. 5 in vegetative stage, and 5 in flowering stage. Indoor growing is very easy and cheap, so there is little if no need for street dealers.
Unknown User
Quote by GnV
snip ...
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?

If its legalised, won't it then be legal? dunno
Only if they pay taxes, do health and safety checks, have a testing and quality programme, pay VAT and taxes....
You can see why organized crime would choose to stay illegal....
Bluefish2009
Sex God
Quote by awayman
snip ...
If we legalize cannabis will illegal producers stop producing?

If its legalised, won't it then be legal? dunno
Only if they pay taxes, do health and safety checks, have a testing and quality programme, pay VAT and taxes....
You can see why organized crime would choose to stay illegal....
So how have we managed to sort this dilemma with alcohol?