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Should schools be made to buy British?

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Should schools be made to buy British?

I wondered what you guys thought. I am not sure they should be made to, but I do feel they should know where the products come from.
A separate survey of 2,799 adults, commissioned by the foundation, found that 61 per cent of those questioned believe that schools should be made to buy British meat products, even if it costs more money.
difficult one really. Schools do have a budget, and like every where else they are being squeesed. I would like to think they would try where-ever possible not only to buy British, but to support local farmers. This would mean the produce was fresh as well, and even keep the carbon footprint down, as it would only be transported from locally.
However I also have to say, I can fully understand that if the choice was between more expensive British meat...or more upto date text books for the kids...then I can fully understand them going with cheaper importer meats !!
I don't know enough really about the price differance, but schools do have to get, and are expected to get, value for money in the end.
So think I would say..no should not be forced....but certainly should be encouraged .
Quote by deancannock
difficult one really. Schools do have a budget, and like every where else they are being squeesed. I would like to think they would try where-ever possible not only to buy British, but to support local farmers. This would mean the produce was fresh as well, and even keep the carbon footprint down, as it would only be transported from locally.
However I also have to say, I can fully understand that if the choice was between more expensive British meat...or more upto date text books for the kids...then I can fully understand them going with cheaper importer meats !!
I don't know enough really about the price differance, but schools do have to get, and are expected to get, value for money in the end.
So think I would say..no should not be forced....but certainly should be encouraged .

I agree :thumbup:
Lasagne, cottage/sheperds pie, mince etc are usually quorn in schools. So it is not even meat.
The meat is sourced through County Level and comes in vac packed and ready to boil in the bag or ding meal it.
Dave_Notts
No, schools should not be made to buy British, why should they when no other Government sponsored business has to ? even British Prisons buy Halal meat for all inmates so they don't upset Muslims (who could eat the vegetarian option that many others have to eat on religious or dietry grounds)
Schools should but the things that are best suited to educate British children to the best of thier abilities.
Cost has to be taken into consideration but it would be nice to think they source the "best for the job" and not always the cheapest.
Perhaps it would be better to make them buy everything from Pakistan since we recently gave Pakistan £750million for thier education program they must have some pretty good kit kicking about wink
Buying British doesn't mean NOT buying Halal ffs. Catering for different dietary requirements/preferences is part and parcel of feeding people.
I voted Yes - but I wish there was an option for "Yes - where possible/sensible".
It is impossible to buy British pepper, tea, coffee and many other items. They simply don't grow here. And providing a tempting range of veg right through winter is extremely hard if you are limited to British.
What I would like to see is schools, hospitals, prisons etc sourcing as much as possible, not only British, but local - truly local. Prisons and schools can even grow some of their own. If local isn't available, then seasonal AND British and only if that's impossible - from collectives, Fair Trade sources and small producers who benefit in a tangible way from the trade.
The food should be varied, tasty and introduce kids to foods from other places - not just the UK and the homelands of children from incomer families. Different things - interesting things.
And all schools - every damned one of them - should have their own kitchens and cook proper food fresh and on the premises. I'd allow neighbouring schools to share facilities - especially foods that can be sensibly transported a short distance once cooked - like lasagne and cakes. But feeding our children mass produced and reheated food is not acceptable - I doubt many do at home, at least most of the time. And kids whose parents think a nuked frozen pizza or a bag of chips is mainstay of a diet for a growing child will at least get some decent meals during the year.
I'm also strongly in favour of breakfast clubs - I heard a report the GCSE students invited to a breakfst club prior to each of their exams got a real benefit. Can't lay my hands in the report sadly.
Quote by MidsCouple24
even British Prisons buy Halal meat for all inmates so they don't upset Muslims (who could eat the vegetarian option that many others have to eat on religious or dietry grounds)

With apologies to Blue for the slight hijack ((( Sorry Blue! ))) I've seen you make this statement before. I'd like some evidence for it please? Prison food budgets run at around per inmate per day in adult gaols, out of which they have to make a cold breakfast pack, a sandwich pack or hot meal for lunch, then hot main evening meal. They will offer a Halal option for the two main meals. I've heard it said that Muslims have a higher dietary budget allotted to them than non-Muslims to allow for that, and I have heard anecdotally that many prisoners opt for the Halal option, believing it to be better quality as sourced at a higher price. I have never seen any evidence for that, and believe it to be false. I think it has to be catered for out of the same daily food budget allowance per prisoner. I also believe it to be false that prisons generally buy more expensive Halal meat and serve it universally so as not to offend the Muslims.
There may be economies of scale in some prisons, that are perhaps well served by Halal wholesalers in their local area happy to offer prices lower than their non-Muslim competitors, and so they buy all their meat from them, intended for Muslim and non-Muslim prisoners alike, but that is not 'so they don't upset Muslims'. It's because prisons source their food on the open market, from local wholesalers, and buy on price.
Having said all that, what makes you think Halal meat isn't British produce, or is less likely to be British produce just because of the way it's killed?
N x x x ;)
Quote by neilinleeds
I also believe it to be false that prisons generally buy more expensive Halal meat and serve it universally so as not to offend the Muslims.
you reely think that neil? well is this a reliable enough source for you?


Quote by neilinleeds
There may be economies of scale in some prisons, that are perhaps well served by Halal wholesalers in their local area happy to offer prices lower than their non-Muslim competitors, and so they buy all their meat from them, intended for Muslim and non-Muslim prisoners alike, but that is not 'so they don't upset Muslims'. It's because prisons source their food on the open market, from local wholesalers, and buy on price.

interesting neil. i certainly do not think at times it is brought on price neil, it is a i was told that it is brought regardless of cost, just as long as they were given halal meet and were not offended, then price never came into it.
an interesting story.

Quote by neilinleeds
Having said all that, what makes you think Halal meat isn't British produce, or is less likely to be British produce just because of the way it's killed?

would it be legal under the animal rights act, to slaughter an animal in this way in a british abattoir? i might be wrong but i would have thought no, please correct me if i am wrong on this one neil.
like all religions neil, they use there religion to suit there own purposes.
" "There are differences of opinion about eating non-halal meat. Some people say it's OK to eat chicken, lamb or beef which has not been slaughtered according to Islamic law but most Muslims will insist on eating only halal."
if this is correct neil then surely the whole process is going to be far more expensive? not only the sourcing of it, but everything else compares to other meats?
Quote by starlightcouple
would it be legal under the animal rights act, to slaughter an animal in this way in a british abattoir? i might be wrong but i would have thought no, please correct me if i am wrong on this one neil.

You're wrong.
Quote by Jewlnmart

would it be legal under the animal rights act, to slaughter an animal in this way in a british abattoir? i might be wrong but i would have thought no, please correct me if i am wrong on this one neil.

You're wrong.

thankyou very much jewinmart. i hope you notice the bit above that i have put in bold.
but i found this very interesting for those who do not know.
I'm sorry. I thought this was a thread about where food should be sourced. If I had realised it was just an opportunity for the 'muslims get everything they want' ranters I wouldn't have bothered putting down a reasoned argument about sourcing local, healthy options for school children. banghead
Quote by foxylady2209
I'm sorry. I thought this was a thread about where food should be sourced. If I had realised it was just an opportunity for the 'muslims get everything they want' ranters I wouldn't have bothered putting down a reasoned argument about sourcing local, healthy options for school children. banghead

ok as a fare argument foxy lady, i have taken this from the original link that was posted.
" The foundation said that Freedom of Information requests (FOI) to 172 local education authorities in the UK had found that just 60 (35 per cent) know the country of origin of the food they source to serve in schools ".
now i find this a worry as 65 per cent obviusly do not know where the food is sourced from. they spend far too much time working out about low salt contents in there sausages.
" "We also meet and support many of the School Food Trust's initiatives as well as assist manufacturers of assured red meats to produce foods that are low in fat and salt and ideal for school menus ".
great but still 65 per cent fail to know where it is sourced from. i have no children at school anymore thank goodness but if i did i would want to know where the meat is soursed from, and also that the animal was killed in a way as not to just satisfy others religions, but in a way where i as a british person would want the animal about the cost.
buying british is a more sure way of knowing where the meat is souced surely? it may not always be the least expensive but where food is concerned especially in schools, should cost be the major over riding factor? i beleeve it should not be.
knowing where the food comes from surely does not come before cost does it?
Quote by starlightcouple
<snip>
knowing where the food comes from surely does not come before cost does it?

No, I agree. But it shold definitely be a similarly significant part of the decision making process. Local doesn't have to equal more expensive anyway.
Personally I don't think we should be permitting the import of ANY foods that are cannot prove they are produced to the same standards that WE force OUR producers to attain. For anyone - let alone schools etc.
Quote by starlightcouple
buying british is a more sure way of knowing where the meat is souced surely?

No. Current legislation means that the country of origin on a label will most likely be where the meat last underwent a major process. So you can legitmately label a joint of meat as British if the imported whole carcass was cut here. Likewise an animal can be imported live to the UK and as long as it's been in the UK for , I believe, around 80 days can be labelled as British.
Quote by Dave__Notts
Lasagne, cottage/sheperds pie, mince etc are usually quorn in schools. So it is not even meat.
The meat is sourced through County Level and comes in vac packed and ready to boil in the bag or ding meal it.
Dave_Notts

Our local primary school serves real meat in the above highlighted pies, below is the company that makes them. Where possible all foods are sourced locally.

A few people have mentioned price of the food and the price of food against the price of books. When I first read that I thought it made sense, but on reflection it does not, what price do we put on children's health.
Quote by foxylady2209
Buying British doesn't mean NOT buying Halal ffs. Catering for different dietary requirements/preferences is part and parcel of feeding people.
I voted Yes - but I wish there was an option for "Yes - where possible/sensible".
It is impossible to buy British pepper, tea, coffee and many other items. They simply don't grow here. And providing a tempting range of veg right through winter is extremely hard if you are limited to British.
What I would like to see is schools, hospitals, prisons etc sourcing as much as possible, not only British, but local - truly local. Prisons and schools can even grow some of their own. If local isn't available, then seasonal AND British and only if that's impossible - from collectives, Fair Trade sources and small producers who benefit in a tangible way from the trade.
The food should be varied, tasty and introduce kids to foods from other places - not just the UK and the homelands of children from incomer families. Different things - interesting things.
And all schools - every damned one of them - should have their own kitchens and cook proper food fresh and on the premises. I'd allow neighbouring schools to share facilities - especially foods that can be sensibly transported a short distance once cooked - like lasagne and cakes. But feeding our children mass produced and reheated food is not acceptable - I doubt many do at home, at least most of the time. And kids whose parents think a nuked frozen pizza or a bag of chips is mainstay of a diet for a growing child will at least get some decent meals during the year.
I'm also strongly in favour of breakfast clubs - I heard a report the GCSE students invited to a breakfst club prior to each of their exams got a real benefit. Can't lay my hands in the report sadly.

FFS errr calm down please this is a disussion forum not your house, there is no need to swear at me.
I pointed out the Halal meat served in prisons because it is obvious that using such meat is probably not the wisest spending consideration and that other better priced non-halal meats may be available, an example that we not only don't use the "local purchase" option but also that we will pay higher for British products where it is deemed "in the interests of the minority" let alone where it is in the interests of the majority.
Proof you ask, it was a question raised at a prisoner/warden discussion group held at the prison I was serving my time, another inmate asked why we have to eat Halal meat and the warden gave the answer, because we find it easier to have one type of prepared meat for all inmates rather than source to individual needs and my use of the example was not to highlight muslim needs over non muslim needs it was in relation to the subject of Government bodies choosing to purchase products which better serve the needs of the establishment, therefore supporting that schools could do the same if it is deemed that buying British Products would better suit the Nation
Quote by neilinleeds
even British Prisons buy Halal meat for all inmates so they don't upset Muslims (who could eat the vegetarian option that many others have to eat on religious or dietry grounds)

With apologies to Blue for the slight hijack ((( Sorry Blue! ))) I've seen you make this statement before. I'd like some evidence for it please? Prison food budgets run at around per inmate per day in adult gaols, out of which they have to make a cold breakfast pack, a sandwich pack or hot meal for lunch, then hot main evening meal. They will offer a Halal option for the two main meals. I've heard it said that Muslims have a higher dietary budget allotted to them than non-Muslims to allow for that, and I have heard anecdotally that many prisoners opt for the Halal option, believing it to be better quality as sourced at a higher price. I have never seen any evidence for that, and believe it to be false. I think it has to be catered for out of the same daily food budget allowance per prisoner. I also believe it to be false that prisons generally buy more expensive Halal meat and serve it universally so as not to offend the Muslims.
There may be economies of scale in some prisons, that are perhaps well served by Halal wholesalers in their local area happy to offer prices lower than their non-Muslim competitors, and so they buy all their meat from them, intended for Muslim and non-Muslim prisoners alike, but that is not 'so they don't upset Muslims'. It's because prisons source their food on the open market, from local wholesalers, and buy on price.
Having said all that, what makes you think Halal meat isn't British produce, or is less likely to be British produce just because of the way it's killed?
N x x x ;)
Quote by neilinleeds
even British Prisons buy Halal meat for all inmates so they don't upset Muslims (who could eat the vegetarian option that many others have to eat on religious or dietry grounds)

With apologies to Blue for the slight hijack ((( Sorry Blue! ))) I've seen you make this statement before. I'd like some evidence for it please? Prison food budgets run at around per inmate per day in adult gaols, out of which they have to make a cold breakfast pack, a sandwich pack or hot meal for lunch, then hot main evening meal. They will offer a Halal option for the two main meals. I've heard it said that Muslims have a higher dietary budget allotted to them than non-Muslims to allow for that, and I have heard anecdotally that many prisoners opt for the Halal option, believing it to be better quality as sourced at a higher price. I have never seen any evidence for that, and believe it to be false. I think it has to be catered for out of the same daily food budget allowance per prisoner. I also believe it to be false that prisons generally buy more expensive Halal meat and serve it universally so as not to offend the Muslims.
There may be economies of scale in some prisons, that are perhaps well served by Halal wholesalers in their local area happy to offer prices lower than their non-Muslim competitors, and so they buy all their meat from them, intended for Muslim and non-Muslim prisoners alike, but that is not 'so they don't upset Muslims'. It's because prisons source their food on the open market, from local wholesalers, and buy on price.
Having said all that, what makes you think Halal meat isn't British produce, or is less likely to be British produce just because of the way it's killed?
N x x x ;)
No apologies required, I like the way threads ebb and flow lol
Hospitals are just the same it would seam
After seeing PETA video, I really don't like the idea of my children eating halal meat. I am no vegie, but like to think the animals are stunned before slaughter. NOT trying to insult anyone here, just my opinion.
Quote by BrightonGeezer
After seeing PETA video, I really don't like the idea of my children eating halal meat. I am no vegie, but like to think the animals are stunned before slaughter. NOT trying to insult anyone here, just my opinion.

And a valid point it is :thumbup:
Quote by Bluefish2009
After seeing PETA video, I really don't like the idea of my children eating halal meat. I am no vegie, but like to think the animals are stunned before slaughter. NOT trying to insult anyone here, just my opinion.

And a valid point it is :thumbup:
90% of halal meat is stunned and sticked. This is exactly the same method that British slaughterers use.
So you don't fancy your child eating traditional slaughtered food? Or just the traditional 10% halal slaughtered?
Dave_Notts
Quote by Dave__Notts
After seeing PETA video, I really don't like the idea of my children eating halal meat. I am no vegie, but like to think the animals are stunned before slaughter. NOT trying to insult anyone here, just my opinion.

And a valid point it is :thumbup:
90% of halal meat is stunned and sticked. This is exactly the same method that British slaughterers use.
So you don't fancy your child eating traditional slaughtered food? Or just the traditional 10% halal slaughtered?
Dave_Notts
I'm not interested in the percentages of halal butchers who use the "traditional method" of slaughtering their animals. I didn't like what I saw on that video, then looked about and discovered that thousands of fast food outlets are using meat from those butchers, then a letter home from kid's school saying that all their school meals would be Halal. Don't do fast food any more, and the kids take a nice healthy packed lunch each to school. Of course it goes without saying that I buy all my meat from my local independent British Butcher.
And buying from your local shop guarantees what ?
Back in 2010 an investigation showed that at least one quarter of meat on sale in the UK comes from farms that do not have to meet national standards for animal welfare. The UK has relatively high standards of animal welfare compared with the rest of the world, including the European Union. However, there are no restrictions on importing meat from countries that do not impose such standards, where costs are often lower.
Analysis of Trade Figures by the investigation showed :
=> More than half of bacon sold in the UK comes from the Netherlands, Denmark, Germany and Italy
=> 43% of other pork products come from Denmark, Germany the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg
=> One quarter of poultry sold in the UK comes from seven European countries and Brazil
=> 3% of beef is imported from Brazil
=> in 2008, Uruguay overtook Brazil as the second largest beef supplier to the UK
=> in 2008 79,200 tonnes of beef were imported to the UK
Back in 2007 total imports of pork, poultry, beef and veal made up one third of all meat sales.
Indeed looking at DEFRA's "Food Statistics Pocketbook 2011" advises that in 2009, 27 countries together accounted for 90% of UK food supply, up from 24 countries in 1993. (The UK 'contribution' in this being 49.5%, so 50.5% came from outside the UK). The value of imports in 2009 was £32.5 billion compared to £14 billion for exports, giving a trade gap of £18.5 billion.
That's an awful lot of food being sourced from outside the UK and it's being sold to some one/organisation and then being consumed.
It's also worth noting from DEFRA statistics that Schools in England are estimated to dispose of 80 thousand tonnes of food waste, with primary schools generating more food waste than secondary schools.
Quote by HnS
And buying from your local shop guarantees what ?

My butcher will tell me where the meat I am buying has come from, as will any good local butcher.
Better still collect your own :thumbup:
Quote by Dave__Notts
After seeing PETA video, I really don't like the idea of my children eating halal meat. I am no vegie, but like to think the animals are stunned before slaughter. NOT trying to insult anyone here, just my opinion.

And a valid point it is :thumbup:
90% of halal meat is stunned and sticked. This is exactly the same method that British slaughterers use.
So you don't fancy your child eating traditional slaughtered food? Or just the traditional 10% halal slaughtered?
Dave_Notts
That may be 10% to much for some people.

Could there be a conflict between religions? Would all Christians for instance wish to eat meat that may have been killed in line with another religious act?
Quote by Bluefish2009
After seeing PETA video, I really don't like the idea of my children eating halal meat. I am no vegie, but like to think the animals are stunned before slaughter. NOT trying to insult anyone here, just my opinion.

And a valid point it is :thumbup:
90% of halal meat is stunned and sticked. This is exactly the same method that British slaughterers use.
So you don't fancy your child eating traditional slaughtered food? Or just the traditional 10% halal slaughtered?
Dave_Notts
That may be 10% to much for some people.

Could there be a conflict between religions? Would all Christians for instance wish to eat meat that may have been killed in line with another religious act? They shouldn't worry - I'm pretty sure Islam isn't catching.
Dead is dead - dying stressed ruins the meat as adrenaline is released in huge amounts but that is true for almost every single 'christian' abatoir. The animals are fully aware what is coming and even witness the killing of the ones in front. Stressed? You betcha!
Quote by Bluefish2009
Would all Christians for instance wish to eat meat that may have been killed in line with another religious act?

Kosher and Halal is the way in the bible. So christians needn't worry..........as by eating pigs Christians are going against the bible anyway.
Quote by Dave__Notts
Would all Christians for instance wish to eat meat that may have been killed in line with another religious act?

Kosher and Halal is the way in the bible. So christians needn't worry..........as by eating pigs Christians are going against the bible anyway.
Thats ok then Dave, I will sleep easy wink
But I for one do not wish to eat halal meat, for the risk that it may be part of the 10%