as we all know now...Sky has sacked Andy Gray over various alledged sexist remarks.
Question is....do you think it is right ?
I have to say, seeing the remarks, ( which were not broadcast or meant for braodcast ) I think it was just off the cuff silly boys macho attempts at humour. Surely this goes on, all over the place. Women say we men can't muti-task, and suffer man flu........and in turn we say they don't understand the offside rule. Surely, a gentle rap over the knuckles and told to keep stop being so silly, would have been more appropiate. Or is this now the start of watching every word you say in the work place, in fear of being called sexist and sacked ??
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should Andy Gray have been sacked ???
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Master of Sex
I've heard the recordings too and I don't think there was much humour involved. The tone of Gray's and Keys' voices were quite nasty and sneering, in my opinion. They sounded genuinely annoyed about the temerity of having a female official taking part in a Premiership match.
It's easy for them to backtrack after the event and say they were joking but I'm afraid they've showed their true colours. This is the straw that broke the camel's back as far as Sky Sports were concerned. Remember they've had 'previous' when they were covering the Ladies FA Cup Final a few years back, taking the piss out of the quality of the play.
Is sexism as bad as racism? Ron Atkinson was sacked by ITV following his racist (off-air)comments about Marcel Desailly, I don't know anyone who condoned that, so why should Gray and Keys be any different?
As we used to sing back in the late 70's:
"Hark now hear the West Brom sing
A king is born today,
His name is Cyrille Regis
And he's better than Andy Gray". :twisted:
It's easy for them to backtrack after the event and say they were joking but I'm afraid they've showed their true colours. This is the straw that broke the camel's back as far as Sky Sports were concerned. Remember they've had 'previous' when they were covering the Ladies FA Cup Final a few years back, taking the piss out of the quality of the play.
Is sexism as bad as racism? Ron Atkinson was sacked by ITV following his racist (off-air)comments about Marcel Desailly, I don't know anyone who condoned that, so why should Gray and Keys be any different?
As we used to sing back in the late 70's:
"Hark now hear the West Brom sing
A king is born today,
His name is Cyrille Regis
And he's better than Andy Gray". :twisted:
Sex God
It wasn't the sexist comments that were the big problem. We all indulge in a bot of private stereotype-banter. And everyone knows Andy Gray is a moron anyway.
The problem with what they said was this. They were commentating on a sporting fixture, she was an offical of that fixture. They should have FELT respect for the human in that position, let alone expressed it. OK everyone slags off the officials when decisions don't favour their team, but no-one truly believes the game would be better without them. When we accept regulation of something like this we must accept the regulators and show them courtesy, not turn into pathetic neanderthals at the sight of said regulator and attack them on a meaningless basis like gender.
It's not what they said - it's the postion they said it about. How can we teach the youngsters playing in school teams to respect the officials when they hear this crap?
The FA, officials and players have been fighting for years to kick racism out of football. Why is sexism 'just a bit of banter'?
The problem with what they said was this. They were commentating on a sporting fixture, she was an offical of that fixture. They should have FELT respect for the human in that position, let alone expressed it. OK everyone slags off the officials when decisions don't favour their team, but no-one truly believes the game would be better without them. When we accept regulation of something like this we must accept the regulators and show them courtesy, not turn into pathetic neanderthals at the sight of said regulator and attack them on a meaningless basis like gender.
It's not what they said - it's the postion they said it about. How can we teach the youngsters playing in school teams to respect the officials when they hear this crap?
The FA, officials and players have been fighting for years to kick racism out of football. Why is sexism 'just a bit of banter'?
ok, here's a few conspiracy theories:
1a. gray is suing NoW (owned by murdoch)
1b. gray works for BSkyB (murdoch is trying to take ownership thereof, currently being rebuffed)
1c. murdoch sends a message to bskyb, mess with me and you go down
1d. next step - horses head in BSkyB Chief's bed.
2a. gray and keys have obviously upset someone
2b. said party leaks tapes to get their own back
3a. Sky want to sack gray and keys but too expensive
3b. said party leaks tapes to get them to resign
4a. amdy gray is a bit of a twat.
5a. they were unlucky- they made a mistake without a doubt but an on-screen apology should have been enough imho.
disclaimer - 1 is probably true, 1 is possibly true, 3 are just conspiracy theories so by definition are just nonsense - figure it out yourself
1a. gray is suing NoW (owned by murdoch)
1b. gray works for BSkyB (murdoch is trying to take ownership thereof, currently being rebuffed)
1c. murdoch sends a message to bskyb, mess with me and you go down
1d. next step - horses head in BSkyB Chief's bed.
2a. gray and keys have obviously upset someone
2b. said party leaks tapes to get their own back
3a. Sky want to sack gray and keys but too expensive
3b. said party leaks tapes to get them to resign
4a. amdy gray is a bit of a twat.
5a. they were unlucky- they made a mistake without a doubt but an on-screen apology should have been enough imho.
disclaimer - 1 is probably true, 1 is possibly true, 3 are just conspiracy theories so by definition are just nonsense - figure it out yourself
Quote by deancannock
I have to say, seeing the remarks, ( which were not broadcast or meant for braodcast ) I think it was just off the cuff silly boys macho attempts at humour.
Dean,
In the thread http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/357094.html where a Christian couple get fined for refusing a gay couple a double room because it was against their religion you appear to advocate a zero tolerance approach...
Quote by deancannock
You should not be able to discrimiate on grounds of colour, religion, age, or sexual preferance. Simple.
Why then can Andy Gray be allowed to make sexist remarks (which were not broadcast or meant for broadcast)?
spidey......I am totally against discrimination on grounds of colour, sex, religion or sexuality....100%. However I do read and have a laugh at sexist jokes sent to me for example and quite often pass them on. I don't believe this is discrimination !!! The question is where do you draw the line ? When is it harmless banter and when is it discrimination? As stated before, how many women joke that men can't multi-task ? or joke that a male collegue is off with MAN flu ? Is this now to be deemed discrimination ?
The case of the hotel is clearly discrimination. They were allowed to book on the phone, but when they turned up as two gay men, they were told they couldn't have the room ? No banter or joke there.
It is quite interesting to note, that it looks like Sky are going to pay them off, rather than have the case go to an unfair dismissal tribunal.
As an aside, I do think this has put womens equality of football back. Had sky shown the comments, rapped the knuckles of them both, and showed as they did, that she got a very close, borderline offside call, spot on.....then we would all have remembered what a good offical she was. However now, she will be remembered as the woman that got Andy Gray sacked, and every decision she makes, will be scrutinized !!
The case of the hotel is clearly discrimination. They were allowed to book on the phone, but when they turned up as two gay men, they were told they couldn't have the room ? No banter or joke there.
It is quite interesting to note, that it looks like Sky are going to pay them off, rather than have the case go to an unfair dismissal tribunal.
As an aside, I do think this has put womens equality of football back. Had sky shown the comments, rapped the knuckles of them both, and showed as they did, that she got a very close, borderline offside call, spot on.....then we would all have remembered what a good offical she was. However now, she will be remembered as the woman that got Andy Gray sacked, and every decision she makes, will be scrutinized !!
On the one hand
No they should not have been sacked - people make these comments all the time (and much worse), whether is be about gender, sex, race, and whatever else. In and of themselves they are harmless remarks especially if they are the subject of private banter and not for public consumption. I do not believe it is right or proper that a person should be persecuted for their private views.
On the other hand
Sky were completely right to sack them, as retaining them in their positions is tacit approval of their views and OFCOM would have been involved at some point looking at the company code of practice. Sky had to take this action to ratify their own position within the broadcasting market, especially where a breach of standards is concerned.
My personal view is that people who make these comments rely on the "joke" excuse, because they know they are wrong to express the view, irrespective of whether they believe anyone will be offended or not. I believe that Andy Gray genuinely subscribes to the views that he expresses - he is a relic from a bygone era. In any event - as TV presenters they should have been more careful in an environment that specifically exists for the sole purpose of recording and transmitting voices and images. There was only one way this was ever going.
No they should not have been sacked - people make these comments all the time (and much worse), whether is be about gender, sex, race, and whatever else. In and of themselves they are harmless remarks especially if they are the subject of private banter and not for public consumption. I do not believe it is right or proper that a person should be persecuted for their private views.
On the other hand
Sky were completely right to sack them, as retaining them in their positions is tacit approval of their views and OFCOM would have been involved at some point looking at the company code of practice. Sky had to take this action to ratify their own position within the broadcasting market, especially where a breach of standards is concerned.
My personal view is that people who make these comments rely on the "joke" excuse, because they know they are wrong to express the view, irrespective of whether they believe anyone will be offended or not. I believe that Andy Gray genuinely subscribes to the views that he expresses - he is a relic from a bygone era. In any event - as TV presenters they should have been more careful in an environment that specifically exists for the sole purpose of recording and transmitting voices and images. There was only one way this was ever going.
Sex God
i cant belive you guys think chauvinism is still alive in football
Sex God
I'm so sad to be leaving a company that I've served for over 20 years and a job that I've loved doing. However, as I'm sacked anyway, I might as well tell you the story about my friend that I was going to tell on air next week.
You see, she got a job as a teacher of physical education to a group of teenage boys.
One day she notices a boy in the field standing alone at one end of the field, while all the other kids are running around at the other end having fun.
She takes pity on him and decides to speak to him.
"You ok sweetheart?" she says.
"Yes Miss" he replies.
"'You can go and play with the other kids if you want" she says.
"It's best I stay here Miss. " he says.
"Why?" asks the blonde.
The boy replies: "Because I'm the f***ing goal keeper"
Yours sincerely.
Andy Gray
You see, she got a job as a teacher of physical education to a group of teenage boys.
One day she notices a boy in the field standing alone at one end of the field, while all the other kids are running around at the other end having fun.
She takes pity on him and decides to speak to him.
"You ok sweetheart?" she says.
"Yes Miss" he replies.
"'You can go and play with the other kids if you want" she says.
"It's best I stay here Miss. " he says.
"Why?" asks the blonde.
The boy replies: "Because I'm the f***ing goal keeper"
Yours sincerely.
Andy Gray
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