Student Protests

10 Dec 2010

I'm not so sure that violence is the answer although in the end how do you show the world at large how pissed off you really are. OK, so maybe you should protest with switching a vote here and there but is there a viable alternative option when all the prospective governing parties are all the same in all but name?
Historically the political will of the 'people' has only ever really been heard through violent or socially disruptive means back through the ages. From Wat Tyler and the peasants revolt the burning down of the monasteries to the civil war the Irish rebellion the Napoleonic wars WW1 , the general strike the Fascists and the cable street riots, WW2, student riots, Three day weeks and brownouts, Riots of the early 80's the miners strike anti poll tax strikes and these are what spring to mind there most be oodles more.
Though these things are not attractive they did effectively change the will of governments and/or people so showed an effectiveness beyond that of peaceful politically 'suggested' means. I hate violence and all that it entails as with regard the emotional, let alone the physical aspects it I can see the point.
The countries government can become so wrapped in its own self importance that the needs of the people are outweighed by the wants of the government. at this point the government becomes self serving and blind to a lot of the populaces needs.
The police are of no use to the people at large in these cases as it's their duty to uphold the rule of law even when the governments have stopped upholding the will of the people. Obviously the police are a necessity by and large. Usually this keeps in with the public's ideas of right and wrong but they are, in these cases the Governments puppets not the public's protectors.
Civil unrest is exactly what it says it is and that is; Civil disturbance is typically a symptom of, and a form of protest against, major socio-political problems; And how major the unrest is will become directly proportional to how the government reacts to it.
By and large Britain has a politically lethargic population who, while still warm, fed and watered to a comfortable degree, accepts the relative status quo that exists, until and if and when the silent majority start getting to the stage of thinking f*ck i'm getting hungry and cold.
At this point it might be that the public start taking action. and things become uncomfortable for the government and a shift in political thought occurs, which eventually it has to if nothing is done or we become more and more heavily policed and controlled and end up in a whole new ball game of them against us.
Sorry I went off on one a bit there.
I think the students have a right to be pissed off, of course they do, they've had it drummed into them, wrongly in my view, how a university education will benefit them oh so much. The facts are now speaking to them about how uncertain this all is and that university = prosperity and success is not a given thing. But, they have been led throughout there formative educational life to believe this, in my opinion, lie.
How the hell this country can talk about let alone suport and make worthwhile the idea of 50% of school leavers going onto university is beyond me. Where the fu*k is the commercial and industrial need for it? There isn't one.
Of course the most talented and intellectually gifted in the country need to be nurtured and encouraged to fill those positions in life where it's necessary but also a kick of reality about normal life in normal jobs earning normal wages needs to be instilled in a good proportion of school kids too.
Good secondary educational standards leading to reasonable jobs where the learning is done through the working, with a wage given to for time served and real, on the job, learned skills. This is paramount for most kids in my view. Far less store should be put on the false aspirations wrongly fed to them at the moment. Universities should be for the best of the best and certainly not put into the position of being businesses,
No I don't blame the students for acting like this. I don't like it and think its wrong but i dont blame them. They've been fed bullshit for years and are angry and want to be heard.

10 Dec 2010

Quote by Lost
Of course the most talented and intellectually gifted in the country need to be nurtured and encouraged to fill those positions in life where it's necessary but also a kick of reality about normal life in normal jobs earning normal wages needs to be instilled in a good proportion of school kids too.
Good secondary educational standards leading to reasonable jobs where the learning is done through the working, with a wage given to for time served and real, on the job, learned skills. This is paramount for most kids in my view. Far less store should be put on the false aspirations wrongly fed to them at the moment. Universities should be for the best of the best and certainly not put into the position of being businesses,

Spot on Lostie. The even bigger joke is that this piece of legislation wont put of those who would be better off going straight into work or vocational training from heading off to university. Only the Russell group universities, plus one or two others will be able to charge the higher rate of fees. The third rate,former polytechnics will still charge the same fees as now to gain a degree in some pointless subject and the students will still leave with a first in Surf Studies and spend their days flipping burgers with no chance of reaching the earnings threshold to pay back their student loan. In the meantime, those with the abitilty and talent to study science, engineering etc. at the top universities will look forward to leaving uni at the age of 22 with debts in excess of £36k just for tuition fees alone. Of course the majority will be in the higher earnings bracket so will pay back their student loans, but they'll also pay more income tax and potentially create jobs and investment.

10 Dec 2010

Quote by GnV
There can be no justification for attacking the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall; There can be no justification for attacking the Treasury Building in Whitehall

It was pretty obvious why the Treasury building was targeted, tax avoidance ! The building was sold off via a PFI and leased back to the taxpayer, which apparentely costs us the taxpayer £18bn each year, the MOD building was also sold off in the same way;

As for the events on Oxford St, Top Shop was also being attacked over the very same issue, tax avoidance, in fact if you look at the footage there's a clue 'Pay Your Tax' in large grafitti written on the window, along with various this was going on Charlie and Camilla were driving past, WHY? Did their close protection team really not know what was going on? Or did they want to drive past to see what the little people were doing? Frankly i couldn't care less about all that, so what ! more publicity, good or bad it matters not, by the way GnV what happened to the Royal Family in your country?
Where does this go from here, well there's several things, students standing as MP's against the Lib Dems in areas that voted with the avoidance protests will grow, links with the group 'Anonymous' could be exploited, and of course the students will join our protests against the cuts next year.
Funny i see no mention 'as usual' of Police tactics, dragging a disabled man out of his wheelchair;
At

Police on horseback charging into a protest with school kids, and the usual illegal kettling tactics, not really surprising that the red mist decended is it? I dare say the usual suspects will now rear their heads and talk of soap dodgers and the like.....yawn !

10 Dec 2010

So, there it is. The premier item on France's principal lunchtime TV news program TF1. Images of yobs attacking the Royal couple as they go about the lawful business attending a Royal Gala performance at the London Palladium.
Can there now be any wonder why FIFA gave the World Cup away to Russia?
What sort of message does this totally unacceptable behaviour give to the world about coming to London with the Olympics not so far off?
Those yobs are lucky to be alive (hopefully in a prison cell) this morning because in Russia, France and many other countries of the world, the protection squad would have just shot them and asked questions later.
And these yobs then complain about Police behaviour! The Police showed remarkable restraint in the face of immense terror at the hands of a mob - schoolchildren or not. The rioters were a bunch of cowardly morons and have shown beyond question that they are in no way deserving of funding for their education.
The decision taken by the democratic process yesterday is now shown to be the correct one in every respect.

10 Dec 2010

Quote by medway_garage
There can be no justification for attacking the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall; There can be no justification for attacking the Treasury Building in Whitehall

It was pretty obvious why the Treasury building was targeted, tax avoidance ! The building was sold off via a PFI and leased back to the taxpayer, which apparentely costs us the taxpayer £18bn each year, the MOD building was also sold off in the same way;

As for the events on Oxford St, Top Shop was also being attacked over the very same issue, tax avoidance, in fact if you look at the footage there's a clue 'Pay Your Tax' in large grafitti written on the window, along with various this was going on Charlie and Camilla were driving past, WHY? Did their close protection team really not know what was going on? Or did they want to drive past to see what the little people were doing? Frankly i couldn't care less about all that, so what ! more publicity, good or bad it matters not, by the way GnV what happened to the Royal Family in your country?
Where does this go from here, well there's several things, students standing as MP's against the Lib Dems in areas that voted with the avoidance protests will grow, links with the group 'Anonymous' could be exploited, and of course the students will join our protests against the cuts next year.
Funny i see no mention 'as usual' of Police tactics, dragging a disabled man out of his wheelchair;
At

Police on horseback charging into a protest with school kids, and the usual illegal kettling tactics, not really surprising that the red mist decended is it? I dare say the usual suspects will now rear their heads and talk of soap dodgers and the like.....yawn !
If the Treasury and MOD Buildings were attacked over tax avoidance, as you claim, why weren't they attacked when they were sold. In the first link you have supplied, it is claimed that the MOD building was sold in 2000.......10 years ago, under a Labour Government. Why wait until now?
Oh and btw, in the second clip, it's claimed that £18 billion is the estimated total of all tax avoidance, not just the sale and leaseback of the buildings in question.

10 Dec 2010

makes me smile if all the students voted for the lib dems they might of got in power and kept to their promise of not increasing student fees, plus i'm not sure students at uni should get free or subsidised tuition only to go on to better jobs where they can charge us £100 or more for a letter etc when going through divorces etc.

10 Dec 2010

Thugs!!!

10 Dec 2010

Quote by GnV
So, there it is. The premier item on France's principal lunchtime TV news program TF1. Images of yobs attacking the Royal couple as they go about the lawful business attending a Royal Gala performance at the London Palladium.
Those yobs are lucky to be alive (hopefully in a prison cell) this morning because in Russia, France and many other countries of the world, the protection squad would have just shot them and asked questions later.

At least the mob only rocked the car and threw some paint. In Russia and France they cut off their head or shot them lol

Dave_Notts

10 Dec 2010

Attacking the statue of churchill and pulling down the union flag were not acceptable.
However, I think the powers that be are glad of the students behaviour, it means they get bad publicity. wink

10 Dec 2010

Quote by browning
Attacking the statue of churchill and pulling down the union flag were not acceptable.

The people that did this are beneath contempt.

10 Dec 2010

To be honest Browning. Churchill was just a politician so I do not give two hoots about what they done to his statue.
I do agree with you about the cenotaph and the Union Flag. That to me is the same as a graveyard and the desecration is uncalled for. I hope she is charged as the lad who urinated on one in the summer and she gets community service like him.
Dave_Notts

10 Dec 2010

It turns out the Cenotaph flag swinger was Charlie Gilmour, who is the step-son of Pink Floyd guitarist David. Dad's worth £78 million so I doubt sunshine will be left with much of a debt.
His pathetic excuse that he didn't realise it was the Cenotaph or what it symbolised is typical of the champagne socialist yob.
I trust he will be charged under the Criminal Damages Act which carries a prison sentence if found guilty and also Cambridge Uni will now be booting him out?
What did his dad's band sing? "You don't get no ed-u-cay-shun"

10 Dec 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts
To be honest Browning. Churchill was just a politician so I do not give two hoots about what they done to his statue.
I do agree with you about the cenotaph and the Union Flag. That to me is the same as a graveyard and the desecration is uncalled for. I hope she is charged as the lad who urinated on one in the summer and she gets community service like him.
Dave_Notts

For me, who the statue is of is not the point, the point for me is the destruction of such things, criminal damage.
As with the Prince and Camilla in the car, who was in the car is irrelevant, the act of attacking was the problem for me. The Thugs were pushing there luck in my oppinoin, security could have thought what was being thrown as more of a threat than paint.

10 Dec 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts
So, there it is. The premier item on France's principal lunchtime TV news program TF1. Images of yobs attacking the Royal couple as they go about the lawful business attending a Royal Gala performance at the London Palladium.
Those yobs are lucky to be alive (hopefully in a prison cell) this morning because in Russia, France and many other countries of the world, the protection squad would have just shot them and asked questions later.

At least the mob only rocked the car and threw some paint. In Russia and France they cut off their head or shot them lol

Dave_Notts
Errr no Dave. They smashed the window of the official Rolls Royce on the side occupied by the Heir to the throne and poked something through the open window on the Duchess' side.
You are obviously proud of the youth of Britain and what they did by your comments Dave.
Shameful.

Quote by blue
The Thugs were pushing there luck in my oppinoin, security could have thought what was being thrown as more of a threat than paint.

It could just as well have been a firework or a bomb either of which causing severe harm to the Heir to the throne. Stange how some find that acceptable.

10 Dec 2010

Its funny how some continue to say that the students actions make them look bad and loose public support. Must be just me then that thinks yeh this is how I remember life under the Torys lol

This time it just has a large wedge of Lib dem thrown in. Lots of other people are saying the same too. Personally I dont think Students rioting is making the coalition look good in fact I think its the opposite it just makes it look like they cant run the country.
I have one sympathy for the students and that is I have recently been reminded how hard they did campaign for the Lib dems. I found an old election poster in the building I work at today and it flooded back to me how many of these there were. The Lib dems did not get elected solely as the government but them having campaigned on scrapping student tuition fees should still be in their considerations. Therefore as a coalition government I dont see why they decided to support increases when leaving things as they are would have been the middle ground.

11 Dec 2010

Can there now be any wonder why FIFA gave the World Cup away to Russia?
What sort of message does this totally unacceptable behaviour give to the world about coming to London with the Olympics not so far off?

Is it more or less the same sort of message some of us got seeing seemingly orchestrated violence at gay pride marches in Moscow in recent years? dunno

Not that that's in any way relevant, obviously, but FIFA, the Olympics and student protests, all neatly conflated and encapsulated in a single post? confused

Come on GnV, lets at least try to stay on topic, eh? lol

;)

Those yobs are lucky to be alive . . . . this morning because in Russia, France and many other countries of the world, the protection squad would have just shot them and asked questions later.

And? Fortunately we don't live in those kinds of countries. Not usually anyways, which is a good thing, of course? Isn't it? :?

The rioters were a bunch of cowardly morons and have shown beyond question that they are in no way deserving of funding for their education.

How many rioters did you count? Assuming of course that anyone who took part in yesterdays play-acting has now ruled themselves out of tax-payer funding, out of the entire population of 'A' Level, 6th Form, and Degree level students, how many did you count pissing on cenotaphs, and chucking stuff at London buildings and poor little horses? As a percentage of the entire student population, and those who support them, is it barely even worth a statisticians time and energy, or are you just gonna dismiss the entire argument thanks to the efforts of a few? :?
N x x x ;)
p.s. Essex? Dave Gilmour's son sounds like a bit of a twat. I don't think for one minute he thought he was going off unto death, but I'm guessing the fuckwit thought it might be a clever thing to say? Seemed to have enough people round him to make sure that didn't happen though, and I can't help wondering who was doing the filming? :dunno: :?

11 Dec 2010

Quote by neilinleeds
Not that that's in any way relevant, obviously, but FIFA, the Olympics and student protests, all neatly conflated and encapsulated in a single post? Come on GnV, lets at least try to stay on topic, eh? ;)

Its a skill neil wink

11 Dec 2010

The longer the students riot, the lower the public support. Students, by their antics, are held in pretty low esteem at the best of times and if they believe their cause will be helped by violence, public disorder and peeing against a statue of Sir Winston Churchill then they are being badly lead/advised.
So students won't vote Tory, wouldn't vote Lib Dem again so that only leaves Labour. Ah, but it was them who introduced fees in the first place wasn't it, a convenient truth forgotten by so many of these little thugs and supporters of their riotous actions. Strange how Red Ed has kept a very low profile during all of this, not a whimper.
Looking at the voting statistics, it turns out the majority of the little darlings didn't bother to turn out to vote in the election anyway.

Their cause is lost by their actions and their inactivity.

11 Dec 2010

Quote by GnV
Not that that's in any way relevant, obviously, but FIFA, the Olympics and student protests, all neatly conflated and encapsulated in a single post? Come on GnV, lets at least try to stay on topic, eh? ;)

Its a skill neil wink

Pffffft! That's you being succinct and to the point innit? I wish I knew how to do that? :? :lol:
;)
N x x x ;)

11 Dec 2010

I found David Cameron's 'feral mob' quote truly hilarious, this is coming from a man who was part of the infamous 'Bullingdon Club', other members notably included 'George Osborne' and 'Boris Johnson', trashing restaurants,smoking Cannabis mmmmmmmm selective memory lapse there then Dave, or does it only apply to the little people!
Here's some links for those Tory voters who don't seem to know much about these acts by 'feral youth', priceless lol

You gotta love the photo :lol:

Oh dear,Dave really doesn't want people to see this photo for some reason?????

And here it is,really would be a shame to keep this one hidden

I'm sure all the people on here will join me in CONdeming these 'very naughty boys'!

11 Dec 2010

"Things got out of hand and we'd had a few drinks. We smashed the place up and Boris set fire to the toilets." David Cameron, Oxford, 1986.

11 Dec 2010

I'm sorry medway. Where's the picture of David Cameron pissing on the statue of Winston Churchill or the one of him taking a steel bar to a Police horse.
Perhaps you have one of him chucking a barrier at Police Officers or breaking into the Treasury with a concrete block. Perhaps kicking the shit out of a Policewoman or trying to break the glass window of the Royal Rolls Royce?
No? None of those sort of pictures?
Ah well.
Nice try.

11 Dec 2010

Quote by GnV
I'm sorry medway. Where's the picture of David Cameron pissing on the statue of Winston Churchill or the one of him taking a steel bar to a Police horse.
Perhaps you have one of him chucking a barrier at Police Officers or breaking into the Treasury with a concrete block. Perhaps kicking the shit out of a Policewoman or trying to break the glass window of the Royal Rolls Royce?
No? None of those sort of pictures?
Ah well.
Nice try.

So GnV you excuse the Prime Minister,London Mayor and Chancellor of smashing up a restaurant and drug use, i see wink

Nice to see you're consistant in your argument lol

11 Dec 2010

Quote by GnV

At least the mob only rocked the car and threw some paint. In Russia and France they cut off their head or shot them
Dave_Notts

Errr no Dave. They smashed the window of the official Rolls Royce on the side occupied by the Heir to the throne and poked something through the open window on the Duchess' side.
You are obviously proud of the youth of Britain and what they did by your comments Dave.
Shameful.

Quote by blue
The Thugs were pushing there luck in my oppinoin, security could have thought what was being thrown as more of a threat than paint.

It could just as well have been a firework or a bomb either of which causing severe harm to the Heir to the throne. Stange how some find that acceptable.
They did something that, if caught, they will pay for. But in the scale of things, it was a bit of paint, rocking the car and smashing a window. Slightly different scale to cutting their heads off or putting them against a wall and killing them including the children.
Am I proud of the youth of Britain? Yes I am, as this minority is not the whole of the youth of Britain.
Are you proud of the French youth who have sprayed graffitti over anything that didn't move in Normandy? I would say it was a minority of French youth and not all, but that is the same kind of comparisson. French thugs and English thugs are much of a muchness.
Dave_Notts

11 Dec 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts
To be honest Browning. Churchill was just a politician so I do not give two hoots about what they done to his statue.
I do agree with you about the cenotaph and the Union Flag. That to me is the same as a graveyard and the desecration is uncalled for. I hope she is charged as the lad who urinated on one in the summer and she gets community service like him.
Dave_Notts

Churchill was just a politician?
Thanks to people like him, the students have the right to protest!!!

12 Dec 2010

So no one has yet CONdemed the 'feral' acts of the 'Bullingdon elite', mmmmm the smell of hypocracy is very strong around here wink

Anyone fancy a flutter,Ladbrokes now have odds of 5/2 on there being a General Election next year, wonder how long it will take for a vote of no confidence in Cameron, can't be far off lol

Here's some more wood for the toilet Boris.

12 Dec 2010

Quote by medway_garage
So no one has yet CONdemed the 'feral' acts of the 'Bullingdon elite', mmmmm the smell of hypocracy is very strong around here
Anyone fancy a flutter,Ladbrokes now have odds of 5/2 on there being a General Election next year, wonder how long it will take for a vote of no confidence in Cameron, can't be far off

Here's some more wood for the toilet Boris.

I'm not a betting man but I'm sure that the odds on the link you provide show odds of 5/2 not 5/2 on, there is a distinct difference....they also show odds of 8/15 ( 15/8 on) on a Conservative win against 6/4 for a Labour win. What does that say?

12 Dec 2010

Quote by medway_garage
So no one has yet CONdemed the 'feral' acts of the 'Bullingdon elite', mmmmm the smell of hypocracy is very strong around here
Anyone fancy a flutter,Ladbrokes now have odds of 5/2 on there being a General Election next year, wonder how long it will take for a vote of no confidence in Cameron, can't be far off

Here's some more wood for the toilet Boris.

I thought you had already condemned me for that in absentia medway :wink:
The people to be condemned are those that physically attacked Police Officers in the lawful execution of their duty and caused criminal damage to public buildings. Oh, and don't forget those who attacked the Price of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall going quietly about their lawful business.
Perhaps you don't respect upholding the law medway?
That would be quite improper to suggest of course.... so my apologies in advance if you are outraged by such a suggestion.

12 Dec 2010

Quote by Max777
So no one has yet CONdemed the 'feral' acts of the 'Bullingdon elite', mmmmm the smell of hypocracy is very strong around here
Anyone fancy a flutter,Ladbrokes now have odds of 5/2 on there being a General Election next year, wonder how long it will take for a vote of no confidence in Cameron, can't be far off

Here's some more wood for the toilet Boris.

I'm not a betting man but I'm sure that the odds on the link you provide show odds of 5/2 not 5/2 on....they also show odds of 8/15 on a Conservative win against 6/4 for a Labour win. What does that say?
Well it's not my newspaper but take a look at todays 'News Of The World' page 8 Fraser Nelson column under the heading 'The line is drawn, rebels are arming'
QUOTE;Last week, David Cameron saw the face of the enemy that might one day bring down his it wasn't the majority in Parliament was reduced to just 21 enemy was an alliance: As Labour joined up with Tory and Lib Dem this alliance grows, and the PM loses a confidence vote, game over. A General Election. And no new voting system to rig the crazy? Ladbrokes has odds of just 5-2 on a General Election NEXT YEAR. Polls have Labour winning'END OF QUOTE
Hilarious, first time i've quoted the 'News Of The World' of all people :lol: they even mention rigging the result ha ha ! it would appear the Murdoch, media spin machine are in a bit of a panic!