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Student Protests

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GnV
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Why should a Government listen after they are in power
There you go you've said it. Do you know an answer? I do

Prey tell...
I can only say that I do not pay poll tax
but you pay more than would have been the case if the poll tax had survived wink
That's some achievement, well done! :thumbup: See, people power works. :grin:
Staggerlee_BB
Sex God
Quote by GnV
Why should a Government listen after they are in power
There you go you've said it. Do you know an answer? I do

Prey tell...
I can only say that I do not pay poll tax
but you pay more than would have been the case if the poll tax had survived wink
That's some achievement, well done! :thumbup: See, people power works. :grin:
And those less fortunate than me don't....yes it is indeed an who's to say how much anyone would be paying if the poll tax was still with us
GnV
Sex God
Who indeed Staggs... but we shall never know, shall we.
My thoughts are though, when paying Council Tax in Britain, that we would have been much better off with the so called poll tax - in our circumstances at least.
But what is certain, is that we are paying much less here for a far better service!
Vive la France!
Bluefish2009
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Why should a Government listen after they are in power
There you go you've said it. Do you know an answer? I do

Prey tell...
I can only say that I do not pay poll tax
but you pay more than would have been the case if the poll tax had survived wink
That's some achievement, well done! :thumbup: See, people power works. :grin:
And those less fortunate than me don't....yes it is indeed an who's to say how much anyone would be paying if the poll tax was still with us
I liked the poll tax, I was living in a one bedroom, leaking, mobile home at the time, worth about £500. When the council tax came in, I was placed in the lowest band, along with properties worth tens of thousands of pounds, it doubled my polltax. I was very upset and angry.
I would like to take the opportunity to thank Stags and all the other involved in making me poorer :thumbup:
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by GnV
Who indeed Staggs... but we shall never know, shall we.
My thoughts are though, when paying Council Tax in Britain, that we would have been much better off with the so called poll tax.
But what is certain, is that we are paying much less here for a far better service!

In your opinion GnV
When in Normandy in the summer I was speaking to quite a few ex-pats who would not agree with you ate all. The faults they were coming up with were siilar to UK faults and others which we do not experience over here.
Listening to them the grass is not greener........just a different shade
Dave_Notts
Staggerlee_BB
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
Why should a Government listen after they are in power
There you go you've said it. Do you know an answer? I do

Prey tell...
I can only say that I do not pay poll tax
but you pay more than would have been the case if the poll tax had survived wink
That's some achievement, well done! :thumbup: See, people power works. :grin:
And those less fortunate than me don't....yes it is indeed an who's to say how much anyone would be paying if the poll tax was still with us
I liked the poll tax, I was living in a one bedroom, leaking, mobile home at the time, worth about £500. When the council tax came in, I was placed in the lowest band, along with properties worth tens of thousands of pounds, it doubled my polltax. I was very upset and angry.
I would like to take the opportunity to thank Stags and all the other involved in making me poorer :thumbup:
Blue I am myself probably paying more council tax than I would have been paying poll tax.....that is not the point....taxation should be based on ability to pay not self interest
GnV
Sex God
Quote by flower411
Who indeed Staggs... but we shall never know, shall we.
My thoughts are though, when paying Council Tax in Britain, that we would have been much better off with the so called poll tax.
But what is certain, is that we are paying much less here for a far better service!

In your opinion GnV
When in Normandy in the summer I was speaking to quite a few ex-pats who would not agree with you ate all. The faults they were coming up with were siilar to UK faults and others which we do not experience over here.
Listening to them the grass is not greener........just a different shade
Dave_Notts
Living in Normandy would make anybody miserable !!!
Couldn't agree more flower!!! Normandy is not the real France after all... far too many winging Brits lol
Bluefish2009
Sex God
Quote by Dave__Notts
Who indeed Staggs... but we shall never know, shall we.
My thoughts are though, when paying Council Tax in Britain, that we would have been much better off with the so called poll tax.
But what is certain, is that we are paying much less here for a far better service!

In your opinion GnV
When in Normandy in the summer I was speaking to quite a few ex-pats who would not agree with you ate all. The faults they were coming up with were siilar to UK faults and others which we do not experience over here.
Listening to them the grass is not greener........just a different shade
Dave_Notts
I have a good friend who has a home here and in France, I will see him at a shoot on Sat and will ask the question and see what his thoughts are
Bluefish2009
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Blue I am myself probably paying more council tax than I would have been paying poll tax.....that is not the point....taxation should be based on ability to pay not self interest

Just as those who can afford an higher education should pay for it, rather than me paying for it dunno
Jewlnmart
Master of Sex
Quote by Bluefish2009
Blue I am myself probably paying more council tax than I would have been paying poll tax.....that is not the point....taxation should be based on ability to pay not self interest

Just as those who can afford an higher education should pay for it, rather than me paying for it dunno
But what about those who can't afford higher education, but are worthy of it?
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Jewlnmart
Blue I am myself probably paying more council tax than I would have been paying poll tax.....that is not the point....taxation should be based on ability to pay not self interest

Just as those who can afford an higher education should pay for it, rather than me paying for it dunno
But what about those who can't afford higher education, but are worthy of it?
There are systems in place to allow them to afford it. They do not want to take the opportunity to take it. Their choice.
In other countries they are not given loans to help them, at least this country gives everybody a chance to gain higher education with a "learn now, pay later" choice.
Dave_Notts
Jewlnmart
Master of Sex
Quote by Dave__Notts
Blue I am myself probably paying more council tax than I would have been paying poll tax.....that is not the point....taxation should be based on ability to pay not self interest

Just as those who can afford an higher education should pay for it, rather than me paying for it dunno
But what about those who can't afford higher education, but are worthy of it?
There are systems in place to allow them to afford it. They do not want to take the opportunity to take it. Their choice.
In other countries they are not given loans to help them, at least this country gives everybody a chance to gain higher education with a "learn now, pay later" choice.
Dave_Notts
But bluefish appears to be suggesting we do away with this Dave. If it wasn't for student loans and the current cap on what Universities charge there's no way my son could afford to study at Oxford.
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Jewlnmart
Blue I am myself probably paying more council tax than I would have been paying poll tax.....that is not the point....taxation should be based on ability to pay not self interest

Just as those who can afford an higher education should pay for it, rather than me paying for it dunno
But what about those who can't afford higher education, but are worthy of it?
There are systems in place to allow them to afford it. They do not want to take the opportunity to take it. Their choice.
In other countries they are not given loans to help them, at least this country gives everybody a chance to gain higher education with a "learn now, pay later" choice.
Dave_Notts
But bluefish appears to be suggesting we do away with this Dave. If it wasn't for student loans and the current cap on what Universities charge there's no way my son could afford to study at Oxford.
Then go to a university that they can afford.
I would love a Porsche but make do with a Vauxhall. Why should others have to pay for my choices?
Dave_Notts
Jewlnmart
Master of Sex
Quote by Dave__Notts
Then go to a university that they can afford.
I would love a Porsche but make do with a Vauxhall. Why should others have to pay for my choices?
Dave_Notts

What would be the point of getting a degree from a second rate university? It wouldn't give him the opportunities that a degree from a Russell group university would and he'd end up doing a job he could get straight from school. You would rather higher education became the preserve of the wealthy rather than our brightest minds from what ever background.
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Jewlnmart

Then go to a university that they can afford.
I would love a Porsche but make do with a Vauxhall. Why should others have to pay for my choices?
Dave_Notts

What would be the point of getting a degree from a second rate university? It wouldn't give him the opportunities that a degree from a Russell group university would and he'd end up doing a job he could get straight from school. You would rather higher education became the preserve of the wealthy rather than our brightest minds from what ever background.
In a perfect society your way would be the best. In the real world, people have to start somewhere. My family had feck all and not one person in our whole family had been to university. My brother enrolled in a "second rate" university and got his education that allowed him to progress to now owning two businesses and employing 25+ people. I enrolled in a "second rate" university and have a job that pays a lot more than I used to get. This may not seem a lot to many but for two council house lads from N Wales I feel it is something that we have done on our own and paid for it on our own.
I believe that the Oxbridge elitism should be rubbed out and not the cost that you are eluding to. All universities should have the same courses and carry the same value. Putting Oxbridge students as better than others is fuelling this elitism and the void is getting bigger if the "poor" want to and join the club.
Dave_Notts
Unknown User
Dave would either have you managed that without free fees and subsistence grants?
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Ben_welshminx
Dave would either have you managed that without free fees and subsistence grants?

Yes. He had free fees, I didn't. He had subsistence grants, I didn't.
Dave_Notts
Jewlnmart
Master of Sex
Quote by Dave__Notts

Then go to a university that they can afford.
I would love a Porsche but make do with a Vauxhall. Why should others have to pay for my choices?
Dave_Notts

What would be the point of getting a degree from a second rate university? It wouldn't give him the opportunities that a degree from a Russell group university would and he'd end up doing a job he could get straight from school. You would rather higher education became the preserve of the wealthy rather than our brightest minds from what ever background.
In a perfect society your way would be the best. In the real world, people have to start somewhere. My family had feck all and not one person in our whole family had been to university. My brother enrolled in a "second rate" university and got his education that allowed him to progress to now owning two businesses and employing 25+ people. I enrolled in a "second rate" university and have a job that pays a lot more than I used to get. This may not seem a lot to many but for two council house lads from N Wales I feel it is something that we have done on our own and paid for it on our own.
I believe that the Oxbridge elitism should be rubbed out and not the cost that you are eluding to. All universities should have the same courses and carry the same value. Putting Oxbridge students as better than others is fuelling this elitism and the void is getting bigger if the "poor" want to and join the club.
Dave_Notts
Dave,
It would seem we have similar backgrounds. I'm a farm worker, coucil housed raised, son of a char lady and a truck driver and my daughter was the first in my extended family to go to university (Biochem at Aberystwyth). Currently all universities are charging the same fees, so he has gone for a university he can afford and has a place at a top university on merit. His younger brother on the other hand (who is amongst the top 250 mathematicians for his age in the UK) would be indebted to over £40,000 if he tries to follow a similar path to his brother. The top universtites (The Russell group) encompass far more than Oxbridge and will always be the aim for top students and means he will not only pay back his student loans and other debts, but will also pay back more income tax. But if bluefish had his way even a second rate university could be out of the question.
Just out of curiosty how much was your tuition fees for you and your brothers degrees?
Bluefish2009
Sex God
I don't believe I have put forward any "way" but for the record I am quite at ease with the governments current implementation
tweeky
Sex God
Quote by GnV

I look in the mirror every morning Staggs and I like what I see. If I want to change something, I just go ahead and do it within the rule of law and a clear conscience. No need for petrol bombs here; just a will and a way wink
If so many people feel disenfranchised about the political mix, they can do something about it in a Parliamentary democracy. The can stand for Parliament. So many do without the backing of the big parties and their penchant for the bankers. They can (and do) influence the policy that is later handed down to the "serfs". Shame that there aren't more who stand as independents with a will to make a change.
There is little point in doing nothing about it at the time when something should and can be done about it and then later complaining that the Parliamentary system is fixed.
Why should a Government listen after they are in power? They have a mandate to Govern and their focus is on what they believe is right.

No they cant, its not free you know you have to pay for the privalidge. Not many people could afford what was £500 at one time. Dont know what it is now all I know is you have to achieve a number of votes in order to get it back.
Staggerlee_BB
Sex God
It is unfair that a student from a poorer background should have to work to allow them to study whilst those with parents wealthy enough to support them can concentrate on their studies without distraction.
It is unfair that students from a poorer background will leave university with a debt hanging round their necks like a millstone whilst those from wealthier families will have incurred little or no debt because of their parents support.
It is unfair that children from poorer backgrounds will have to consider wether or not they can afford further education of any kind whilst those from wealthier families will not have give it a second thought.
It is unfair that students graduating and taking less well paid jobs that require a degree will find it harder to pay back their debt than those who go into more lucrative fields.
There is a fairer way that many thousands of graduates have already benefited from FREE UNIVERSAL EDUCATION for any who qualify is a fair and equitable way of paying for this..a graduate tax levied as a percentage of earnings so that all who benefit from a university education pay for the education of future generations...it will not be enacted by this or any other parliament because it does not further their social engineering project
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Jewlnmart
Dave,
It would seem we have similar backgrounds. I'm a farm worker, coucil housed raised, son of a char lady and a truck driver and my daughter was the first in my extended family to go to university (Biochem at Aberystwyth). Currently all universities are charging the same fees, so he has gone for a university he can afford and has a place at a top university on merit. His younger brother on the other hand (who is amongst the top 250 mathematicians for his age in the UK) would be indebted to over £40,000 if he tries to follow a similar path to his brother. The top universtites (The Russell group) encompass far more than Oxbridge and will always be the aim for top students and means he will not only pay back his student loans and other debts, but will also pay back more income tax. But if bluefish had his way even a second rate university could be out of the question.
Just out of curiosty how much was your tuition fees for you and your brothers degrees?

I left with just under £20,000 of debt that I had to pay off in 5 years after graduation. I can't remember how much they were.
The fees I am paying now is £450 per module for another course I have signed up to. In addition it is costing us about £1000 every 2-3 months to help the eldest even though she gets all the loans available.
Is it fair? I am glad it is not the American way as this is a lot cheaper and available to all rather than just the minority. It isn't the best system, but then again it is not the worst either.
Once your son gets his education and being in the top 250 in the country then he will eligible to undertake work on a pay that is commensurate with being within the top 250 of his field where £40,00 is not that much in a lifetime of working in his chosen sphere of work.
Dave_Notts
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It is unfair that a student from a poorer background should have to work to allow them to study whilst those with parents wealthy enough to support them can concentrate on their studies without distraction.
It is unfair that students from a poorer background will leave university with a debt hanging round their necks like a millstone whilst those from wealthier families will have incurred little or no debt because of their parents support.
It is unfair that children from poorer backgrounds will have to consider wether or not they can afford further education of any kind whilst those from wealthier families will not have give it a second thought.
It is unfair that students graduating and taking less well paid jobs that require a degree will find it harder to pay back their debt than those who go into more lucrative fields.
There is a fairer way that many thousands of graduates have already benefited from FREE UNIVERSAL EDUCATION for any who qualify is a fair and equitable way of paying for this..a graduate tax levied as a percentage of earnings so that all who benefit from a university education pay for the education of future generations...it will not be enacted by this or any other parliament because it does not further their social engineering project

It is unfair Staggs, but who has ever said life was fair? There will always be the haves and have nots.
I had to work through my education but I did not then or do not now look at the rich who didn't then or do not now and feel envious. I look at my degree and feel proud that I achieved it with my own toil.
Now being a bit of a hypocrite now, as I am now back in the same boat again and have had to take a second job to pay for my daughters education so she doesn't have to do what I had to do, so she can have the best chance in life that I can give her. So go figure dunno
Dave_Notts
Jewlnmart
Master of Sex
Quote by Dave__Notts

Dave,
It would seem we have similar backgrounds. I'm a farm worker, coucil housed raised, son of a char lady and a truck driver and my daughter was the first in my extended family to go to university (Biochem at Aberystwyth). Currently all universities are charging the same fees, so he has gone for a university he can afford and has a place at a top university on merit. His younger brother on the other hand (who is amongst the top 250 mathematicians for his age in the UK) would be indebted to over £40,000 if he tries to follow a similar path to his brother. The top universtites (The Russell group) encompass far more than Oxbridge and will always be the aim for top students and means he will not only pay back his student loans and other debts, but will also pay back more income tax. But if bluefish had his way even a second rate university could be out of the question.
Just out of curiosty how much was your tuition fees for you and your brothers degrees?

I left with just under £20,000 of debt that I had to pay off in 5 years after graduation. I can't remember how much they were.
The fees I am paying now is £450 per module for another course I have signed up to. In addition it is costing us about £1000 every 2-3 months to help the eldest even though she gets all the loans available.
Is it fair? I am glad it is not the American way as this is a lot cheaper and available to all rather than just the minority. It isn't the best system, but then again it is not the worst either.
Once your son gets his education and being in the top 250 in the country then he will eligible to undertake work on a pay that is commensurate with being within the top 250 of his field where £40,00 is not that much in a lifetime of working in his chosen sphere of work.
Dave_Notts
So you had £20,000 of debts without having to pay tuition fees. Tuition fees will account for £36,000 in my youngest sons case before any debt inccured for living costs and having a life outside of studies. Coming from a household whose combined income is £25,000 a year it's easy to see why it's a tough decision to burden himself with a massive debt aged 22. All my children consider a university education a privilage and all agree that they should make a contribution towards this, but common sense means they would rather pay through taxation when they are earning the high salaries they could potentially recieve rather than burden themselves with a debt bigger than some peoples mortgage.
Staggerlee_BB
Sex God
Quote by Dave__Notts

Dave,
It would seem we have similar backgrounds. I'm a farm worker, coucil housed raised, son of a char lady and a truck driver and my daughter was the first in my extended family to go to university (Biochem at Aberystwyth). Currently all universities are charging the same fees, so he has gone for a university he can afford and has a place at a top university on merit. His younger brother on the other hand (who is amongst the top 250 mathematicians for his age in the UK) would be indebted to over £40,000 if he tries to follow a similar path to his brother. The top universtites (The Russell group) encompass far more than Oxbridge and will always be the aim for top students and means he will not only pay back his student loans and other debts, but will also pay back more income tax. But if bluefish had his way even a second rate university could be out of the question.
Just out of curiosty how much was your tuition fees for you and your brothers degrees?

I left with just under £20,000 of debt that I had to pay off in 5 years after graduation. I can't remember how much they were.
The fees I am paying now is £450 per module for another course I have signed up to. In addition it is costing us about £1000 every 2-3 months to help the eldest even though she gets all the loans available.
Is it fair? I am glad it is not the American way as this is a lot cheaper and available to all rather than just the minority. It isn't the best system, but then again it is not the worst either.
Once your son gets his education and being in the top 250 in the country then he will eligible to undertake work on a pay that is commensurate with being within the top 250 of his field where £40,00 is not that much in a lifetime of working in his chosen sphere of work.
Dave_Notts
It rather depends on the sphere he chooses..he may want to teach,not the best paid may as a mathematician wish to remain in academia as a researcher or lecturer,again not the most highly paid ,000 pounds of debt may mean he cannot afford to choose these fields this may impoverish the world greatly.....imagine if Stephen Hawking had been forced by debt to go into banking
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Jewlnmart

Dave,
It would seem we have similar backgrounds. I'm a farm worker, coucil housed raised, son of a char lady and a truck driver and my daughter was the first in my extended family to go to university (Biochem at Aberystwyth). Currently all universities are charging the same fees, so he has gone for a university he can afford and has a place at a top university on merit. His younger brother on the other hand (who is amongst the top 250 mathematicians for his age in the UK) would be indebted to over £40,000 if he tries to follow a similar path to his brother. The top universtites (The Russell group) encompass far more than Oxbridge and will always be the aim for top students and means he will not only pay back his student loans and other debts, but will also pay back more income tax. But if bluefish had his way even a second rate university could be out of the question.
Just out of curiosty how much was your tuition fees for you and your brothers degrees?

I left with just under £20,000 of debt that I had to pay off in 5 years after graduation. I can't remember how much they were.
The fees I am paying now is £450 per module for another course I have signed up to. In addition it is costing us about £1000 every 2-3 months to help the eldest even though she gets all the loans available.
Is it fair? I am glad it is not the American way as this is a lot cheaper and available to all rather than just the minority. It isn't the best system, but then again it is not the worst either.
Once your son gets his education and being in the top 250 in the country then he will eligible to undertake work on a pay that is commensurate with being within the top 250 of his field where £40,00 is not that much in a lifetime of working in his chosen sphere of work.
Dave_Notts
So you had £20,000 of debts without having to pay tuition fees. Tuition fees will account for £36,000 in my youngest sons case before any debt inccured for living costs and having a life outside of studies. Coming from a household whose combined income is £25,000 a year it's easy to see why it's a tough decision to burden himself with a massive debt aged 22. All my children consider a university education a privilage and all agree that they should make a contribution towards this, but common sense means they would rather pay through taxation when they are earning the high salaries they could potentially recieve rather than burden themselves with a debt bigger than some peoples mortgage.
That only gets repaid if they are able to afford it i.e. meets the minimum repayment level. So that is another safeguard put in there for him
Dave_Notts
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It rather depends on the sphere he chooses..he may want to teach,not the best paid may as a mathematician wish to remain in academia as a researcher or lecturer,again not the most highly paid ,000 pounds of debt may mean he cannot afford to choose these fields this may impoverish the world greatly.....imagine if Stephen Hawking had been forced by debt to go into banking

With his brain he would be minted with bonuses
Dave_Notts
Staggerlee_BB
Sex God
Quote by flower411

Dave,
It would seem we have similar backgrounds. I'm a farm worker, coucil housed raised, son of a char lady and a truck driver and my daughter was the first in my extended family to go to university (Biochem at Aberystwyth). Currently all universities are charging the same fees, so he has gone for a university he can afford and has a place at a top university on merit. His younger brother on the other hand (who is amongst the top 250 mathematicians for his age in the UK) would be indebted to over £40,000 if he tries to follow a similar path to his brother. The top universtites (The Russell group) encompass far more than Oxbridge and will always be the aim for top students and means he will not only pay back his student loans and other debts, but will also pay back more income tax. But if bluefish had his way even a second rate university could be out of the question.
Just out of curiosty how much was your tuition fees for you and your brothers degrees?

I left with just under £20,000 of debt that I had to pay off in 5 years after graduation. I can't remember how much they were.
The fees I am paying now is £450 per module for another course I have signed up to. In addition it is costing us about £1000 every 2-3 months to help the eldest even though she gets all the loans available.
Is it fair? I am glad it is not the American way as this is a lot cheaper and available to all rather than just the minority. It isn't the best system, but then again it is not the worst either.
Once your son gets his education and being in the top 250 in the country then he will eligible to undertake work on a pay that is commensurate with being within the top 250 of his field where £40,00 is not that much in a lifetime of working in his chosen sphere of work.
Dave_Notts
It rather depends on the sphere he chooses..he may want to teach,not the best paid may as a mathematician wish to remain in academia as a researcher or lecturer,again not the most highly paid ,000 pounds of debt may mean he cannot afford to choose these fields this may impoverish the world greatly.....imagine if Stephen Hawking had been forced by debt to go into banking
Imagine all the hard working thickos who are forced into debt by crippling taxes so that some smartarse can freeload their way through college...
Or imagine if the next doctor you need to see had been forced into private practice to pay of their debt..or the research scientist who may find the cure for your future cancer..it's one thing to be short sighted and another entirely to refuse to look
Staggerlee_BB
Sex God
Quote by Dave__Notts

It rather depends on the sphere he chooses..he may want to teach,not the best paid may as a mathematician wish to remain in academia as a researcher or lecturer,again not the most highly paid ,000 pounds of debt may mean he cannot afford to choose these fields this may impoverish the world greatly.....imagine if Stephen Hawking had been forced by debt to go into banking

With his brain he would be minted with bonuses
Dave_Notts
He probably would but at what cost to the rest of the world....the ability to explain difficult things in an understandable manner is a rare gift
Dave__Notts
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Or imagine if the next doctor you need to see had been forced into private practice to pay of their debt..or the research scientist who may find the cure for your future cancer..it's one thing to be short sighted and another entirely to refuse to look

Med school is always over subscribed and the shortage of Doctors is down to ther matters and not university fees surely?
Dave_Notts